Legos, anyone?

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Dang, that was quick-my shuttle just arrived too.  I won't get to build it for a while, but I'm glad it's here.

[Scyla]

Built the Spaceshuttle. What a terrible toy. Much too colorful and doesn’t even get the basic shapes right. And those terrible stickers for the loading bay!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Scyla

[M'Kyuun]

I read the comment before scrolling down to the pic, opining to myself that I didn't think it was that bad. Then I scrolled. 

I will say in advance that I'm not looking forward to those 'terrible' stickers in the cargo bay. I am, however, curious to see the new cargo bay door parts. My delivery date bumped out a day, so now it's due Friday instead of tomorrow.  Ah well, something to look forward to regardless.

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

I read the comment before scrolling down to the pic, opining to myself that I didn't think it was that bad. Then I scrolled. 

I will say in advance that I'm not looking forward to those 'terrible' stickers in the cargo bay. I am, however, curious to see the new cargo bay door parts. My delivery date bumped out a day, so now it's due Friday instead of tomorrow.  Ah well, something to look forward to regardless.

Lol I did the same! Funny

Chris

[Chronocidal]

I pretty much ignore stickers as a rule, so I likely won't be touching those chrome monstrosities, or the name labels near the cockpit (which look kind of ridiculous at that oddball angle, anyway).

Think I'll probably find a few mods to make on this one quickly.. might remove the rudder/airbrake feature and adjust the tail slope a little.  I'm even slightly tempted to leave off the printed wing elements, and layer the wings with a few extra plates to give it an airfoil shape, but not sure that'll look better in the long run.

[M'Kyuun]

54 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I pretty much ignore stickers as a rule, so I likely won't be touching those chrome monstrosities, or the name labels near the cockpit (which look kind of ridiculous at that oddball angle, anyway).

Think I'll probably find a few mods to make on this one quickly.. might remove the rudder/airbrake feature and adjust the tail slope a little.  I'm even slightly tempted to leave off the printed wing elements, and layer the wings with a few extra plates to give it an airfoil shape, but not sure that'll look better in the long run.

FWIW, I'm gonna attempt the stickers on this one, as I usually do on these more 'deluxe' sets.  As I said above, I'm not at all looking forward to placing those chrome stickers in the doors- what a PITA. I wish they'd just print all the requisite parts in these larger specialty sets. That's one feather I'll give Mega Bloks- they print everything, and it makes the building experience so much smoother and enjoyable.

Once you've made your mods, you'll have to share some pics, man.  I know that you know your way around the brick, so it'll be interesting to see the fruits of your tweaking.

[Chronocidal]

Heh, it probably won't be anything too substantial, but I might actually try and upscale the Ideas Shuttle's tail design, if I have the right parts.  That one seems like it has a better shape overall, and I think the airbrake mechanism is lower profile.

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, the angle/shape of the tail is probably my biggest issue with it too.  (ignoring that the whole fuselage should be longer/sleeker).  But most all Lego sets have "selective compression" to some degree.  

Pro-tip: the silver pieces do have quite a bit of variance.  Reserve the "good" ones for the top of the Hubble.  

:edit: Pro-tip 2: the side with the NASA logo, is actually the bottom, most of the time it's displayed.  (guess who just had to swap around all the silver parts)

[Convectuoso]

Lego VF-1 cockpit:

More pictures here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3794987600599031&id=948481125249707&sfnsn=mo

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Convectuoso

[Chronocidal]

20 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Yeah, the angle/shape of the tail is probably my biggest issue with it too.  (ignoring that the whole fuselage should be longer/sleeker).  But most all Lego sets have "selective compression" to some degree.  

Pro-tip: the silver pieces do have quite a bit of variance.  Reserve the "good" ones for the top of the Hubble.  

:edit: Pro-tip 2: the side with the NASA logo, is actually the bottom, most of the time it's displayed.  (guess who just had to swap around all the silver parts)

I think if I have the proper parts (and I'm pretty sure I do, just maybe not as smooth tiles), this should make a nice replacement for the tail.

