Basara Nekki

[Gubaba]

Not sought them out, as I don't understand the language.

Is that why she was in the anime? As a hook for drama CDs?

Nah, it's just that the actress who played her was the host of the Macross radio show that was airing at the time (why her? Who knows...?) and so she was readily available for the radio dramas.

[Agent ONE]

Get's in the way during battle? BASARA SAVED THE ENTIRE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE!!

Yes that is the implication of the show, but the show's climax and resolution were SO LAME...

In SDFM music was a distraction and a piece of culture that the Zent/Mal. had never experienced. They froze with misunderstanding and questioned "wait, maybe I shouldn't destroy these people... They have things going on that could make my life better." M7 was nothing like that.. Magic song energy. I get irritated every time I have to think about it.

[Keith]

Yes that is the implication of the show, but the show's climax and resolution were SO LAME...

In SDFM music was a distraction and a piece of culture that the Zent/Mal. had never experienced. They froze with misunderstanding and questioned "wait, maybe I shouldn't destroy these people... They have things going on that could make my life better." M7 was nothing like that.. Magic song energy. I get irritated every time I have to think about it.

In SDFM, music moved the hearts of the 3 spies, who spread the influence through out the Britai Adoclas fleet, who decided to rebel and gave just enough intel & back-up for the Macross to survive Bodolza's attack. The distraction tactic was an aside to that, the real impact was when Minmay moved their hearts. Macross 7 is an evolution of tihs.

[Keith]

Oh god, the fact that you actually agree to that is just...wow. "Quiet, the Captain sanctions it" doesn't mean "Every single pilot except Gamlin approves of it." It means exactly what it says. Absence of evidence != evidence of absence.

And alright, fine. It's not even an issue and the argument that it IS is frankly stupid. Minmay participates with the military in any way very few times, and the only times she does, it's a deliberately planned action. The same is true for Ranka and Sheryl (the deliberate, planned bit). Basara, as JBO points out, runs out like a dumbass and gets in people's ways. So, no, it ISN'T an issue with music in Macross in general.

Basara's appearance in battle as pointed out "was" a planned action. Project-M was initiated by Max. He gathered Chiba, Ray, Basara, Akusho, & the VF19 Kai into place knowing full well that Basara would go out into battle and sing. Basara didn't happen into the cockpit, he didn't steal his Valkyrie, it was custom designed "for" him, and Ray had several years to teach him how to fly it. That is no less a sanctioned military act than Minmay's singing, and is much more than Ranka & Sheryl's.

Besides which, Bsara had pinpoint barriers, "if" he got inbetween Varuta firing on a pilot, and a pilot firing on Varuta, it's tot he pilot's benefit.

Keith, you have forgotten an entire story arc.

He set out on a journey to find the reason for why he sings, that much is clear. He had already been thinking about it for several episodes, when eventually the UN Spacy captured Sivil and she managed to escape not because of his singing (though it was hinted that it MAY have started to have an effect), but because Gigil accidentally switched on the Spiritia expulsion beam of his Valk when he got shot, which happened to hit Sivil's sphere. When he noticed he had failed to awaken Sivil after hundreds of attempts, he set off on a journey to find himself. He refused to sing for several episodes after that, even when the Protodeviln were right in his face because he wanted to "test" the effects of his song. The episode where he actually lost his voice completely was an earlier one, the one where they introduced the Song Energy convertors, and he got it back in the same episode.

Here is the episode where the pressure that had been building finally gets to Basara and he decides to leave for a while.

http://www.veoh.com/...93168963wHRPh5p

At the 2:50 mark -- In response to Ray asking him what was troubling him, Basara responds:

"How to put this... I had never considered the reason for why I sing. But I think I'm close to finding the answer now. I think that's it. I want to make sure."

Ray: "I'm looking forward to it."

Basara: "Well, see ya".

At the 19:30 mark -- Sivil awakes and escapes not because of Basara's song, but rather as a combined effect of his song and Spiritia beam from Gigil's mecha.

