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danth

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20 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The 1989 Batwing was a lot thicker than the new set, it was darn near what I would call stumpy.
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holy S.... the '89 Batwing is THICCC:

batplane | Tumblr what a GREAT SFX shot... 

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funny, I had always pictured/remembered it as more sleek in my memory... 

 

If you can find the plans for that one you have pictured there @Chronocidal, I'd like a copy (or to know where I can get one) please, it's great!

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For comparison sake.  Got to admit....I’m not liking it as much any more. You’re right, it’s way too thin and I don’t care for the blunt front points.

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I think a blending of this new kit and the one that chronocidal posted would be best as there are things on that one I don’t like either.

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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Yeah, the top profile isn't too bad, but that thing needs to go on a Ben & Jerry's binge and put on some curves. :p   (Though, funny enough, the leading edge of the wing is also way too thick.)

I'm kind of honestly considering getting two of them, and just stacking the parts vertically to make it thick enough.  I really don't get it.. there are probably thousands of ways they could have built that shape, and dozens of other elements that would have made a much nicer and more accurate curve.. they just didn't feel like using any?  Hell, even just using another pair of the long curved slopes on each side to stretch the curvature all the way to the tip of the "ears" would have been a huge improvement.. but they didn't.

It's like the UCS Slave I all over again.. <_< 

Memory-wise though, I think the Batman TAS design was so iconic that it made it hard to recall exactly what the others looked like.  My own idealized Batwing design is actually somewhere between the TAS and Forever versions, with a very elongated shape that I think may have been partially due to some forced perspective shots in TAS.

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It's always interesting how some things can be carried out better at minifig scale, while others beg for large scale to really nail an aesthetic. In this case, I think the simpler build at minifig scale suits the design, and of course, it's more fun to play with. As Chronocidal mentioned, at the large scale, it really comes down to more choices of which bricks to use, as well as techniques, to achieve a desired look. Like he said, there are better ways to achieve a more accurate shape than what they opted for. It's a shame, but at the end of the day, it's LEGO; mod it 'til it looks right. as for me, I'm really not that picky- it does a good enough job to suit my tastes. I do, however, wish they'd made the vulcans retract into the fuselage- that was clearly shown in the movie, and should be a functional feature on a large model like this. I'll reiterate my hope that this will be accompanied by a System scaled version, although they'll likely cock it up like they did the System '89 Batmobile.

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43 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Yeah, the top profile isn't too bad, but that thing needs to go on a Ben & Jerry's binge and put on some curves. :p   (Though, funny enough, the leading edge of the wing is also way too thick.)

I'm kind of honestly considering getting two of them, and just stacking the parts vertically to make it thick enough.  I really don't get it.. there are probably thousands of ways they could have built that shape, and dozens of other elements that would have made a much nicer and more accurate curve.. they just didn't feel like using any?  Hell, even just using another pair of the long curved slopes on each side to stretch the curvature all the way to the tip of the "ears" would have been a huge improvement.. but they didn't.

It's like the UCS Slave I all over again.. <_< 

Memory-wise though, I think the Batman TAS design was so iconic that it made it hard to recall exactly what the others looked like.  My own idealized Batwing design is actually somewhere between the TAS and Forever versions, with a very elongated shape that I think may have been partially due to some forced perspective shots in TAS.

For me, I actually like the new kits main wing section shape better than the custom you posted. I think it just needs the central section to be bulked up more  like the one you posted. I’d also probably leave off the miniguns if they can’t retract.

Chris

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a reminder to anyone interested, BrickCon is this weekend. This year, for the first time, due to Covid, it's being held entirely online. There are going to be, interspersed throughout the Con, some live interaction vids with some of the MOC builders doing Q&As, and just talking about their creations. For the first time, too, BrickCon is allowing renders and digital models (they're generally verboten, but these are unique circumstances). Anyway, as a regular attendee for all but one BrickCon since 2011, I can attest it's definitely a great time in person, but I'm sure the organizers will make it a fun experience this year as well. And as always, lots of great builds will be on display, and mine too. 

