HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[therealfolkblues]

Ok, I'll take a swing at this, being an actual fan of Robotech first...I saw Battle of the Planets when I was 5 years old and loved it. Was a HUGE Transformers fan, when my cousin turned me on to Robotech, which I still love to this day. You can be snarky and talk about Nostalgia, but I like it for all the same reason I still love G1 Transformers(and no it isn't cause my life peaked at 10yrs old;)). It is a nice place to visit(Robotech), but unfortunately, some people want to stay well past when the eviction notice has been sent and the building condemned . I went on to enjoy lots of Anime thanks to Robotech, and while people want to downplay its' importance to anime fandom cause they hate HG(believe, I think they are pathetic and hate they they have choked off any chance at Macross in the US), it caused me to search out other anime, and I have Robotech to thank for that. I just don't understand the point of all of this? NOTHING is ever gonna change the way HG does things and while it is fun to poke at them, and get whatever minuscule fan base they have left riled up, what is the end result? Are they gonna suddenly stop being douchebags and beg and plead to work with Big West and we get the Macross we all want? Guess what, even if they did that, they would still try to screw it up and we would all be back here bitching because they made Nekki Basara Nekki "Hunter" or some stupid crap. They don't care about Robotech, so we should put the same effort in to all of this that they do....back to lurking.

[VF5SS]

hey gubaba do you check this thread more than PMs

ne Gubaba?

[Einherjar]

And the Robotech calendar isn't even worth it to buy since they're just reusing Tommy Yune's old artworks. The fans are better off buying a normal calendar.

I've seen 4/12 of the months. Two are Tommy Yune's work, old or new, from Shadow Chronicles and maybe Love and War, and the other two are old pics from Macross, the SDF-1 hovering in Earth's atmosphere, and Southern Cross, an old promotional picture of a Battaloid Spartas and Zor, not done by anyone in HG. I'm guessing the other eight are a combination of old Tommy Yune work and legal 25 year old source material work considered "new" depending on how much people cared about the OSM in the first place and how much secondary material people bought besides the original 85.

One addition noted on Robotech World is the inclusion of birthdays for the cast and crew. You won't find that in a normal calendar.

ROBOTECH 2012 Wall Calendar

Edited December 24, 2011 by Einherjar

[mrhillz]

ROBOTECH: We Will Win - Limited Edition EP

Like I said, does the world really need that much We Will Win?

You know, I actually thought that was a joke. A horrible horrible joke. Why don't they do that on Robotech episodes too, just to troll the fanbase even more?

Edited December 24, 2011 by mrhillz

[Reïvaj]

ROBOTECH: We Will Win - Limited Edition EP

Like I said, does the world really need that much We Will Win?

Wow, they even say "this compact disc EP contains a selection of rare new musical tracks, some never before released"! Do you think they lie?

[mrhillz]

I was just thinking, why doesn't Kevin do a survey on the site to see what type of content that people would want to see, take constructive criticism and change the site from the feedback?

[Crossboy]

Why don't they do that on Robotech episodes too, just to troll the fanbase even more?

Harmony Gold staff: "Great idea!" and next year...

Robotech TV Pilot - Gold Edition

7 DVD-Box:

Episode 1 - 1985 original

Episode 1 - Remastered

1-hour Episode 1 (mix of 1-3 Episodes)

Episode 1 - Radio Version

Episode 1 - instrumental

Episode 1 - Karaoke

Episode 1 - Tatsunoko's japanese 'creators' homage for 'visionary producer' (SDF Macross Episode 1 Remastered)

Episode 1 - Black and white version

Price: $99.99

Good business for next 85 years.

[Reïvaj]

:lol:

[scannerfish]

Harmony Gold staff: "Great idea!" and next year...

Robotech TV Pilot - Gold Edition

7 DVD-Box:

Episode 1 - 1985 original

Episode 1 - Remastered

1-hour Episode 1 (mix of 1-3 Episodes)

Episode 1 - Radio Version

Episode 1 - instrumental

Episode 1 - Karaoke

Episode 1 - Tatsunoko's japanese 'creators' homage for 'visionary producer' (SDF Macross Episode 1 Remastered)

Episode 1 - Black and white version

Price: $99.99

Good business for next 85 years.