Basara still has no proof that his song has any effect whatsoever on anything, and so he set out to find that out. Finding Sivil may have been part of the reason for his leaving, but it was not the main one.

And there's your own defeat to the claim that Basara has no growth arc TY

[BeyondTheGrave]

In SDFM, music moved the hearts of the 3 spies, who spread the influence through out the Britai Adoclas fleet, who decided to rebel and gave just enough intel & back-up for the Macross to survive Bodolza's attack. The distraction tactic was an aside to that, the real impact was when Minmay moved their hearts. Macross 7 is an evolution of tihs.

Three spies that had no knowledge of culture and knew only war. I'm pretty sure the bridge bunnies help convert them. if you know what i mean.

Basara's appearance in battle as pointed out "was" a planned action. Project-M was initiated by Max. He gathered Chiba, Ray, Basara, Akusho, & the VF19 Kai into place knowing full well that Basara would go out into battle and sing. Basara didn't happen into the cockpit, he didn't steal his Valkyrie, it was custom designed "for" him, and Ray had several years to teach him how to fly it. That is no less a sanctioned military act than Minmay's singing, and is much more than Ranka & Sheryl's.

Besides which, Bsara had pinpoint barriers, "if" he got inbetween Varuta firing on a pilot, and a pilot firing on Varuta, it's tot he pilot's benefit.

And there's your own defeat to the claim that Basara has no growth arc TY

I'm pretty sure they didn't tell basara to jump in between a friendly and his target.

Also his intelligence level is comparable to a brick. His whole quest to find out why he sings is pointless in my opinion. He comes back with the same attitude as before.

Get's in the way during battle? BASARA SAVED THE ENTIRE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE!!

So you've forgotten about his interference during Max's last ditch effort to stop the protodelvin.

man, when did everyone suddenly become Robotech fans in here.

You're enjoying this aren't you.

You gain strength and power from this discussion.

Edited October 4, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[Agent ONE]

In SDFM, music moved the hearts of the 3 spies, who spread the influence through out the Britai Adoclas fleet, who decided to rebel and gave just enough intel & back-up for the Macross to survive Bodolza's attack. The distraction tactic was an aside to that, the real impact was when Minmay moved their hearts. Macross 7 is an evolution of tihs.

Thats like saying heroin addiction is the evolution of a good cheeseburger.

[anime52k8]

You're enjoying this aren't you.

You gain strength and power from this discussion.

MUAHAHAH!!!

Edited October 4, 2011 by anime52k8

[Keith]

Three spies that had no knowledge of culture and knew only war. I'm pretty sure the bridge bunnies help convert them. if you know what i mean.

What did they bring back with them? What spread unrest through out Britai's fleet?

I'm pretty sure they didn't tell basara to jump in between a friendly and his target.

Also his intelligence level is comparable to a brick. His whole quest to find out why he sings is pointless in my opinion. He comes back with the same attitude as before.

He came back with stronger resolve, and more hot-blood.

So you've forgotten about his interference during Max's last ditch effort to stop the protodelvin.

Max gave up and decided to throw reaction missiles, then had them thrown right back in his face. Basara to the rescue!!

[ff95gj]

He did save the universe. But this is just because the story and universe revolve around him; he never tried to figure out "how". He simply insisted to sing.

But suddenly singing can solve every problem. It projected beams, behaved as a shield, it chased away monsters. It simply worked with every crisis. Then Basara became a hero. (If you replace Basara with an iPod, it may also work.)

Hey, if panting and ranting can save the universe, I would be a hero too.

[Reïvaj]

He did save the universe. But this is just because the story and universe revolve around him; he never tried to figure out "how". He simply insisted to sing.

But suddenly singing can solve every problem. It projected beams, behaved as a shield, it chased away monsters. It simply worked with every crisis. Then Basara became a hero. (If you replace Basara with an iPod, it may also work.)

Hey, if panting and ranting can save the universe, I would be a hero too.

[JB0]

Max gave up and decided to throw reaction missiles, then had them thrown right back in his face. Basara to the rescue!!

