Thoughts on Macross II

[terry the lone wolf]

Like of Macross 7 is taken "very" seriously around these parts. Macross 7 fans are considered "elite" around here. You can tell this because I am king of all U.S. 7 fans.

I think this statement is a wee bit overblown. I'm proud to say I don't take Macross 7 very serious at all.....

[Keith]

that's only because you had a website full of gifs

i challenge your rule with my Macross 7 toys from Yamato

Being top Macross 7 fan isn't about gifs or toys, it's about most fervently preaching the word of Basara!

I think this statement is a wee bit overblown. I'm proud to say I don't take Macross 7 very serious at all.....

And that is why you fail.

[Sheryl Nome]

Being top Macross 7 fan isn't about gifs or toys, it's about most fervently preaching the word of Basara!

Word? You mean song right? As in, "Listen to my song!"

[Benson13]

LMFAO! I've never seen or heard anything from Mac 7 but that's damn sure not what I imagined.

[VF5SS]

http://twitpic.com/9j74yx

got some robots too

blue ones

[Sheryl Nome]

LMFAO! I've never seen or heard anything from Mac 7 but that's damn sure not what I imagined.

What were you expecting exactly?

http://twitpic.com/9j74yx

got some robots too

blue ones

The animation in Macross 7 is actually really good. Even the stock footage for the battles is top notch. Too bad all of the early fights are composed almost entirely of stock footage & Planet Dance.

[VF5SS]

To be fair, Macross 7 was meant to be watched once a week and I'm fairly sure it was the only place you'd be hearing Planet Dance until the first CD came out :3

I wonder if Aya Endo had any albums.

[azrael]

Mod warning:

Get back on topic or I lock.

[VF5SS]

Me and the Reverse Thieves did a podcast on Macross 2 a few weeks ago but it's not up yet.

I tried to not swear as much.

Or talk about breasts.

[Benson13]

Me and the Reverse Thieves did a podcast on Macross 2 a few weeks ago but it's not up yet.

I tried to not swear as much.

Or talk about breasts.

What's the link?

[VF5SS]

It's not up yet but they put them here http://reversethieves.com/the-speakeasy-podcast/

It's going to be a Speakeasy

you get tips on mixed drinks too

[Jack Verse]

No love for this poor bird in the model section, only hate and discontent:( Hopefully you guys will appreciate it more.

its a resin kit that was sold last weekend at treasure festa. 8 were made and sold out in 2 minutes after the doors opened. its 1/144 scale but a larger 1/72 one will be sold at the next treasure festa in december.

YES! METAL SIREN!

*fangasims*

[VF5SS]

http://reversethieves.com/2012/05/21/the-speakeasy-029-red-headed-stepchild-a-macross-ii-discussion/

In this week's speak easy, you get to learn how to make a Red-headed stepchild

[oshanmacross]

The mecha was brilliant!

[Bounty Hunter]

I prefer the SDFM/MII/2036/ELS continuity, it seems more pure to the franchise, especially the mecha and character designs, being good and logical evolutions from the original. I'm not a fan of any Kawamori mecha post VF-4 with the possible exception of the VF-11C.

The podcast makes an interesting point. Were the Marduk actually supposed to be the Supervision Army by a different name?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Bounty Hunter

[Keith]

No the Marduk weren't Supervision Army, they were another Earth like planet that came across the Zentradi & defeated them with "culture." The difference being that they enslaved them rather than joining with them. As for the 2036 canon being more natural, I don't see it.

[Seto Kaiba]

The podcast makes an interesting point. Were the Marduk actually supposed to be the Supervision Army by a different name?

No, the Supervision Army doesn't exist in the Macross II: Lovers Again timeline... which takes its origins from the version of Space War 1 that was shown in Macross: Do You Remember Love?. Instead of the Supervision Army, the Zentradi were fighting against the Meltrandi after the gender-related schism that split the Protoculture in two. The Mardook are strongly implied to be the descendants of one of the groups of the Protoculture who fled the collapse of their civilization, like the ones that settled on Earth before the war found them. The creative staff which worked on Macross II never comes right out and identify the origins of the Mardook, but the interviews they gave in various magazines paint them as an advanced interstellar civilization that reveres its own culture as sacred and possesses technology superior to the Zentradi. That rather narrows the field...

[Bounty Hunter]

Keith - Ok I thought the podcast made a vague reference to the MII script writers, who were new to Macross, basing the Marduk on the Supervision Army in the original?

I think the 2036/MII/Eternal Love Song canon is more a more natural evolution aesthetically.

