Disintegrating 1/60 YF-19 Joints

[Kanedas Bike]

I'd really challenge the "fragility" of the v.2 VF-1. I own about 9 of them, and while my first two needed attention to the shoulders, the others have been just great, and I handle those quite a bit. Back on topic, it appears that whatever Yamato is doing, they are being more self aware of the QC issues, unlike when these YF-19s were first coming out. If they didn't have QC inspectors then, they may have one now, as their toys have had much better quality than before. I'm sure it's also a challenge for someone in a factory to see possible issues with a toy that has so many mechanical parts and internal mechanisms. While this isn't an excuse for Yamato, it seems they are evolving at a very decent rate. We've gone from the 1/72 Macross plus items, to the v.1 VF-1, to the 1/48s, to the 1/60 line in roughly ten years. Not bad, considering their engineering of such complicated toys seems to be better than Bandai, a well established toy manufacturer for how long?

I have to admit that I've never had any serious issues with Yamato toys, and the few that I have had, were fixable, and in comparison, not as bad as some other brands I've had.

Although I generally pose my "toys" and leave them (those that I open anyway) I had to quote this for truth.

Not excusing Yamato for any one or two "failures", but it's all about knowing the product, where it comes from and setting expectations accordingly - especially as Jasconc stated, Yamato as a company has evolved at an extraordinary rate, with each iteration getting better than the last. They've earned my repeat business.

-b.

[easnoddy]

I like Yamato's toys from an asthetic quality, but as far as materials go, they are shite. I can't believe they have been around this long in the transformable toy market using the materials they do. Hasbro uses much better quality in their toys produced in much greater quantities at a fraction of the price. We're just so desperate for Macross products.

Of course...Bandai matched the Yamato quality issues when they decided to make the VF-25, but much of their problems were design issues.

Nobody used crappier materials than Toynami on the Legioss/Alphas though.

[Kanedas Bike]

I like Yamato's toys from an asthetic quality, but as far as materials go, they are shite. I can't believe they have been around this long in the transformable toy market using the materials they do. Hasbro uses much better quality in their toys produced in much greater quantities at a fraction of the price. We're just so desperate for Macross products.

Of course...Bandai matched the Yamato quality issues when they decided to make the VF-25, but much of their problems were design issues.

Nobody used crappier materials than Toynami on the Legioss/Alphas though.

Yamato has been making Macross items for what, 12 years or so? And how long has Hasbro been making toys?

Not making excuses but Yamato is barely out of the garage kit stage and some of these comparisons aren't exactly fair.

-b.

[Reïvaj]

Yamato has been making Macross items for what, 12 years or so? And how long has Hasbro been making toys?

Not making excuses but Yamato is barely out of the garage kit stage and some of these comparisons aren't exactly fair.

-b.

I agree. And even more, if it’s true that there are so many much better toy companies around why aren’t they making better Macross toys? I think we have to be grateful to Yamato for giving us –the niche market we represent- what we want so much. Could their products be better? Probably yes, but they’re still the best we’ve ever had.

It’s not the same with Bandai, for they’ve got the rights for an ongoing franchise and they’re a big old toy company, but I’m grateful nevertheless.

[Reïvaj]

Someone who agrees with my “Sad Plastic” theory, although this time using a more physical explanation:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=35663&view=findpost&p=930732

[vlenhoff]

Man Yamato needs to make these parts available to us the users/costumers. I have all 1st editions of the YF-19 and Macross zero valks. I just transformed the yf-19 two days ago and it felt ok. I have transformed the 19 like a total of 10 times since its release and now it is going to disintegrate I have not had an issue yet, but I would like have repair parts which are stronger just in case. This is scary as hell.

This makes me nearly angry, and it makes me not want to get anything else for good. Thanks Graham as always, and I appreciate your honesty. I hate to even make a negative comment on your site, but man... I hope my Valks last for a long time.

Edited October 4, 2011 by vlenhoff

[Shaorin]

I agree. And even more, if it’s true that there are so many much better toy companies around why aren’t they making better Macross toys? I think we have to be grateful to Yamato for giving us –the niche market we represent- what we want so much. Could their products be better? Probably yes, but they’re still the best we’ve ever had.

-BY FAR. AMEN.

please, stop the bellyaching, people.

these are HIGHLY advanced precision replicas, most assuredly NOT your atypical "Toy"

as with any engineering this close to bleeding-edge, there are bound to be bugs.