To be honest a 1950's style remake of the first episode of SDF:Macross would be pretty awesome.

[Keith]

Ok, I'll take a swing at this, being an actual fan of Robotech first...I saw Battle of the Planets when I was 5 years old and loved it. Was a HUGE Transformers fan, when my cousin turned me on to Robotech, which I still love to this day. You can be snarky and talk about Nostalgia, but I like it for all the same reason I still love G1 Transformers(and no it isn't cause my life peaked at 10yrs old;)). It is a nice place to visit(Robotech), but unfortunately, some people want to stay well past when the eviction notice has been sent and the building condemned . I went on to enjoy lots of Anime thanks to Robotech, and while people want to downplay its' importance to anime fandom cause they hate HG(believe, I think they are pathetic and hate they they have choked off any chance at Macross in the US), it caused me to search out other anime, and I have Robotech to thank for that. I just don't understand the point of all of this? NOTHING is ever gonna change the way HG does things and while it is fun to poke at them, and get whatever minuscule fan base they have left riled up, what is the end result? Are they gonna suddenly stop being douchebags and beg and plead to work with Big West and we get the Macross we all want? Guess what, even if they did that, they would still try to screw it up and we would all be back here bitching because they made Nekki Basara Nekki "Hunter" or some stupid crap. They don't care about Robotech, so we should put the same effort in to all of this that they do....back to lurking.

Except that you acknowledge that you'd seen Gatchaman first

[Keith]

You should have seen Yune at Anime Weekend Atlanta last September. At closing ceremonies he joked to the audience how lucky they were to have so many female fans attend cons because "back in his day" the only girl he ever saw at conventions was... his own sister.

Wait a minute, he has a sister and hasn't prominantly cast her as Minmay or something in Robotech? Shock and awe!

[Jasonc]

Except that you acknowledge that you'd seen Gatchaman first

Which brings up the old debate about whether or not Robotech was simply just a supplement to something already in motion, which is what I think was what was occurring. I don't think for a moment that Robotech started an era of anime in America. If you look at the motion of anime in America prior to Robotech, it already was a ball in motion, and rolling fast. There was Battle of the Planets, then some time, then BAM! Transformers, Voltron, and then Robotech. I think the natural course was an upsurge of anime in America, and while I do acknowledge Robotech had supplemented it, it by no means started it, and caused it. That (again) goes back to a bunch of nostalgic fanboys, less educated "officionados", as well as corporate wannabes trying to paint a fake rosie picture for Robotech's past, that it was the start of this great movement. People can try to debate that, but it simply wasn't the case.

Wait a minute, he has a sister and hasn't prominantly cast her as Minmay or something in Robotech? Shock and awe!

If he does, he only mentions her at the brunt end of a joke. Must be sad to only be mentioned in that light. If he doesn't, then I assume he really only means his brother Steve Yun/Yune, which I think he's only mentioned maybe once, and not in public that they are indeed related.

[therealfolkblues]

To be fair, Transformers wasn't anime...just sayin...Also, while I enjoyed BOTP as well as Voltron, Robotech made me realize that most of the cool animated stuff came from Japan. Do I still think that Robotech is this great masterpiece? Of course not, and it is ridiculous for anyone to think that anybody would care about any future Robotech projects without something that resembles Macross. Personally, I feel that HG missed the boat on Astro Plan. Say what you want, but it is EONS better than anything that HG could come up with. I am honestly surprised that they haven't tried to get the rights to it as it would for sure be much easier than re-purposing LLA. I wonder if they are scared of legal repercussions from Big West? I am just a hill-jack from the middle of nowhere, not an "insider" like some of you guys, so maybe someone else will know. I know no one on here wants to give Robotech any credit, but it definitely helped foster along my interest in what I called "japanamation" (literally what the anime section at my Suncoast used to be called) at the time. Along that line, it is any companies job to promote themselves(even at the expense of truth) so why wouldn't HG trumpet the small success that Robotech was. I mean, what else have they accomplished as an "entertainment" company?

