If certain American toy companies had the Macross liscense.

[ff95gj]

I agree with EXO. Macross is not popular enough in the west, so I don't expect that the major western companies are interested to put in their resources.

If you are a western company and have a respectable budget, would you rather invest money to engineer a (yet another) Optimus Prime toy, a premium model finished with gimmicks and top grade furnishing, or try to make a Macross valk look right?

Yamato doesn't have top-notched QC. Some of their products are literally broken. They may have ridiculus price. But I can see their efforts in their dedication to achieve lineart accuracy and produce high quality model-like toys. Personally I thank for their work (with my hard-earned money too). But don't get me wrong, I can imagine the frustration too when one pays a hefty amount to get a broken toy and I deem it totally justifiable to complain them. Just that as a Macross fan, they do help me to realize my dream in my childhood (IF they release Spartan and Phalanx), to have a collection of lineart accurate Macross mechs.

Speaking of broken toys, I've got multiple broken Bandai toys out of the box (and I keep on buying in the same series... Cuz overall I am satisfied and see it improving). I have broken shoulders for 1/60 VF-1, but that's at least months afterwards.

[chen]

All toys break no matter who makes it because these are built on production lines and quality is fluid. As for an American company having the Macross license, it wouldn't be unheard of since there are a lot of Japanese licenses that are owned by American companies. The question should be could you expect a Bandai DX or Yamato 1/60 coming out of a company like Hasbro and I think the answer is no. First off you would need tie-ins like a tv show, movie, or video game because Hasbro or whoever isn't going to rely on nostalgia from 30 somethings to fuel a line so instead they will cater to the younger, wider audience to sell product. Hasbro COULD design and build high end "adult collectibles" but it's just not part of the nature of the company. In the end it doesn't matter what franchise it is, if it doesn't sell a toy company has no problem letting it go or die off till fan interest picks up again and right now I don't think the audience is large enough in North America for a company like Hasbro to spend the R&D, and production cost money. What they could do is import toys and stick a Hasbro label on it like they do the Transformers Masterpiece line, it would just be called the "Macross Masterpiece Line" or something.

[SpaceCowboy]

Agreed - as it stands now Hasbro would not make the toys. But you hit the nail on the head - they would want tie-ins to tv-shows, movies etc. Where to get that - oh, I know, how about the last 30 years of various forms of Macross that have been produced, and bringing them over to the states! Or better yet, license a completely new Macross for western audiences. Hasbro makes other forms of entertainment to sell their toys. The entire Transformers series, all the animated series, all the movies, were made as a giant multi-decade commercial to sell the toys. If Hasbro got the Macross license, I think you would see something similar happen with it, at least once, to see what the waters were like. Then, if Macross was shown not to have widespread appeal, yeah, they'd probably mothball it.

[anime52k8]

Agreed - as it stands now Hasbro would not make the toys. But you hit the nail on the head - they would want tie-ins to tv-shows, movies etc. Where to get that - oh, I know, how about the last 30 years of various forms of Macross that have been produced, and bringing them over to the states! Or better yet, license a completely new Macross for western audiences. Hasbro makes other forms of entertainment to sell their toys. The entire Transformers series, all the animated series, all the movies, were made as a giant multi-decade commercial to sell the toys. If Hasbro got the Macross license, I think you would see something similar happen with it, at least once, to see what the waters were like. Then, if Macross was shown not to have widespread appeal, yeah, they'd probably mothball it.

Except most Macross productions would not be effective vehicles to market toys if they were brought over to the US. think about it; Every production outside of Macross 7 has been too short, too mature and lacking in sufficient numbers unique marketable robots to be shown on network television as kids cartoon shows. Macross 7 possibly could have done well had it been released in the late 90's/early 2000's like when gundam was being pushed in the US, but even then it would have been at most a blip on the radar with a couple years of seeing toys on the shelf before being quickly forgotten by the general public. Simple fact of the matter is that anime rarely does well in the US outside of niche markets, especially one's like Macross.

And as for Macross produced by an American company for western audiences; at that point it wouldn't be Macross any more. It wouldn't have the same creative staff or focus on the same themes and it probably wouldn't have mecha designs from the likes of kawamori or Miyataki. Really what you'd have would be Robotech only not shitty and completely mishandled.

