Spiral War Redesign Thread

[Knight26]

Going through another major redesign kick of the ships in my Spiral War book universe while I am rewriting the book. FIrst up in the venerable Splicer-1000 Dagger light fighter/trainer. Here is the progress so far and for comparison the old version. I will retain certain key parts and elements off of the last version but will be making other significant changes to better reflect the tech level and to make texturing easier.

First the Old version:

Now the new girl:

Showing off her awesome engines:

Baby has gotten a little thicker up front, but looks sleeker IMHO:

Show 'em your brakes honey:

Edited October 21, 2011 by Knight26

[one_klump]

Cool ship. I have to admit though, i was expecting a little different when I saw the title. Something with a little more Gurren Lagann in it.

[Knight26]

major update nearly all the main salient features are in place, including all the maneuvering thrusters, advanced magnetic relativistic ion projector, very efficient and high thrust, but not designed for prolonged use. The last major feature to add are the internal missile launchers, loading doors and racks. Probably to the lower outer side of the engine nacelles. After that I will clean up the mesh, chop it up into top and bottom pieces then start the detailing process before going on to texturing.

[the white drew carey]

It looks a lot like one of the racers from Wipeout. But, if I had to give any advice, get rid of, or alter, the stabilizer. It just looks out of place with the rest of the aesthetic.

[Knight26]

Thanks to WDC's suggestion of redesigning or ditching the vertical tail entirely, I am thinking of going twin tail, I have mocked these up real quick with the old vertical, which do people like more, I am preferring the wider spaced set, though I may change the angle and general design of the tails a bit. The biggest issue I have with it the twin tail is it make the spine pretty bare I might play around with a new spine before I detail if I go this route.

[the white drew carey]

I'd go with the Senator Craig version (aka- wide stance). Much, much better.

[Duke Togo]

Gah, thought this was a Gurren Lagann topic!

[Knight26]

no, nothing so lame

[Wanzerfan]

Gah, thought this was a Gurren Lagann topic!

I myself thought that this was a Spiral Zone topic.

[Knight26]

Pretty much finished detailing the dorsal surface, will start on the ventral tomorrow, then will start on the textures. The grey bits are all that is salvaged from the old model.

[the white drew carey]

Looking better all of the time.

[Knight26]

Thanks TWDC, I think the twin tail idea will really work much better. The underside is coming along really quickly, partly because I am able to reuse a lot of the old model on it, the central fuselage and underside of the wings are, for the most part straight off the old model with very little modification needed. So hopefully I can have the detailing finished by thanksgiving, then basic texturing before the end of the month, minus any custom markings *crosses fingers*. The next fighter will be an almost total rebuild though, so that should take longer and be much more interesting.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Knight26

[Knight26]

Underside detailing is finished and I have the ventral texture render running as I type, should take a while. Anyway here are a bunch of pictures for you to take a look at, let me know what you think.

[Knight26]

baseline (no labels or detailed markings) top texture done, cadet colors, comments?

[Knight26]

Texturing is done with the exception of markings and warnings will get to those later, picture dump incoming:

Cadet Colors:

Combat Colors:

Flanker Inspired:

Bare Metal Look:

[Knight26]

Next up on the chopping block, the Splicer 2000 Cutter, Heavy Interceptor. First up the old version and what progress I have made so far.

[Knight26]

Well I said progress would be slower on this one. Still have a ways to go but the engine nacelles and missile jackets are coming along nicely. Though I think it looks a little too needle nosed right now, might just be the perspective.

[Knight26]

The new version still has a long, long way to go, need the central engine, weapons, canards, nose sensor, central intakes (RAM Scoops and later for a new drive system) Central reverse thrusters, may redo the nose, add the ventral, dorsal fins, and the outer wings. I am also considering an alternate configuration with the two larger main engines on the fuselage and then two smaller engine nacelles with the missile jackets outboard where the two large engines are now. It would make it look like a cross between the NATF-23 proposed config and the YF-27 from Macross Frontier.

[Knight26]

Progress:

[PetarB]

I like this new direction, looking good!

[Knight26]

More progress, I recontoured the nose and fuselage, and am working on the mounting points for the weapons. As well as adding on the fins, though I am not 100% on their design or positions.

[Knight26]

Mounted the guns, Plasma Lasers in the wing leading edges and mass drivers in conformal packs on the belly, plus the central engine intakes/thermal vents.

[Knight26]

Design and basic texturing completed, thoughts?

