Question on VF-1 v2 1/60 Neck/Collar Issue

[Graham]

OK, from time to time, I've seen people on this forum complain about the appearence of the v2 1/60 VF-1 neck.

I've gotta ask, what exactly is the problem? To me the neck has always looked fine.

Could somebody please post a clear pic with text and arrows (if necessary) explaining what it is about the neck that they think looks off, as I just don't see or get it.

I will then possibly raise this issue with Yamato.

But I do need a clear illustrated explanation, perhaps including comparison pics with the lineart.

Thanks in advance,

Graham

[alchemo]

I may be oversensitive, does it mean a new version (in 1/48 or 1/60) is under development?

Edited September 30, 2011 by alchemo

[charger69]

I may be oversensitive, does it mean a new version (in 1/48 or 1/60) is under development?

OMG NO

Bring me the largest panic button

[boota]

Graham, I think this is what they meant. But since I don't tuck or lock the chest plate all the way down, the "collar" does not jut out so much. But in doing so, the chest plate will be slightly higher than the back plate when viewed from the side. If the chest plate locks all the way down, the back plate will be flush with it.

Anyway, in case Yamato is revising the VF1, PLEASE PLEASE PREETTY PLEASE, MAKE ALL THE JOINTS AND STRESS BEARING AREAS IN METAL PARTS, PLEASE!

Oh before I forget. Picture credit goes to Jenius of anymoon.com

[Renato]

All you need to do is compare the 1/60v2 to the 1/48. 1/48 got it right, 1/60 looks wrong.

[mr.chogokin]

But the 1/48 with the GBP armor looks headless! Ask for a telescoping neck this time.

[myk]

Wow is it really that much of an issue?

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Wow is it really that much of an issue?

Not for me

As boota said, I never lock the chestplate down so the collar is barely visible.

[m0n5t3r]

Not for me

As boota said, I never lock the chestplate down so the collar is barely visible.

for me the collar only shows for the 1/60 v.2s with the old crotch.

all the "new crotch" v.2s that i have barely show any "collar", even if i lock the chestplate all the way down.

[Reïvaj]

I never thought that would be an issue at all for I think that, proportionately and aesthetically speaking, the 1/60 looks better in that area.

Looking at the pictures the 1/48’s head looks sunk in the chest plate even with its longer neck.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Looking at the pictures the 1/48’s head looks sunk in the chest plate even with its longer neck.

The detractors of the v2 collar, prefer the sunken head of the 1/48 because it gives the VF-1 a more menacing look. The raised head of the 1/60 gives a more proportioned humanoid look.

Guess it's just personal preference. Me? I love all my v2's.

[MacrossJunkie]

Alternatively, you can just avoid pushing the fuselage up the slider all the way.

That's what I did with my Max VF-1A in these shots.

And of course, it's completely a non-issue on the 2 seaters like the VF-1D where there is no dip at the top of the chest piece and is instead completely level.

[Mechapilot77]

first time i saw that complaint on anymoon (love that site), i was like "wow...thats some nitpicking right there". to me, both 1/60 and 1/48 look "right enough". i actually prefer the 1/60 proportions overall (nosecone is too low on 1/48's to my liking). anyway to each his own. the 1/60 V2's (and 2.1's or whatever) are pretty damn good to me...and i've been a fan of the vf-1 design since 1984 or so.

[valhary]

I don't see the problem for me is unnecessary adjust a change that improve estetic and funcionality of a 80s mecha and achieves at the same time respect the essence of the original design

yamato should focus in improve other areas like a rotating cockpit, gunpod with bullets (like do with patlabor) better design hands, joints pilots, detailed head visors, things like that

[Raptor One]

My only problem with it is that with the collar that high you can see the gap where the canopy hinge is. But like MacrossJunkie said there are ways around that.

[pud333]

Wow is it really that much of an issue?

Apparently it is for some fussy people on here. I have no problems with it. honestly, I never noticed it until someone brought it up one day.

Edited September 30, 2011 by pud333

[MacrossJunkie]

for me the collar only shows for the 1/60 v.2s with the old crotch.

all the "new crotch" v.2s that i have barely show any "collar", even if i lock the chestplate all the way down.