Even a genius can accidentally use a timed fuse instead of an impact fuse sometimes.

[RyuRoots]

And Roy is a womanizing drunk douchebag but he follows the heroic archetypes to the letter. Hence why he is so loved. Same thing with many action heroes: they all have douchey and obnoxious behaviours or characteristics but they follow their script.

Basara is a fictional character that just takes a dump on what we have grown to expect to see the hero archetype do.

Basara has his douchey “character flaws”, but instead of going “sorry everyone to have bothered your personal sensitivities with my way of thinking, I’ll shut up now and go chuck those evil mother*&/%& with lead as is expected of me”, he goes “LISTEN TO MY SONG… AGAIN until I get it right”.

Such fervent hate for something, like the one the fictional Mr Basara generates over and over, means that what has been regarded as a deep unquestionable truth has been sullied.

*sigh* No. He just has an obnoxious, unlikable personality. That's all there is to it. You're just trying and failing to sound smart. I don't mind a different main character. I welcome change if it's done well; that last bit is the key. "if it's done well". Basara wasn't at all. You can disagree with that and that's fine, but you just look ridiculous trying to claim that anyone who doesn't like him because of change. It reeks of the sort of logic a hipster would use to defend their favorite indie film.

[VFTF1]

Thats like saying heroin addiction is the evolution of a good cheeseburger.

As one fellow body builder to another, I ask you: Is there ever such a thing as a "good cheeseburger" ? ;-)

Pete

(ps - this is not off topic, because by attacking the premise of the metaphor, I have therefore also attacked the metaphor. I would expand on that, but duties call...)

[Killer Robot]

In SDFM, music moved the hearts of the 3 spies, who spread the influence through out the Britai Adoclas fleet, who decided to rebel and gave just enough intel & back-up for the Macross to survive Bodolza's attack. The distraction tactic was an aside to that, the real impact was when Minmay moved their hearts. Macross 7 is an evolution of tihs.

I thought that once, when I first saw just a little Macross 7. It didn't really survive a full view of the series. While Plus, 7, and Frontier all explore the application of music and culture beyond the simple winning over and one-time combat distraction effect of the original, Macross 7 really takes it the furthest in having outright "music as magic power" stuff, with it built into shields and offensive weapons and healing spells and what have you. It's a fair step beyond "music plus hypnotic mind control tricks" or "music plus alien symbiote to interface with alien communications" and it really took so much center stage as to make any "but -really- it's about understanding and making peace with your enemy" message feel really second place.

He did save the universe. But this is just because the story and universe revolve around him; he never tried to figure out "how". He simply insisted to sing.

But suddenly singing can solve every problem. It projected beams, behaved as a shield, it chased away monsters. It simply worked with every crisis. Then Basara became a hero. (If you replace Basara with an iPod, it may also work.)

Hey, if panting and ranting can save the universe, I would be a hero too.

This really is more the key of it. Basara persisting and continuing to sing started to work not because of any real wider understanding or improved skill on his part, but because some distance into the series the initial enemies he tried singing on to no effect were replaced, through no foresight of his own, by magic space monsters that were vulnerable only to music. That wasn't the only thing that changed, but it was still pretty representative of Basara's story arc as a whole.

When your well-meaning but useless idea applied to every situation works finally due to the off chance that an appropriate situation arises, that does not make you an awesome hero that has his stuff together. It just makes you this guy:

Again though, I see the initial intent. In the movie I can see it more clearly. While I'm not as fond of Basara's presentation in Dynamite, I can see more of it there too. In the TV show though, I have to respond not to the Basara that was in the writers' heads, but the Basara that's on the screen. And that Basara was a clumsy underdeveloped plot device that I was told to love rather than convinced to love.

[Keith]

Note: Throwing around the term "magic" isn't going to boost your argument any. Everything in 7 has the same technological Protoculture (and now Vajra)/Overtech base that the rest of the series have.

[Bri]

I thought this was a thread on Basara's personality, not on judging Macross 7.