YAMATO can do well to improve the "Shakedown" phase in their development process,

but in engineering work this complex, one can seldom anticipate every possible problem factor that just might happen to come along,

unless you just happen to be a multi-billion dollar government aerospace contractor, that is.

even they, however, often make serious mistakes. considerable resources and all.

still, no matter how bug-free these "precision replicas" may ever hope to get,

they will never be "Toys" in any of the conventional senses,

and simply will never be meant to be Glad-handed anything like the average kid's toy.

it is just simply impossible to make something like these VF replicas to the precise tolerances that they are designed to,

and then expect them to handle the rough-housing that your typical, child-safe TRANS FORMER is specifically designed to endure...

Edited October 4, 2011 by Shaorin

[vlenhoff]

Pardon me Shaorin, but I do not handle these valks like normal toys. Heck I don't even handle my normal toys like toys. In fact I have never broken any of my macross collectibles. I truly like these valks and I treasure them for what they are: works of art.

The main point here is to get replacement parts for our "precious" collectibles. Disintegration of joints is the subject here, so pleeeease reserve the sermon for another thread.

Thank you for understanding,

in advance

[mcpaz]

Pardon me Shaorin, but I do not handle these valks like normal toys. Heck I don't even handle my normal toys like toys. In fact I have never broken any of my macross collectibles. I truly like these valks and I treasure them for what they are: works of art.

The main point here is to get replacement parts for our "precious" collectibles. Disintegration of joints is the subject here, so pleeeease reserve the sermon for another thread.

Thank you for understanding,

in advance

Hi everyone,

add me to the list. I begun reading this thread a couple of weeks ago, and finally today I had the chance to go to my beloved YF-19 (yep, it's been my favourite mecha since the very first time I saw Mac+). I hadn't transformed it for a while (since may, I think), and... damn, right arm broke at the shoulder joint. Man, it broke to pieces. I'm trying to repair it with super glue, 'cos I was waiting for a 1/60 yf-19 for years, and finally bought a 1st version. Damn, I love this valk!

BUT, in this point, let me state a couple of things:

1) Yeah, Yamato has done by far the best replicas in the market, so their products are the best replicas. Period.

2) Lots of manpower are dedicated to these valks, and that's one of the reasons they're so expensive. Accepted and OK. That's why I'm buying Yamato and not Bandai.

3) I treat ALL of my valks and transformers (and legos, and all my stuff) with extreme care. What I'm not doing is shut my mouth and don't complain because a 200$ toy/replica/howeveryouwannacallit breaks itself.

Yamato has a point to improve: QC. I think it's our major complaint. Yamato please, take note and apply some action plan to improve.

It's not going to stop us MWers buying Yamato valks, but it's very likely we begin to think twice before we do.

Graham, what are we supposed to do now? Is it possible to get replacements?

Anyway, I'm keeping now high hopes for the YF-19 v3, and maybe buy a v4 yf-19 without v3 flaws (...).

I hope I'm the last one to report this problem.

Regards people,

Manu

Edited October 5, 2011 by mcpaz

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I recently broke a little fast pack thruster nozzle on my 1/60 vf-1 v2 hikaru vf-1s because I took the cover off too quickly. Yamato should have made that nozzle soft rubber plastic imo. (like gunpod accessory hands)

I got to superglue that back now. Playing with these is risky even if they are mostly tough.

[alchemo]

I recently broke a little fast pack thruster nozzle on my 1/60 vf-1 v2 hikaru vf-1s because I took the cover off too quickly. Yamato should have made that nozzle soft rubber plastic imo. (like gunpod accessory hands)

I got to superglue that back now. Playing with these is risky even if they are mostly tough.

Sadly all platics disintegrate with time. Soft Rubber, or more often PVC, lasts for less then 3 years. those "soft rubber nozzel" on my Bandai Metal Composite RX-78 begins releasing oil and the paint had changed into a copperish, sticky mess. I am considering replacing all of them with plastic custom parts.

Back to the topic:

IMO, the upper arms of the YF-19(and the VF-19) are slim and had quite a few joints packed together(the VF-19 has a simplified mechanism), which means thinner parts and more stress. Inevitably more easily broken, either by brute force or by the stress of the joints themselfs over time. Maybe the part should have been made with metal(but then it might pose more stress to the shoulder?)

My concern is if the later release have a different material as I have the repackaged YF-19, Bird of Prey, Double Nuts, and the 25 Ann(which seems less durable then the rests).

Edited October 6, 2011 by alchemo

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I have a bird of prey but I don't transform it much. Might try a transformation next time and see what it can take. Hopefully

there is no mysterious cracking from lack of loving it and touching it everyday like graham's toy.