[Graham]

Not a criticism or anything, just genuinely curious and would like to ask what's the 'in universe' explanation for the following 2 points:

1) Why the lack of rear visibility on all your designs? Do the cockpits or pilots helmets have screens showing them a rear view, or is lack of rear visibility not an issue? I haven't read your book, so don't know if any within-visual-range dogfighting takes place. If it does, wouldn't the lack of rear visibility be a handicap?

2) Any reason why your designs feature canopy frames instead of one-piece bubble canopies? A personal aesthetic choice, or reasons of strength? On space fighters, I've always felta completely sealed cockpit, with a 360 degree virtual view is probably best.

Graham

[Knight26]

Not a criticism or anything, just genuinely curious and would like to ask what's the 'in universe' explanation for the following 2 points:

1) Why the lack of rear visibility on all your designs? Do the cockpits or pilots helmets have screens showing them a rear view, or is lack of rear visibility not an issue? I haven't read your book, so don't know if any within-visual-range dogfighting takes place. If it does, wouldn't the lack of rear visibility be a handicap?

2) Any reason why your designs feature canopy frames instead of one-piece bubble canopies? A personal aesthetic choice, or reasons of strength? On space fighters, I've always felta completely sealed cockpit, with a 360 degree virtual view is probably best.

Graham

Graham to answer your questions, good questions by the way. First off I did pull back the book for a full rewrite for very important reasons, but it is explained in the book.

1) As to the lack of rear visibility in most of the designs (some do have it, but they are slightly lower or much lower tech level), all of the cockpits are equipped with multiple redundant sensor systems. There is helmet mounted cuing systems, visual enhancement systems, and the walls of the cockpits are lined with a Sensor Imaging System (SIS) think similar to the VF-19 cockpit. Combine that with the other built in holographic systems and the canopy is actually a redudant system. There is actually a point in the book where the instructor blinds all the trainees sensors forcing them to back out of the more advanced systems and navigate their way home using eyes and the stars only. Jamming in the spiral war universe is a big factor so the ability to fight without sensor systems is a key requirement. Also combat ranges from BVR all the way up to danger close primarily because no one fights over deep space, they fight over assets, be they planets, asteroids, moons, space stations, jump points (which are relatively fixed) limting the effective sphere of combat especially once jamming is employed (no not minovsky particles, but sensor jammers that scramble the various sensor systems in use). Most combat amongst capital ships is done within 5 lightseconds, not quite visual range, but close enough with enhanced optics. Fighters tend to engage much closer as they also are used for precision attacks on targets, and out of atmosphere, and for defense against bombers, torpedos, etc... Basically the typically sci-fi cliche' of all space combat happenning way out in the middle of nowhere doesn't happen very much. Instead think more B5ish where most combat took place near a planetary body or right off a fixed jump point or deep space assett.

2) Not all of the designs are framed, most confed designs do feature framed canopies though, and for the most part that is for two reasons.

a) Personnal astethics, I just prefer them, must be the old school SW geek that still resides in me, though I am moving away from the strictly flat paneled canopies as those really began to look bad to me.

b) Bubble canopies are a pain to design in AutoCAD.

However that being said, Federation fighter almost all have bubble canopies and most also have better built in rear visibility, due to the fact that their sensor tech is behind the Confederations.

In confed fighter when all sensors are up and running the canopy actually blacks out and everything is projected on the interior of the canopy, SIS, helmet, as well as holographics around the pilot. The WSO on the other hand enters a full virtual environment via brain direct interface, but the interface has additction issues for most races so not everyone can use it.

Does that answer your questions effectively?

Surprised no one commented on the blue one's markings, though I admit the lighting kind of messed up seeing them.

[Knight26]

Ok update time, sorry but real life and well Mass Effect 3 slowed down progress. This is Splicer-3000 Marker fighter/bomber, basically the space equivalent of an A-10, A-6, and a few other attack aircraft. I may rename it, thinking something along the lines of dragon right now due to the new tail. The weapon's pods will see some serious rework, just I'm focusing on the missile pod right now.

And the old version for comparison.

[GU-11]

Knight26,

First off, very nice looking renders.

I'm a little confused here. When I read the title, I thought this was a thread about that 80's cartoon of the same name. Apparently not. As I read the posts, you mention something about a book.

Mind letting me in on what this thread's about?

[Knight26]

Thanks Gu-11. Basically these all belong to a book series I have been working on, on and off, for a few years now. Life and other things have prevented me from finishing a major rewrite of it, and late at night I can usually not get much writing done since I have to monitor my disabled son's sleeping, to make sure he is breathing, and so all I can do is play games or work on these designs.

As for the confusion of the title with SPiral Zone, no big deal I think a few people have made that mistake.