And of course this all assumes that Harmony gold never existed and Macross in the US was always handled by a company with some level of competency in terms of marketing and utilizing their licensed properties. If the rights to Macross suddenly became available to a US company there would be even less draw for them to do anything with it. Macross would fair even worse on US television today that it would have 10 years ago if you tried to simply bring it over from Japan; and there's absolutely Zero incentive for Hasbro to attempt building a brand out of an obscure Japanese property like Macross, when at best all it will do is compete directly with their existing ridiculously successful transforming robot franchise.

And another thing --- The Yamato QC is crap and there toys are so fragile they explode if you look at them hyperbole in this thread is kind of hilarious. Have some Yamato products had fragility issues? Yes, but Yamato is also on the cutting edge of toy design and are pushing the limits of what can be done using injection molded plastic with every design the release. Hasbro/Takara has significantly greater resourced devoted to designing much simpler toys and guess what? They still end up releasing toys with design flaws that leave them prone to breaking. And in terms of Actual quality control (i.e. parts being properly molded, paint apps being applied correctly and the toy being assembled the way they where intended to be) Yamato has been far more reliable compared to Has-tak.

And as for the Masterpiece line: Are you honestly saying that Takara MP releases are More robust, better engineered toys with tighter QC than Yamato releases from the same time frame?

Edited September 24, 2011 by anime52k8

[ae_productions]

Except most Macross productions would not be effective vehicles to market toys if they were brought over to the US. think about it; Every production outside of Macross 7 has been too short, too mature and lacking in sufficient numbers unique marketable robots to be shown on network television as kids cartoon shows. Macross 7 possibly could have done well had it been released in the late 90's/early 2000's like when gundam was being pushed in the US, but even then it would have at most been at most a blip on the radar with a couple years of seeing toys on the shelf before being quickly forgotten by the general public. Simple fact of the matter is that anime rarely does well in the US outside of niche markets, especially one's like Macross.

And as for Macross produced by an American company for western audiences; at that point it wouldn't be Macross any more. It wouldn't have the same creative staff or focus on the same themes and it probably wouldn't have mecha designs from the likes of kawamori or Miyataki. Really what you'd have would be Robotech only not shitty and completely mishandled.

And of course this all assumes that Harmony gold never existed and Macross in the US was always handled by a company with some level of competency in terms of marketing and utilizing their licensed properties. If the rights to Macross suddenly became available to a US company there would be even less draw for them to do anything with it. Macross would fair even worse on US television today that it would have 10 years ago if you tried to simply bring it over from Japan; and there's absolutely Zero incentive for Hasbro to attempt building a brand out of an obscure Japanese property like Macross, when at best all it will do is compete directly with there existing ridiculously successful transforming robot franchise.

And another thing --- The Yamato QC is crap and there toys are so fragile they explode if you look at them hyperbole in this thread is kind of hilarious. Have some Yamato products had fragility issues? Yes, but Yamato is also on the cutting edge of toy design and are pushing the limits of what can be done using injection molded plastic with every design the release. Hasbro/Takara has significantly greater resourced devoted to designing much simpler toys and guess what? They still end up releasing toys with design flaws that leave them prone to breaking. And it terms of Actual quality control (i.e. parts being properly molded, paint apps being applied correctly and the toy being assembled the way they where intended to be) Yamato has been far more reliable compared to Has-tak.

And as for the Masterpiece line: Are you honestly saying that Takara MP releases are More robust, better engineered toys with tighter QC than Yamato releases from the same time frame?

I have had several of the v2 1:60's break on me. They are BEAUTIFUL toys, but fragile. Some of them broke before the box was even opened! But that's new Yamato.

I NEVER had a single 1:48 break on me. And I play with mine ALL THE TIME.

BanDai makes good stuff, but they too have put out their share of crap.

I think pretty much ALL toy companies have done this at one point or another. Others do it all the time. I won't name names.

I miss some of the durability of the 1980 Valks. Sure they weren't perfect toys either, but I was NEVER afraid to handle one. And hoenstly, most of mine are still around and kickin'!

Someday, we'll get detail, engineering AND durability. At least, I hope.

On an ADHD thought...

Kids today are more infatuated with video games than they are physical toys. We may be one of the last generations to enjoy these plastic goodies, which is a damn shame.

Video games are cool and all, but I'd rather play with a Valk any day of the week.