As for the thruster nozzle thing, it is the one that sticks out at the very bottom and sometimes will get beheaded if you are not careful, which I wasn't. This breakage wasn't due to the plastic just degrading. This was me taking off the cover and the part that sticks out being caught on the fastpack cover's hole as I wrenched the cover off and the fast pack cover came off very suddenly. The force of my own pulling was what took the poor little nozzle with it lol

I prefer smaller and finer details like headlaser and little stuff to go with a more flexible plastic personally. In my experience this adds durability for finer small bits that you know have to be made thin.

Bandai chunky monkey vf-17 for instance has big chunky headlasers, (which is one way of making something "strong") but they are also made of flexible plastic that won't warp. Its stiff enough that it will always stay straight but flexible enough that you could let it drop to the floor and you don't worry that the head laser cracks like it would if it had been made of normal plastic that would crack under shock. What you want is for small fine details to be shock resistent so they can absorb the shock by flexing a little bit under stress. I'm glad yamato used more flexbilie material on the head laser area of vf-22. (and also made it detachable so you could transform it more safely. for example if you ever dropped it on its back you never have to worry about the laser cracking even if you used a harder plastc headlaser instead of the soft one, because you were wise and detached the laser off beforehand)

This is good durability design. Personally I would have liked nozzle to be detachable at least for that one area on the vf-1.

Edited October 6, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Shaorin]

Sadly all platics disintegrate with time. Soft Rubber, or more often PVC, lasts for less then 3 years.

Nonsense. i have plenty of PVC Anime figurines that are now 5, 10, and even more than ten years old by now,

and none of them show any signs of chemical breakdown to date.

hell, my MegaHouse Haruhi Suzumiya Mikuru Asahina 10" doll was made in 2007,

from PVC, ABS and POM. that makes her going on five years old, come next year.

i just took this photo; does it really look at all like she's even beginning to chemically disintegrate?

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll310/shaorin-chan/My%20Little%20Mikuru/SweetAngelMikuru2.jpg

the name of our woes here can be contracted into two letters; Q.C. Quality Control.

YAMATO was once able to keep costs down by employing a low-grade chinese factory to produce their products,

a factory with obviously low employee skill standards, and low general standards for the quality of their work.

raw plastic base chemistry was often poorly and amateurishly implemented, entire stages of parts manufacture and product assembly were often

lazily and incompetently carried out, and Q.C. inspection on all stages of production, right on through to the final finished product,

were quite obviously minimal to non-existent.

today, YAMATO, as a corporation, as grown immensely beyond what they were in their early years,

and as such, employs a completely different factory, with operating standards on a completely different plateau

then the bare-bones, elementary level factory they once did business with.

unfortunately, as would be expected, this current contractor factory appears to charge a solid premium for their services, which gets rather thoroughly passed along

to us MACROSS consumers. sadly, this, compounded with the current state of the world economy, means future YAMATO Valk products

priced well above what a large segment of us western MACROSS fans seem to be prepared to pay.

sad to say, but it seems that the MACROSS Valk "Gravy Train" is now over for many of us...

Edited October 8, 2011 by Shaorin

[alchemo]

Nonsense? fine, I made the remarks based on what happened to PVC parts of toys that I own, and other people's comments. and it is a general understanding that plastic, as an organic matter, disintegrate eventually, depending on their composition and the condition they are exposed to.

And my comment on PVC parts was not referring to the material used in Yamato's VF-19.

Back on the subject, I'm not sure if factories that mold and assemble toys are also responsible for making the materials, or they just get the plastics in the form of little beads.

I noticed and admired the improvement Yamato had made in the last decade, and for that reason I bought over 30 VFs, and some other mecha toys produced by Yamato in the last 3 years. Maybe I'm lucky that most of my purchase are from the new factory, I certainly hope so.

Edited October 8, 2011 by alchemo

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Just because plastic is made from hydrocarbons and thus technically organic, doesn't mean it biodegrades. If it does, it is doing it at a rate that will see all of us long in our graves first.

Why do you think recycling is such a big deal?

[alchemo]

OK, I will rephrase my comment as "all plastics deteriorate". everyone happy?

[Shaorin]

well, think about TUPPERWARE, particularly from the 1970's production runs, which can still be readily found at your local thrift to this very day;

this stuff is going on 40+ years old now, mostly made of the same type of plastic, from one end of the line to the other,

and can regularly be found, to this very day, in very much like-new condition, with no obvious signs of chemical breakdown.

if there is one plastic product out there that proves beyond question that plastics CAN, IN FACT, be made to last decades, if not longer,

then is is most definitely TUPPERWARE...