I'm thinking that I want to finish up the missile pod tonight, probably make it a little shorter and thinner, but will put some more launch ports in the rear, probably for heavier ordnance.

After that I will start on reworking the Anti-matter cannon, probably will keep the forward mandibles (which open) and redo the rest. Then onto the wings, docking mounts, landing gear, details, etc...

[GU-11]

So all this is for a book you're writing? Cool.

BTW, I'm also a fan of muntins/frames on a canopy, for aesthetic reasons. The VF-22S Sturmvogell 2 is one of my favorite Valk designs for that reason.

Will your book be illustrated? It's a shame to let these designs go to waste.

[Knight26]

The book won't be but the website will and I plan to put these on shapeways too.

[GU-11]

The book won't be but the website will and I plan to put these on shapeways too.

Sounds great. If you don't mind my asking, is it an e-book or published the traditional way [agent, publishing house, etc.]?

[Knight26]

Finally had some time to work on this. Not sold yet on the starboard weapons pod, probably going to trim it down a bit, but I can't too much since that gun has to open. I am also going to increase the size of the engines a bit integrate the under carriage and then start in on the detailing work.

[Knight26]

Finally had some time to update this beast after some serious computer problems. I attached the forward canards and added in the maneuvering thrusters. Next up I will start in on the detailing, finish the landing gear bays, and add the details back to the engines before starting to cut it up and start on the texturing.

[Ghost Train]

Not a criticism or anything, just genuinely curious and would like to ask what's the 'in universe' explanation for the following 2 points:

1) Why the lack of rear visibility on all your designs? Do the cockpits or pilots helmets have screens showing them a rear view, or is lack of rear visibility not an issue? I haven't read your book, so don't know if any within-visual-range dogfighting takes place. If it does, wouldn't the lack of rear visibility be a handicap?

2) Any reason why your designs feature canopy frames instead of one-piece bubble canopies? A personal aesthetic choice, or reasons of strength? On space fighters, I've always felta completely sealed cockpit, with a 360 degree virtual view is probably best.

Graham

This is a bit of a necro-response , but I think bubble canopies with nice rearward visibility is a bit overrated (even in real life) from a common sense perspective. I mean yea you can kind of swivel your head to the back for a little bit, but just to catch a glimpse. The human neck is not designed to sustain that position for a long period of time without developing some serious neck injuries (and this is before you factor in all the forces exerted on the pilot).

By the way... I love those asymmetrical fighter designs.

[Knight26]

Will try and get an update in this weekend, have to do some design clean up on this, and I am contemplating redoing the canopy before getting into the detail work. This is the only one that does not have the curving canopy, but I need to figure out the openning mechanism if I curve it. SHouldn't be too hard. Now, when I start in the detailing I plan to add a bunch of little bumps, blisters and little sensor units, this thing is a beast and has had its role change more than any other so lots of little add ons will be included. Of course then I need to start on the variants, which include the following:

A Model: Standard Configuration: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 1x A/M Cannon, Missile Pod (26 missiles), 2x3 Light Torpedo Packs, Internal Bomb Bays, External Weapons Carriage

B1 Model: Twin Cannon Configuration: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x A/M Cannon, 2x3 Light Torpedo Packs, External Weapons Carriage

B2 Model: Gunboat: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x A/M Cannon, 2x Turretted Plaser Cannons, External Weapons Carriage

C Model: Missileer: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x Missile Pod (26 missiles), 2x3 Light Torpedo Packs, 2x Internal Bomb Bays, External Weapons Carriage

D1 Model: Light Torpedo Boat: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x3 Light Torpedo Packs, 2x6 Light Torpedo Packs, Internal Bomb Bays, External Weapons Carriage

D2 Model: Heavy Torpedo Boat: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x Heavy Torpedo Mounts, 2x3 Light Torpedo Packs, External Weapons Carriage

E Model: ECM/ELINT: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), Heavy Sensor and Jamming Pods External Weapons Carriage, 2 sensor/jammer operators behind main cockpit

F Model: Armored Shuttle: 2x Plaser Cannons (nose mount), 2x Narfic Cannon (flex mounted), 2x Turretted Plaser Cannons, 2x4or5 Passenger Pods, 2 seats behind main cockpit

G Model: Tanker: Unarmed, 2x fuel pods, 2x fuel mating pallets

The Splicer 3000 Marker/Dragon (new name to TBD) is the workhorse of the fleet, stationed on nearly every carrier from light carriers all the way up to heavy fleet carriers. The various models exist in order to provide additional capability to lighter carriers that cannot afford the deck or personnal space to carry larger heavy bombers and dedicated support craft. Other subvarients exist but are not listed.