Thoughts on Macross Plus

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Full version is here.

Originally in my SDF Macross review I said the macros was Top Gun meets Battlestar: Galactica meets Transformers with a dash of Star Wars thrown in. Well no where does the Top Gun analogy become more apparent than with the 4-episode mini-series(or OVA) Macross Plus, released in 1994. The story features two rival jet fighter test pilots in a setting that is highly reminiscent of the classic Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer flick. There’s planes, space, dogfights, pretty girls, but unlike Top Gun, Macross Plus features a psychotic AI pop star, a kinda-sorta love triangle and a futuristic setting.

Now first of all, I have to say that after the disappointment that was Macross II, Plus was about 10x, no, 100x better. I seriously wanted to have Kenny Loggins’ Danger Zone or Cheap Trick’s Mighty Wings come blaring out of the speakers as the YF-19 and -21 danced across the sky. I mean, I enjoyed this so much I think there was only two things I really want to have them improve. They could have explained Sharon’s self-awareness a bit more and also why she seemed so intent on hypnotizing people and why she wanted to kill Isamu.

I also didn’t care much for Myung as well. I don’t dislike her but I think to myself “Gooooossshhh! Get off the pity wagon and stop being so damn depressing, especially when you’ve got guys like Isamu and Guld around." I don’t really blame Isamu for being more interested in Lucy when he got back to Eden than Myung.

Other than that this was solid, first-rate, no holds-barred, thrill-riding fun. I would not be embarrassed to say that I enjoyed Macross Plus more than Transformers 3, and that’s saying something. The characters, planes, visuals (none of that damn moe crap), music and sounds all come together beautifully. The fact that this was a good dub as well is an extra plus. With the talents of VA’s like Bryan Cranston (TV’s Breaking Bad), Richard Epcar and Beau Billingslea, it’s actually a joy to listen to as the actors actually emote. What a concept! All in all, on the MAHQ scale of stars, this gets five gold stars! Now if only it had Danger Zone…

I like this a lot for three main reasons:

-dogfighting was done really well. It has a sense of speed in the fighting that you can't get from fights only set in space.

-the main character is not the typical young kid who is obsessed about his reasons for doing things. He does things for a personal reason. Perhaps people don't like that but it works for a show about test pilots. It works because you have to be crazy to try the yf-19 and similar to the crew of sdf-1 your lack of knowledge about something and willingness to still try it out and give it a go resonates well with creative people (mainly struggling artists who want to experiment with new things and business people who want to innovate and try new ideas that are risky etc)

-cyperpunk theme - it has more paranoia than other shows. Just because technology provide convenience doesn't mean we should stop trying hard or we should become lazy. It reminds me of the theme in rocky movies: stallones character may not win against a better person with more skill but he can still "go the distance" to show that he will make the most out of what he has. This is a positive message. Myung is not obsolete just because an AI pop idol can entertain people better than a human. It's just that she gives up and doesn't want to be herself. Money and fame is not a measure of talent. She could be herself and become better than Sharon Apple but thinks dreams and ambition is "childish". I found this character to be a victim of her own demons. The AI is like her personal demon that lives inside her (it's like the devil part of her conscience) and she excorcises this when she realises she is better than a fake computer which happens to be popular. Real emotion can't be replaced by the counterfeit. This is similar to the theme in macross 7 where basara must use his energy to bring power to his music and you can see the monsters react to that energy.

That's what I got out of it.

I know people will say things like "the action was what drew them", "the mechas were what they liked" and other stuff like that but to me I liked the characters and story just as much. It was a simple story and paced nicely. And the twist at the end made a lot of sense within the macross universe. (zentradi are the warlike aliens so I can believe guld would go psycho for a minute and then deny he "lost control" later; which is what he alwways accuses dyson of doing when he wrecks planes.)

And then of course there is the music. I don't have to mention that as a "plus". Many love it and I think it adds a lot to the overall ova. I think brainwaves are one way of spying on humans and judging whether they like or hate something, but it is not "our soul". So all this technology (which you see in the ova) is just a tool it's not the truth about people.