Anyhow, I have a lot of sympathy for the character. A lovable grumpy, humourless jerk with a heart of gold in the mold of Indiana Jones. Also makes for a nice straight man in the more comedic parts of M7. Basara is in his twenties so we can skip all the coming-of-age and teen angst. Nice change of pace when compared to the usual male archetypes we see in modern anime.

[Killer Robot]

Note: Throwing around the term "magic" isn't going to boost your argument any. Everything in 7 has the same technological Protoculture (and now Vajra)/Overtech base that the rest of the series have.

Case 1: giant alien warrior race turns out to be humanlike beings engineered into soldier forms and culturally repressed to think of nothing outside warfare. Learning of the very existence of civilian life, especially through the symbol of a certain popular actress and singer, inspires them with hesitation and self-doubt, opening the way to mutual understanding and peace. Conflict is purely physical and psychological, with one side simply being unnaturally stunted in their cultural development. More lasting themes are that communication itself cannot make peace while some dream of warfare and domination.

Case 2: attempts to create the perfect artificial singing idol are complicated when the stolen military tech used absorb the emotional responses drawn from a human subject for the programming, leading to an obsessed AI with the ability to create short-term hypnotic effects through sound and light shows, for the length of said shows. Said human subject is able to present a countereffect to someone close to her, enabling him to destroy the AI. Conflict is a little more out there, though as fantastic elements go that breed of mental manipulation is not that crazy. Themes are of humans being honest with themselves and not letting personal conflicts get lastingly between them.

Case 3: hive-minded yet seemingly brainless aliens turn out to actually just be a host species of a distributed organism consisting fold-networked microbes. A network of mentally linked cyborgs rigs a war to let them hijack and control said alien network, while two human singers who have been "infected" as hosts of said aliens are able to establish communications with music as an initial method. Conflict is physical, complicated by espionage and intrigue, and ends when communication is established and the human aggressors are located and stopped. The shared understandings are more of the commonality between an actual hive intelligence, and humans who are individuals which use culture and language to create a more fragile common identity. Instant fold-based communications are a big factor here, but seem to be a particular trait of an alien species related to known FTL technologies, and are exploitable by humans only through using those organisms and the crystals they apparently create. Lasting themes are of imposing one's will on others vs. finding the will of others and reaching consensus with it.

Case 4: engineered superweapons are, through no intent or expectation of their creators, possessed by incorporeal beings from another dimension. These beings must feed on "spiritia" drained from humans to turn them into lifeless husks or lastingly mind-controlled zombies. This energy can be used to create powerful attacks and barriers, which themselves are immune to anything but matching "song energy attacks" created by humans using this same spirit energy within themselves. Conflict is largely one of clashing psychic energies, and ends through teaching the aliens to make their own psychic energy and not drain it from humans any more. Important elements here are literal spirit powers that are both possessed by incorporeal possessing entities from another dimension, and which exist in latent form within the human spirit and can be activated specifically by music. Lasting lesson here is that if you're Basara you just keep doing what you're doing without listening to anyone else, and if you're not Basara you listen to him since he was right all along.

Okay, the last sentence there was a bit snarky. But my point here is that one of these things is not like the others, and while none of it is hard sci-fi there is only one that really jumps off the charts in calling for the word "magic" to be applied, one that makes a really distant leap away from the scope of "robots and spaceships and aliens on the surface, communication and culture as the underlying method." An exposition episode about how the Protodeviln came to be doesn't really make it a neat thematic fit rather than a distant outlier from the central themes, and Basara and his handling are as much a part of this as the giant space monsters.

But I agree, this thread is about Basara and not Macross 7 itself: really I can take the giant space monsters and magic powers in that Macross 7 was aimed for a younger audience than even the original, much like I can accept its more episodic nature and more brightly color-coded super hero mecha approach. It's just that even within this more fantastic approach, Basara was a pretty flat "with attitude!" character who only really saved the day because the plot visibly steered his perfect opposition into his blindly thrown fist. And what upsets me is that there were still solid ideas behind him, he just was written really unconvincingly.

