HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[Einherjar]

I've seen a lot of stuff end up in The Dollar Store, that's all.

[chrisk]

Even my insurance company issues out calendars like its no big deal. It's called customer service.

Why does a calendar have to be one of their big announcements? Shouldn't this be something they issue every year? And why the hell are they still using Tommy's stiff 10 year-old art? What the hell does Tommy Yune do 365 days in a year?

I'm sad and pissed at how lame this f****** franchise turned out to be. What a disappointment! THANK GOD FOR MACROSS!!!!

Edited November 15, 2011 by chrisk

[Darkwater]

I'm sad and pissed at how lame this f****** franchise turned out to be. What a disappointment! THANK GOD FOR MACROSS!!!!

Don't you see? Jasonc actually hypnotized Tommy and forced him created the calendar in order to piss of Robotech fans and convert them Macross and you're the proof.

I don't think I'll ever get tired of this.

[chrisk]

Seriously, how can you NOT be snarky with companies like Harmony Gold and the lunatic fringe fanbase? Herobot mentioned they're "staffing up" as well? Have they finally hired back MEMO as the office security guard?

Edited November 15, 2011 by chrisk

[Jasonc]

Don't you see? Jasonc actually hypnotized Tommy and forced him created the calendar in order to piss of Robotech fans and convert them Macross and you're the proof.

I don't think I'll ever get tired of this.

They definitely hate Darkwater, Tom, and I at HG. Apparently, they're looking for more people to volunteer to be Robotech moderators. One of my friends, who was loyal to the franchise and was a moderator, told them that he'd be a moderator again, but he was demoted simply for knowing Darkwater, Tom, and I. Immediately following that, he was banned. They attack people who actually support(ed) the franchise now, and it has an interesting ring to the whole thing. We are turning all Robotech fans into Macross fans, as well as making pigs grow buffalo wings, and fly. We also do it, while sippin' on Dom P.

Seriously, how can you NOT be snarky with companies like Harmony Gold and the lunatic fringe fanbase? Herobot mentioned they're "staffing up" as well? Have they finally hired back MEMO as the office security guard?

I think when that herobot guy says something, it only relates to China. Just throw in "in China" for his news, and you get the idea.

[chrisk]

They definitely hate Darkwater, Tom, and I at HG. Apparently, they're looking for more people to volunteer to be Robotech moderators. One of my friends, who was loyal to the franchise and was a moderator, told them that he'd be a moderator again, but he was demoted simply for knowing Darkwater, Tom, and I. Immediately following that, he was banned.

Gosh. You'll still get invites to the Robotech LAM premiere when it comes, right?

[Jasonc]

Gosh. You'll still get invites to the Robotech LAM premiere when it comes, right?

I still get all the info, not the invites.

[chrisk]

Have you ever seen the Harmony Gold offices? What goes on in there?

[Jasonc]

I still get all the info, not the invites.

Wouldn't know. I've never been in there, only the theater. As for what they do in there, obviously not much.

[Legioss]

Have you ever seen the Harmony Gold offices? What goes on in there?

This has been my theory for at least the last few years:

[JELEINEN]

From a marketing standpoint, no one is going to buy a single $50-90 DVD/Blu-ray in North America. And at 3-4 episodes/disc or even a 2-hour movie, that won't even make it out the door. Bandai Entertainment did that once and it flopped.

It's actually becoming a more common practice. I guess the idea is the few extra sales it generates is worth the minor cost of adding an extra subtitle track or two and choosing to use region 0 isntead of 2.

[Jasonc]

It's actually becoming a more common practice. I guess the idea is the few extra sales it generates is worth the minor cost of adding an extra subtitle track or two and choosing to use region 0 isntead of 2.

With Blu-ray, you don't need to worry about region coding. As for the DVDs, the $70-$90 price range is high, but I've seen that for the Frontier Blu-rays, not for the DVDs. I don't know any company manufacturing the region 0 DVDs, but if they are becoming available, I'd like to know what company is doing that. So far, all I've known of region zero is what fansubbers and personal movie makers use.

