Disintegrating 1/60 YF-19 Joints

[valhary]

officially worried when I get home check mine

[CF18]

Another data point would be the release date - Dec 2006 or June 2007 with fold booster? My 2007 unit was OK when I boxed it last year.

Graham you had 2x 2006 units when writing the original review. Is the second one still fine?

Edited September 20, 2011 by CF18

[bowman]

holy mother of god

Graham you better report this to Yamato that several members has had this disintegrated arms falling off. Even more a reason for Yamato to release a new 1/60 YF-19 with improved arm design and using better materials. Perhaps this is some kind of a curse for tearing the YF-21's arm in one of the fight scenes.

[GU-11]

This doesn't/shouldn't apply to the renewal version and the DN & BoP...right?

[Jasonc]

Hmmm, I hope the one I sold holds out strong. I never messed with it, so it should be good, but even after I sell stuff, I hope that the new owner is able to enjoy it as much as I did. I'd hate to hear that something I sold disintegrated at the joints. I sold mine in hopes of, a new version, but now I really hope that happens. It's sad to hear this, but since this item is a bit dated, what would Yamato really be able to do about it at this point. Hopefully, if anything, they are, and continue to use better, more durable materials.

[Lolicon]

I transformed my YF-19 this past summer for the first time in a few years, having kept it in fighter mode all these years. One arm broke off completely and the other had major cracking on the upper arm endoskeletal structure and was extremely loose, exactly like the pics Graham posted.

After some emergency surgery, I was able to reattach both arms securely, "welding" the sides of the internal plastic parts shut using super glue. There's also a generous amount of super glue inside, in and around the screw chamber (if that makes any sense). Arms are stronger now and retain full movement and functionality.

Even though I was able to fix it myself, for a toy that costs $200, I shouldn't have to.

[Kyp Durron]

Wow...definitely waiting for a V2 YF-19 now.

-Kyp

[Shaorin]

you may have noticed that all tre breakage points so far are made of the same, "Waxy" looking grey plastic.

i theorize that the plastic looks that way in the first place because it is some sort of poor, inferior grade...

at any rate, very much the wrong grade to be using anywhere on such a toy... certainly not on any key structural components, at least.

in sum, YAMATO's Chinese factory was jacking off again, as they were so damned fond of doing before YAMATO finally went in

and laid down the law a couple years ago. too damned bad they didn't do it sooner...

Edited September 21, 2011 by Shaorin

[Pierre]

I thought the internal parts of the yf -19 arms were pom plastic

[Reïvaj]

What I’ve noticed is that it looks like all the breaks have happened to toys that have been left in one single mode without being transformed for years, so my theory is it’s not about bad plastic but about loneliness. They’re not faulty toys, they’re sad toys

I’d give nothing but love to a V.2 YF-19

[Chronocidal]

Youch. That's pretty much exactly what my YF-19 shoulders did, but Graham's break is a bit more severe. The main thing I see though is that the screw shaft just completely sheared off the half of the shoulder it was attached to, just like mine did. Really just a terrible design.

I transformed my YF-19 this past summer for the first time in a few years, having kept it in fighter mode all these years. One arm broke off completely and the other had major cracking on the upper arm endoskeletal structure and was extremely loose, exactly like the pics Graham posted.

After some emergency surgery, I was able to reattach both arms securely, "welding" the sides of the internal plastic parts shut using super glue. There's also a generous amount of super glue inside, in and around the screw chamber (if that makes any sense). Arms are stronger now and retain full movement and functionality.

I had to repair mine the same way, but my shoulders never got enough tension back to support any weight. Essentially, in order to fix this, you have to fuse the entire upper shoulder together with glue around the pivot.

Given the time the YF-19 came out, it really doesn't surprise me that the materials seem very similar to the VF-0 brand explodium. In fact, not just the shoulders and knees, but a large portion of the body of the YF-19 has the same texture as that plastic that tends to disintegrate. Notably on mine, the hip areas have several stress marks around where the ball joint inserts are mounted. I also remember hearing of people having odd fractures in the upper chest plate, supposedly caused by too much squeezing the hips and wing mounts together in fighter mode. Then there's those infamous little brackets in the forward fuselage that a lot of people had break..