[ff95gj]

I believe it is a trade off; you want durability, you get chunkiness. It's a combo.

Everyone has his own spot in the balance; personally I think the 1/48 VF-1's have done it right.

I am not sure what are the future for plastic, physical toys. When I go to the toy shop arcades, I see people in the majority of 25-40 year group.

Either the kids are not interested in plastic toys anymore, or they cannot afford it at all. Given the high yen and weak dollars (alas, Hong Kong dollars is linked to US dollars!), toys are two-fold as expensive as it was three years ago.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I think macross needs a reboot in the west under a different name.

makross would be good.

The thing I like a lot about macross plus is that it feels like a show that could have worked without it being tied to the original SDFM show. It could have been a generic story with robots in it without any SDF1 or any need to be linked to the world of the tv series.

Kawamori should figure out a way to reboot the whole universe in the same way that bandai did for gundam with gundam wing which was popular to people who had not followed the universal century storyline/universe/timeline of that franchise.

Call it something different, make the vehicles more modern. Maybe have some new technology that causes machines to learn what their pilots need and become AI drones without a need for manual control? think of this as the evolution of what the zentradi used in DYRL for their ships but just without the "brain in the jar" interface? the cameras viewing the eyes, the sensors monitoring of the pilot heart rate, the history of that character's actions under certain battle situations etc all count to how the machine can adopt pilot behavior and be a temporary replacement when needed? That is, machines become partners like the little MAGs in the Phantasy Star Online games.

Also add a new energy source that is limited so it gives people a reason to compete and fight for it. Obviously SK had some crazy ideas for macross 7 which I think could work if they didn't make it seem so mysterious like what happened in macross zero. In the future humans will use aliens as batteries to power their mechs (think like what the machines did to humans in "the matrix") and this controversial method of powering war machines brings up the issue of alien's rights and groups are formed around it. (like animal rights groups in the real world - the machines would represent the exploitation of this energy for monetary gain at the expense of the aliens and their planetary resources)

One side would reason that it's fine: after all, we eat food as humans and never care about the dead animals or plants we kill to live? So what difference is there for machines to feed off alien animal life forms?

Since humans need the machines and aliens need dead humans (by having them fight in wars to kill each other off and lessen their numbers) both sides serve to bring a balance so neither of them is totally dominant. (explaining the never ending wars just like in the gundam shows lol)

Then after this new form of macross is created and music is used for propaganda purposes to encourage people to join the militay (pop idol are all fake except for some humans who resist AI contol over everything and become indie using music to awaken people to the evil) .....then they can start bringing out new toys from the new macross universe based on the characters and machines those heroes use.

Just call it "makross" so you can say it has nothing to do with the harmony gold company who wants to desperately take over all macross works.

But do make sure to have the main character be an older guy who is already experienced in life a little bit. Don't aim it at teens but go for an older crowd who is mostly in it for action.

I'm pretty sure the fans of battletech, mechwarrior videogames, and robotech nerds will eat this up. To be honest with you, what I would want for it to be is something like gundam a bit more (every week is a week in a 1 year war) and they focus a bit more on technology instead of the mystical stuff. (ie macross 7 and macross zero where the people flying on a rock just makes us ask questions like "why humans don't just use magic instead of technology?" lol)

Now granted psychic powers are like a magic thingy in gundam shows, but we seem to accept that as a "real" power more easily for some reason. Star wars is basically wizards/shamans (force powers) vs warriors/cowboys (technology) so maybe that's why people are ok with that? ..But just not ok with macross 7 and its "singing to space whales/demons to communicate to them" idea? To me if they focus on technology and explain the mystical stuff so it is like a science it should be more popular in the west. People like explanations for how things work. The Jedi Knights may have lifted rocks with their minds in star wars, but we are told what "the force" is, (n o mystey) so what I like is if they try to do this for macross as well.

Mah-KuRoss is the name for the show.