I think you may be right about the newer T-bar locking mechanism fixing the issue. The only ones I have that have the old version are the 2-seaters where the raised collar is not an issue anyway. With the other V2's that I have, the rest can have the T-bar locked in without pushing the fuselage up the slider if you choose not to.

TL;DR version: I think Yamato already solved the problem and don't need to waste more time and resources on this.

[ErikElvis]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But if I did have to nit pick a balance between the 1/60 and 1/48 head placement wouldn't be a bad thing. You can really see the difference in the side to side of the heads relation to the chest piece.

Edited September 30, 2011 by ErikElvis

[jenius]

I admit, it's been a big pet peeve of mine and I'm sure I'm in the minority. For me, I feel like it removes some of the brutishness of the battroid mode. By introducing the collar and moving the neck upward it makes the chest look less bulky and gives the overall battroid the look of just your average joe humanoid form instead of a bruiser. MacrossJunkie's pics look great though so it looks like some massaging can get things closer.

[m0n5t3r]

I think you may be right about the newer T-bar locking mechanism fixing the issue. The only ones I have that have the old version are the 2-seaters where the raised collar is not an issue anyway. With the other V2's that I have, the rest can have the T-bar locked in without pushing the fuselage up the slider if you choose not to.

TL;DR version: I think Yamato already solved the problem and don't need to waste more time and resources on this.

yep. that's exactly what i do with my newer v.2s... i only slide up the forward fuselage up until its horizontally lined up with the grey neck piece.

with the older ones, even if you don't slide the fuselage all the way up, a good portion of it still shows but definitely not up to the canopy hinge.

I may be oversensitive, does it mean a new version (in 1/48 or 1/60) is under development?

as for this, i don't think Yamato will do an all new 1/60 VF-1 line ever again... i'm perfectly happy with all my v.2 that i wouldn't re-buy any even if it is an improved version. they should just make all the non-canon schemes that i know everyone here is wishing for (stealth, flanker etc. etc.).

...but they could be making an improved 1/48 version and continue the line where they left off...

[Shaorin]

I admit, it's been a big pet peeve of mine and I'm sure I'm in the minority. For me, I feel like it removes some of the brutishness of the battroid mode. By introducing the collar and moving the neck upward it makes the chest look less bulky and gives the overall battroid the look of just your average joe humanoid form instead of a bruiser. MacrossJunkie's pics look great though so it looks like some massaging can get things closer.

the VF-1 is a sleek fighter jet that transforms into a rather sleek-ish Mecha. the 1/60v.II nails that dead-on, IMHO.

if one wishes to turn their VF-1 into something resembling a FAZZ GUNDAM or the like, then there's always the armor sets out there...

Edited October 1, 2011 by Shaorin

[Uxi]

Yeah, I never cared about this one. My only complaint with the TV Roy is it could use some folding side flaps like the VF-11B got for the shoulders. Otherwise, it's perfect.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Uxi

[jenius]

the VF-1 is a sleek fighter jet that transforms into a rather sleek-ish Mecha. the 1/60v.II nails that dead-on, IMHO.

if one wishes to turn their VF-1 into something resembling a FAZZ GUNDAM or the like, then there's always the armor sets out there...

I'm not saying that the 1/60 V2 doesn't come close... i'm just saying the line art looks a bit tougher.

[mechaninac]

That line art is also very battroid centric; carry those proportions over to fighter mode and you'd get a very goofy looking plane.

Personally I'm totally satisfied with the proportional compromises Yamato achieved with their V2 VF-1s, specially since they revised some of the design to address the real issues with the first few releases.

[Reïvaj]

I'm not saying that the 1/60 V2 doesn't come close... i'm just saying the line art looks a bit tougher.

Yeah, but that’s very unrealistic and transformable toys are all about proportions. If you were able to transform that battroid into a fighter it’d look really bad. I prefer Yamato’s proportions a thousand times.

[jenius]

I understand the common consensus that people don't mind that the battroid mode takes liberties from the line art. I'm not arguing for the creation of some massive scale toy with mechanisms that would allow for shifting proportions. For me, I would prefer the nosecone be slid down the less than a centimeter lower and the neck be at the proper location and size. I realize that this is nitpicking and that this would mean the nosecone would be drooping down a bit too low but since it's already much lower than the line art I don't think that'd be much of a problem. I also think this could be incredibly easily engineered and not at all unrealistic. As a result of putting the neck in the right spot I think it'd restore the appearance of some additional bulk in the chest. I also wish the backpack was higher up and the shoulder lights were bigger. Those are also nitpicks but I think that also helps battroid look a bit heftier. On that note, Bandai nailed the tail section and where it sits in battroid making their Hi-Metal more accurate in both battroid and fighter modes in that one respect.