[JELEINEN]

With Blu-ray, you don't need to worry about region coding. As for the DVDs, the $70-$90 price range is high, but I've seen that for the Frontier Blu-rays, not for the DVDs. I don't know any company manufacturing the region 0 DVDs, but if they are becoming available, I'd like to know what company is doing that. So far, all I've known of region zero is what fansubbers and personal movie makers use.

Ah, I wasn't aware that BD didn't have region encoding. I haven't adopted the format myself and really don't have plans to.

[azrael]

Ah, I wasn't aware that BD didn't have region encoding. I haven't adopted the format myself and really don't have plans to.

Blu-ray does have region coding. But the regions are split into 3 groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Region_codes

US and Japan share the same region coding. My comment were regards to people buying import DVDs/Blu-rays with subs. The local price of Gundam Unicorn Blu-rays are already $50-60. Come with subs and dubs. The MSRP of a Frontier Blu-ray is 7350 Yen (or ~96.00 USD). Like I said, no one is going to be buying at that price. And that's without subs or dubs.

[Jasonc]

Blu-ray does have region coding. But the regions are split into 3 groups.

http://en.wikipedia....sc#Region_codes

US and Japan share the same region coding. My comment were regards to people buying import DVDs/Blu-rays with subs. The local price of Gundam Unicorn Blu-rays are already $50-60. Come with subs and dubs. The MSRP of a Frontier Blu-ray is 7350 Yen (or ~96.00 USD). Like I said, no one is going to be buying at that price. And that's without subs or dubs.

I wasn't aware of the region coding for BR. Probably because of the fact that I don't buy anything outside of the U.S. and/or Japan. Well, in this subject of Macross, BR region shouldn't mean much then.

[JELEINEN]

Blu-ray does have region coding. But the regions are split into 3 groups.

http://en.wikipedia....sc#Region_codes

US and Japan share the same region coding. My comment were regards to people buying import DVDs/Blu-rays with subs. The local price of Gundam Unicorn Blu-rays are already $50-60. Come with subs and dubs. The MSRP of a Frontier Blu-ray is 7350 Yen (or ~96.00 USD). Like I said, no one is going to be buying at that price. And that's without subs or dubs.

I have no data at all on how well say Tiger and Bunny Blu-rays are selling due to having an English sub track (those are about the same price). It seems to me though that they probably wouldn't have bothered to include it if they didn't think they could make money off of it. Then there's always the Kara no Kyoukai route of just releasing a big, expensive boxed set. They apparently didn't have any problems selling out of those.

[Einherjar]

To me, what's important is that the distribution business is changing to the point where certain important areas could be taken over by other, well established companies. There could be less of a need for a middleman to release anime overseas when the companies that originally had a hand in it are completely capable of doing it themselves. There's also less of a chance for companies like a certain one to go overboard and have enough legal influence to do more than they really should be able to do to maintain a monopoly.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Einherjar

[Zor Primus]

It sucks that I cant share Macross Frontier with my niece and nephew.

My godson loves to see Valks in action he was even emulating transforming from fighter to batteroid with a ETA-2 transformer I got him while watching a VF-25 vid on youtube.

My niece literally knows the words to "What about my star"...they are too young to read so it would rock if I can get a dubbed version for them to get into...

HG, ruining another generation of kids, one child at a time...

[JELEINEN]

To me, what's important is that the distribution business is changing to the point where certain important areas could be taken over by other, well established companies. There could be less of a need for a middleman to release anime overseas when the companies that originally had a hand in it are completely capable of doing it themselves. There's also less of a chance for companies like a certain one to go overboard and have enough legal influence to do more than they really should be able to do to maintain a monopoly.

Honestly, outside of cases like the Macross franchise where foreign friendly domestic releases are a good compromise for something impossible to license, I'm not sold on using it for anime in general. First, is the pricing, as Azrael mentions. The Japanese seem dead set on changing the world to their idiotic media prices rather than adapting to the local market. Secondly is that the localization ends up getting handled by some middle management pencil pusher rather than a professional (interesting blog post on the subject here: http://schoolgirlmilkycrisis.com/blog/?p=175).