In general though, the VF-0 and YF-19 are the only Yamato valks I can recall that ever used this type of plastic (it's close to the plastic used on the 1/48ths, but not quite the same). By the time the SV-51 and YF-21 came out, the plastic quality had improved a lot, and everything since the v.2 VF-1 has felt to me like it used a much higher quality plastic in general.

Specifically in the case of the new VF-19, the shoulders feel much better, despite using a very similar construction. The plastic has a nice shine to it, and it feels very different compared with the YF-19's shoulders. I'm still concerned about the construction itself, seeing as how shoulders built that way can fail so badly on the YF-19, but only time will tell in this case, since the plastic doesn't seem prone to spontaneously disintegrating.

[Graham]

Yamato is using a completely different and much better factory these days. The factory they use now is not the same factory that made the VF-0 and YF-19. Of course the downside to using this better factory is that they charge Yamato much more.

Of course whether the same grade of plastic is still in use, I don't know, but I hope not. I will try to ask.

I do remember with the VF-0 arms Yamato told me that there was some chemical reaction occuring between the grey ABS plastic of the arms and the rubber or PVC in the joints, which weakened the plastic, causing it to crack. Unfortunately, they only found out too late.

Graham

[Chronocidal]

Mmmm... I seriously doubt that any amount of chemical reaction to rubber would cause the damage I saw on my VF-0A. When I disassembled the knees, they were shattered. They were criss-crossed with a spider web pattern of stress marks that no amount of contact with rubber could have possibly caused.

If chemical reactions were involved, they most likely occurred when they were mixing that batch of plastic. Maybe it was the molding process, maybe it was the way they were cooled or filled, or what have you, but that plastic had more in common with obsidian in the way it sheared apart than any plastic I've ever seen.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Mmmm... I seriously doubt that any amount of chemical reaction to rubber would cause the damage I saw on my VF-0A. When I disassembled the knees, they were shattered. They were criss-crossed with a spider web pattern of stress marks that no amount of contact with rubber could have possibly caused.

If chemical reactions were involved, they most likely occurred when they were mixing that batch of plastic. Maybe it was the molding process, maybe it was the way they were cooled or filled, or what have you, but that plastic had more in common with obsidian in the way it sheared apart than any plastic I've ever seen.

Your VF0A: reissue from last year, or original release?

[Chronocidal]

Original, the reissues used a plastic with an entirely different texture to the originals. It's why I think they simply got the mixture wrong for that particular material.

Actually I bought it from someone here, and already knew about the shoulders, but the knees were a total surprise. I never really heard about knees shattering for anyone, but they're much more sturdy due to the amount of material used in them. The shoulders were much more finely molded, and used a lot thinner plastic, so they were very quick to fall apart.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Chronocidal

[Toonz]

the same thing happen to my 19 and vf0....

[wewe]

This is more reason to say pass on this toy, even the renewal version. I've been having bad luck with my yamies lately. Both my VF-11c and VF-22 are structurally damaged now. So far, only my 1/60 VF-1s are alright. My Takara Masterpiece seekers feel tougher than my yamies. Reading about stuff like this makes me lose confidence in the company. Bu then again, these are old designs.

[shuji]

i dislike yf-19 very floppy toys not tight joining...play once now put back in the box...for my vf-0 still MIB..

[slaginpit]

Photos of the breakages attached.

Graham

HA...HAHA.. Sorry Graham dont mean to be laughing at your misery there but dam Yamato really sucks.! Nowhere on the net/web have I seen more pictures of toys spontaneously breaking than here and on the official spokesman of Yamato on the web. I fear to touch any of my Yamato's Granted my original Yamato chogokin 19 and 21 have stood the test of time. AND my VF-0 hasn't suffered anything. but I transformed it twice since it came out. Really these things look better in the box than on the shelf

[anime52k8]

HA...HAHA.. Sorry Graham dont mean to be laughing at your misery there but dam Yamato really sucks.! Nowhere on the net/web have I seen more pictures of toys spontaneously breaking than here and on the official spokesman of Yamato on the web. I fear to touch any of my Yamato's Granted my original Yamato chogokin 19 and 21 have stood the test of time. AND my VF-0 hasn't suffered anything. but I transformed it twice since it came out. Really these things look better in the box than on the shelf

So Despite all personal experiences to the contrary and based solely on limited anecdotal reports on the internet pertaining to a handful of releases from yamato's entire catalog of figures, you're still going to jump on the all Yamato toys are fragile pieces of crap band wagon because hey, that's what all the cool kids on the internet are doing.

yeah, that's totally reasonable.