I am a non-compensated non-spokesman with absolutely no affiliation with BrickCon.org.  I am a fan who likes to share his LEGO hobby, and this is a really excellent venue for doing so. Mods, if I'm breaking the rules by advocating, feel free to delete the post.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The LEGO '89 Batwing went up for sale for VIPs only yesterday, and I decided I'd go in on a copy this morning, but they're already sold out.  The trend of underestimating demand on initial releases plagues any number of companies, but LEGO seems to  excel at it.  <_< What really sucks about it is that we're still in a double VIP point window, so that would have been a nice bump.

Alas, I hesitated, as my vehicle is in the garage currently for repairs, and in anticipation of a sizeable bill, I demurred yesterday. This morning, I was feeling a little more cavalier, and decided to just go for it, but it looks like I'll be waiting, along with all the non-VIPs, for them to eventually restock.

For those of you with kids, or perhaps just nostalgia from your own childhoods, LEGO IDEAS released a Sesame Street set. Growing up with the show myself in the 70s and 80s, I must confess a bit of nostalgic attachment. Part of me wants it for the figs (Ernie, Bert, Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Elmo, and Oscar the Grouch), as we'll likely never get these characters again, although Sesame Street seems like it would have been a good partner with LEGO decades ago given the shared target audience. It's certainly more apropos than some of its other licensees, but I digress. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it here.

 

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Oh! That LEGO Ideas Sesame Street set looks quite nice. I've only seen pictures of it in passing before now, but the final minifigs of the the Muppet characters that they're including look well done in those marketing shots. This is one of those sets that could have also benefited from the minifig dual face gimmick. To bad there's no easy way to implement that for Bert, Big Bird, and the rest, but those characters can be so emotive on TV thanks to the work of the puppeteers. Perhaps we will get additional character sets or more faces if LEGO decides to pick up the license? That would be fun.

Also, sorry to read that you missed the Batwing @M'Kyuun. I'm passing on it myself, but I empathize with your frustration on how LEGO is handling their limited run pre-orders. I purchased the new LEGO AAT when it went up as part of the summer Star Wars wave. Of course it went to backorder almost immediately. It was part of a larger purchase with a combined total that gave me a GWP bonus. Anyway, a number of items in the order were delayed. The AAT was delayed for well over a month. By the time I got everything, the LEGO limited bonus gift was out of stock. I know, first world problems but it was still frustrating.

There are days the new normal seriously stinks.:help:

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Hmm, yes, yes it does. Alas, character building.^_^ As it happens, I just returned from retrieving my truck from the garage, and the financial damage was a quarter of what I was anticipating, so my regret at having not jumped on the Batwing yesterday stings a bit. But, I've lived 49 years without it; another few weeks to a month or so won't kill me. As I get older, I find my need for stuff has watered down to a mere want, if that makes sense. The lack of availability, or exclusivity, is frustrating, but more often than not, patience prevails.

Missing out on the free items, as those are one-time deals, and the double VIP points are the real bummers.

Edited by M'Kyuun
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  • 2 weeks later...

If "LEGO IDEAS" (f.k.a. Cuusoo) is about single sets proposed by individual fans, then "LEGO World Builder powered by Tongal" (LWB) is about themes proposed by a leader which then accrete content from an ad hoc community. More generally, stories -- the worlds might be tapped for video content, not for toys. Unlike IDEAS, you can propose extensions of existing TLG-owned themes. It's not clear if TLG has lost confidence in its own ability to generate themes, wants a new form of market research, or is merely using this to drive engagement (TLG has done a whole lot of "throw stuff at the wall" experimentation over the past five years, I'm saying). Or maybe it's more subtle: encourage young builders to feel ownership of original ideas, i.e., "have we done imagination a disservice by providing so many official stories?" (From AFOL events, I know there's a segment of the market who need social-approval to "color outside the lines.")

The "elements" of a story are characters, society, history, places, storylines, transport, items, and resources. Thumbnails for each element-file are exposed, but to open files, login is required; and it's a separate account -- unlike IDEAS, LWB doesn't federate your lego.com credentials. There's a TOS but no FAQ, so a lot of entries seem to violate the "must be 18" and "don't infringe on IP" rules. As with IDEAS, nobody seems to be moderating submissions for the latter.