[Jasonc]

That article brings up some interesting subjects. Macross is one of those animes that has been put in a very peculiar sect of animes that is set to go worldwide, but just has legal baggage holding it down (cough cough, Harmony Gold). Being that it is currently distributed through Bandai, finding a company to put it out here isn't an issue. It really comes down to the ass of anime, HG, to liquidate, relinquish the holds it has, and/or simply just disappear.

For now, I think the first steps would be to simply add english subs on the Blu-Ray, which, from talks I've had with people directly involved, are very interested. Unfortunately, there's several companies involved, and that's where the red tape gets tangled. It's a toss up as to why they haven't gone that route yet, and HG wouldn't be able to do a thing about it, but no one knows the reason why it hasn't been done. Some hypothesize that it's because of the cost, but I don't think it's that, or just that. Who knows? We can try to analyze it all day, but we'll just never know unless someone ask the right people.

[Darkwater]

I've said before, I don't know the the entire details of who owns what and who wants what out of the properties, but I really, really hope that it's not because of a pissing match going on between both sides.

If a product doesn't get released because two companies disagree about who should get what, both get nothing in the meantime. That's an awfully big price to pay to keep your pride, while a little humility can compromise can payout in the long run.

[Keith]

I've said before, I don't know the the entire details of who owns what and who wants what out of the properties, but I really, really hope that it's not because of a pissing match going on between both sides.

If a product doesn't get released because two companies disagree about who should get what, both get nothing in the meantime. That's an awfully big price to pay to keep your pride, while a little humility can compromise can payout in the long run.

It's not a matter of pride or humility at this point, it's out & out franchise squatting. HG filed a fraudulent trademark on "Macross, end of story. There's absolutely no reason Big West should ever compromise with them.

[Einherjar]

It's not a matter of pride or humility at this point, it's out & out franchise squatting. HG filed a fraudulent trademark on "Macross, end of story. There's absolutely no reason Big West should ever compromise with them.

Wouldn't the recent success of Macross prove that they really don't need Harmony Gold's help for anything either? On the other side, wouldn't Robotech's current status prove how desperate HG is, by comparison, for anyone to take them seriously?

[Darkwater]

It's not a matter of pride or humility at this point, it's out & out franchise squatting. HG filed a fraudulent trademark on "Macross, end of story. There's absolutely no reason Big West should ever compromise with them.

But going back to what I was saying, and I'm not trolling here, even if HG were were the vile, underhanded company in existence, and lets assume that they are franchise-squatting, then you would be right in the fact the ethically, there should be no reason for compromise.

However, hanging onto those ethics, and not coming to an agreement, means that millions of potential dollars are lost in the meantime. At some point you have to ask yourself, "is it worth losing money because its the right thing to do?"

Edited November 18, 2011 by Darkwater

[Gubaba]

But going back to what I was saying, and I'm not trolling here, even if HG were were the vile, underhanded company in existence, and lets assume that they are franchise-squatting, then you would be right in the fact the ethically, there should be no reason for compromise.

However, hanging onto those ethics, and not coming to an agreement, means that millions of potential dollars are lost in the meantime. At some point you have to ask yourself, "is it worth losing money because its the right thing to do?"

Well...the problem is that there are too many unknowns in the deal. We know that HG approached BW, and we also know that no deal was struck. Without knowing what the terms proposed were, we don't know if HG was being generous or not, or if BW was being petty or sensible.

[Einherjar]

But going back to what I was saying, and I'm not trolling here, even if HG were were the vile, underhanded company in existence, and lets assume that they are franchise-squatting, then you would be right in the fact the ethically, there should be no reason for compromise.

However, hanging onto those ethics, and not coming to an agreement, means that millions of potential dollars are lost in the meantime. At some point you have to ask yourself, "is it worth losing money because its the right thing to do?"

I think you missed a very important characteristic with HG - they're poor. What good is a compromise when HG can't do a damn thing with said characteristics, or at least something that's worthwhile and professional by themselves? Besides, a lot of the real work of such a compromise would be done by other organizations, just like all the Robotech DVDs and Shadow Chronicles.