I can experience hate and feel emotion and love, but that might just be me creating emotions through manipulation of my brain using drugs or whatever. It's not the same thing as those emotions being a result of what I truly feel in my heart. It's not easy to make that distinction. In the show you see peoples reactions being measured in the concert, but how much of that reaction is through mind manipulation and how much of it is their free will? The music might manipulate a person's emotions and put them into a trance-like state, but it's not the same as music you like because you actualy like it. There is a difference between this and having brainwaves manipulated to control you into thinking it's good.

This is what the brainwaves thing does for guld. He controls a plane through his mind, the machine interprets the brainwaves. But does his heart really wish for dyson to crash in that scene? Maybe for a second. But the machine interpreted that intent and made a fatal mistake. Thinking that his mind and his heart are the same. People can turn it around at any time and merely thinking about something and having brainwaves monitored doesn't tell the whole truth about a person. It's like judging people when they are drunk.

In the future I think people will try to judge others based on what they can see about their brains not on a person's soul or their total character and then filter in information about another which they want to hear while throwing away the rest. This results in people becoming more shallow and artificial, as they rely on formulas to create things rather than be themselves. Hollywood is an example: so many remakes of movies get made without considering if there is a need to do the remakes. It's done for commercial reason more than art. And this is a shame because stuff is created without the same level of heart as before as a result of people being lazy, falling back on emulating or copying what had already been done before. You can tell when a work lacks soul (an identity of its own) when you can predict what will happen ahead of time and it feels scripted/fake to go along a beaten path instead of being different enough to maintain your interest because the people wanted to make it unique.

In mac plus: it may not feel "like it belongs to macross" (some reckon the new art style looks weird) but that's partly why I like it more. It could have just been lazy and retold things like macross II but it gave us something more. The characters were not the same as the characters in SDFM with different names, in order to make more money from the popular cash cow, and it's better for it. The macross universe is more complete for having this different thing. You don't really have to have watched SDFM to appreciate it, and you could just see it as a cyberpunk movie about test pilots without transforming mecha. Macross 7 on the other hand, it really helps to know who max and milia are before you care for these character. They don't really do much in the show apart from be fan service for older macross fans.

Edited September 11, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But it still "went rogue" and was still doomed or destined to die/be dismantled at the end. As I said, entertainment and AI leads to doom.

For once I would like to see a story where the AI is good like they do in the "alien" movies smetimes.

Bishop in aliens seems like a untrustworthy android, but we see him save lives at the end.

Personally I think valkyries which are controlled with AI is the direction for macross in the future. No problem over music stopping them from fighitng.

If the rogue zentradi were smart they would try to create their own battle-star-galactica styled cylons to help them fight against humans with pop idols. The logic would be that "machines can't be culture shocked into submission".

Then in reaction to this, un spacy uses the pop idols to feed their emotions into "sharon apple"-like AI lifeforms which then have control over valkyries and fight against the rogue zentradi AI. This would be called the cyber wars because no fleshy people were involved in the fighitng only AI vs AI struggle.

The good guy AI win in the end because the song inspired them to mate with the rogue zentradi AI, (a form of cyber sex where they experience joy at meeting other beings like themselves and seek companionship) and this resulted in both AI making peace together which then ends the cyber wars. The AIs then turn against their masters (both the un spacy and rogue zentradi) and seek independence, off to live on a planet by themselves; which they name cybertron. ("the birth of the transformers!" lol)

Edited September 11, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Repiv_Onex]

the part where they're all together floating in space and glowing different colors was just a Visual representation of what was going on entirely in their heads while they physically remained in there previous locations.

Actually it was just the part that Ranka shifted the virus from Sheryl's brain to her stomach that was hard to accept for me. Unless Ranka was able to control the virus remotely with her mind alone. Or maybe I should have qouted another scene, when Klan was politing Micheal's Valk, at the part when she threw/past her sniper rifle to Alto, and when Alto reaches for it, he wasn't holding the stick but his hand was reaching out into the air. All those scenes increase the intensity of the show(might seems senseless to others) and were very well used.

Anyway, I accepted those scenes and liked it. btw Thanks for clarifying. and pardon for the off-topic.