There's a "help wanted" set of filters (rather like open-source site ... um, whasisname ... it was a big deal 20 years ago, pre-GitHub), but none for "most collaborators" or "has been populated with content." To date, most of the discussion comments are "your world is neat / please vote for mine."

There are some neat worlds:

  • ReMyth -- Legendary fauna have returned and are remixing. It's by illustrator Mike Rayhawk, creator of the BrikWars/QuikWars tabletop rulesets and concept artist for LEGO Universe.

The barrier to creating a world is low, so inevitably there's a lot of dreck -- much of it obviously written by people who don't meet the 18-year minimum stipulated by the TOS. If you view them as "premise for a motion comic or funny video," a larger fraction become palatable.

  • LEGO Banana World -- "Our world is filled with banana people. The building [sic] are shaped like peeled bananas and the world itself is a giant banana." That one has a summary image and "about" passage but no elements.
  • Purim is the Jewish Halloween (it involves masks and costumes, I gather?) is prima facie a poor fit for TLG, but it originated in one of the platform's "story prompts" -- "families watch a LEGO Holiday special" will elicit some that are religious in nature. (This project has a generic and ill-fitting "T-rex roaring at minifig" summary image -- I've seen it on a bunch of worlds, so it must be a default you can choose. Also, the architect went overboard with the tags: "dystopian, time travel, superhero.")
  • There's a whole slew of "holiday X with Goopy Ghost" worlds (e.g., Goopy Ghost St. Patrick's Day), but created by the IP holder, author (not illustrator) Terry Verduin a.k.a. V.R. Duin.
  • Please return Bionicle to it [sic] former glory isn't even a project, just a cri de coeur.

Some worlds clearly violate TOS section III re: IP infringement.

  • KonaSuba -- which is a recent RPG-styled isekai light novel/TV anime/movie, I gather? (The psychology of such things seems to be "fans are fickle / young enthusiasts want their latest shiny in LEGO form.")
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I consider myself as being fairly abreast of the various goings-on in the LEGO realm, but I'm not familiar with World Builder. For those who enjoy writing fanfic, or just doing world-building on their own for their own enjoyment, I can see LEGO as being a ready medium to give form to the ideas, and it's cool that such a thing exists. It's not really my thing, but I won't begrudge those who use it. 

As for LEGO's own world building via themes and such, those of us LEGO fans who grew up in the late 70's, 80's, and 90's have fond memories of Space, Castle, Pirates, Town (now City), Adventurers, & Alpha Team. I'm probably missing a few, but the gist is that LEGO invested heavily in those earlier days in homegrown themes with little to no set storyline to guide the action, except perhaps the box art, which generally delineated the good guys from the bad.  The sets of that era stood on their own merits because they had to, fueled by a neat set and a lot of imagination, not to mention the wonderful ability to mix parts from one theme with those of any other. Although LEGO lacked the sophistication and utility that it possesses today, with its plethora of specialized elements, it was a really fun toy to grow up with. Nearly fifty years old, I'm among the few that never stopped growing up with it. There was a long period where I didn't do much MOC building, but I never stopped buying and building sets; LEGO's had its plastic claws in me since I was about six, and I consider my life the better for it.

As the volume of my collection grows inexorably, my wife my beg to differ.:lol:

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17 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I consider myself as being fairly abreast of the various goings-on in the LEGO realm, but I'm not familiar with World Builder.

LWB was a head-scratcher when TLG announced it in August -- how is the intent distinct from IDEAS? -- but "official platform for collaborative fanfic / potential monetary reward" covers it nicely. Collaboration is a big thread in AFOLdom -- apart from standards that permit ad hoc town, train and moonbase layouts, in the LUGNET era there was a slew of space themes defined by color scheme (Neo Classic Space, 3vil, Jade Empire, etc.) and the MOCs often came with backstories -- but it's novel that TLG has officially recognized/endorsed/harnessed the impulse, as opposed to tolerating it. I get the impression that Bionicle, as LEGO's second theme-with-story (not the first -- that would be Fabuland -- just the first in the internet era) inspired a lot of non-plastic fan-art.