[Darkwater]

Well...the problem is that there are too many unknowns in the deal. We know that HG approached BW, and we also know that no deal was struck. Without knowing what the terms proposed were, we don't know if HG was being generous or not, or if BW was being petty or sensible.

That's a good point. For all we know, HG could have said "Let's distribute Macross internationally and give us only 1% of the profits!" or on the other hand, they could have said "Let's distribute Macross internationally, but give us 99% of the profits!" From now on, HG should live-blog all negotiations imho.

I think you missed a very important characteristic with HG - they're poor. What good is a compromise when HG can't do a damn thing with said characteristics, or at least something that's worthwhile and professional by themselves?

I think you're underestimating HG in that sense, because although their negotiation tactics have been criticized in the past, they do have some money along with some negotiation power. (owning titles like Shaka Zulu and Around the World in 80 Days helps) They also have a pretty big team of lawyers from what I've heard.

Besides, a lot of the real work of such a compromise would be done by other organizations, just like all the Robotech DVDs and Shadow Chronicles.

That would depend on any sort of deal they could work out with BW. If they said "Give us the rights, and we'll work out the deals with the distributors internationally, and give you cut," then it would be all in HG's hands. If BW were to say " Okay, HG, negotiate, but we have to have final approval with each distributor," then things could get messy and possibly not worth the distributor's time and resources.

Distribution would only scratch the surface, because you'd have to take into account potential costs of dubbing and or/ subbing, but I keep thinking that there has to be some compromise available to both parties. There's money to be made, and that amount becomes less and less as time goes on and the product becomes older.

[EXO]

Like I've pointed out countless times before. HG Can't do anything for anyone even when given the chance. Just remember the Beagle and Megahouse Mospeada Cyclones. Out of the three companies that offered Ride Armors those are the two that failed and those are the only two that HG distributed for. Only CMs finished their run and even came out with limited bonus figures without HG's help.

How much were the original release of Animego's Macross again? Great Job HG, you really made those domestic prices drop. Thanks!

[Einherjar]

I think you're underestimating HG in that sense, because although their negotiation tactics have been criticized in the past, they do have some money along with some negotiation power. (owning titles like Shaka Zulu and Around the World in 80 Days helps) They also have a pretty big team of lawyers from what I've heard.

So what have they been doing in recent years with that money and influence? Their website hasn't been updated since 2009 and the most you hear from them is when employees do convention rounds, another Robotech DVD set is released, or when some legal dispute regarding material in Macross pops up (Battletech). I'd imagine it's really hard for normal people to see what the company does exactly these days beyond news like this. Also, I assumed that they invested money rather than had an active role in the production of stuff like Shaka Zulu. Robotech, and maybe Macross if they ever got the chance, would be a totally different beast for their business. And as stuff like The Sentinels showed, money isn't enough to solve the persistent problems Robotech keeps finding itself in.

And yes, their legal team is very effective, probably more so than the people supposed to be running a certain franchise. Yet like money, it hasn't helped the company or Robotech either.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

One thing HG has IS money. They aren't poor. If you ask what they've been doing all this time, not much. That could be decision of Frank Agrama's to that extent.

I got this link from one of my buddies who was recently banned on rt.com with the screenname McHenry. http://www.robotech...._source=message read towards the bottom. It's in regards to people asking for more people to mod the website.

McHenry said:

I used to be a MOD, and I was one of the more active one on the site too but one day my MOD powers were taken away. The reason I was given was that Steve wanted to give other people a chance to be a MOD. Which was a silly answer because the MODS that are around today are the same MODS when I was one. I honestly beleive it was because I was friends with people like JasonC, Darkwater55 and Reflexpoint. Guilty by assocation I guess

To which Steve Yun replies:

No, it was because you were abusing your mod privileges to cover up your association with the pie incident.

You also allowed other (banned) people to use your account.

I did the courtesy of not embarrassing you in public over this, but if you're going to write garbage and lies like that, then I'm not going to extend you that courtesy any more.

As I am privy to both actions, and since a lot of rt.com people read here too, I might as well set the record straight, since Steve doesn't have the balls, or simply the logic to stay out of a conversation he can't win.

