Legos, anyone?

[Chronocidal]

I'll probably pick one up regardless (provided the orders aren't another stupid limited release disaster), but I've got more than enough parts to rebuild it into something that feels more substantial and functional, like an actual vehicle loading bay instead of an open-air trailer.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Chronocidal

[M'Kyuun]

On 12/19/2024 at 9:50 AM, danth said:

In the video, the designer shows the drop ship fall very quickly and swooshes the ship away. I don't think he got the memo on 18+ Icons sets. Adult Icons sets should have interesting, well thought out mechanisms that don't sacrifice the overall integrity of the design for an "action" feature. Just dropping an exposed buggy out of an otherwise empty mid section of the ship -- that belongs in a kid's action theme, not in Icons.

The buggy doesn't even look like it fits snugly into the ship's midsection. It just hangs back an entire stud behind the front cross beam. If the front of the buggy sat on and hid the crossbeam, it would feel like, hey, someone carefully designed this. As it is, it just looks haphazard.

TBF, Jae holds the ship almost vertical to retract the gears and the buggy stays in place. It would've been cool had he done a roll with it just to prove that it's secure, but after watching the vid, I'm feeling confident that the buggy won't arbitrarily fall out. Of course, that does little to ameliorate my disappointment that the box element is altogether missing. I can't smite that deceased Equus enough. On a side note, while I appreciate the 'B' build, it just doesn't say Alienator to me, either. I've seen MOCs over the years that did it better, IMHO. I really wish Mike Psiaki had been the designer. His update to the Galaxy Explorer introduced an interesting way to realize the superstructure and the wingplan all while still retaining the essential look and features of the original ship, as well as adding some new ones. It's a masterclass in approach to creating an update of a vintage model. However, no model is created in a vacuum; even the most experienced designers still get feedback from other designers as well as other folks throughout the process of bringing a model to production, and with Jae being a new designer and this being his first Icons model, I'm sure there were many eyes on it and lots of feedback sought and given along the way. That it made its way through all those checks without having some fundamental changes made to hew it closer to the OG ship is telling for future vintage Space updates. Check your expectations.

edit: After posting, I checked out Duckbricks' review in which he turns the ship completely upside down and the buggy remains secure. Oddly, he continually reiterates that the GWP Blacktron Cruiser set from earlier this year is cross-compatible when Jae the designer of the new Renegade said it is not due to differences in the clip systems utilized for modularity.

Edited December 20, 2024 by M'Kyuun

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I'll probably pick one up regardless (provided the orders aren't another stupid limited release disaster), but I've got more than enough parts to rebuild it into something that feels more substantial and functional, like an actual vehicle loading bay instead of an open-air trailer.

I'll likely try to get two copies. I don't hate it, but I sure do wish Jae hadn't sacrificed the central cargo box to the gods of creative liberties. I haven't looked much elsewhere online, but I'm curious if there are similar sentiments coming from the fandom. If so, I kinda feel bad for Jae, as he seems rather passionate about Classic Space and wanted to put a new spin on the old set. Unfortunately, no one told him along the way that perhaps the box and the double cargo doors in the back should remain as essential play features.

[danth]

22 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

TBF, Jae holds the ship almost vertical to retract the gears and the buggy stays in place.

edit: After posting, I checked out Duckbricks' review in which he turns the ship completely upside down and the buggy remains secure.

I don't think I made my point very well. I wasn't worried about the buggy staying in place.

I was just saying that the feature seemed to be focused on the "action" element. You fly low and drop off your buggy in one quick swoosh. Unlike the Galaxy Explorer where you have to first land, open the rear doors, and then pull out the ramp. The former seems more fitting for a kids action theme than an 18+ Icons set. Whereas fiddling with functional bay doors and ramps might appeal more to us older "kids".

22 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

 Oddly, he continually reiterates that the GWP Blacktron Cruiser set from earlier this year is cross-compatible when Jae the designer of the new Renegade said it is not due to differences in the clip systems utilized for modularity.