[Gubaba]

But I agree, this thread is about Basara and not Macross 7 itself: really I can take the giant space monsters and magic powers in that Macross 7 was aimed for a younger audience than even the original, much like I can accept its more episodic nature and more brightly color-coded super hero mecha approach. It's just that even within this more fantastic approach, Basara was a pretty flat "with attitude!" character who only really saved the day because the plot visibly steered his perfect opposition into his blindly thrown fist. And what upsets me is that there were still solid ideas behind him, he just was written really unconvincingly.

Does Max have a "color"? Does Milia?

Edited October 4, 2011 by Gubaba

[Killer Robot]

Does Max have a "color"? Does Milia?

Seriously? Seriously?

SDFM: all heroic pilots, named and nameless, fly the same mass production craft. Some subtypes have more (seldom used) head lasers than others, plus upgraded avionics or whatever that you'll only ever hear of if you dig out some spec sheets and read them. Some known aces and squadron leaders get recognizable custom paint colors, sometimes just highlights and tail designs, sometimes just a body color replacement. What individual super robot action exists is reserved for the main battleship.

Macross 7: Named pilots easily distinguished by each having a more or less unique (at least when Gamlin's wingmen get taken out of the picture) special mecha sharply differentiated from and superior to what all the cannon fodder use. These include not just whole models of craft with special properties both existing at the beginning and introduced over the course of the series, but individual signature weapons, integrated custom bodywork and full color schemes, mecha faces, and speaker boobs.

This part isn't even a value judgement, as I can totally get into a good super robot show. Even if Macross 7 is a favorite, it's hard to deny it represents a sharp swing back to super robot team show tropes when compared to the original series which, in its day, was novel largely for how it moved largely away from them. What is a little more of a judgement call but seems clear enough to me is that the intent seemed to be visual splash, kid appeal, and ease of following all the weekly fights and rock music without necessarily having to get into the plotline. Which is even cool, as long as the plotline's solid for those of us who watch for that.

Please, if you think I'm wrong, make a case rather than a snarky comment.

[justvinnie]

I love M7 and Basara Nekki. Back in grad school, I was in a depressive bout because I was unsure of what I was doing with my life. I thought cancer research would be personally fulfilling, but it wasn't what I truly wanted and was passionate about. M7 helped me through the depression, and I changed majors and am now doing what I am truly passionate about. I understand why people hate M7 and Basara, but I disagree with each and everyone of them.

[Keith]

Spiritia is based in the concept of wave motion. All living things produce energy, different types of energy have different attributes. Anima spirtia has the virtue of being a perpetual form that not only renews itself, but renews energy in other beings it touches.

The EVIL series are biological representations of the mechanical technology that the Protoculture already engineered. We now know that said technology was based on a naturally occuring biological manifestation, i.e. the Vajra. Fold technology, barrier shields, and reaction cannons were all biologically recreated in the EVIL series, and later on a mass-producton scale with whatever the AFOS was. This isn't a concept exclusive to Macross, other sci-fi & anime has touched on bio-mecha for years, both before and after. Take a look at Farscape, a fairly popular sci-fi series, and one which was based highly in bio-technology. The Vorlons & Shadows in Babylon 5 being the higher species of that universe also used bio-technology. Even the recent BSG adopted the concept that bio beats mechanical in the technological hierarchy.

What the Sound Energy Converter/boosters do is convert that bio-energy for mechanical use and amplify it into the beams shown. We also know now that this ability was likely based in Vajra technology as the Vajra have a working bio-internet that's fully compatable with protoculture/human based mechanical counterparts. Hell, we even see this in Macross Plus with the BDI/BCS interface both used for the YF-21 & connection Myung with Sharon. Coincidence that ti required a bio-neural chip to make Sharon self aware?

Cry space monsters & magic all you want, but the fictional tech base is there, deal with it.