[Product9]

For once I would like to see a story where the AI is good

Again, I point you guys to Sentou Yousei Yukikaze and Full Metal Panic!. As for FMP!, the anime being a poor representation of the source material, the sentience of Al isn't covered in detail (yet) but if you've read the original novels then you know where I'm coming from.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Product9

[Robelwell202]

Again, I point you guys to Sentou Yousei Yukikaze and Full Metal Panic!. As for FMP!, the anime being a poor representation of the source material, the sentience of Al isn't covered in detail (yet) but if you've read the original novels then you know where I'm coming from.

Are you sure? In TSR, they regularly hint at Al's sentience. Most of the time, Al's admonishing Sagara for not living up to his potential, and quizzing him on what he means by a particular statement. When Sagara tells Al to look it up, Al takes that in stride. For me, that's a definite hint at the AI's sentience (Something that the Lamda Driver probably gives).

In addition, there's a strong conversational tone between Sagara and Al during the last fight, where the two seem to almost be arguing (Or, in the tradition of super-hero duos, what might be called 'playful banter').

As an aside, in the TSR movie 'The Captian's Boring Day' (I hope that's the right title), Al's using tactical information supposedly relating to the simulation being run to play-by-play Tessa's appearance on the 'hangar' deck, adding a smart-ass wuality to the overall image of Al. For me, it added another level to the scene's overal comedic value, and another plus to those that created this particular franchise.

I'm just sayin'...

[JB0]

my interpretation was that Guld's plan was to load a few live rounds into the YF-19's gunpod then instigate the fight so that Isamu would shoot him. Isamu would be blamed for it and be kicked out of the program/court marshaled.

Guld never intended to kill or injure Isamu, he was trying to frame him. He also never intended or expected the gunpod to jam and for ismau to start beating him with it/kicking the crap out of him.

In fact we never see what happens after Guld grabs the gunpod. it just cuts away to the control room where they show the damaged YF-19 lying on the ground. I think the Gunpod really did accidentally discharge when guld tried to use it as a club to beat Isamu off of him.

I still agree that the movie works a little better because Isamu's injuries make much more sense as a result of the VF-11 crash than as a result of the fight. but Gulds plan isn't that confusing.

overall the movie has a bit better flow than the OVA, but you loose some really awesome action scenes in the process.

That actually DOES make sense. Thank you!

I rescind the complaint.

Why not? He's strapped into a licensed nuclear powered super tough death machine that skidded to a stop. I'm not saying the alternative scene where he's someone how injured when his robot is non-fatally wounded is any better. Especially considering how relatively deep the YF-19 cockpit is buried in Battroid mode. I've never really understood the common trope of people being injured inside their armored robots. It works alright in WW2 movies where the planes are made of aluminum and the flak is nasty but no so much in teh future.

Even if your vehicle survives, YOU aren't as durable as it is, and inertia can be a harsh mistress.

Being slammed into the ground and used as a plow is a bad thing even if your plane DOESN'T disintegrate around you(needless to say, if the plane had disintegrated around him, there wouldn't be much of a story afterwards).

If nothing else, neck injury and concussion are likely major concerns.

Also, damage to the vehicle can actually IMPROVE the injury situation. Energy that goes into damaging the hard crunchy vehicle is energy that isn't available to damage the soft chewy center.

It's why cars are explicitly designed to crumple up in a head-on collision.

Also did you notice when the VF-11 is carrying the YF-21, the YF-21's wings fold out completely opposite of how they're supposed to? Oops.

I actually assumed that was intentional. It's an extremely odd aerodynamic situation, so the standard wing configuration is likely less than optimal, and the YF-21 is already shown to have HIGHLY adaptable wings. If it can fold them one way, why not the other way too?

[VF5SS]

Even if your vehicle survives, YOU aren't as durable as it is, and inertia can be a harsh mistress.

Anime people are pretty durable. Plus we've seen similar accidents in Macross and DYRL.

I actually assumed that was intentional. It's an extremely odd aerodynamic situation, so the standard wing configuration is likely less than optimal, and the YF-21 is already shown to have HIGHLY adaptable wings. If it can fold them one way, why not the other way too?