I noticed that too! Weird.

[M'Kyuun]

14 minutes ago, danth said:

I don't think I made my point very well. I wasn't worried about the buggy staying in place.

I was just saying that the feature seemed to be focused on the "action" element. You fly low and drop off your buggy in one quick swoosh. Unlike the Galaxy Explorer where you have to first land, open the rear doors, and then pull out the ramp. The former seems more fitting for a kids action theme than an 18+ Icons set. Whereas fiddling with functional bay doors and ramps might appeal more to us older "kids".

Ah, I see your point now. Sometimes the ole cranium is like that lab door in Tron. I concede your point and, too, would have preferred a removable box and double doors at the rear, like the original, as well a fold out ramp akin to that on 10497 Galaxy Explorer. The air drop mechanism is cool in its own right, but IMHO, neither fitting for this particular model nor as engaging, practical, or fun as the original's box and door setup.

19 minutes ago, danth said:

II noticed that too! Weird.

I would assume, perhaps erroneously, that Chris, the owner and host of Duckbricks, who himself has been to Billund numerous times for unveilings of new sets and interviews with their designers, keeps abreast of what other reviewers, especially those of Tiago's stature as a former designer himself, are posting. Chris himself is friends with a number of LEGO designers and is generally well-informed on his subjects. Having watched Tiago's interview before Duckbricks', I was a bit surprised that Chris continued his assurances that the GWP Cruiser, an update to the original Blacktron Invader, was compatible with the new Renegade. I'm sure he owns that set (he has over 6000 LEGO sets in his collection and intends to found a LEGO Museum) as he often receives full waves of sets free from LEGO to review as well as specialty items. I guess that only proves he's human like the rest of us. 

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

I've been building my own Speed Champions lately, finishing up a couple of legends of LeMans - the venerable Porsche 962c and the revolutionary Mazda 787b:

These original designs by SFH Bricks and custom decals make these builds on par with the Speed Champions line, which makes me glad I don't have to wait for LEGO to make their official versions.  The decals are quite well done.  They even have some for the minifig drivers:

I fallen down deep into the rabbit hole with 8-stud wide builds of fine autos.  More to come!

[sketchley]

While poking around to try and figure out why the 2025 Blacktron Renegade looks off, I stumbled across the following pictures showing the Cruiser and Renegade clips, and clipped together:

Source: Jay Ong's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayong28/p/DDw8DqWPivq/?img_index=1

 

As for why the Renegade looks off: the overall silhouette (in red) is octagonal, whereas the original was more diamond-shaped.  In addition, the 'bulky bits' (in green) are arranged in an H shape on the new one, while the original was a rectangle.

As the new Galaxy Explorer is fundamentally the exact same shape as the original—just bigger!—one wonders why the Blacktron Renegade's shape was so drastically changed...  Perhaps the Lego group will have much better sales if they didn't market it as the Renegade, but as an entirely new Blacktron ship? 🙄

 

Edited December 21, 2024 by sketchley

[Chronocidal]

12 minutes ago, sketchley said:

While poking around to try and figure out why the 2025 Blacktron Renegade looks off, I stumbled across the following pictures showing the Cruiser and Renegade clips, and clipped together:

Source: Jay Ong's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayong28/p/DDw8DqWPivq/?img_index=8

 

This... makes no sense to me.  Why would they specifically design the two linkages using exact opposite setups?  It's not like it's hard to modify them at all...

Otherwise though, I'm really getting tired of these clip systems.  They might hold well enough, but why is it so hard to just pin things together with technic pins like we've been doing for roughly forty years?  Did they discontinue the bricks with permanent pegs attached?

Whatever the situation though, I do hope I can pick up a pair of these.  I just want to extend the design and scale it up more faithfully like the Explorer set.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Chronocidal

[danth]

I like how this guy fixed the colors:

https://brickset.com/article/117215/improving-the-new-renegade

[snakerbot]

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Why would they specifically design the two linkages using exact opposite setups?