[alchemo]

Bandai Hi-Metal have the chest plate higher then the back part to hide the "collar" and the joint for folding the chest plate.

proportionally the nose cone is even longer then Yamato's and if the chest plate is flush with the back, the collar will even protrude more, together with the joint.

And the "ab" area is far too long IMO.

For Yamato's I do prefer the 1/60 then the 1/48, as the nose cone extended below the knee is a bit too much.

and for line art, sometimes it is just impossible to realize, that's why we have wave's very fat batroid and Hasegawa's fighter with very slim, nose cone.

[jenius]

To be clear, I said the Hi-Metal was better in ONE respect, the backpack placement and the lights by the shoulders. Here's the inevitable comparison shot:

[VF5SS]

I know that's the one front view but maybe you shouldn't be comparing this stuff to a drawing Kawamori didn't even do :v

but yeah whatever let's praise Bandai for copying Yamato's design wholesale

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Look the issue of the long neck is there. Graham asked what people were referring to and jenius provided his answer.

Let's not turn this into a bandai vs yamato war. Besides I think even IF bandai did take something from the yamatos that so long as it resulted in a great toy then it generally means good things for those who want a good valk toy at small scale.

Actually I think if they all bounce ideas off each other by looking at flaws of each other's work and trying to improve their own by looking at the mistakes of the other guy in the hope they don't repeat it themselves, then this means they will now have incentive to try harder the next time as they hear the valid criticisms of people who pay money out of thier own pockets to buy it and not just random attacks from employees who work at rival companies. That "need to please" then results in better things in the future thanks to feedback from fans. Theoretically you'll get better products in shorter timespan because both companies learn from the mistakes of the other company, as well as their own and then avoid the risks when they see what path not to follow.

Personally I much prefer the 1/48 height of the chest but the 1/60 in general is a lot more balanced in proportions (1/48 still has tiny hands and non-realistic feet thrusters lol) so overall it is still the king of the vf-1 right now despite not being perfect.

Once yamato sort out these little things everything will be better if they plan for another improvement down the track.

One improvement I would like to see is the side part covering being on all future valk releases. This is part of the valkyrie as much as the intake covers are. Why should only the gbp release have this? Clearly we see hikaru fall over in the vf-1D and get a close up view of the side of the battroid closed shut, so why have yamato not provided side parts for non-gbp valkyries??

How much money would it have cost these guys to just include them free like the extra missiles, intake covers, pilot, and extra hands??

Graham please remind yamato that we would like to have this piece included in future.

It is PART of the battroid just as much as the heatshield and intake coverings are. Not an add-on like the fold boosters, armor, sound booster, stands, fast pack, etc. These would be ok as seperate purchase.

Also another improvement that would be nice is being able to angle the head lasers outward. I always like to do that for vf-1j and vf-1s when in robot mode.

EDIT:

The "too low" nose cone thing can't be helped since lineart of battroid mode has always shortened this part to make the robot appear more tough. I bet as a 3d cg object which doesn't cheat by using anime magic, the vf-1 would follow the lineart proportions of fighter mode more. To me fighter mode is the most important and I'm ok with a skinny valk. The vf-11 for instance does not look tough in bot mode, but it has a nice fighter mode. When vf-11 gets the armor add-on it looks normal. Paintings of the robot mode with large fists and fat short nosecones is just an artist interpretation. It's not important who the artist was, but that it is taking liberties whenever you see changes in size and shape to make the mode look more appealing in those drawings, so you can't always rely on them.

Edited October 2, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[mr.chogokin]

As far as proportions go, I like the Bandai 1/100 VF better. It's got great proportions on all three modes. Its Battroid has a lesser gap at the side, because the chest is not positioned too far from the back, so it looks less hollow at the side. The head and neck position are just right. What I don't like about the Bandai 1/100 VF are the size of it... Bandai should have made then 1/55 and the minimal part swapping of the landing gears and heatshield.