Make that the name of an alien god from a long time ago. And then release it to the west as "Makross". The people who discover the ship have been granted the power of the god to bring stability/balance to an amoral universe. The show would appeal to those who like gundam with all the politics, religion, and fighting amongst groups that those shows are known for. It wouldn't be centred only on the music alone but feature it in the background like macross plus did. (ie it just happens to be awakening of people from their dream state and brings them back to consciousness and unlocks a part of their memories which they had when kids or something like that)

The toys are going to not have to clash with whatever has come before in the original macross universe so as to avoid the harmony gold problem. So this would require a new universe being made and having a different world to what we have seen before. This shouldn't be a problem for people who never recognised macross as SDFM in the first place, (the international market dubs it robotech) so it's not like you are losing a lot of power when changing the name/title to something else. It could be like macross plus was: a OVA show that could survive on its own without "macross" in the name.

It does need a distinct feel to it that it can call its own though, so that people can respect the universe as a seperate thing by itself despite borrowing elements from original macross. Like have ancient civilisations similar to the protoculture but maybe humans already have records of them and go all "jurassic park" on the remains of the beings and this is what causes huge advancemens in techology rather than say, having "inherited a ship" and then reverse engineering it like the original macross.

Edited September 23, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[ErikElvis]

The west absolutely positively does not need to touch macross in any way shape or form. Thats when you get "the shadow chronicles" or whatever that garbage was. And I have no problem with the original Robotech.

[Reïvaj]

The west absolutely positively does not need to touch macross in any way shape or form. Thats when you get "the shadow chronicles" or whatever that garbage was. And I have no problem with the original Robotech.

I agree.

[SpaceCowboy]

Let's not put "the west" in the same bucket as an underfunded studio mismanaged by the same studio that has screwed up the Macross license everywhere but Japan for the last 20 some odd years.

[Matrix Soul]

How is it that Harmony Gold can afford the Macross license all these years and have not done a thing with it?

[Reïvaj]

How is it that Harmony Gold can afford the Macross license all these years and have not done a thing with it?

I guess they just bought the licence back in the eighties and it has already paid off.

[Matrix Soul]

I was under the impression that it is not something you can just buy outright, at least in the comic book industry, once you stop paying the licensing fee, you stop having the right to use it to sell stuff.

[SpaceCowboy]

It all depends on the contract they worked out. They could have just signed a really good deal to have exclusive rights to it for a really long time, with options to renew or rights of first refusal. It really just depends on how good the negotiators were on each side of the fence really.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

If a company in the states made Macross toys, I would imagine it would go something like this:

"Hey, guys! Now that we have the license for this really cool line of transforming toys, lets test the water to see how well they sell by releasing a line of these toys that DON'T transform, but we'll make them have a totally unrealistic "spread eagle" pose with maybe 5 points of articulation."

And then when these toys are sitting on the shelves because no one is buying them they'll just scrap any future plans with the license and call it a total failure and blame it on lack on interest.

I mean seriously, who the hell buys a non-transforming version of a transforming character? I'm pointing the finger at (or giving the finger to) you, Hasbro and Toynami!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

get the company behind the astro plan toys to make them for america.

[Mog]

If Hasbro had Macross Licence we would never see anything in the stores.

Actually, if Hasbro had the license, we'd have something like 20 Kakizaki VF-1A's, 2 Cannon Fodders, and 1 VF-1S Roy in each case assortment.

Or worse, we'd have so many pegwarmers clogging the shelves that we'd never see the later cases/waves of the Max and Milia VF-1J's and Regulds.

And you can forget about ever seeing a Low-Viz out in an actual brick-and-mortar store.

Hasbro can do some things right. But their distribution and case assortments have much, MUCH to be desired.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Actually, if Hasbro had the license, we'd have something like 20 Kakizaki VF-1A's, 2 Cannon Fodders, and 1 VF-1S Roy in each case assortment.

Or worse, we'd have so many pegwarmers clogging the shelves that we'd never see the later cases/waves of the Max and Milia VF-1J's and Regulds.

And you can forget about ever seeing a Low-Viz out in an actual brick-and-mortar store.

Hasbro can do some things right. But their distribution and case assortments have much, MUCH to be desired.

Thing is though, compared to Toynami, Hasbro would actually have product on shelves imho. If a Robotech movie EVER ever gets off the ground I would rather have Hasbro have the license than Toynami.

[ps99042]

If a company in the states made Macross toys, I would imagine it would go something like this:

"Hey, guys! Now that we have the license for this really cool line of transforming toys, lets test the water to see how well they sell by releasing a line of these toys that DON'T transform, but we'll make them have a totally unrealistic "spread eagle" pose with maybe 5 points of articulation."