The pie incident is a bunch of B.S. Some guy, along with a number of other people, myself included stayed at McHenry's house during Anime Expo in Long Beach. One of the guys who stayed there, was the guy who pied Tommy. He didn't mention or plan with anyone that he was going to do it, only stayed at McHenry's house. The next day, as everyone exchanged phone numbers, we left on our way to the convention. About an hour later, this guy calls us, and says that he's going to pie Tommy, and asks if he should do it. I tell him that there's going to be backlash from it, and it was not suggested. Nevertheless, it happened, and the day after, this sort of manifesto gets put on the internet, over-hyping the incident, claiming that everyone at McHenry's house was involved. That all was explained to Steve, and to Tommy, so that's B.S. story no.1 from him.

The claim that he let other people use his account is another B.S. story. McHenry used to visit my house with his computer, as well as several other friends over the time that he got demoted. So, in effect, it IS due to the fact that he was friends with Darkwater, Tom, and I. So, clearly that makes the one trying to call him a liar, the liar. Can someone say, "paranoid?" Anyways, Steve banned him right after. Now, that's being a little biatch.

I wonder how much this is going to bother them? It should, since craploads of people read this thread, and have over the years, began to take notice of their stories not adding up. Doesn't effect me in anyway. Just found it interesting.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Jasonc

[Darkwater]

So what have they been doing in recent years with that money and influence? Their website hasn't been updated since 2009 and the most you hear from them is when employees do convention rounds, another Robotech DVD set is released, or when some legal dispute regarding material in Macross pops up (Battletech). I'd imagine it's really hard for normal people to see what the company does exactly these days beyond news like this. Also, I assumed that they invested money rather than had an active role in the production of stuff like Shaka Zulu. Robotech, and maybe Macross if they ever got the chance, would be a totally different beast for their business. And as stuff like The Sentinels showed, money isn't enough to solve the persistent problems Robotech keeps finding itself in.

And yes, their legal team is very effective, probably more so than the people supposed to be running a certain franchise. Yet like money, it hasn't helped the company or Robotech either.

Yes, their website is horrible and embarrassing. Yes, the Sentinels was horrible. But I can guarantee you that if they had the option to make money from Macross, they would jump on the chance to no end. After all, it's money, the only thing that HG cares about. But, like Gubaba said, we have no idea if they're being stingy or if BW is.

I wonder how much this is going to bother them? It should, since craploads of people read this thread, and have over the years, began to take notice of their stories not adding up. Doesn't effect me in anyway. Just found it interesting.

The funny thing is, McHenry was the one who explained to MedMapGuy that he was banned from RT.com for pie incident (for the drama, you can read it here http://rdfhqcommunicationscenter.yuku.com/topic/470#.TsYC3bJnCEU).

I've got to say, though, Steve comes across as a real professional in that post, not showing any personal feelings that affect him getting under his skin.

[taksraven]

Just out of interest. Has purchasing lots of crap from the Robotech.com store ever protected anybody from being banned from the forums?

[UN Spacy]

I'd like to know as well.

The only item I've ever purchased from the Robotech website was the Animeigo box set for $40.

[Jasonc]

The funny thing is, McHenry was the one who explained to MedMapGuy that he was banned from RT.com for pie incident (for the drama, you can read it here http://rdfhqcommunic...70#.TsYC3bJnCEU).

I've got to say, though, Steve comes across as a real professional in that post, not showing any personal feelings that affect him getting under his skin.

I remember that. I think he got banned for suggesting that someone pie Tommy. It wasn't even a serious request or proposal, but when it was done, Steve and Tommy got bent outta shape, and just added him to it, even though he had nothing to do with it.

[Darkwater]

I remember that. I think he got banned for suggesting that someone pie Tommy. It wasn't even a serious request or proposal, but when it was done, Steve and Tommy got bent outta shape, and just added him to it, even though he had nothing to do with it.

Pretty much that. It was a joking thread that said something like "let's give Tommy a pie to the face!" and afterwards, it was like "Holy sh*t, we were joking!"

Now, apparently, it was a conspiracy amongst Robotech mods to have it done.