No the transformation diagram shows them folding one way. We never saw them unfold and refold over on the other side so I just chalk it up to a gaffe. Physically, the YF-21's backpack has to unhinge a bit to allow the wing clearance.

[Product9]

Are you sure?

Yes. The Full Metal Panic! anime is based on a novel series that has already been completed. Having read the entire series, I am privy to stuff that fans of the anime alone have no idea about.

Unfortunately, the anime is a poor representation of the source material. During the conversation between Sousuke with Al while the TDD was heading toward Hong Kong, Sousuke mentions that Al's creator, Bani Mourata, was dead, having taken his own life. This information activates a dormant program in Al, and at that moment he becomes sentient. The conversation in question happened in the anime, but they glanced over this without explaining it at all.

TSR was based on two novels, Owaru Day by Day part one and two. The following novel, Odorou Very Merry Christmas (being on a phone, I may have spelled that wrong), shows Al's personality vastly changed. He has been absorbing information rapidly, including listening to radio stations and the crew of the TDD, and even has a sense of humor. As Tessa puts it at one point, Al is a copy of Sagara (having inprinted his nervous system when initializing the Arbalest for the first time) and represents what Sousuke might be like had be grown up under different circumstances. This fact disturbs Sousuke, as he and Al rarely get along.

I won't spoil it, but the relationship between Sousuke and Al gets more and more awesome as the novels go on. They picked the worst possible place to stop making anime, because the novels just get better and better, and I really, REALLY hope they animate more.

Sorry that this was off topic, but I had to set the record straight on that.

[valkyriechild]

For once I would like to see a story where the AI is good like they do in the "alien" movies smetimes.

Bishop in aliens seems like a untrustworthy android, but we see him save lives at the end.

Personally I think valkyries which are controlled with AI is the direction for macross in the future. No problem over music stopping them from fighitng.

If the rogue zentradi were smart they would try to create their own battle-star-galactica styled cylons to help them fight against humans with pop idols. The logic would be that "machines can't be culture shocked into submission".

Then in reaction to this, un spacy uses the pop idols to feed their emotions into "sharon apple"-like AI lifeforms which then have control over valkyries and fight against the rogue zentradi AI. This would be called the cyber wars because no fleshy people were involved in the fighitng only AI vs AI struggle.

The good guy AI win in the end because the song inspired them to mate with the rogue zentradi AI, (a form of cyber sex where they experience joy at meeting other beings like themselves and seek companionship) and this resulted in both AI making peace together which then ends the cyber wars. The AIs then turn against their masters (both the un spacy and rogue zentradi) and seek independence, off to live on a planet by themselves; which they name cybertron. ("the birth of the transformers!" lol)

Interesting idea. It's like duel between rock band in the same stage, which one is able to gather most applause would be the winner, which AI able to hack most VF's and spaceships would win the battle. It will be duels between songs of both AI's.

But no idea about the protagonist, another pilot?

[s001]

See, in my book the merging of the accidents is one of the movie's best traits.

Isamu simply shouldn't just dust himself off and walk away from that crash.

And the "live fire incident" is just insane. To this day I can't figure out a coherent explanation for how it was SUPPOSED to work.

Let's load ISAMU'S gun with real bullets in the middle of the clip, and then hope it jams instead of firing off those real bullets, so that he'll drop it and I can pick up the "jammed" rifle and shoot him with it!

Thereby proving he was trying to murder me, but too incompetent to pull it off or bold enough to follow through when his first plan failed. AND it lets me kill him while at the same time looking innocent! Even though I'm the one that fired the "jammed" gun, and did it like I knew it was not jammed and was actually full of lead!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah...

After that... the aftermath of the concert hall fire is a big sticking point for me.

There's no way Isamu would've stood down and too the crap Guld was throwing at him after the fire. He did his damnedest to get there, and led the cops on a high-speed chase in the process. He just happened to get there after everyone else. When I first saw the OVA, I was waiting for Isamu to bust Guld's face open, but he just backed down like a sissy.

But if he never showed at the fire because he was too busy with his new girlfriend to answer the phone, THAT's something he can't argue(not that I would've answered the phone in his position...).

