Basara Nekki

[Bri]

I don't get where some of you are saying "Basara is a prick." He's not pissing in anyones cereal, or badmouthing anyone in general. He teases Mylene, but that's more in a sibling way than anything. Basara is no more a prick than Isamu, Roy, or Michel.

That's true. Even among the mains Basara is one of the kinder guys. I guess his gruff manner puts some people off.

[justvinnie]

Sorry to nit-pick, but I really hate it when the word "deconstruction" is misused in that way. Deconstruction is a method of READING texts, not WRITING or CREATING them.

Hahaha! Nerd alert! Oh wait, I understand and agree with what you are saying...

[Radd]

The thing is, many people are going to find Basara difficult to relate to. It's easier to forgive someone who is actually gruff, abrasive etcetera if you can relate to them a bit. If you can't relate to someone at all, you're not going to overlook those aspects as easily.

[Old_Nash]

Get's in the way during battle? BASARA SAVED THE ENTIRE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE!!

... And Minmay did the same thing to pacify the Zentraedi, and Ranka and Sheryl did the same thing to tame the Vajra.

Even Ishtar did the same to pacify the Marduk ...

[Zinjo]

That's definitely one way to see it. However, you can also say that Basara is an extremely strong and passionate character who holds fast to his beliefs and doesn't let anyone tell him otherwise.

In writing those characters have a name, "Pointless!"...

Without personal conflict there is no growth. I have to agree that if Basara started out as an angry musician who learned inner peace through his music and by extension influenced the PD to do the same, that would be growth. Static characters, much like static events are boring and a waste of money to put them on screen. At best Basara was a catalyst for the development of both Mylene and Gamalin as characters, but such a person is NEVER the star, but a supporting influence in the story.

MOST people don't want to watch the same character week after week NOT CHANGE or GROW!

Take Basara out of the featured protagonist role and he becomes an acceptable part of the whole journey. Put him front and center and he is a distraction to the tale. I've said it many times and I still hold to it, that M7 was a one season show, shoe horned into to two seasons.

The bulk of the story meat is contained in only half the episodes, the remainder of the episodes were merchandizing commercials for the music and toy industries.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Zinjo

[ff95gj]

I have a theory. Basara is related to Vajras. They both

- strongly respond to music

- have no concept of lingistic communication

- are apparently unable to think or reason

- are more difficult to kill than you'd wish

[Gubaba]

I have a theory. Basara is related to Vajras. They both

- strongly respond to music

- have no concept of lingistic communication

- are apparently unable to think or reason

- are more difficult to kill than you'd wish

Can't fully get on board with that, but to support your case, you should also know that the word "Basara" means "Vajra."

[ff95gj]

Can't fully get on board with that, but to support your case, you should also know that the word "Basara" means "Vajra."

So much for my theory.

[kamadoma]

I like Basara first because of his music. I love Fire Bomber songs more than any other Macross singers' and I listen to them on a daily basis.

Second is because I do have a jerk attitude like he does, and so I can relate to him. I'm usually the one that gets it my way without bothering what others say about me.

When my circle of friends usually go out drinking or on a birthday party, I'm the one least expected to join since I'm on my own doing what I want without bothering about what others say or think.

[Omegablue]

Dislike this arrogant cardboard character with a passion. So one way one and unrealistic.

[knoted]

When Minmei put up an attitude in DYRL near the end, it took Hikaru to slap her and put her in her place.

I haven't seen many M7 episodes, but it doesn't seem there's a character to put Basara in his place...or is there ?

So far, Basara gets a dislike from me. ( an acceptible anti hero would be Mark Landry, but that's Ro....)

[Castel]

Well, that's something Hikaru and Basara have in common, they are both pretty much douchebags.

(come on, you know it)

Edited November 13, 2011 by Castel

[Bri]

Well, that's something Hikaru and Basara have in common, they are both pretty much douchebags.

(come on, you know it)

heh, and they are the nice guys of the bunch. What does that make Isamu, Alto and Shin and Hibiki?

[ff95gj]

When Minmei put up an attitude in DYRL near the end, it took Hikaru to slap her and put her in her place.

I haven't seen many M7 episodes, but it doesn't seem there's a character to put Basara in his place...or is there ?

So far, Basara gets a dislike from me. ( an acceptible anti hero would be Mark Landry, but that's Ro....)

Instead of being beaten to realize the reality, the reality bent to his will.

No matter what he did, however illogical or impossible, became correct.