I did a little messing with the angle as well, and while it's less sturdy, I removed the embedded 2x1 clips at the base of the front, and replaced them with 1x1 clips, while moving them one plate higher, and it seems to have tilted the tail back at a better angle.

I've got a pile of other thoughts to sort through about this build, but I'll post them once I finish.  Some stuff here is really leaving me scratching my head.

Edit: Got it built, and it's a bit fragile since there isn't room for much reinforcement, but it holds up well enough.  It appears I have everything but the little white hinge pieces, but fortunately they're about 12 cents on the Pick-A-Brick site, so I grabbed a bunch of those style of clip hinges for future use.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Chronocidal

[Chronocidal]

Finished putting together the shuttle, minus the stand and HST, which I'll do a bit later.  My office is a disaster from all the hunting through parts boxes I did to see if I had the right parts to remake the tail.  Fortunately, it's mostly a success, with a few changes from the design above, because that one dropped a bit too low above the exhausts.

Took the measurements, it's pretty close to 1/72 scale.

I don't know why, but one of the things I felt the most impressed by was the underside.  They just managed to smooth it out almost perfectly.

Here's the adjusted tail.  Just need for my parts order to arrive, and I should have plenty of those hinges to replace the gray parts with matching colors.

So, in one way I'm torn about the tail.. but it's part of a larger discussion about this set.

I'm mostly conflicted about the play features, and how they're implemented.  While I appreciate them doing that to a point... I don't think they perform all that well, and wind up detracting more than adding.

The gear are functional.. mostly.  The mechanism for the front one seems to get stuck a lot.  The mechanism to move the elevons by rotating the top nozzle works, it's just kind of intrusive to the design the way it's done, and I believe it compromised the design of the exhaust area and tail mount.  And, it's.. oddly aligned, and quite sloppy.  The movement of the elevons is dependent on gravity weighing them down so they stay level.  It functions alright, it's just very loose, and they get misaligned a lot, because there's slack in the push rods used to control it.  A geared mechanism would have worked a lot better, I think.

Then there's the tail.  Ok, I appreciate the airbrake/rudder being able to move, it's not a terrible feature.. but as it came stock, that was an ugly tail, and it was just incredibly awkward how they designed that hinge.  My replacement looks better, but given the option, I'd probably brick-build it, and call it a day to get the details better.  But.. I really do like the profile achieved with those angled plates, and I'm not sure if I could pull that off with bricks.  Maybe that'll be a project for the weekend.  It might work, and I think it will just look better.

Anyhow, overall, I was just.. confused several times by this set.  Some of the design choices were just very awkward.. using more mixed elements instead of a single one where it would have made things stronger, or using awkward tiles in the middle of a solid construction for some reason.

You can see I did ditch the big sloped panels at the wingroot, and it wasn't hard to do, I just mixed and matched a few tiles to cover the holes over the wheels.  I understand they were trying to mimic the thickness of the wing, but it just looked very out of place to have those giant panels slapped over the top of the wing at such sharp angles.  I can always just stick them back on if I want to, 

Still probably a few improvements I want to try.  I think the OMS mounts are just plain too fat at the front, so I might try and find a better piece than that rounded plate.  The OMS nozzles also look a bit goofy, so I might look for another option.

Definitely a fun build, with some fun techniques though.  Not sure if I love the nose section design, but it works.  I think they absolutely nailed the wing planform.  Definitely a worthwhile set to get.

Now I just have to see if I can figure out how to build a tank and boosters for it.. and how much that would cost...

[David Hingtgen]

You rang?

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-73206/NG_Design/space-shuttle-10283-upgrade-tank-and-booster-scale-170/#details

(I do note they made the boosters identical-----the left one always has one more stripe)

[Chronocidal]

Hah.. Interesting.  I have to wonder if that would be structurally capable of holding up the shuttle on a display.  I'll believe it when I see it built up.  

Sadly, I kinda knew the boosters would come out looking that way.  The tank is pretty nice, but six-stud diameter round shapes really suffer from the lack of good curves.  I think there are better elements for them, but there's really no helping those nose cones or exhausts. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Chronocidal

[renegadeleader1]

Going to start the Cobi P-38 Lightning when I get home. I'll upload pictures and give my thoughts when I'm done.