Got no beef with the intro, though. That's pure, unadulterated goodness.

I WANT to like the YF-19/21 battle, but the whole live ammo circus strains my suspension of disbelief too far. And given we're talking about two transforming spacejets playing 1:1-scale Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, that REALLY says something about how bad that subplot IS.

I'd love to see an in-between edit that takes the best parts of both versions, and rescripts that one fight to make some freaking sense..

Seriously? You're nitpicking on Macross Plus man? I'm guessing you have never watched M7 and M0. I think Macross Plus is a lot better just because it doesn't have any of the common anime cliches almost all the other macross shows suffer from. Even the ones I like the most.

[JB0]

Seriously? You're nitpicking on Macross Plus man? I'm guessing you have never watched M7 and M0. I think Macross Plus is a lot better just because it doesn't have any of the common anime cliches almost all the other macross shows suffer from. Even the ones I like the most.

Ah, of course. How could I POSSIBLY complain about legitimate flaws in the product when I know there are less enjoyable products around?

And it is just plain CRAZY of me to criticize an edit that exists solely due to the demands of marketing execs while expressing a preference for the less popular version.

I've seen 7. And Zero. Just because they're worse doesn't mean that Plus doesn't have flaws. Nor does it mean that 7 and Zero have nothing good in them(which in no way means I'm a great fan of either one).

I'll even criticize the original SDF Macross, my personal favorite entry. Not even the holy grail of DYRL? is safe from me having opinions about it being occasionally imperfect.

Nothing gets a free ride from me. I'll actually offer more critiques on stuff I enjoy, because I'm willing to think about it instead of trying to purge it from my memory.

Suffice it to say, I saw the Plus OVA first. I had issues with certain points, as detailed above. When I saw the movie, it was like a light went on. THIS was how it should have been in the first place!

Finding out later that a movie was the original intent(well, after it became a Macross production) was entirely unsurprising.

I still think the motorcycle chase exists solely to save Isamu and Lucy's bedroom scene for the movie, and forces Isamu seriously out of character in the next scene.

And that the OVA is seriously stretching credibility with the two accidents(though less so now that I've been offered a plausible explanation for how Guld's nefarious scheme was SUPPOSED to work).

I stand by that opinion, and hold it despite quite enjoying both incarnations of Plus very much.

I also stand by my belief that my criticisms constitute more than minor nitpicks and that there are actually holes big enough to fold a zentradi fleet through in the OVA.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

When I saw the movie, it was like a light went on. THIS was how it should have been in the first place!

I saw the movie first, didn't care for it, then saw the OVA and a light came on.

1)I enjoyed how things built up more. I.E. Isamu didn't get to fly the YF-19 right away. He had to wait for it and that made the first flight that much better because of all the anticipation behind it. We already know Isamu is almost Max good from the Zentradi battle so we can't wait to see him fly it. Especially because we see how awesome the YF-21 is in various sequences before hand. It makes that first flight scene that much more meaningful and to use the modern vernacular...EPIC!

2)In the movie, I thought the extra scenes with Millard, and the ones with Lucy weren't very good, (Not that Lucy isn't hot...)

3)The movie cut more good stuff then it added in (IMO)(extra YF-19 vs 21 battle, Zentradi fight scene, some character development)

4) Already said, but I feel the need to reiterate, Isamu is an A$$hole in the movie. He is way more human and believable in the OVA.

I think it is great that people like both versions, but for my time, OVA everytime. The only time I pop in the movie is to skip to the scenes with extra content I like. Like it has already been said, the best version would be the OVA with SOME of the extra movie scenes. Isamu buzzing the control tower added into his first flight, extended Guld X-9 battle, extended Isamu being hypnotized scene (flying through Macross city). Maybe some of the extra concert stuff...but even that I didn't overly care for.

It would be neat to see a detailed scene for scene breakdown between the two shows.

[derex3592]

I like the OVA best myself....saw it first, then the movie like a year later. Movie felt kinda rushed

[Duke Togo]

I <3 Macross Plus. There, I said it. It's the last Macross production that--for me--feels like it fits in with SDFM, DYRL, and 2012. Is there anything I don't like about it? Um, nope. I'm even content with the length of it.