[m0n5t3r]

i wouldn't ever want to wish anything bad on anyone BUT... if Graham didn't get cracked shoulder hinges on his GBP VF-1J, we would never have gotten those replacement parts that Yamato gave him. I wish there would be someone on this board that is connected with Bandai since i also have a couple of their products that have cracked plastic parts that are very similar to the cracked shoulder hinges of the early v.2 VF-1s... but i think they really just don't care anymore coz they even discontinued their one-time replacement part request policy sometime ago (w/c i was able to utilize of a SHCMPro that i have).

my YF-19 is fine since its an "old box" reissue with fixed gunpod and rear landing gears.

Edited September 23, 2011 by m0n5t3r

[wewe]

Yamato should step up and set up an actual department that really focuses on helping its international market get replacement for broken parts. I wouldn't mind if it would cost me more.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Since there are comparisons being made with the VF-0's, I would just like to add, I have the 2010 reissues and so far my A and S haven't had damaged arms yet. There were some light stress marks on the brace that holds the hip bar in fighter/gerwalk and the area where the backplate tabs plug into the lower legs, moreso on the A model than the S. The arms have not fallen off but the rubber coverings inside were seeping out to begin with.

I don't know what Yamato did with the V2 1/60 VF-1 but the joints, especially the ball jointed shoulders, never felt worn out after constant handling, unlike my 1/48 VF-1 and other older Yamato Valkyries.

Honestly though, I would take universal rotation joints that are ratcheted, like on the 1/55 VF-1, rather than ball joints. As long as there is also a hinge that can pivot inward and outward(in addition to universal rotation joints), you don't really need a ball joint imho.

I agree. I have been trying to tell people that clicky joints are the next step for toys of this size now that yamato has gotten all the other stuff right (good sculpt, gimmicks, smaller boxes etc) and it's time they started thnking about the long term durability of the toys now. They have the look down, now they just need to put effort into making the toy "feel good to handle" (like you are not wrecking it each time you want to handle it lol)

Once they achieve that I think people's confidence in buying will grow.

[ae_productions]

I agree. I have been trying to tell people that clicky joints are the next step for toys of this size now that yamato has gotten all the other stuff right (good sculpt, gimmicks, smaller boxes etc) and it's time they started thnking about the long term durability of the toys now. They have the look down, now they just need to put effort into making the toy "feel good to handle" (like you are not wrecking it each time you want to handle it lol)

Once they achieve that I think people's confidence in buying will grow.

You are absolutely right. I love the 0S. But I won't touch one with a 20 foot pole. Not for $200 + USD.

Even the V2 1:60s are fragile.

Durability, engineering, style and playability are key for me. Money is getting harder and harder to come by these days. I don't want to buy a 2 or 3 hundred dollar paper weight.

[m0n5t3r]

Even the V2 1:60s are fragile.

i disagree. it's the only valk that i'm confident of manhandling without fear of breaking anything... (of course i'm talking about the newer ones without the shoulder issue and with the new crotch).

[ErikElvis]

Are the 0A's with ghost any better than the standalone?

[Froy]

Here is what happened to minen:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=143&st=770

Is one of the first releases too.

[Shaorin]

Even the V2 1:60s are fragile.

the hell they are!! these "Toys" may not be intended for people to bang around like an eight-year-old with his G.I. JOEs,

but they sure as hell ain't no "Fabergé egg" either!!

i've had the 1/60v.II in my sig since 2008ish, handle it quite often, and it usually sees at least one transformation a month.

in all, it has probably seen at least a hundred transformations to date,

and it is STILL, to this very day, tight as can be, with no plastic yellowing whatsoever.

i'm fairly sure that i can confidently assure anyone that YAMATO definitely finally got it all right with the 1/60v.II series...

Edited September 23, 2011 by Shaorin

[Reïvaj]

Here is what happened to minen:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=143&st=770

Is one of the first releases too.