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Finished putting together the shuttle, minus the stand and HST, which I'll do a bit later.  My office is a disaster from all the hunting through parts boxes I did to see if I had the right parts to remake the tail.  Fortunately, it's mostly a success, with a few changes from the design above, because that one dropped a bit too low above the exhausts.

Took the measurements, it's pretty close to 1/72 scale.

I don't know why, but one of the things I felt the most impressed by was the underside.  They just managed to smooth it out almost perfectly.

Here's the adjusted tail.  Just need for my parts order to arrive, and I should have plenty of those hinges to replace the gray parts with matching colors.

So, in one way I'm torn about the tail.. but it's part of a larger discussion about this set.

I'm mostly conflicted about the play features, and how they're implemented.  While I appreciate them doing that to a point... I don't think they perform all that well, and wind up detracting more than adding.

The gear are functional.. mostly.  The mechanism for the front one seems to get stuck a lot.  The mechanism to move the elevons by rotating the top nozzle works, it's just kind of intrusive to the design the way it's done, and I believe it compromised the design of the exhaust area and tail mount.  And, it's.. oddly aligned, and quite sloppy.  The movement of the elevons is dependent on gravity weighing them down so they stay level.  It functions alright, it's just very loose, and they get misaligned a lot, because there's slack in the push rods used to control it.  A geared mechanism would have worked a lot better, I think.

Then there's the tail.  Ok, I appreciate the airbrake/rudder being able to move, it's not a terrible feature.. but as it came stock, that was an ugly tail, and it was just incredibly awkward how they designed that hinge.  My replacement looks better, but given the option, I'd probably brick-build it, and call it a day to get the details better.  But.. I really do like the profile achieved with those angled plates, and I'm not sure if I could pull that off with bricks.  Maybe that'll be a project for the weekend.  It might work, and I think it will just look better.

Anyhow, overall, I was just.. confused several times by this set.  Some of the design choices were just very awkward.. using more mixed elements instead of a single one where it would have made things stronger, or using awkward tiles in the middle of a solid construction for some reason.

You can see I did ditch the big sloped panels at the wingroot, and it wasn't hard to do, I just mixed and matched a few tiles to cover the holes over the wheels.  I understand they were trying to mimic the thickness of the wing, but it just looked very out of place to have those giant panels slapped over the top of the wing at such sharp angles.  I can always just stick them back on if I want to, 

Still probably a few improvements I want to try.  I think the OMS mounts are just plain too fat at the front, so I might try and find a better piece than that rounded plate.  The OMS nozzles also look a bit goofy, so I might look for another option.

Definitely a fun build, with some fun techniques though.  Not sure if I love the nose section design, but it works.  I think they absolutely nailed the wing planform.  Definitely a worthwhile set to get.

Now I just have to see if I can figure out how to build a tank and boosters for it.. and how much that would cost...

I finished bag 13 tonight, just prior to assembling the cargo bay doors. I intend to apply the dreaded stickers, and I'd rather put those on when I'm rested and have good daylight. So far, it's been a fun build. I built the Hubble, and parts of that were reminiscent of some of the techniques used on the Saturn V. It looks nice with all that silver cladding. Those slopes are going to be worth a fortune on Bricklink. Overall, I don't mind the functional features, although I'll echo the observation that the elevon mounts (I haven't built the actual surfaces yet) if leveled out, are both slightly raised, as if giving a nose pitch upward command. I imagine the weight of the surfaces will help bring them closer to level, but I doubt they'll be perfectly level due to the use of the steering control rods used to effect the motion. It's a concession, and one I understand due to the confined space in which the designer, Milan, had to work. I'm actually impressed that he incorporated a functional speedbrake, as just making the rudder work would have been simpler to pull off. The slider for the gear is a pretty neat idea. It seems to work smoothly on mine, but then again, mine's only about half built at this time, and building up the nose may add some stressors that cause it to stick as well. We'll see tomorrow. So far, I'm happy with the model as-is, but I can totally get behind making mods to correct those things that are inaccurate or just bug you. More power to you if you can make a more satisfying model. It's certainly part of the charm and challenge of working with LEGO.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

I'm digging the new tail on your shuttle, Chronocidal.  I'm in the same boat; I'm willing to give up working features for a better shape.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

2 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

You rang?