With IDEAS, TLG may have noticed the prevalence of (a) clusters of single-set proposals that comprise a theme, and (b) numerous independent submissions on a topic. They might hope that the enthusiasm expressed in (b) can be bundled together. To borrow a term from publishing, there's gotta be a sizeable team reviewing the "slush pile."

So far, LWB is less entertaining than IDEAS -- an abstract, barely-fleshed idea doesn't grab you like a picture of a MOC. A MOC you can instantly decide "I'd buy that" or identify specific aspects to comment/criticize -- but a world-proposal demands a lot more thought. Finding a world to which you can contribute requires effort; creating a contribution (text, illustration, MOC) is serious effort.

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Absolutely, the image of a model creates a much stronger and more immediate impression upon the viewer than an abstract story ever will.  The adage , "A picture is worth a thousand words' is a truism with merit. Stories require an investment of time and need to have coherence and something to hook the reader to keep them engaged. Cuusoo, and its evolution into IDEAS makes complete sense for a toy company, as it showcases their core product and offers a platform to do stuff outside of their usual purview. A good model will catch the eye regardless of whether or not there's a story attached. Often the fun is in creating the story ourselves. So, giving a platform to the storytellers is, in my mind, a bit of a gamble unless a story worthy of co-opting into a product line and potentially a show comes about. I'm assuming that if such a story is adopted, LEGO will recompense the author(s) a percentage similar to IDEAS. I won't discount it as a waste of LEGO's time out of hand, but it seems like a much longer shot to finding success than Cuusoo or IDEAS ever was.

Then again, some fan may just create the next Bionicle or Ninjago. Who knows?

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Very impressive set; unfortunately, I don't have the space for such a behemoth. Heck, my UCS Millennium Falcon , which I bought several years ago, is still sitting unbuilt in my bedroom b/c I have nowhere to build it, let alone display it. Someday, hopefully.

But yeah, the Colosseum is lovely. :wub:

 

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I have to wonder how the financials work on a set like this. I mean, it's out of nowhere. It's over $500. It's huge (largest set ever?). It's not Star Wars or part of some beloved brand.

Isn't this massively risky? People who buy architecture sets might not have room for this thing. Or want to spend the dough.

Maybe they just aren't going to make many of these? Maybe the reuse of the same pieces in the same colors makes it cheap enough to be super profitable regardless? Maybe it's a loss-leader marketing set and they don't really expect to sell a ton of them?

Basically...how do I forgive this seemingly haphazard release when they haven't put out a non-licensed Space them in 6 years. <_<

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47 minutes ago, danth said:

I have to wonder how the financials work on a set like this. I mean, it's out of nowhere. It's over $500. It's huge (largest set ever?). It's not Star Wars or part of some beloved brand.

Isn't this massively risky? People who buy architecture sets might not have room for this thing. Or want to spend the dough.

Maybe they just aren't going to make many of these? Maybe the reuse of the same pieces in the same colors makes it cheap enough to be super profitable regardless? Maybe it's a loss-leader marketing set and they don't really expect to sell a ton of them?

Basically...how do I forgive this seemingly haphazard release when they haven't put out a non-licensed Space them in 6 years. <_<

Don't Lego architecture sets generally sell quite well?

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1 hour ago, slide said:

Don't Lego architecture sets generally sell quite well?

I don't know how well they sell, but giant sets like this are basically LEGO printing stock options for collectors.  When they make giant record-setting sets like this, I want to guess that a large portion of them never get opened, and will sit on some collector's shelf until the value hits some target, before being sold off to another collector for a profit.

They're very impressive sets, but they're also impractical for anyone who doesn't have dedicated display space, and they're obviously not targeted at anyone who would actually want something to play with.

Odds are, the price per element is so low because of how many incredibly tiny parts it will have, and they mostly look like very common elements, so it's easy to mass produce them in this color.