[VF5SS]

Jeez you really had to agonize over confessing your love for the Macross most people like.

When JoshB at CDX was telling me about watching 7 he said he really liked it. He is a big Plus fan but he told me and others that 7 is really the next logical step for Macross. Also he's a metalhead so all that J-Rock speaks to him.

[Gubaba]

Jeez you really had to agonize over confessing your love for the Macross most people like.

When JoshB at CDX was telling me about watching 7 he said he really liked it. He is a big Plus fan but he told me and others that 7 is really the next logical step for Macross. Also he's a metalhead so all that J-Rock speaks to him.

Tochiro will smack me for this, but Chie Kajiura > Yoshiki Fukuyama.

But yeah, Plus is pretty universally accepted as awesome. I remember being disappointed with the finale the first time I saw it, but I soon got over that.

[boinger]

I have a question about the Macross Plus english dub.

Was there ever an english dub 4 that used the original Yoko Kanno soundtracks

on the Japnese M+ ova 4 for the end fight scene

or was the music just re-used from episode 2 or 3?

[HannouHeiki]

Ever notice how Air Force commercials don't show cool jets and pilots? Anyone remember the dumb commercial where people at computers reprogram a sattelite to dodge some incoming junk? Or seen footage of pilots flying drones from some military office? Have you noticed the lack of manned military flight, and how the next generation will grow up with this as "normal?"

Anyone play PS3? Ever hear of the Ace Combat series? It is a military jet arcade sim. It has just about every major military jet from around the world since the 70s through today. I just noticed that almost all the "real life" jets are no longer in production, including the F-22 on the box. The F-22 is a thing of the past!

That's when I think of Macross Plus.

[RyuRoots]

Ever notice how Air Force commercials don't show cool jets and pilots? Anyone remember the dumb commercial where people at computers reprogram a sattelite to dodge some incoming junk? Or seen footage of pilots flying drones from some military office? Have you noticed the lack of manned military flight, and how the next generation will grow up with this as "normal?"

Anyone play PS3? Ever hear of the Ace Combat series? It is a military jet arcade sim. It has just about every major military jet from around the world since the 70s through today. I just noticed that almost all the "real life" jets are no longer in production, including the F-22 on the box. The F-22 is a thing of the past!

That's when I think of Macross Plus.

Except that isn't really a fair standard to hold Macross Plus to since it came out in frigging 1994.

Hint: Modern aircraft technology of 1994 was slightly different than modern aircraft technology of late 2011. Also, Assault Horizon is (regrettably, considering what AH is) the only Ace Combat on PS3. The real ones are on PS2 and 360.

[frothymug]

I consider the Air Force to be the tech geeks of the Armed Forces. They're the ones that handle reconnaissance, sattelites, electronic warfare, and special operations. They don't fly the combat jets as much as you'd think, but they handle AWACS, cargo logistics, and bombers. On the flip side, they do get to play with those beautiful F-22s.

[Keith]

I have a question about the Macross Plus english dub.

Was there ever an english dub 4 that used the original Yoko Kanno soundtracks

on the Japnese M+ ova 4 for the end fight scene

or was the music just re-used from episode 2 or 3?

I'm starting to wonder if there was some weird issue between Big West & Manga at the time. Considering that Big West contracted their own dub for that episode, and Manga were missing BGM & SFX tracks (had to do their own), I'm really curious about what happened there.

[TheLoneWolf]

I <3 Macross Plus. There, I said it. It's the last Macross production that--for me--feels like it fits in with SDFM, DYRL, and 2012. Is there anything I don't like about it? Um, nope. I'm even content with the length of it.

While I also love Macross Plus dearly, I don't think it fits in very well with SDF Macross because it lacks the cheesy humor and sense of parody that was abundant in SDFM. On the other hand, I thought Macross Plus fitted in perfectly with DYRL because neither productions had much humor and focused more on drama.

[ErikElvis]

I like the "drama" of plus. I thinks its kind of in one with frontier. Its the future of macross. Not a rock singer that makes people listen to his song everywhere. (I just can't get into 7). Love some of the valks though....