It's not that they're opposite, it's that the linkages on the Cruiser are gendered and the ones on the Renegade are androgynous.

[Gabe Q]

I'm really torn on this new Renegade. I'm feeling lots of nostalgia for it but I'm really let down by some of the design choices. At first glance, it just looked "off" somehow. As I read all of the above posts, I realized exactly why it looked that way to me. Thanks for the great explanation, @sketchley. 

Anyway, I feel as if I get this, then I'm going to have to track down and buy the original. Then I'll have to track down and buy the whole original Blacktron line. I only have so much disposable income! 

[M'Kyuun]

On 12/20/2024 at 10:56 PM, Valkyrie Hunter D said:

I've been building my own Speed Champions lately, finishing up a couple of legends of LeMans - the venerable Porsche 962c and the revolutionary Mazda 787b:

These original designs by SFH Bricks and custom decals make these builds on par with the Speed Champions line, which makes me glad I don't have to wait for LEGO to make their official versions.  The decals are quite well done.  They even have some for the minifig drivers:

I fallen down deep into the rabbit hole with 8-stud wide builds of fine autos.  More to come!

These are brilliant. the white one in particular doesn't even look like LEGO on first glance, so well is the build and the applied livery. Hope you'll share more pics of these. I'm not a car guy, per se, but I enjoy the Speed Champions line quite a bit.

On 12/20/2024 at 11:23 PM, sketchley said:

While poking around to try and figure out why the 2025 Blacktron Renegade looks off, I stumbled across the following pictures showing the Cruiser and Renegade clips, and clipped together:

Source: Jay Ong's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayong28/p/DDw8DqWPivq/?img_index=1

 

As for why the Renegade looks off: the overall silhouette (in red) is octagonal, whereas the original was more diamond-shaped.  In addition, the 'bulky bits' (in green) are arranged in an H shape on the new one, while the original was a rectangle.

As the new Galaxy Explorer is fundamentally the exact same shape as the original—just bigger!—one wonders why the Blacktron Renegade's shape was so drastically changed...  Perhaps the Lego group will have much better sales if they didn't market it as the Renegade, but as an entirely new Blacktron ship? 🙄

 

I appreciate that comparison. Purely from an initial view, the new Renegade is notably much chunkier than the original, which had a more minimalistic skeletal look to its frame that helped it to look sleeker. I, too, wish the designer had opted, like Mike Psiaki's excellent update to the Galaxy Explorer, to maintain a closer appearance to the original ship while enlarging the whole and updating various areas and features accordingly. The new design is a notable departure from the original, made all the more apparent by a side-by-side comparison. I still plan on getting a copy or two, but my enthusiasm is much less for this than what I had and still have for 10497. However, it's Classic Space, and I want them to continue reviving more old Space themes, so I'll be getting at least one.

On 12/20/2024 at 11:35 PM, Chronocidal said:

This... makes no sense to me.  Why would they specifically design the two linkages using exact opposite setups?  It's not like it's hard to modify them at all...

Otherwise though, I'm really getting tired of these clip systems.  They might hold well enough, but why is it so hard to just pin things together with technic pins like we've been doing for roughly forty years?  Did they discontinue the bricks with permanent pegs attached?

Whatever the situation though, I do hope I can pick up a pair of these.  I just want to extend the design and scale it up more faithfully like the Explorer set.

Usually I'm in agreement with your views, Chronocidal; however, I much prefer using the clip and bar connections as opposed to Technic pins, which oft prove to be a royal PITA to engage when two or more are used for a quick disconnect system. So far as the GWP Invader set, oddly renamed Cruiser, goes, I surmise that it was designed independently from the Renegade with little or no bleedover, hence the differences in clipping systems. Fortunately, it shouldn't be too difficult to mod to bring it into compliance with the Renegade's clip system. I oft entertain fantasies of modding sets, but I seldom follow through, even after buying copies of the sets that I intend to mod. I find building my own stuff more fulfilling (and time-consuming) and generally abandon modding efforts. This is a set that could definitely stand some heavy modding to render it closer to the OG set as well as rendering it closer to what 10497 did for the Galaxy Explorer, but I already know that I'll likely never bring myself to do it. However, I'm curious and I look forward to other folks' mods for this thing, as there's a bit of discontentment already swirling and you just know mods are coming.