Another example of plastic pieces spontaneously exploding after been untouched for years…

While we could think it’s Yamato’s fault for having chosen the wrong kind of plastic we could also say they shouldn’t be completely blamed for a decision that shows its effects only a few years after.

I only hope they’ve learnt the lesson and are currently using better quality plastic. And I also hope there is a v.3 sooner or later, the later being for the 20th anniversary of the OVA

[myk]

While we could think it’s Yamato’s fault for having chosen the wrong kind of plastic we could also say they shouldn’t be completely blamed for a decision that shows its effects only a few years after.

I'd have to disagree, although conditionally. We don't KNOW if Yamato elected to use sub-par quality plastic/materials in this matter, but if you take into consideration toys like my original 1/55 Takatoku VF-1S that still perfectly ratchet, click and do whatever like it did back in the 80's to this very day, it's clear that toy was built properly. I'm pretty sure that with today's technology companies know EXACTLY the type of materials they're working with, potential problems, etc. A toy that breaks on its own just a few years out the gate begs to raise questions about the decisions Yamato made regarding materials; at the very least it's still unacceptable...

[mr.chogokin]

Oh but they know... and still they sell the plastic a grade or two lower than what they are paid. Not absolving Yamato either cuz when they think they are saving cost, their greed is just giving the manufacturers the green light to cheat more. There are no other manufacturers in the world that can compare to the damn Chinese factories at being unscrupulous about this practice. It's in their tourism, retail. Fvck it's in practically everything that they do for export except for themselves!

Edited September 24, 2011 by mr.chogokin

[eugimon]

I'd have to disagree, although conditionally. We don't KNOW if Yamato elected to use sub-par quality plastic/materials in this matter, but if you take into consideration toys like my original 1/55 Takatoku VF-1S that still perfectly ratchet, click and do whatever like it did back in the 80's to this very day, it's clear that toy was built properly. I'm pretty sure that with today's technology companies know EXACTLY the type of materials they're working with, potential problems, etc. A toy that breaks on its own just a few years out the gate begs to raise questions about the decisions Yamato made regarding materials; at the very least it's still unacceptable...

In my professional life I've dealt with 3rd party chinese manufacturers on more than one occasion. I can tell you that often times the product sample that I've reviewed was *nothing* like the final, retail copies.

There's a *reason* companies like Apple send QC engineers to their Chinese manufacturers on a monthly basis.

[Reïvaj]

In my professional life I've dealt with 3rd party chinese manufacturers on more than one occasion. I can tell you that often times the product sample that I've reviewed was *nothing* like the final, retail copies.

There's a *reason* companies like Apple send QC engineers to their Chinese manufacturers on a monthly basis.

That’s happened to me as well. Unfortunately, it’s pretty much up to each one’s scale of business to have a dedicated QC guy, which is certainly not my case. I’ve heard Yamato’s progressed a lot on that matter since the time of their YF-19 first release.

[Jasonc]

I'd really challenge the "fragility" of the v.2 VF-1. I own about 9 of them, and while my first two needed attention to the shoulders, the others have been just great, and I handle those quite a bit. Back on topic, it appears that whatever Yamato is doing, they are being more self aware of the QC issues, unlike when these YF-19s were first coming out. If they didn't have QC inspectors then, they may have one now, as their toys have had much better quality than before. I'm sure it's also a challenge for someone in a factory to see possible issues with a toy that has so many mechanical parts and internal mechanisms. While this isn't an excuse for Yamato, it seems they are evolving at a very decent rate. We've gone from the 1/72 Macross plus items, to the v.1 VF-1, to the 1/48s, to the 1/60 line in roughly ten years. Not bad, considering their engineering of such complicated toys seems to be better than Bandai, a well established toy manufacturer for how long?

I have to admit that I've never had any serious issues with Yamato toys, and the few that I have had, were fixable, and in comparison, not as bad as some other brands I've had.

[bowman]

Luckily i've dodged loads of bullets. Never had any Macross toys back in the 80's, didn't get any 1/72 or other scales models and even skipped the first release of the 1/60 YF-19. I never expected that in the year 2006/2007 collectors would be getting rubbish plastics when they pay > $200 for it. Still Yamato learned a lot these past few years and quality and articulation seemed to be improving. I still have hope for the ehm "perfect" 19