It's odd, but I'm starting to see two very conflicting sides to the entire LEGO product situation.  On the one hand, you have an interview I heard of (but have not seen myself) where an adult collector talked with someone from the company, and all the LEGO rep did was hammer home the point that "LEGO is for kids" when he went off on collectible and value discussion.  But then, you have them putting out sets like this that are clearly not targeted at kids, and really only serve collectors (whether they have display rooms of completed sets, or boxed), or people who want to turn a profit on this type of set by parting it out and selling them piecemeal online.

Meanwhile, it's incredibly disappointing to see the LEGO market begin to approach Bandai DX levels of insanity, as adults hammer online shops buying up stacks and stacks of sets they know will be in high demand, just to dole them out piece by piece in online markets, selling off individual minifigures for utterly ridiculous prices, because, for some reason, minifigures have become some type of precious commodity?  I've got a younger friend who has taken up the hobby of painting and decaling his own minifigures, because the official ones are reaching such astounding prices.

This all, of course, baffles me to no end, because much like other action figure lines, I never cared about the figures that much, because I was more interested in the vehicles, and with LEGO in particular, most of my creations don't use figures to begin with, because they're out of scale.  But somehow, people have driven the cost of individual minifigures far beyond the cost of the entire set they originally came with.  :wacko: 

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I think LEGO has shown that being for kids and being for adults is no longer mutually exclusive. They've adapted the brand so that they can reach a wider swath of customers. Clearly, LEGO is for kids and adults these days, with certain sets being aimed at both age groups. I actually think that's a good thing on the face of it. Going back to the topic of people buying up popular sets or rare minifigs...well...scalpers will be jerks no matter what brand you follow. 

The aftermarket on LEGO is surprising, though. I can't believe how much sellers are pulling for 1980s/90s sets that are in 'okay' condition with no box and worn instructions. Add a box and nice instructions and the sale price goes through the roof. I guess if there's one thing driving scalpers to continue raiding the well of new stuff, it's that data point. And to that point, it would be nice if these on-line shops developed a better algorithm to deter scalping. Not the bogus site slow-down methods that sites like AmiAmi or HLJ use, but something that actually works.

Edited by technoblue
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2 hours ago, technoblue said:

I think LEGO has shown that being for kids and being for adults is no longer mutually exclusive. They've adapted the brand so that they can reach a wider swath of customers. Clearly, LEGO is for kids and adults these days, with certain sets being aimed at both age groups. I actually think that's a good thing on the face of it. Going back to the topic of people buying up popular sets or rare minifigs...well...scalpers will be jerks no matter what brand you follow. 

It's not that it's not for both adults and kids, it's that the adult collectors have latched onto the kid-focused products, and are slowly driving the younger generation out of the market.  I know a kid who has younger siblings, and they love playing with the Clone Wars stuff.. or, rather, they would, if they could afford any of it, but scalpers are running the prices of the figure battle packs up into the heavens. 

It's like the collectors market has stopped bothering with the concept of waiting for something to go out of production, and are purposefully running the production lines dry to artificially inflate the value.

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The only way for the scalpers to be shuttered is by eliminating the whole idea of limited product runs, thereby rendering any attempt at selling one over MSRP ridiculous.

That's likely too big an ask, sadly.

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1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

It's not that it's not for both adults and kids, it's that the adult collectors have latched onto the kid-focused products, and are slowly driving the younger generation out of the market.  I know a kid who has younger siblings, and they love playing with the Clone Wars stuff.. or, rather, they would, if they could afford any of it, but scalpers are running the prices of the figure battle packs up into the heavens. 

It's like the collectors market has stopped bothering with the concept of waiting for something to go out of production, and are purposefully running the production lines dry to artificially inflate the value.

Oh! Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I understand and agree. But I wouldn't categorize those adult collectors as actual LEGO fans. I would rather classify them as LEGO brick investors. I think it's a poor practice myself, since most of these 'investors' aren't really interested in building the LEGO sets or using the LEGO pieces in some creative MOC or DIY design. They seem solely interested in trading on the aftermarket to improve their financial portfolio. 

It's a little unnerving, and like you note it kills the regular economy for the rest of us.