Edited December 27, 2024 by M'Kyuun

[Chronocidal]

Fair, it's not that the clips are a bad system to use, they do offer a lot of compact options in a lot of different configurations, and they definitely hold well.  The Saturn V set makes that pretty clear.

My general issue with them is just how many of them I've found broken over the years.  They've gone through a few revisions to make the clips sturdier (and I think I still have a few really old ones that are really thin plastic), but it seems like I'm always finding new broken ones on builds I've left on display.  Last time I picked up my Ideas shuttle build, the tail and one wing flap both fell off from broken ones.

They're a really good tool for assembling complex shapes involving angled plates, and great for hinge joints, but using them for something specifically designed to be detached and reattached repeatedly feels like you're just asking to have to order replacements.

Fortunately they're really common, and cheap to order in bulk.  Maybe that's just the way they're being treated now, as disposable parts to be replaced when they wear out.

 

[M'Kyuun]

2 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Fair, it's not that the clips are a bad system to use, they do offer a lot of compact options in a lot of different configurations, and they definitely hold well.  The Saturn V set makes that pretty clear.

My general issue with them is just how many of them I've found broken over the years.  They've gone through a few revisions to make the clips sturdier (and I think I still have a few really old ones that are really thin plastic), but it seems like I'm always finding new broken ones on builds I've left on display.  Last time I picked up my Ideas shuttle build, the tail and one wing flap both fell off from broken ones.

The Saturn V is an exemplary set for use of clip and bar joints. Just a brilliant set.

I find it alarming that you've had so many clip breakages; I keep a lot of sets out on display and to whit I've never had an issue yet with broken clips. Add to that my numerous transforming MOCs which I manipulate and put on public display every year.

However, I've noticed a lessening of clutch power in some parts with clips of late. I built a pumpkin that turns into a spider and it relies heavily on the skeleton arms to effect motion in a goodly portion of the model. I gave my last good model of it away this last BrickCon and ordered enough parts to build two more from LEGO's online PAB. I've built at least six copies of this thing since the original in 2019, which itself went through probably a hundred or more transformations at a convention before I gave it to its intended owner. Even after all that manipulation, all the joints were still tight, and thus it was for pretty much every other model I built of it until just recently. I did a lot of mixing and matching of various parts with bars and skeleton arms before finally finding a group that only somewhat have the collective clutch power of every previous version. I'm not sure what's going on, but it's frustrating. I could blame it on mold fatigue, but I even resorted to digging into my parts stash for older parts that I've had for years and the problem persisted. I keep my parts at room temp (around 77 degrees Fahrenheit) and that temp doesn't swing much in either direction throughout the year. I think the problem lies with the skeleton arms, but I'm not sure why I'm experiencing the same weakness in my older parts when I never did before. It's weird. However, my issue lies more with clutch power than breakages, of which I have had very, very few over the years despite my heavy use of them in my models. 

[M'Kyuun]

On 12/21/2024 at 12:32 AM, danth said:

I like how this guy fixed the colors:

https://brickset.com/article/117215/improving-the-new-renegade

I stumbled on that independently very early this morning when I couldn't sleep. I was going to post it, but I'm glad I didn't now. Huw Gilliam is a pretty well-known British builder who does a lot of CAD rendered MOCs but also builds the odd model with real brick. Looks like this recoloring is the latter, and IMHO, it's an improvement on the original. I think the cockpit, especially, benefits from the removal of all the yellow, but overall I think the greater use of black throughout improves the model and brings it closer to the original look of Blacktron. I appreciate that he built a central container like the original, but honestly, I'm not really feeling those heavy latticed support elements on top. Huw didn't change the drop mechanism, either, and IMHO, the new Renegade is due for a retrofit of swinging doors and a ramp in the back to bring it closer to the original.