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-73206/NG_Design/space-shuttle-10283-upgrade-tank-and-booster-scale-170/#details

(I do note they made the boosters identical-----the left one always has one more stripe)

Well that was quick.  Now who's gonna do a 747 shuttle carrier?

Edited April 9, 2021 by Valkyrie Hunter D

[Chronocidal]

So, I did notice two funny things about the elevons.  On the one hand, the rotation is actually backwards for steering.. but on the other, if disconnect the tail so the engine mount moves, you can also articulate them both up or down by pulling up or down on the engine.   

I went and updated the digital designer, so I might mess with a brick-style rudder today, and see if the studs align well enough for some SNOT shenaniganry to get a good shape.

[wm cheng]

12 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

So, I did notice two funny things about the elevons.  On the one hand, the rotation is actually backwards for steering.. but on the other, if disconnect the tail so the engine mount moves, you can also articulate them both up or down by pulling up or down on the engine.   

I went and updated the digital designer, so I might mess with a brick-style rudder today, and see if the studs align well enough for some SNOT shenaniganry to get a good shape.

Hey @Chronocidal I love your shape, when you're done could you post a set of instructions with any additional parts I have to buy to make it work?  Like you I don't like the shape of the tail - I just got the set but haven't started building it yet.  That the omission of the Canadarm sticker and the location of the landing gears are my only nitpiks to an otherwise amazing set.

[Chronocidal]

I'll see if I can get a parts list built up, but LDD doesn't want to generate instructions right now for some reason.  I tried not to use anything really rare.  I think most of the parts for the working airbrake above came from a combination of the Spiderman: Far From Home Stark Jet, and the Overwatch Shuttle Launch set, but I'm waiting on a parts order to get the hinges in the right colors.

Here's my best take on a solid brick tail design.  The attachment of the rudder could be made a bit more sturdy using some of the newer elements in the Shuttle, specifically a new brick that's a double-brick height 1x1 brick with two studs on the side, but that one isn't in LDD yet, so I've made do with the single-brick height ones.

There are probably a multitude of ways that that construction could be made more sturdy, either with embedded axles or other types of reinforcements, but that's what I think makes the best shape overall, without redesigning the entire tail from scratch.

Downside to this one is that reverse slope on the underside of the rudder.  While not what I'd exactly call -rare-, it is a brand new element (67440) from last year that only exists in a single set (Police Lighthouse Arrest).  Fortunately it comes in white, and I see it listed on one site for about $0.75, so that's not beyond what I'd call reasonable (and it helps that you only need one), but it's still one of those cases where it's a lot of work for a single element.  The set it comes in might be pretty easy to get, but $30 is a lot to shell out for a single piece.  The other slopes are far more common (60481), with prices in the single-digit cents

Overall, I think the one that keeps the opening airbrake is much easier to get the parts for.

I'm not sure if I can generate instructions, because LDD seems to be having issues with that feature right now, but I think this shows enough of the construction to duplicate it.  Realistically speaking, you could probably remove one of the two sideways stud mounts on the upper hinge, and use a single pivot there, because the double hinge is actually so stiff that the rudder tends to come apart before rotating.  It's hard to open, because the construction is fragile, mostly due to me keeping that single black tile down the center of the rudder.  Removing that could let you tie the entire thing together better with longer plates, but I like the look of that detail.   

Speaking of details, I realized that I can clean up the lower edge of the rudder a little with a couple of opposing sloped elements.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Chronocidal

[sh9000]

The VF-1 cockpit is cool.  @len_d69 does nice work.

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, sh9000 said:

The VF-1 cockpit is cool.  @len_d69 does nice work.