Edited October 8, 2011 by Shaorin

[Macross_Fanboy]

Ah, both of mine are fine, floppiness and everything!

[anime52k8]

well, think about TUPPERWARE, particularly from the 1970's production runs, which can still be readily found at your local thrift to this very day;

this stuff is going on 40+ years old now, mostly made of the same type of plastic, from one end of the line to the other,

and can regularly be found, to this very day, in very much like-new condition, with no obvious signs of chemical breakdown.

if there is one plastic product out there that proves beyond question that plastics CAN, IN FACT, be made to last decades, if not longer,

then is is most definitely TUPPERWARE...

But most Tupperware products are made of Polypropylene and Low-density polyethylene. Where talking about Plasticized PVC (i.e. the stuff used to make soft "rubber" hoses and tires on toys.) Plasticized PVC will inevitably dry out, become brittle and crack; typically after about 5~10 years.

Edited October 10, 2011 by anime52k8

[Graham]

Nonsense. i have plenty of PVC Anime figurines that are now 5, 10, and even more than ten years old by now,

and none of them show any signs of chemical breakdown to date.

Several of my CM's Macross figures, most notibly the standing and Q-Rau cockpit Milia figures are now very tacky and sticky to the touch. In fact the paint on the Standing Milia figure has started coming off (adhering to) the WQ-rau it was leaning against

Graham

[Old Man]

Several of my CM's Macross figures, most notibly the standing and Q-Rau cockpit Milia figures are now very tacky and sticky to the touch. In fact the paint on the Standing Milia figure has started coming off (adhering to) the WQ-rau it was leaning against

Graham

Wow...that's good to know. I still have mine in the box, but I was planning on having her posed next to her Q-rau as well.

[bluemax151]

Several of my CM's Macross figures, most notibly the standing and Q-Rau cockpit Milia figures are now very tacky and sticky to the touch. In fact the paint on the Standing Milia figure has started coming off (adhering to) the WQ-rau it was leaning against

Graham

Now you've got me paranoid. I just handled all of mine a couple weeks ago when I packed them away and they were fine but now I'm going to have this nagging feeling I own a lot of the old Gundam MSiA figures so obviously I've heard about PVC breakdown before but I've never experienced it personally (knocks on wood). On the bright side I made a deal with myself a while ago not to buy anymore PVCs specifically for this reason so I guess this is reinforcement for that.

[flayn80]

I already suffered the same kind of breakage 2 years back. Managed to fix it using super glue. I have moved away from yamato's valks since then. Very over-priced but lousy material used!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well I just found out something I didn't know before about the yamato 1/60 version 2 vf-1, while super gluing the fast pack nozzle that rubs against the opening of the cover of the fast pack. (I broke this off when opening the fast pack cover earlier)

You can actually pull this out with your fingers before opening the fast pack cover so it doesn't get beheaded.

Just wiggle it out while pulling outwards and it should slide out eventually. I recommend always doing this if you ever feel the need to look at the guts of the fast packs and don't want to break that nozzle that sticks its head out..

1. when removing the fast pack coverplate, slide it off first

2. when putting the fast pack coverplate back on, slide it back in last.

It's never really safe to remove the fast pack coverplate without accidentally snapping this nozzle off, otherwise.

And it's never really safe to put it back on, while you have the nozzle slid in beforehand.

As for soft materials ok maybe it will go dry, but whatever material that hasbro/takaratomy uses on certain parts like say Transformers HFTD Tomahawk's rotorblades, is still preferable to me for fine features like the head laser weapons on valks. Even taking into account that they might just crack later on. The reason is because I find that the harder plastic will crack more early due to no flexibility or shock resistance if you lay it down in a way that puts pressure on it.

Edited October 14, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[kung flu]

Very worrying to hear the toys breaking, i own a 1st release YF 19 and a 1st release VF 0s, I bought them when they first came out. So far I've had no problems at all, though i've never transformed my VF0s before, but my YF19 has been displayed in batroid mode for a few years. I think it was only last year when i transformed it back to display it as a fighter and it as remained in that mode ever since. I'm gonna have to check them after reading this thread.

I was thinking maybe the climate in some countries affect the plastic, my country isn't really that warm so maybe that is a factor.