Also, super robot shows are distinguished by bright colored robots, they're distinguished by hot-blood completely replacing pilot skill, and of course ywlling out attacks replacing any need to control a robot. This is not true for Macross 7, as even the guitar controls are just an alternate interface for a standard flight control scheme, and still require piloting skill to use.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Keith

[Reïvaj]

Even though I like M7 and even Basara, I have to admit Killer Robot has so far a better point IMO. But don’t you guys forget this is anime, and “magic” will necessarily be present in some degree, also depending of its target –in this case a much younger than most of us target- and its time.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Even the recent BSG adopted the concept that bio beats mechanical in the technological hierarchy.

Which is one of those sci-fi tropes that is really, really ridiculous. But in any case, I think that instead of throwing around a lot of arguments, perhaps we should objectively stack Basara up against the other main Macross male protagonists.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Spiritia is based in the concept of wave motion. All living things produce energy, different types of energy have different attributes. Anima spirtia has the virtue of being a perpetual form that not only renews itself, but renews energy in other beings it touches.

The EVIL series are biological representations of the mechanical technology that the Protoculture already engineered. We now know that said technology was based on a naturally occuring biological manifestation, i.e. the Vajra. Fold technology, barrier shields, and reaction cannons were all biologically recreated in the EVIL series, and later on a mass-producton scale with whatever the AFOS was. This isn't a concept exclusive to Macross, other sci-fi & anime has touched on bio-mecha for years, both before and after. Take a look at Farscape, a fairly popular sci-fi series, and one which was based highly in bio-technology. The Vorlons & Shadows in Babylon 5 being the higher species of that universe also used bio-technology. Even the recent BSG adopted the concept that bio beats mechanical in the technological hierarchy.

What the Sound Energy Converter/boosters do is convert that bio-energy for mechanical use and amplify it into the beams shown. We also know now that this ability was likely based in Vajra technology as the Vajra have a working bio-internet that's fully compatable with protoculture/human based mechanical counterparts. Hell, we even see this in Macross Plus with the BDI/BCS interface both used for the YF-21 & connection Myung with Sharon. Coincidence that ti required a bio-neural chip to make Sharon self aware?

Cry space monsters & magic all you want, but the fictional tech base is there, deal with it.

That explanation is like Star Driver's explanation of how the libido can power a giant robot. So your saying M7 knew about the vajra?

Also, super robot shows are distinguished by bright colored robots, they're distinguished by hot-blood completely replacing pilot skill, and of course ywlling out attacks replacing any need to control a robot. This is not true for Macross 7, as even the guitar controls are just an alternate interface for a standard flight control scheme, and still require piloting skill to use.

Basara is not hot-blooded. Too many questions arise for how he controls it.

Edited October 5, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[Keith]

We know that the U.N. Spacy discovered the Vajra in 2040, and we know that Mao & Grace were studying the Vajra for long enough to publish studies on them in 2047. It's not improbable to concieve that some of Chiba's research "may" have been influence by Vajra study, though it could be the opposite with Chiba's research opening up the possability of Vajra study. Regardless, since we know the Protoculture based their technology around the Vajra, and that human/Protocultur tech is fully compatble with the Vajra tha the bases of how they work are similar. It's nothing so ambiguous as libido power or spiral energy. And we do know that Basara's control scheme is based in an alteration of a standard control scheme. It's close enough for Mylene to pick it up with her knowledge of valkyrie cockpits.

Which is one of those sci-fi tropes that is really, really ridiculous. But in any case, I think that instead of throwing around a lot of arguments, perhaps we should objectively stack Basara up against the other main Macross male protagonists.

It's not so ridiculous. Most of the technology we have now is a mechanical representation of things that occur in nature, the only way we have of recreating things. The theory is that technology has to inevitably evolve back to a biological state as it becomes more advanced. For example, a computer is a rudamentary recreation of a brain. Eventuallly design will demand that computers will become more brain like as the technology advances.

[Radd]

I like Basara. Still, I agree he could have been more developed. Not in the "emo whingey stage" kind of way, but a bit more background on how he came to have his conviction and beliefs would have been nice.