This remains me of Kamina in Gurren Lagann; however Kamina was a lot more fun and a million times charming. He doesn't have much development either in terms of character. However he made buddies on the road, even after he died his Force ghost was still with everybody to give a push in that dimensional thing. Definitely not "You don't understand and I am correct. Listen to my song".

[justvinnie]

Didn't realize there were so many people who subscribed to submissive mediocrity.

If you're right, then you're right. Who gives a damn about what everyone else thinks? Basara is by far my favorite Macross character because he's not emo, doesn't need to grow up. He's got his crap together.

Just because M7 uses an unconventional dramatic perspective from conventional stories does not diminish its merits. Besides which, Basara as a character does undergo change though out the show. He engaged in a journey of self-discovery that ultimately led him back to the starting point. His beliefs are ultimately justified. If you are looking at end points, then yes, there is no change, but if you are looking at the path he takes then you realized he made a full circle.

[ff95gj]

If you're right, then you're right. Who gives a damn about what everyone else thinks? Basara is by far my favorite Macross character because he's not emo, doesn't need to grow up. He's got his crap together.

Interesting that you elaborated after this paragraph.

[Killer Robot]

This remains me of Kamina in Gurren Lagann; however Kamina was a lot more fun and a million times charming. He doesn't have much development either in terms of character. However he made buddies on the road, even after he died his Force ghost was still with everybody to give a push in that dimensional thing. Definitely not "You don't understand and I am correct. Listen to my song".

I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right: Kamina was a much better realized and more effective presentation of the character Basara was supposed to be. He was driven to impossible convictions, which he then met. He was straightforward and open but never standoffish or mysterious: people around him might have thought he was insane at first, but it was easy to tell exactly what he stood for. He was genuinely pulling people out of fatalistic inaction, and he drove them to find their dreams. He was the bearer of a grand ideal, the guy who had things down from the start, and was the face of the show, but he wasn't presented as the protagonist: he was the mentor to the rest.

If Basara was written with that competence, even in such silly and over the top style, he'd just be a better character than what we got.

[anime52k8]

so in other words, if Basara was a womanizing a-hole who solved all his problems with violence then everyone would be calling him the greatest character ever.

[Killer Robot]

so in other words, if Basara was a womanizing a-hole who solved all his problems with violence then everyone would be calling him the greatest character ever.

He could have laid off the womanizing and solved them with music instead. He just needed to actually be convincing as a motivator, and ideally been more portrayed as driving mentor than as protagonist and savior.

[knoted]

Well, that's something Hikaru and Basara have in common, they are both pretty much douchebags.

(come on, you know it)

Ehm, the point is rather ; even if a character's actions and/or skills ( like Minmei's singing ) are a crucial plotdevice, a scriptwriter shouldn't allow this character to go out of hand.

In my example Minmei showed human weakness ( this is good, it gives her character, depth ), so Hikaru was used to set her straight ( slapping her , then telling her to sing for the sake of all humanity ) ; this resulted in Minmei getting it together again. Good story arc of these characters.

However, if there's no one to dampen Basara's annoying style - even if his motives are noble - then the narrative message is lost and the character works counterproductive, alienating a large portion of the audience.

Edited November 14, 2011 by knoted

[Castel]

heh, and they are the nice guys of the bunch. What does that make Isamu, Alto and Shin and Hibiki?

When you look at it, most of the main male characters in Macross are douches.

Hikaru, Basara, Shin and Isamu are people we definitely would call douchebags i think if we were to met them in real life.

Ehm, the point is rather ; even if a character's actions and/or skills ( like Minmei's singing ) are a crucial plotdevice, a scriptwriter shouldn't allow this character to go out of hand.

In my example Minmei showed human weakness ( this is good, it gives her character, depth ), so Hikaru was used to set her straight ( slapping her , then telling her to sing for the sake of all humanity ) ; this resulted in Minmei getting it together again. Good story arc of these characters.

However, if there's no one to dampen Basara's annoying style - even if his motives are noble - then the narrative message is lost and the character works counterproductive, alienating a large portion of the audience.

Oh i assure you that if i said that he is a douche it's really not because of a single slap.

He's immature and douchy a lot, A LOT of time. (remember when he's stuck with Misa in the city during an attack ? Just an example)

Movie Hikaru tends to be more like that than Tv-show Hikaru though.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Castel

[ff95gj]

so in other words, if Basara was a womanizing a-hole who solved all his problems with violence then everyone would be calling him the greatest character ever.

I think you miss the point...

It's about communicating with comrades, which Basara didn't care - he doesn't care about comrades nor communications.

Basara is not selfish nor evil (you don't regard an iPod to be evil do you?). He is self-centered to a point that it is irritating.