[alchemo]

the way-too-long abdomen is a proportion flaw IMO, other then that it's proportion is very much like the 1/48's, large chest plate, long nose cone. and the gap on the side, if it was to be blow up by 40%, I suspect it would be as wide as the Yamato's.

I do like Bandai's design on the shoulder as it pose a lot less stress on the joint when transforming.

[Vi-RS]

To be clear, I said the Hi-Metal was better in ONE respect, the backpack placement and the lights by the shoulders. Here's the inevitable comparison shot:

To me it's all about compromise, you can't have both.

IMO Yamato did a great job by introducing the ingenious method by pushing up the fuselage, this gives a better overall proportion in battroid mode by shortening the fuselage.

The 1/48 and Bandai 1/100 or I must say all transforming toys and model kits of VF-1 in the past have the common problem, elongated or saggy crotch setction.

[Kyp Durron]

Look the issue of the long neck is there. Graham asked what people were referring to and jenius provided his answer.

Let's not turn this into a bandai vs yamato war. Besides I think even IF bandai did take something from the yamatos that so long as it resulted in a great toy then it generally means good things for those who want a good valk toy at small scale.

Actually I think if they all bounce ideas off each other by looking at flaws of each other's work and trying to improve their own by looking at the mistakes of the other guy in the hope they don't repeat it themselves, then this means they will now have incentive to try harder the next time as they hear the valid criticisms of people who pay money out of thier own pockets to buy it and not just random attacks from employees who work at rival companies. That "need to please" then results in better things in the future thanks to feedback from fans. Theoretically you'll get better products in shorter timespan because both companies learn from the mistakes of the other company, as well as their own and then avoid the risks when they see what path not to follow.

Personally I much prefer the 1/48 height of the chest but the 1/60 in general is a lot more balanced in proportions (1/48 still has tiny hands and non-realistic feet thrusters lol) so overall it is still the king of the vf-1 right now despite not being perfect.

Once yamato sort out these little things everything will be better if they plan for another improvement down the track.

One improvement I would like to see is the side part covering being on all future valk releases. This is part of the valkyrie as much as the intake covers are. Why should only the gbp release have this? Clearly we see hikaru fall over in the vf-1D and get a close up view of the side of the battroid closed shut, so why have yamato not provided side parts for non-gbp valkyries??

How much money would it have cost these guys to just include them free like the extra missiles, intake covers, pilot, and extra hands??

Graham please remind yamato that we would like to have this piece included in future.

It is PART of the battroid just as much as the heatshield and intake coverings are. Not an add-on like the fold boosters, armor, sound booster, stands, fast pack, etc. These would be ok as seperate purchase.

Also another improvement that would be nice is being able to angle the head lasers outward. I always like to do that for vf-1j and vf-1s when in robot mode.

EDIT:

The "too low" nose cone thing can't be helped since lineart of battroid mode has always shortened this part to make the robot appear more tough. I bet as a 3d cg object which doesn't cheat by using anime magic, the vf-1 would follow the lineart proportions of fighter mode more. To me fighter mode is the most important and I'm ok with a skinny valk. The vf-11 for instance does not look tough in bot mode, but it has a nice fighter mode. When vf-11 gets the armor add-on it looks normal. Paintings of the robot mode with large fists and fat short nosecones is just an artist interpretation. It's not important who the artist was, but that it is taking liberties whenever you see changes in size and shape to make the mode look more appealing in those drawings, so you can't always rely on them.

Couldn't have said it better myself, especially the part I highlighted in bold text!

-Kyp

[eugimon]

As far as proportions go, I like the Bandai 1/100 VF better. It's got great proportions on all three modes. Its Battroid has a lesser gap at the side, because the chest is not positioned too far from the back, so it looks less hollow at the side. The head and neck position are just right. What I don't like about the Bandai 1/100 VF are the size of it... Bandai should have made then 1/55 and the minimal part swapping of the landing gears and heatshield.

The head position on the hi-metal and the v2 1/60 is about the same. The difference is that the hi-metal just has a long neck while the v2 has the "collar" but the objective position of the head is near identical.

I'm not sure how well the hi-metal design would handle being upscaled though. Problematic areas like the wide hips and elongated torso would only be exacerbated by making a larger version of the toy, imo.

I do agree that the backpack positioning is the most accurate out of the modern toys though.