I disagree with the comments stating the UN Spacey was made a pariah for Basara to be the hero. Macross has never depicted the UN Spacey as a lockstep hive-mind. Basara was supported by elements within the UN Spacey since before the opening credits of episode 1, and he only gains more support along the way. There's disagreements within the UN Spacey, from the pilots all the way up to command, and that's been a Macross staple since SDFM.

I also disagree with Basara being like Lynn Kaifun. Kaifun was a hypocrite who, at times, seemed to enjoy creating conflict. (Gotta give that he did develop more by the end of SDFM than his Robotech equivalent.)

I would still like to see the show get a "DYRL" treatment someday ( but maybe an OVA redo instead of a single movie). I disliked the use of song energy for beams and shields, but loved the way it depicts having a long term effect on people as the show progresses. It wasn't an instantaneous change, none of the Protodevlin were even phased at first, unlike the Zentraedi. Which made sense since they weren't playing the "race made for war encounters culture for the first time" angle. Syvil, Gigil, Gamlin, Fire Bomber's popularity all changed gradually. I think the effect on the rest of the Protodevlin (and their forces) could have been handled better, more like the progression seen in SDFM where it slowly moved through the ranks, rather than hinging on a handful of key characters.

But, getting off topic. Basara himself, as a character? I like him. Wish he was more developed but I like his ideals and determination. The way the show presented things, tho, I can understand how he rubs people the wrong way.

[Renato]

But in any case, I think that instead of throwing around a lot of arguments, perhaps we should objectively stack Basara up against the other main Macross male protagonists.

OK let's.

Hikaru: "OMIGOD two girls are in love with me and I can't decide, I hope that one of those girls can maneuver the SDF-1 skillfully enough to penetrate the alien fortress while the other one sings a song to confuse them into immobility while I plunge uselessly into the Earth. Hope they make a movie about me where I look cooler."

Isamu: "Argh, this computer is in love with me, my ex-girlfriend is going out with my ex-best-friend whom for some reason we cannot remind is a rapist, maybe if I plunge uselessly into the ground my ex-girlfriend will revive me with her song so I can blow up the mainframe".

Shin: "I *think* two girls are in love with me... Oh no, it's the anti-UN! Thank god Roy is here! OK, time to....PLUNGE USELESSLY INTO THE SEA! WHEEEE!"

Alto: "OMIGOD two girls are in love with me. Er... I wish I was a pilot, for no reason. Oh, I am now, good. Doesn't matter, 'cos those two girls seem to be doing well in taking care of the alien threat by themselves. Ho-hum..."

Hibiki: "I'm a conspiracy theorist".

Somehow, I don't see a bunch of heroism or even usefulness coming from any male protagonist in this franchise, except for Basara.

[VF5SS]

Hey don't forget VF-X pilot. He gets to rescue an entire singing group and all he has to say is

"..."

[Renato]

Hey don't forget VF-X pilot. He gets to rescue an entire singing group and all he has to say is

"..."

Well, he doesn't even have a face, so... But yeah, point taken. VF-X Pilot and Basara forever.

[VF5SS]

I guess Aegis Focker did some cool stuff too.

Anyone with shades like these is a total broseph brostar.

[Renato]

I like Basara. Still, I agree he could have been more developed. Not in the "emo whingey stage" kind of way, but a bit more background on how he came to have his conviction and beliefs would have been nice.

I disagree with the comments stating the UN Spacey was made a pariah for Basara to be the hero. Macross has never depicted the UN Spacey as a lockstep hive-mind. Basara was supported by elements within the UN Spacey since before the opening credits of episode 1, and he only gains more support along the way. There's disagreements within the UN Spacey, from the pilots all the way up to command, and that's been a Macross staple since SDFM.

I also disagree with Basara being like Lynn Kaifun. Kaifun was a hypocrite who, at times, seemed to enjoy creating conflict. (Gotta give that he did develop more by the end of SDFM than his Robotech equivalent.)