[Jasonc]

While I totally understand that it brought quite a few into the world of anime on a personal level, The idea that it spawned this great hunger for anime in the U.S. just isn't true. The amount of anime that was coming to the U.S. was already a realization for many companies, and the movement of people getting bootlegs of some shows was already in the works. While Transformers isn't necessarily anime, it takes a lot of the ideas that were coming from anime, and utilized them to help further the realization that anime as a whole, was a viable venue for children slots. The anime shows were already done animation-wise. All they needed was to come up with a story that would "fit" American audience, dub, and add the sound effects, and to buy licenses for anime titles back then were very inexpensive, as opposed to nowadays.

As for giving Robotech credit, it does deserve some credit. It was very supplemental, to getting a lot of people in the voice over industry their position they are in now. It also had a great story, albeit mostly just reworked from the originals, but it made the 3 separate series work together. For many others that I know personally, that strong story helped guide great careers, and like I said, did help keep the momentum of anime shows coming into the U.S.

[scannerfish]

Transformers is a good example of how to do a collaboration that leaves everyone happy. Hasbro didn't care about Beast Wars Neo as long as they had access to the mechanical designs for example.

[VF5SS]

It also had a great story, albeit mostly just reworked from the originals, but it made the 3 separate series work together.

Only to the ignorant it did.

[Einherjar]

But will that "great story" from 25 years ago have an ending within our lifetimes that the current showrunners will take seriously for a change? I was led to believe that it isn't over yet despite secondary material saying otherwise, but now lumped together in the "just kidding" pile.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Einherjar

[Beltane70]

I went on to enjoy lots of Anime thanks to Robotech, and while people want to downplay its' importance to anime fandom cause they hate HG

I don't downplay its importance because I hate HG, I downplay its importance because of the number of anime shows that were aired in the US before it, that I find more important to anime's growing fandom. People that I grew up with remember Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets, and Voltron, but don't remember Robotech at all.

[Keith]

Not to mention anime that was broadcast after it that was infinately more popular. I'm looking at you DBZ! Even Sailor Moon was a heap more popular than Robotech. The fact that Voltron has an active fanbase-ish right now also proves its much more popular.

[TehPW]

I don't downplay its importance because I hate HG, I downplay its importance because of the number of anime shows that were aired in the US before it, that I find more important to anime's growing fandom. People that I grew up with remember Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets, and Voltron, but don't remember Robotech at all.

actually you have to thank HG, 20th Century Imports, Revel Models and FASA for helping anime's growth in the US (depending on where in the US you seen 'products/productions' from any of those IPs. Growing up in Cleveland, i saw Star Blazers and G-Force (two TV serials that came to light due to inspiration from Star Wars) as a youngster, seen (and consumed like a retard on crack) the 1/200-scale Pitaban Macross models at the Toys-R-Us in Great Northern (when it was still in the strip mall), and was given as a gift a tiny transforming SDF-1 toy by a friend. Then i saw Episode 5.... well there is another thread of this topic....

point being, the above companies, hook & crook, started the fire that slowly grew into the anime craze of the 90's. Who did what exactly what depends where you were in 1985... or, as Beltane comments, IF it aired on Local stations where you lived in 1985-86...

Edited December 25, 2011 by pensives_wetness

[Legioss]

Anime got popular because in the 80s, there wasn't an anime section in rental stores or a World Wide Web. In the 90s, people had greater access to home video, cable TV, and information. I think mostly it was the increase in popularity of the VCR. The entire home video market got bigger, not just anime.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Legioss

[Einherjar]

Does whatever legacy Robotech and HG created years ago change the feelings about what both are doing in the present? I ask because, honestly, the glory days were 25+ years ago. Here we are with the big things happening with the franchise being another re-release of the original TV series, a new project potentially using the same storytelling methods that were once acceptable back in the 80s, and a Hollywood movie and continuation of the current storyline both of which are crapshoots at this point.

[Jasonc]

All this pretty much shows that Robotech was just a link in a chain of events that led anime to its popularity. While an important link, it's still just a link in a chain of events. As Keith also mentioned, the anime craze really started to snowball when DBZ, and Sailor Moon made their way out here. The ball really started to roll before Robotech with Star Blazers, Voltron, and anime-like shows such as Transformers. Robotech. If I had to rate it in car driving gears, Robotech brought anime from 3rd to fourth gear, and DBZ kicked it into the highway 5th gear. Robotech deserves some credit, but to claim anymore than that for its importance in the western acceptance of anime is a stretch to me. Nostalgia doesn't gain it anymore credence as well.