P.S. Yes if he solves things with violence it would make him a better character. It simply makes more sense when your spaceship is invaded, you rush out and fire your guns onto the enemies, but not fly amidst friendly fires and insist to sing there.

[knoted]

Oh i assure you that if i said that he is a douche it's really not because of a single slap.

He's immature and douchy a lot, A LOT of time. (remember when he's stuck with Misa in the city during an attack ? Just an example)

Movie Hikaru tends to be more like that than Tv-show Hikaru though.

True, but at least Hikaru's douchebag behaviour is there to drive the character dynamics, between him and Misa for example ; and we see, as episodes progress...this dynamic remolds and shapes the character relation between them ; in short, it's an element to serve the dynamic and draw in the audience.

Basara's behaviour seems to serve no narrative dynamic, thus in contrast to Hikaru's douchebag behavior..Basara's works counter productive...it throws the audience out of the character immersion.

[JB0]

so in other words, if Basara was a womanizing a-hole who solved all his problems with violence then everyone would be calling him the greatest character ever.

He kinda... DOES solve his problems with violence.

A speakerpod may be intended as a non-lethal projectile, but just because you're shooting people in the face with paintballs and beanbags doesn't mean you're being non-violent.

And I have SERIOUS doubts as to speakerpods being 100% effective in regards to their non-lethality.

If we fail to suspend reality far enough, it becomes fairly obvious that there will be some speakerpod-related fatalities. Especially as they're DESIGNED to penetrate the cockpit, thereby breaking atmospheric integrity and ensuring they're headed towards the pilot. And they're massive, in the literal sense, so they carry a LOT of momentum.

Even if fully-functional and striking their targets at optimum angles, they could easily be damaged in a live combat zone, rendering their deceleration or cockpit-sealing components non-functional, such that a speakerpod rips the cockpit open and likely severely injures the targeted pilot. Or just rendering a speakerpod leaky, so that a successfully sealed cockpit leaks out THROUGH THE SPEAKERPOD ITSELF.

Actually, even fully-functional, I find the lack of shrapnel in the punctured cockpit questionable at best.

Basically, what I'm saying is a speakerpod is just about the most dangerous non-lethal projectile you can make, actually MORE dangerous than most intended-lethal projectiles, and Basara is patently oblivious to everything that isn't his song if he can't see the inherent dangers in his preferred weapon.

[Bri]

True, but at least Hikaru's douchebag behaviour is there to drive the character dynamics, between him and Misa for example ; and we see, as episodes progress...this dynamic remolds and shapes the character relation between them ; in short, it's an element to serve the dynamic and draw in the audience.

Hikaru's jerk-like behavior is created as a result of the akward reopening of the triangle after the series got an extension. The writers manage to do a good job under the circumstances (some of the best episodes of the series really) but at the price of Hikaru's integrity and strength of personality. I don't see that as intentional character development. The movie version is alround less likeable imo.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Bri

[knoted]

but at the price of Hikaru's integrity and strength of personality. I don't see that as intentional character development.

Well, execution of the concept might not always be on par...but I do think it's there to serve a dynamic between characters, as their archetype roles transcend into character relationships ; which is the drama which draws in the audience. Cause & effect, chicken-egg...which way around doesn't really matter, but it works for the charm of the story.

Contrary to that, is Basara's arc, which is very much like an island, which pretty much goes against the workings of dynamic to draw in and immerse an audience.

Edited November 14, 2011 by knoted

[Keith]

Speaker pod related fatalities? Nope, not a single one, proof or it didn't happen.

As for Basara not carring for his "comrads," that's also grossly incorrect. Don't confuse his teasing of Mylene for not carring about anybody. Hell, aside from Honey, Bobby, or Barton, there was no one who didn't end up befriending Basara, or that he didn't wind up sticking his neck out for.

But let's put this scenario into the context of another Macross series. There was no weapon that the Protodevelin couldn't out manuever. A knock out brawl/fire ifght with them would have wound up in a loss on the U.N. Spacies side. Their extra-dimensional nature would easily overwhelm the Vajra, and the universe would have fallen to the Spiritia black hole. Bottom line, Basara "was" right the whole time, deal with it. The point of the series was that sometimes there's an enemy that will always outgun you, and you either have to compromise with them or die.

[JB0]

Speaker pod related fatalities? Nope, not a single one, proof or it didn't happen.

Reiteration of ignored main point:

He's not engaging in nonviolent solutions even if the speakerpods ARE demonstrably 100% safe.