I would still like to see the show get a "DYRL" treatment someday ( but maybe an OVA redo instead of a single movie). I disliked the use of song energy for beams and shields, but loved the way it depicts having a long term effect on people as the show progresses. It wasn't an instantaneous change, none of the Protodevlin were even phased at first, unlike the Zentraedi. Which made sense since they weren't playing the "race made for war encounters culture for the first time" angle. Syvil, Gigil, Gamlin, Fire Bomber's popularity all changed gradually. I think the effect on the rest of the Protodevlin (and their forces) could have been handled better, more like the progression seen in SDFM where it slowly moved through the ranks, rather than hinging on a handful of key characters.

But, getting off topic. Basara himself, as a character? I like him. Wish he was more developed but I like his ideals and determination. The way the show presented things, tho, I can understand how he rubs people the wrong way.

I agree with all of this, I think we have pretty much the same opinions on the character and show.

[VF5SS]

And give Shin some credit. He did fly recklessly and unarmed into the maw of a gigantic death flower that only wanted to kill everything.

[treatment]

OK let's.

Hikaru: "OMIGOD two girls are in love with me and I can't decide, I hope that one of those girls can maneuver the SDF-1 skillfully enough to penetrate the alien fortress while the other one sings a song to confuse them into immobility while I plunge uselessly into the Earth. Hope they make a movie about me where I look cooler."

Isamu: "Argh, this computer is in love with me, my ex-girlfriend is going out with my ex-best-friend whom for some reason we cannot remind is a rapist, maybe if I plunge uselessly into the ground my ex-girlfriend will revive me with her song so I can blow up the mainframe".

Shin: "I *think* two girls are in love with me... Oh no, it's the anti-UN! Thank god Roy is here! OK, time to....PLUNGE USELESSLY INTO THE SEA! WHEEEE!"

Alto: "OMIGOD two girls are in love with me. Er... I wish I was a pilot, for no reason. Oh, I am now, good. Doesn't matter, 'cos those two girls seem to be doing well in taking care of the alien threat by themselves. Ho-hum..."

Hibiki: "I'm a conspiracy theorist".

Somehow, I don't see a bunch of heroism or even usefulness coming from any male protagonist in this franchise, except for Basara.

roflmao!

those were really funny stuff.

until you blind yourself with your Basara-love.

If you really wanna be serious about the hero-thing, tho, here's how you should do it:

Hikaru (TV): kamikaze rescue of Misa in Alaska Base.

Hikaru (DYRL): kamikaze assassination of Bodolza.

Hibiki (II): kamikaze rescue (or kidnapping) of Ishtar. then Sylvie kamikaze rescues him. Oy, Vey!

Isamu (Plus tv/movie): kamikaze death-dive to destroy Sharon.

Shin: Kamikaze death-dive to spring Sara.

vs

Basara: Whale Bukake

so, you know, there's that kamikaze-pattern among the lead-dudes of Macross-franchise.

except for Basara.

As to why I didn't include Alto. well, I got way too bored watching Frontier that I actually thought Basara was alot more interesting than him and the stupid shipping-wars by the Frontier-fans. ;

Edited October 6, 2011 by treatment

[Freiflug88]

Add this to Basara's crazy exploits as well:

Edited October 6, 2011 by Freiflug88

[Renato]

roflmao!

those were really funny stuff.

until you blind yourself with your Basara-love.

If you really wanna be serious about the hero-thing, tho, here's how you should do it:

Hikaru (TV): kamikaze rescue of Misa in Alaska Base.

Hikaru (DYRL): kamikaze assassination of Bodolza.

Hibiki (II): kamikaze rescue (or kidnapping) of Ishtar. then Sylvie kamikaze rescues him. Oy, Vey!

Isamu (Plus tv/movie): kamikaze death-dive to destroy Sharon.

Shin: Kamikaze death-dive to spring Sara.

vs

Basara: Whale Bukake

so, you know, there's that kamikaze-pattern among the lead-dudes of Macross-franchise.

except for Basara.

As to why I didn't include Alto. well, I got way too bored watching Frontier that I actually thought Basara was alot more interesting than him and the stupid shipping-wars by the Frontier-fans. ;

But Basara kamikazes into battle every episode...