And then when these toys are sitting on the shelves because no one is buying them they'll just scrap any future plans with the license and call it a total failure and blame it on lack on interest.

I mean seriously, who the hell buys a non-transforming version of a transforming character? I'm pointing the finger at (or giving the finger to) you, Hasbro and Toynami!

To be fair though, you've gotta give that same finger to Kaiyodo, Bandai, and Yamato since they all made non-transforming Macross toys.

[EXO]

Actually, if Hasbro had the license, we'd have something like 20 Kakizaki VF-1A's, 2 Cannon Fodders, and 1 VF-1S Roy in each case assortment.

LOL!!!

Thing is though, compared to Toynami, Hasbro would actually have product on shelves imho. If a Robotech movie EVER ever gets off the ground I would rather have Hasbro have the license than Toynami.

Yeah, that's a given. They couldn't even make the toys for the Voltron Show. The big corporations won't trust the license with HG or Toynami. Hopefully they're ready to step out of the way.

[Shaorin]

Actually, if Hasbro had the license, we'd have something like 20 Kakizaki VF-1A's, 2 Cannon Fodders, and 1 VF-1S Roy in each case assortment.

Or worse, we'd have so many pegwarmers clogging the shelves that we'd never see the later cases/waves of the Max and Milia VF-1J's and Regulds.

And you can forget about ever seeing a Low-Viz out in an actual brick-and-mortar store.

Hasbro can do some things right. But their distribution and case assortments have much, MUCH to be desired.

Amen to that!!

i occasionally take the time to browse through the TRANS FORMERS at my local stores,

and OCCASIONALLY happen across a halfway engaging item... never before having to sift through PLENTY of shelf/peg-warming CRAP, though.

i guess i'm just not eight years old anymore... it seems to take an awful lot of pretty damned impressive transforming robot

to really light my ignition these days, and for that, it just doesn't seem to get any more damned impressive than modern YAMATO MACROSS products...

Edited September 27, 2011 by Shaorin

[ae_productions]

How is it that Harmony Gold can afford the Macross license all these years and have not done a thing with it?

I applied for work at HG many years ago. Back when I lived in LA.

They actually handle several different businesses. Anime is only one of them. They also do independent film distribution and real estate. And, Robotech isn't the only IP they own. So, even during a dryspell, which Robotech fans are now experiencing now... again , HG has other sources of revenue coming in that keeps them afloat.

[big F]

Amen to that!!

i occasionally take the time to browse through the TRANS FORMERS at my local stores,

and OCCASIONALLY happen across a halfway engaging item... never before having to sift through PLENTY of shelf/peg-warming CRAP, though.

i guess i'm just not eight years old anymore... it seems to take an awful lot of pretty damned impressive transforming robot

to really light my ignition these days, and for that, it just doesn't seem to get any more damned impressive than modern YAMATO MACROSS products...

I just see them and think how much better they would look after I detail them and add all the extra paint you see on the back of the packs.

I know that the "hero" versions they use for the photo shoot for the boxes are usually metal instead of plastic and therefore better quality but I just think they look so much better. Hasbro also do this on the Alternators, although I guess that they just use the Binaltech instead.

[anime52k8]

I just see them and think how much better they would look after I detail them and add all the extra paint you see on the back of the packs.

I know that the "hero" versions they use for the photo shoot for the boxes are usually metal instead of plastic and therefore better quality but I just think they look so much better. Hasbro also do this on the Alternators, although I guess that they just use the Binaltech instead.

the "toy" on the back of the box isn't metal, it's typically a resin prototype hand painted and then gone over with a ridiculous number of Photoshop filters.

Anyways, I love transformers. Transformers are some of the best toys on US retail shelves, especially for their price points. And TBH, I find Transformers engineering to be more interesting and engaging than most Macross products. Valkyrie's from Bandai or Yamato are certainly more intricately designed and detailed, but I frankly find more novelty and entrainment in the mechanics of a $20 voyager than a $200 YF-21. That's not to say I don't love Macross toys either; My VF's are among my favorite collectables. But I love them because they've amazing to look at and have on a shelf where you can admire all the little details of their design. Transformers on the other hand are something I can sit on the couch and casually play with.

So yeah, two completely different things that I enjoy for completely different reasons, and I they stay that way for as long as I'm into collecting.