Nonlethal weaponry is still weaponry. Nonfatal violence is still violence.

Defense of ridiculously-deflected subpoint:

Pity no one else in UN Spacey was allowed access to this miraculous failure-proof technology.

How did Basara know, for a fact, that it was literally impossible for a speakerpod to fail, and likewise impossible for secondary damage to cause unintended consequences? EVEN IF there were no fatalities, that doesn't actually make the very concept any less dangerous.

It is a projectile DESIGNED TO VIOLENTLY PENETRATE THE COCKPIT OF AN ARMORED SPACECRAFT. And one that carries an explicitly intended subfunction of rendering the pilot of said craft disoriented and confused in the middle of a live combat zone at that.

Even if you ignore the possibility of armor spalling, suppress all the shrapnel generated, you cannot guarantee that your projectile will successfully bypass all important subsystems to ensure life-support and navigation are not compromised in an alien vehicle of unknown design and layout, it's basic mode of operation renders it fundamentally unsafe.

I can personally think of several ways to accomplish the same task in a much less blatantly hazardous manner.

In keeping with the spirit of the show, I would have the speakerpods adhere to the OUTSIDE of the vehicle and transmit the music into the cockpit through vibration.

But I wouldn't call anything other than a non-contact, radio-based version anything remotely resembling safe. And as they exist in the show, the speakerpod is the single most dangerous way you could possibly implement the concept.

Basara is completely oblivious to anything but his song if he trusted a high-velocity cockpit-cracking bullet implicitly just because it happened to carry a boombox. REGARDLESS of documented fatalities.

Reinforcement of main point after sidetrack:

All of which is secondary to the fact that nonlethal violence is still violence.

There is nothing nonviolent about Basara.

[VF5SS]

I find the above post to be highly Freudian.

Sometimes a big red jet is just a big red jet.

Singing the song that will rock the galaxy.

And causing orgasms in female aliens :3

Edited November 14, 2011 by VF5SS

[ChronoReverse]

Especially as they're DESIGNED to penetrate the cockpit, thereby breaking atmospheric integrity and ensuring they're headed towards the pilot. And they're massive, in the literal sense, so they carry a LOT of momentum.

The initial premise is wrong.

Speaker Pod Gamma, the gigantic one, was designed to penetrate through but regular speaker pods just pierce and latch to the surface, working effectively to transmit to the cockpit even if it's the arm that was hit. So they're weren't designed to punch through the cockpit.

Of course, it COULD happen but clearly they're not as penetrating as even regular gunpod bullets (which a couple shots can explode the same fighters lol).

It is a projectile DESIGNED TO VIOLENTLY PENETRATE THE COCKPIT OF AN ARMORED SPACECRAFT. And one that carries an explicitly intended subfunction of rendering the pilot of said craft disoriented and confused in the middle of a live combat zone at that.

Moreover, he wasn't doing it to cause disorientation and confusion. He just wanted to sing to the aliens during early stages where he was using the speaker pods.

It was only until the sound boosters (which don't require contact) that their goal was to disorientate (well, Sound Force's anyway).

Edited November 14, 2011 by ChronoReverse

[JB0]

I thought they had a stock animation clip of the speaker pod protruding into the target's cockpit and gluing itself into place.

But my memory could be wrong, and I don't have it on-hand to check right now.

Whether or not confusion and disorientation was BASARA'S goal, it was his backers' goal and the design goal of the speakerpod.

I stand by that part of my statement regardless.

Speakerpod Gamma was a blatant sonic weapon. It was loud enough to actually throw people around the bridge.

But I don't think anyone cared, because it was so absurdly over-the-top.

[Gubaba]

I thought they had a stock animation clip of the speaker pod protruding into the target's cockpit and gluing itself into place.

But my memory could be wrong, and I don't have it on-hand to check right now.

No, you're right. It broke through the cockpit and released a sealant.

Speakerpod Gamma was a blatant sonic weapon. It was loud enough to actually throw people around the bridge.

But I don't think anyone cared, because it was so absurdly over-the-top.

That goes for a lot of Macross 7, I think...

[anime52k8]

DESIGNED TO VIOLENTLY PENETRATE...

Thread just got interesting

[nanoplasm]

That explanation is like Star Driver's explanation of how the libido can power a giant robot. So your saying M7 knew about the vajra?

Sounds like Star Driver is a "must watch".

[ChronoReverse]

No, you're right. It broke through the cockpit and released a sealant.

Yeah, in episode one it just hit the armor but I remember it penetrating to the cockpit and sealing itself too. Must be some kind of variable shock absorber.