He does indeed.  He made a very nice looking VF-1, which I hope, when all the dust settles between this new agreement between Big West and Harmony Gold, he can submit to IDEAs. There was another VF-1 a few years back that was submitted by a different guy, and it made the 10K votes. But, I think the licensing stuff caused it to be rejected for production. If that interference is no longer present, it opens the door to so many possibilities for Macross related models to potentially see production. I fervently hope so.

 

So, I finished my Shuttle Discovery yesterday (the door stickers were indeed a huge PITA), and it's a lovely set, albeit with the flaws that have already been mentioned by @Chronocidal. The tail is especially egregious, and I can't help but think there's a way to do it better while maintaining both rudder and speedbrake functionality. I likely won't mod mine, but that won't stop me from thinking about it. Anyway, the thing definitely has presence, and I love that they included a small stand to mount the Hubble as it's being released from the cargo bay. It gives the model a sense of dynamism, and it looks good to boot. Kudos to Milan Madge for creating what is sure to become another classic set that is well remembered for years to come.

[David Hingtgen]

I've dealt with a guy who makes really nice stickers (pre-cut even) printed on clear material for MOCs----he only does race cars at the moment AFAIK, but I plan to ask him about a set for the shuttle.  It doesn't need much, just clear-backed versions of "NASA" and "Discovery", and a Canadarm.  (plus the other shuttle names).  I may also try the guy I get train-MOC stickers from.  

Luckily the "big left-wing printed tile" works for all shuttles except Columbia.  (though Columbia is my fave, so that's my eventual goal)    

Fun fact: shuttle names are done in Helvetica, so it's easy to replicate perfectly.   

[David Hingtgen]

Am I the only one bugged by the hump over the gear?  I'm strongly considering just some plates/tiles instead.  

::edit:: And those hump-pieces will NOT work for Columbia's scheme.  (otherwise the wings should be quite easy to switch----swapping out two tiles and the 3x12 wedge plate for black ones will be just about perfect color-wise, the only remaining issue is the actual markings)

::edit 2::  Oooh, look what I found:

https://www.brickstickershop.com/Precut-Custom-Replacement-Stickers-for-Lego-Space-Shuttle-Orbiter-Rebrickable-MOC-46228-(transparant)

Wrong size, but EXACTLY what's needed.  I just emailed them asking if they could upscale them for the new set.   It's got enough to do every shuttle and era.  

[Chronocidal]

Yeah, the humps were one of the first things I looked into fixing on mine.  They give the wing a more accurate thickness, but they taper down far too quickly, so they may as well not be there.  It just looks better with everything flat.

Good catch on the alternate plates for Columbia's wing markings though, that is a really easy switch.

I did realize something about the opening airbrake design I posted earlier.  In the closed state, there's exactly one plate's worth of space between the panels, so you can actually reinforce the two halves of the rudder entirely on the back side if you want to by adding alternating plates on both halves.  Doesn't make the hinge mounts any stronger, and may set off some OCD reactions for being asymmetrical (though, so was the stock airbrake, so nothing really lost there), but I was able to remove all the extra plates on the outside of the rudder, so they look thinner.

Quick and dirty phone pics, but you get the idea.  

I'm not sure which I like better.  Part of me likes cleaning up the exposed studs, but in a situation like this, I dislike the overly thick rudder more than the studs showing, and stacking plates on top of the angled plates for the shape of the tail actually detracts from the overall shape, because the thickness hides the angles of the edge from many perspectives.

[David Hingtgen]

I think the original rudder looks fat, so any attempts to slim it are a good thing.  

Interestingly, this photo confirms my suspicion----the name on the real thing "wraps around a corner". I suspect that if you trimmed the excess border, the original sticker may actually fit, if you just "go for it" and place it how it should be, angles be damned:

(also, while the wing does have an upper surface airfoil profile front to back, it's pretty dead flat root to tip)---

(and really, the upper surface doesn't even quite curve, it pretty much just slopes at a constant angle) Fat leading edge, thinner at the rear, and straight lines to make that happen.

[no3Ljm]

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, that's pretty much a must-buy for me.  While I am one of many who think Robin would be a better choice, a Romero Joker is a nice fig, even has 'stache printing.  