[David Hingtgen]

Keeping the drop-mechanism, but implementing the swinging-rear-doors aspect of the original, would be very difficult I imagine.  Pretty much has to be one or the other.   So, if you want rear doors, you also need to redo the entire center section to have either a drive-in rover, or a slide-in cargo pod.  At which point we might as well just start from scratch, since the entire mid-section needs to be massively re-worked in that case... 

[Chronocidal]

What I've found most often is that when those clips lose their clutch power, the main cause is tiny fractures in the center of the clip.  They don't shatter outright, but the tension will be lost once that pressure fractures the surface of the clip.  They'll stay that way a long time, but the friction will be gone.

[M'Kyuun]

5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

What I've found most often is that when those clips lose their clutch power, the main cause is tiny fractures in the center of the clip.  They don't shatter outright, but the tension will be lost once that pressure fractures the surface of the clip.  They'll stay that way a long time, but the friction will be gone.

The concern is that I'm experiencing the lack of clutch power from new, never-used skeleton arms. I turned to my older stock, in fact, because until just recently, I had a higher degree of efficacy from them than new parts.  Even my older parts, which haven't seen much use, are evidencing a reduced clutch power which makes me wonder if it is indeed an environmental issue.

6 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Keeping the drop-mechanism, but implementing the swinging-rear-doors aspect of the original, would be very difficult I imagine.  Pretty much has to be one or the other.   So, if you want rear doors, you also need to redo the entire center section to have either a drive-in rover, or a slide-in cargo pod.  At which point we might as well just start from scratch, since the entire mid-section needs to be massively re-worked in that case... 

My thinking is to move the release mechanism's trigger to the forward bulkhead freeing up the engine section to be modded into doors thus mimicking the original's design. I love cargo as a theme and as a design feature; the omittance of the original's cargo box to house the land vehicle is a strike against this set as an update. That's a fair bit of playability lost: loading and unloading the vehicle into the box, loading and unloading the box itself, which requires the additional feature of opening doors and the possibility of a ramp, and finally, the modularity of the box to be incorporated into another smaller ship utilizing the cockpit and a single engine component. With further modification, both the air drop feature and a land-based cargo door/ramp features would expand the playability of the design by a fair margin and bring it closer to the original set in its characteristics. I wouldn't mind applying these and other modifications in an effort to render it a much more faithful, albeit properly upgraded, version of the original Blacktron Renegade. While modding is not at all my strong suit, as I tend to concentrate on variable mecha, as an owner of the original set there's a part of me that's a bit discontented with this new Renegade, especially when looking at the excellent execution of 10497 Galaxy Explorer compared to the original 497/928. This set misses the mark in a few areas.

[pengbuzz]

Edited December 29, 2024 by pengbuzz

[renegadeleader1]

Got the new Galactic Modular Spaceship from Lego's "City Space" line alongside the Science Mech polybag kit.

 

The GMS was a fascinating build as the instructions have you building the individual modules as separate the separate builds and not the main spaceship that graces the box cover. The only down side is with either builds you are going to end up with leftover part you can't store in the other version. Either the walls of the living habitat or the connection bricks that reinforce the pins holding the big ship together.

The photos are also a little misleading making you thing two minifigs can fit in the cockpit when there's room for only one and one of the little alien guys with the spacesuit that also came in the Science Lab set.

 

Also despite the airlock system the ship uses you really can't have minifigs pass through the habitat module to the cockpit with some modifications as the build just doesn't allow it. The pilot can't even access the second section of the ship module from the cockpit due to how the ship is designed.

 

All that is just nitpicking. Overall it's a great build and very swooshable.