Edit: Just saw Seto Kaibas very informative post and I'm guessing he is somewhat of an expert on MII so I'll take his word for it. Thanks Seto for clearing that up in great detail!

Edited May 23, 2012 by Bounty Hunter

[Bounty Hunter]

an advanced interstellar civilization that reveres its own culture as sacred and possesses technology superior to the Zentradi. That rather narrows the field...

Interesting..So basically it's supposed to be Space Japan?

Seto, is the booby trap incident considered to have occurred in DYRL/MII continuity before the events of DYRL? Ie are the early cut scenes in the Sega Saturn DYRL game considered canon? If so then what origin is the SDF-1/ASS-1 considered to have in that continuity? Obviously not Supervision Army since they don't exist but Meltrandi?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Bounty Hunter

[Seto Kaiba]

Keith - Ok I thought the podcast made a vague reference to the MII script writers, who were new to Macross, basing the Marduk on the Supervision Army in the original?

Uh... if the podcast said that, they really missed the mark. Macross II: Lovers Again had Sukehiro Tomita in charge of the writing, and he was most assuredly NOT new to the Macross universe at the time.

Interesting..So basically it's supposed to be Space Japan?

Nah, they're not nearly weird enough.

Seto, is the booby trap incident considered to have occurred in DYRL/MII continuity before the events of DYRL? Ie are the early cut scenes in the Sega Saturn DYRL game considered canon? If so then what origin is the SDF-1/ASS-1 considered to have in that continuity? Obviously not Supervision Army since they don't exist but Meltrandi?

Well... that's complicated. The "Booby Trap" situation is said to have occurred, but the early cut scenes in the DYRL? video game came way after Macross II came out, so it's doubtful that version of events could be considered canon to the Macross II alternate universe. The SDF-1 Macross was, in Macross: Do You Remember Love? and its nominal sequel Macross II: Lovers Again, originally a Meltrandi gun destroyer.

[VF5SS]

I prefer the SDFM/MII/2036/ELS continuity, it seems more pure to the franchise, especially the mecha and character designs, being good and logical evolutions from the original.

Comfort food~

Let's get some Haagen Daz with some jimmies and a cherry on top :3

Uh... if the podcast said that, they really missed the mark. Macross II: Lovers Again had Sukehiro Tomita in charge of the writing, and he was most assuredly NOT new to the Macross universe at the time.

Well I didn't say that on the podcast. Gubaba can confirm that most of what I said was on the mark and I trust him with my internet life.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well I didn't say that on the podcast. Gubaba can confirm that most of what I said was on the mark and I trust him with my internet life.

's all right, I figured it was pretty unlikely that you'd said that. That's why my statement started with "if". You wouldn't be so incautious as to leave me an opening to jump out and go "AHA!".

Yeah, in a way, Macross II is kind of like Macross comfort food... it's the last one to follow on the tone and "feel" of the original, before things pulled a 180 and went into exploratory mode starting with Macross Plus. I'm sure a lot of folks would say that's not really in keeping with that time-honored Macross tradition of radically reinventing things with every major new title, but to some of us (myself included) think having the familiar tone is a point in its favor.

[Bounty Hunter]

Uh... if the podcast said that, they really missed the mark. Macross II: Lovers Again had Sukehiro Tomita in charge of the writing, and he was most assuredly NOT new to the Macross universe at the time.

I must have misheard. I'm not sure if its how VF5SS speaks but when I was listening it seemed like there were a lot of small cuts and re edits and it was sometimes hard to follow his train of thought. He did mention Tomita though but also mentioned a connection between the Supervision Army in SDFM and the Mardook in MII. Am I wrong VF5SS?

Well... that's complicated. The "Booby Trap" situation is said to have occurred, but the early cut scenes in the DYRL? video game came way after Macross II came out, so it's doubtful that version of events could be considered canon to the Macross II alternate universe. The SDF-1 Macross was, in Macross: Do You Remember Love? and its nominal sequel Macross II: Lovers Again, originally a Meltrandi gun destroyer.

Ah, that's fascinating and I had always wondered about it, I never quite made the connection myself. Thanks for the detailed and informative reply again.

[Seto Kaiba]

He did mention Tomita though but also mentioned a connection between the Supervision Army in SDFM and the Mardook in MII. Am I wrong VF5SS?

Well, there is kind of a connection there... but only really in that they both use brainwashed troops. The Supervision Army supposedly uses (used?) a mixture of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi, where the Mardook use only brainwashed and cybernetically modified Zentradi soldiers.