Edited October 15, 2011 by kung flu

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Several of my CM's Macross figures, most notibly the standing and Q-Rau cockpit Milia figures are now very tacky and sticky to the touch. In fact the paint on the Standing Milia figure has started coming off (adhering to) the WQ-rau it was leaning against

Graham

I can confirm this is happening to mine too. I bought the Milia figure from CMS for use with the Yamato 1/60 Qrau. And I just touched it and it's starting to get sticky to the touch. Grrr...

[alchemo]

Very worrying to hear the toys breaking, i own a 1st release YF 19 and a 1st release VF 0s, I bought them when they first came out. So far I've had no problems at all, though i've never transformed my VF0s before, but my YF19 has been displayed in batroid mode for a few years. I think it was only last year when i transformed it back to display it as a fighter and it as remained in that mode ever since. I'm gonna have to check them after reading this thread.

I was thinking maybe the climate in some countries affect the plastic, my country isn't really that warm so maybe that is a factor.

Probably yes, here in the sub-tropic it seems to happen eariler.

[mcpaz]

Hi folks,

due to the fact I'm one of the affected right-arm self-breakage, can anybody prettyprettyplease tell me if there's a chance to get a right arm replacement? If so, what's the procedure to follow?

Kind regards and thanks in advance.

[pud333]

Well, there goes my plans on buying a 19 anytime soon. Now that I will probably wait for a new 19 altogether, should I wait for a new YF-21 to have a new matching set even though I haven't heard anything wrong with the 21? Hmm...

[mcpaz]

Well, there goes my plans on buying a 19 anytime soon. Now that I will probably wait for a new 19 altogether, should I wait for a new YF-21 to have a new matching set even though I haven't heard anything wrong with the 21? Hmm...

Hi, the 21 is a must. Period. Together with the VF-11B, I highly recommend 'em both. Even though my experience with the lil'ol'19, both valks belong to a whole different league.

You should take a look how sleek they look in fighter mode. 100% anime acurate. Yamato does not state it, but whooshes and barrel rolls are allowed and supported without parts fallin'. Me pretty sure 'bout that.

[pud333]

Hi, the 21 is a must. Period. Together with the VF-11B, I highly recommend 'em both. Even though my experience with the lil'ol'19, both valks belong to a whole different league.

You should take a look how sleek they look in fighter mode. 100% anime acurate. Yamato does not state it, but whooshes and barrel rolls are allowed and supported without parts fallin'. Me pretty sure 'bout that.

Thanks. I've been looking at reviews online, and I just rewatched Plus again to get myself hyped. Yeah, I think the 21 is something I should just buy. And heck, if they release a better 21 later on, I'll just get that too, haha. The fighter mode is the money mode, as far as I'm concerned. I really like how it looks when you fold the wings in a bit. And barrel rolls? That would be awesome. When I had the SV-51, I couldn't do barrel rolls due to the one floppy wing I had. Yeah, the 21 is definitely my next valk. As for the 11B, I definitely have to pick one of those up, but I kind of like the color on the 11C better.

[Loop]

I can confirm this is happening to mine too. I bought the Milia figure from CMS for use with the Yamato 1/60 Qrau. And I just touched it and it's starting to get sticky to the touch. Grrr...

Hey guys, are these molded in color or painted? I had the same thing happen to my kaiyodo Rei evangelion unit. I though it was more to do eith the manufacture not putting enough catalyst in the paint.

I could be wrong, it it more seems to be the paint than anything.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Looks painted to me. I looked at the edges of her shoulder armor thing which looks like the paint is fading off. (starting to see a bit of white underneath)

Anyway I checked my yf-19 "double nuts", and it's ok.

I had it transformed into fighter mode on display for a long time. Not sure if that matters or not.

[kung flu]

I've checked my first edition VF 0S and YF19, there's no damage and no stress marks. Considering I've not played or transformed them that often, that maybe why they're still ok. I have alot of Gundam models too, some over 10 years old, they seem ok. My CM Miria figure is fine too.

As I mentioned earlier i think the climate in certain countires may have played a part in the plastic breaking. If i remember correctly, Graham lives in Hong Kong, which can be very warm and sunny, Scotland is always dull and not warm at all. Either that or my toys came from a good batch (hopefully) and the broken ones came from a batch when someone was slacking off at the factory.

So with any luck, I hope i don't encounter any of the problems.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

my milia figure has not broken or anything but I found it to be sticky. I thought it was a strange claim so I checked mine and was surprised that it was "sweating". I haven't had any of my toys yellow though except for the banpresto valk lol