[Duke Togo]

I'm starting to wonder if there was some weird issue between Big West & Manga at the time. Considering that Big West contracted their own dub for that episode, and Manga were missing BGM & SFX tracks (had to do their own), I'm really curious about what happened there.

I still can't find any hard evidence of this other dub. Not that I am doubting you, I just can't find any info on it, or clips.

[Keith]

I like the "drama" of plus. I thinks its kind of in one with frontier. Its the future of macross. Not a rock singer that makes people listen to his song everywhere. (I just can't get into 7). Love some of the valks though....

7 & plus are actually complementary series to each other. In one music is used artificially to control, in one music is used organically to break control. As for hate, isamu is ;pretty much Basara without a guitar, get over it.

[treatment]

As for hate, isamu is ;pretty much Basara without a guitar, get over it.

that is just completely utter nonsense.

I still can't find any hard evidence of this other dub. Not that I am doubting you, I just can't find any info on it, or clips.

I think some member(s) here bought the old International Version, but I always thought they were the same Animaze-dub that MangaEnt used in the R1.

[TheLoneWolf]

7 & plus are actually complementary series to each other.

Agreed. Lots of folks forget that Macross Plus and Macross 7 both debuted in the same year in Japan. Macross Plus was 1/2 drama and 1/2 hard-hitting mecha action. Macross 7 was 1/2 whimsical parody and 1/2 power-of-music fable. When you combine the two series together, you have all the elements that made up the original SDF Macross. I'd be willing to bet that this is exactly what Kawamori had in mind during the preproduction of Macross Plus and Macross 7.

As for hate, isamu is ;pretty much Basara without a guitar, get over it.

LOL! But Isamu loves women and Basara loves...bioweapons?

I think some member(s) here bought the old International Version, but I always thought they were the same Animaze-dub that MangaEnt used in the R1.

Yup, that member would be me. And yes Duke, I can confirm that the dub that Keith's referring to exists here (see second attachment).

[treatment]

LOL! But Isamu loves women and Basara loves...bioweapons?

Yeah. Isamu luvs the boobies. There is no doubt.

In contrast,

Basara loves...something hard and something long. He loves playing with it, too. Alot. Basara also loves screaming. in a very girly-scream manner. Alot.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

What I like about Plus is that you don't necessarily have to watch any previous Macross to know what it's about. So it's a good introduction to Macross for any newcoming fan.

[Keith]

Let's do a tally. Hot alien space babe's that Basara's gotten = 1

Isamu = 0

Basara wins!!

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

IMO Basara has more in common with Alto. They are both moody and don't know what to do with women that throw themselves at you.

I mean, if I was Basara I would have been all over Mylene, Mylene's sister, their manager, Rex and flower girl. I am probably forgetting a few too. Who does he end up going for? The protoculture created, demon possessed, bio construct.

Ugh

[VF5SS]

Mylene's only 14 mang.

Basara is about 21.

[JB0]

Let's do a tally. Hot alien space babe's that Basara's gotten = 1

Isamu = 0

Basara wins!!

Basara's just a copycat.

Max is the one true winner.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Let's do a tally. Hot alien space babe's that Basara's gotten = 1

Isamu = 0

Basara wins!!

He got with Lucy then with Myung at the end and had an A.I. want to pleasure him.

Also Bryan Cranston voiced him.

[Keith]

Isamu getting Lucy wasn't a challenge, and Myung was a foregone. As for Sharon, she didn't want to get wit him, she wanted to ram him into the ground.

Basara on the other hand had Sivil cummin' just from the thought of him, and had she stayed in this dimension t hey'd totally be having flying singing guitar playing super babies. I'd also wager that he did get Rex, he's just to smooth to bother flaunting it.

Max is OG sukube and got Milia, but was quickly p-whipped. Basara had the entire Chlore fleet soaking themselves. Basara's pimp enough that he don't need those ho's, though if stupid freakin' Pedro hadn't inturrupted, he'd literally have been in Emilia's pants.

Once again, the win goes to Basara.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Keith