[scannerfish]

without a doubt though the internet helped to proliferate fansubbing. Usenet in the early 90s and the IRC chatrooms old was a source for untold amounts of collabs.

[Beltane70]

Growing up in Cleveland, i saw Star Blazers and G-Force (two TV serials that came to light due to inspiration from Star Wars) as a youngster,

Interesting enough, both shows actually pre-date Star Wars, although you could argue that they were shown in the US because of Star Wars.

What I've found funny is how important HG thinks itself is. Enough that I actually got banned from robotech.com for listing anime shows that came before it and downplaying its importance.

[Einherjar]

All this pretty much shows that Robotech was just a link in a chain of events that led anime to its popularity. While an important link, it's still just a link in a chain of events. As Keith also mentioned, the anime craze really started to snowball when DBZ, and Sailor Moon made their way out here. The ball really started to roll before Robotech with Star Blazers, Voltron, and anime-like shows such as Transformers. Robotech. If I had to rate it in car driving gears, Robotech brought anime from 3rd to fourth gear, and DBZ kicked it into the highway 5th gear. Robotech deserves some credit, but to claim anymore than that for its importance in the western acceptance of anime is a stretch to me. Nostalgia doesn't gain it anymore credence as well.

Maybe much of it was contrived for promotional and advertising purposes, these days especially *wink* *wink*, to make the franchise look and sound better retrospectively. a.k.a. Showrunners screwing with audience/consumers' perspective and people actually believing it repeatedly.

[VF5SS]

I think in the end Robotech just made anime seem important because nerds liked it and it made them feel better for watching a children's cartoon.

Turns out you need more than that to make an impact.

[azrael]

Robotech was pretty much on the tail end of the 80s anime. Harlock was on in '85 but I can't even recall seeing that. Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs (Sei Jushi Bismarck) came in and out in 1987, closing out the 80s. After which theere wasn't a ton of imports (Ronin Warriors (Yoroiden Samurai Troopers) came in and out in '92 but nothing really followed it) till we got to 1995 with Teknoman (Tekkaman Blade), Dragonball Z, and Sailor Moon. Noteably, the latter 2. So any idea of an anime boom doesn't seem to fit after RT. I don't recall show after show, year after year of anime coming on TV. Minus the shows that did come on, there's a 10-year gap between RT and any significant anime. So I don't see RT making as big an impact as some may say.

[Keith]

Oh, Pokemon & Power Rangers too. OMFG Pokemon & Power Rangers were merch power houses that caused a huge licensing scramble for anything Japanese that could have the same impact.

[scannerfish]

And on the mecha end that can be connected to Gundam Wing in 99/2000. I guess subtly transformers has always done that in the US, but I think when CN dropped GW, a couple of other stations scrambled to get a mecha show out asap.

And oh god all the Yaoi that spawned. GW Yaoi still made by the bucketload both in Japan and the U.S.

[Old_Nash]

Happy Xmas for everyone here

(I know, I'm late...)

[BeyondTheGrave]

Apparently RT has wholesome values.

On the other hand, both Starship Troopers and Robotech had wholesome American values and insipid idol singers weren't the focus, unlike Macross.

Link

[Reïvaj]

And on the mecha end that can be connected to Gundam Wing in 99/2000. I guess subtly transformers has always done that in the US, but I think when CN dropped GW, a couple of other stations scrambled to get a mecha show out asap.

And oh god all the Yaoi that spawned. GW Yaoi still made by the bucketload both in Japan and the U.S.

What about Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Apparently RT has wholesome values.

Sure.

[scannerfish]

What about Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Sure.

Syndication my friend, syndication. Evangelion had the hardcore weeaboo population covered, but for the general public? That was Gundam Wing.

Edited December 25, 2011 by scannerfish

[VF5SS]

Wow so Robotech fans not only misunderstand Japanese sci-fi, but also the most important book that inspired all that Japanese sci-fi.

( ' w ' )b