Maybe they plan a Robin/Batgirl set?  60's Batgirl with her Batcycle is an obvious companion set for this, and Robin is the only logical second figure for it.  And then everyone he would be "forced" to buy it, to "complete" their Batmobile...

[M'Kyuun]

This version looks to be more accurate than the previous model that came in the 1966 Batcave set. Like that set, I'll be leaving those shooters off.

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

This version looks to be more accurate than the previous model that came in the 1966 Batcave set. Like that set, I'll be leaving those shooters off.

Trying to tell from the picture, but they're not on one of the box pics.. do they flip out from under the hood?

[Tking22]

Looks pretty much the same as the one from the Classic Batcave set to me, and I've got that set so this is a pass for me.

I finally ordered my Discovery, I'm excited to check it out, I'm also pretty surprised it's stayed in stock as long as it has since it released. With double VIP points going again, I'm glad I waited to grab it, the Lunar Lander is on the way too.

[David Hingtgen]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Trying to tell from the picture, but they're not on one of the box pics.. do they flip out from under the hood?

They simply give you an extra pair of black curved slopes, to swap as needed.   You can see one in the trunk.  (with a gold 1x2 attached)

[M'Kyuun]

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Trying to tell from the picture, but they're not on one of the box pics.. do they flip out from under the hood?

No- they're permanently mounted there. It would have been cool if they flipped up, but I don't recall that ever being something that happened with the real car in the show. It's pretty much LEGO taking license and adding them for playability's sake. Not only are they not accurate, but personally I think they look dumb, so I'll be leaving them in the box and I'll probably fill the gaps with tiles to give the hood its smooth look.

12 hours ago, Tking22 said:

Looks pretty much the same as the one from the Classic Batcave set to me, and I've got that set so this is a pass for me.

I finally ordered my Discovery, I'm excited to check it out, I'm also pretty surprised it's stayed in stock as long as it has since it released. With double VIP points going again, I'm glad I waited to grab it, the Lunar Lander is on the way too.

Similar, but the '66 Batcave set came out in 2016, so this set benefits from five years' worth of new parts. Looking at the available angles of the new set, it's more accurate overall than the 2016 classic Batmobile. The designer did a pretty good job on the 2016 version, but the 2021 set makes use of the new 2x1 left and right wedges (29119, 29120) to capture more of the subtle shaping of the car's features. Too, it now has all three of the pipes sticking up behind the cockpit; the 2016 only had two of them. New parts help bring it closer to true. But, it's LEGO and at minifig scale, it's still more suggestive than actually accurate due to the difficulties of capturing so many complex curves at this scale. It's still pretty cool, and I'll be getting a copy when it's available.

9 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

They simply give you an extra pair of black curved slopes, to swap as needed.   You can see one in the trunk.  (with a gold 1x2 attached)

Ah, I wondered what those were for. Saves me time from rooting about in my collection. Thanks David!

Edit: Brickset has done an early review of the new '66 Batmobile. As part of their review, they did side by side comparisons of the figs and Batmobile from the 2016 Classic Batcave set.  Neither set gets the starting point of the tailfins correct; they should start in the middle or right after the front windshield piece and travel over the door, but there probably wasn't room for the minifig arms to fit, hence the concession. It's nice to see the parachutes around the jet exhaust, which itself is a new Technic piece that looks closer to the real thing than the 2016 set.

I wonder how long it'll be before we get an Expert Creator version.

Anyway, the 2016 set is on the left, and the 2021 on the right.

Edited April 13, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[David Hingtgen]

TLDR: It's not perfect (and never will be at this scale) but almost every aspect is better than the previous one.   

[David Hingtgen]

Well, I managed to get the VIP Ulysses probe for the shuttle.  It's also going for a good amount of money right now on ebay, to the point that it could pretty much refund the purchase of the shuttle itself.  Is there anyone here interested in it, before I put it up?   Sorry, can't let it go for "MSRP", but I will entertain reasonable offers based on it's going for right now, to sell it to fellow space-enthusiast Lego fans here at MW.