1 hour ago, slide said:

The only way for the scalpers to be shuttered is by eliminating the whole idea of limited product runs, thereby rendering any attempt at selling one over MSRP ridiculous.

That's likely too big an ask, sadly.

Maybe. The things I've seem programmers do with AI lately have me hoping that they could create an intelligent algorithm that could get ahead of the scalpers, though. The crux is that some store will have to care more about customer service than profits to do the development work. Like you say, that may be too big an ask.

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I wonder if any other forms of collectables will suffer the crash that sports cards did in the 90's...

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Agreed about Lego's odd market targeting choices with this latest set.  However, I have noticed a series of sets aimed at what I would describe as adult builders over the past few months.  Namely the minifigure scale build-a-city-block sets (10260 Downtown Diner, 10246 Detective Office, 10255 Assembly Square, etc.)

Maybe it's a reaction to increased demand for these kinds of sets due to the stay-at-home orders?  Perhaps the Colosseum is a combination of the demand for architectural sets AND these larger city block sets?

 

As far as scalpers go... they're getting into the game even before the product is released: Kawamori's Designer's Notes book isn't even released, but a used copy was listed as "available" on Amazon.jp with something like a 30% markup!  (Thankfully Amazon has removed it, but still... :rolleyes: )

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Cody does an exceptional job with his military models.  What's more, he seems very knowledgeable of his subjects, and doesn't bring an ego to the table when he talks about his models in his demo vids.  Brickmania is where most of his stuff is sold as kits, but be warned, they're not cheap. People complain about LEGO's pricing, but these will set you back a bit. I was watching a Beyond the Brick vid of a guy at Bricks by the Bay, a LEGO convention in San Francisco, and he was displaying a mini-base chock full of Brickmania models, many of them modded with working lights- just guesstimating, but he probably had about $5K or more tied up in his display. Too rich for this poor AFOL. 

It's cool that some folks can afford to take the hobby to that extent, though, and always a treat to see it in person if you can attend a convention where they're exhibiting.

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I've completed my Harry Potter Castle—not just all the sets (released so far), but as a 'castle'! v(^_^)v  I would have liked to fit the Room of Requirement in a bit better, but I don't have a free afternoon to figure out the best arrangement of the castle pieces!  LOL

If any of you are Harry Potter fans, all of these sets are fun to build.  While a lot of the builds are straightforward, they do employ some SNOT and other advanced techniques.

What I like the most out of this series is that from the outside, it makes for a pretty decent castle (on a scale smaller than that of the minifigures).  On the inside, it's full of nods to the key scenes and events in the movies.

 

HPcastle01.jpg

HPcastle02.jpg

HPcastle03.jpg

HPcastle04.jpg

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I've bought the majority of previous Harry Potter releases over the years, but skipped these, albeit somewhat regrettably, as they look amazing, and due to any number of new elements, like proper candles and candle flame, the overall appearance of these sets is superior to their predecessors. But, they're expensive and voluminous, and in the interest of trying to scale back my LEGO purchases, I've passed on them.  Gotta say, seeing them connected and arranged, they look great together. I'll likely kick myself years from now for not buying them. 

Enjoy, Sketchley, and thanks for sharing!

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3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I've never been too into the Potter sets myself, but can I just say that the concept of having properly tapered cone elements is something I have wanted, entirely literally, for over thirty years.

Bout freakin' time, LEGO. :p 

That's one of the appeals of this set: big, giant cones to make rocket engines with!!!  However, the question becomes: do I want to take the castles apart?  They make great display pieces.

 

Agreed that they are expensive and rather voluminous (display space is an issue—am currently contemplating how to hang the Lego ISS on the ceiling to free up shelf space!)

Of the 4 big sets, the great hall is structurally the weakest (I've had to reinforce the underside).  However, it is also the most impressive.  One drawback is the sheer number of windows—each needing it's own black mesh piece!  :vava:

Currently the clock tower is my favourite.  I really like the asymmetrical symmetry of the building on the front side.  Not to mention that it comes with the mermaid "stained glass" window for the baths. ;)

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