[Bounty Hunter]

Again interesting Seto.

but to some of us (myself included) think having the familiar tone is a point in its favor.

Me included also! It just "feels" like Macross like nothing has since. Every other incarnation post Macross II I just felt like I was watching a completely different show that happened to have the title Macross. The one exception for me was the end of Macross 7 that had a little bit of that old feeling but the mecha and enemies just didn't feel right. The mecha and epic battles against cool enemies is the most important part of Macross for me. Space vampires and possessed UN spacy pilots are just...stupid.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Bounty Hunter

[VF5SS]

I must have misheard. I'm not sure if its how VF5SS speaks but when I was listening it seemed like there were a lot of small cuts and re edits and it was sometimes hard to follow his train of thought.

The Reverse Thieves did go a little overboard with cutting the pauses out of my audio track. It sounded odd to me too.

http://collectiondx.com/blog/vf5ss

I'm less fanatical about snipping pauses when I edit my own show :3

Ah, that's fascinating and I had always wondered about it, I never quite made the connection myself. Thanks for the detailed and informative reply again.

In my mind the Marduk and Supervision Army are conceptually similar enough that I believe Tomita had something in mind when writing Macross 2.

Edited May 23, 2012 by VF5SS

[Keith]

Of course Macross II is familiar, it's a near scene ofr scene reproduction of DYRL.

[VF5SS]

No it's not.

[Keith]

No it's not.

Oh yes it is!

[505thAirborne]

No it's not.

Exactly.

[VF5SS]

http://twitpic.com/9ogznf

Marduk Women Running in Forests

coming soon to DVD

[Zinjo]

Hibiki and Sylvie got together because of bad writing :v

Dude I wouldn't go down the "bad writing" rabbit hole while still clinging to a notion of Mac 7 "superiority".

Both series had their fair share of WTF moments!

[VF5SS]

I don't have to cling to anything.

I've got postits for that

Come on people.

[Zinjo]

Oh yes it is!

Nice try Keith, but that tired old dismissive doesn't work anymore... I've debunked your assertion on more than one occasion.

All you have to do is watch it understand that.

It's like dismissing M7 as nothing more than a superfluously long, Victor Music merchandizing vehicle with unbelievable characters and magical rainbow ray music weapons. If one watches M7, eventually they will find a story amongst the 49 episodes, that is rather interesting and even compelling.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Me included also! It just "feels" like Macross like nothing has since. Every other incarnation post Macross II I just felt like I was watching a completely different show that happened to have the title Macross.

Well, there's probably a good reason for that... IIRC, Macross Plus was developed as a stand-alone title rather than a Macross OVA, and it was "adopted" into the Macross universe to get the funding to fully realize Kawamori's plans for it. Macross 7 and the titles that followed all really try to mix things up and go in different directions... sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not so good. Macross II: Lovers Again was, I guess, the last traditional Macross show before the universe started to really branch out.

The one exception for me was the end of Macross 7 that had a little bit of that old feeling but the mecha and enemies just didn't feel right. The mecha and epic battles against cool enemies is the most important part of Macross for me. Space vampires and possessed UN spacy pilots are just...stupid.

I used to hate Macross 7 with a passion, to the point where it took the epicness that was Macross Frontier to convince me that Macross was still a viable property. Once my grasp of Japanese improved to the point where I could watch it without needing subtitles, it got better. What really causes problems for a lot of people watching Macross 7 after seeing the stuff that came before is that the more serious tone we got in Macross II and Macross Plus puts you in completely the wrong mindset to enjoy Macross 7. Macross 7 is a lot like its contemporary cousin Mobile Fighter G Gundam... if you go into it all "Serious Business", then you're doing it wrong and you're only going to hate it. You have to suspend the expectation of a serious story and just enjoy the spectacle of the show going over the top and breaking all the rules. Macross II: Lovers Again gets a lot of flak from Macross 7 crowd for the opposite reason... where Macross 7 was taking big risks and pushing envelopes with almost unnatural vigour, Macross II was very much playing it safe and taking no chances.

In my mind the Marduk and Supervision Army are conceptually similar enough that I believe Tomita had something in mind when writing Macross 2.

Possible, IMO, but unlikely... early production art from the OVA (printed in Animage and other magazines) suggests that the thing uppermost in his mind when they were conceiving Macross II was probably his own novelization of DYRL. There's some beautiful art of a DYRL Macross with the Daedalus and Prometheus still attached in the same issue where they showcased Kazumi Fujita's early version of the Valkyrie II.