Macross Toys holding Value

[slaginpit]

Just a question. I have quite a few Valks from Bandai and Yamato, and recently I was about to push the purchase now button on the Fire Valkyrie by Yamato and it occurred to me. A lot of the Valks on HLJ are now selling for less than half of the original asking price. Why am I letting my impetuous nature dictate the purchase of these things. They have next to 0 holding value unlike a lot of Transformers toys or SOCs. I have decided to wait and watch this thing for a year and then I will buy. I will be looking for the 1/100 bandai version. It just seems sad that none of these toys hold no value. Do you suffer from PPD when you have bought these toys and then a year later you see them at half the price??

And now with Bandai re-releasing new improved versions of the YF-25 and probably doing the whole line I feel a bit cheated. After the first few they could have improved the mold. But they purposely waited to do the whole line on the speculators of collectors not getting better improved versions. Im just tired of the games these companies play.

I think I am done collecting macross stuff for a while and only until see them on major sale or someone is selling a used one.

Just my thought on it

[Nicaragua]

Just assign each toy your own value and then purchase it based on that.

If I can get a toy that i want at a price i am willing to pay then i will buy it with teh intention of it making me happy. If you are buying anything based on the price fluctuating then 9 times out of 10 you will end up dissapointed because the price on most things will inevitably drop.

Macross toys are collectables but not necesssarily valuables.

[Shaorin]

well i certainly hope they plummet, as i really can't afford the exorbatant prices YAMATO is asking these days,

but if i could get one of the new YF/VF-19 designs for $150 instead of $300, well then we would be talking!

[jenius]

Some hold their values better than others. I think Yamato got hit pretty hard by the economic collapse and so they over-estimated quantities and are still wiping out that inventory at reduced rates. I would guess smaller runs will be made of future releases which should limit the 50% off sales.

Edited July 28, 2011 by jenius

[Jasonc]

Just a question. I have quite a few Valks from Bandai and Yamato, and recently I was about to push the purchase now button on the Fire Valkyrie by Yamato and it occurred to me. A lot of the Valks on HLJ are now selling for less than half of the original asking price. Why am I letting my impetuous nature dictate the purchase of these things. They have next to 0 holding value unlike a lot of Transformers toys or SOCs. I have decided to wait and watch this thing for a year and then I will buy. I will be looking for the 1/100 bandai version. It just seems sad that none of these toys hold no value. Do you suffer from PPD when you have bought these toys and then a year later you see them at half the price??

And now with Bandai re-releasing new improved versions of the YF-25 and probably doing the whole line I feel a bit cheated. After the first few they could have improved the mold. But they purposely waited to do the whole line on the speculators of collectors not getting better improved versions. Im just tired of the games these companies play.

I think I am done collecting macross stuff for a while and only until see them on major sale or someone is selling a used one.

Just my thought on it

Can't say I've had a problem with this at all, being that most of what I've bought and sold have either been at the same, or I've made a few bucks extra on them.

[Golden Arms]

Not all of the recent Yamato's have seen the huge discounts. The 1/60 Max Vf-1s, 1/60 TV VF-1S, and elintseeker are just a few that haven't shown up later as discounts. They sold, and haven't really been seen since. The toys that are getting 40-60% dicounts are based on molds that they've made plenty off (1/60 vf-1 and vf-22). It's really difficult to guage what will be available a year from now. I wouldn't be shcoked if the fire valk had a smaller production run because I'm sure there is a fair amount of retooling that will be necessary for the other 19 toys in the Mac7 line.

I think the only reason that Bandai and Yamato have been able to release improved toys later is because the initial release of their toys have sold well. If they tanked, there would be no justifiction to produce second runs or improved toys. It sucks that Bandai had to make a V2 to finally incorporate a lot of the changes that should've been in its initial toy release but atleast they are getting it right this second go around. Toy manufactures learn and get better over time. Yamato is case in point.

This had been said many a time on this board, but I think it bears repeating every once in a while. Toy collecting in general is horrble hobby to be in, if you are expecting monetary returns on your investments. Stocks are a much safer bet. Very few collectibles made today hold any value over time. Everything is mass produced and aimed at collectors, so nothing has any sustained value.

Only buy what you most enjoy.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Golden Arms

[Vi-RS]

Collecting Macross toys is not buying stocks, you enjoy your time with your toys and that's the value that you should perceive.

Like others have said, you are seeing lots of toys being offered at discounts because of bad economy. First thing you will think of is supply over demand, or demand is not as much as manufacturer is expecting. Yamato may have over estimated the initial run before the eonomy went bad, not many people have the disposable income to purchase these niche toys these days.

Yamato is decreasing the volumen of each production run. Lower production run means higher cost per unit so the price is passing to end consumer. HDP kit is a good sign of extremely low demand in market so it's meant to appreciate the hardcore fans, but not good enough to devote a major production run for average Macross fans.

[Reïvaj]

Collecting Macross toys is not buying stocks, you enjoy your time with your toys and that's the value that you should perceive.

Like others have said, you are seeing lots of toys being offered at discounts because of bad economy. First thing you will think of is supply over demand, or demand is not as much as manufacturer is expecting. Yamato may have over estimated the initial run before the eonomy went bad, not many people have the disposable income to purchase these niche toys these days.

Yamato is decreasing the volumen of each production run. Lower production run means higher cost per unit so the price is passing to end consumer. HDP kit is a good sign of extremely low demand in market so it's meant to appreciate the hardcore fans, but not good enough to devote a major production run for average Macross fans.

You've got a point.

[Golden Arms]

Yes Good points. Its better for retailers like HLJ to offer discounts rather than have tons of unsold stock occupying precious warehouse space. The macross toys aren't the only lines that they've been discounting. They've been having sales on a lot of different toys/models for the past year and half.

[eugimon]

Collecting Macross toys is not buying stocks, you enjoy your time with your toys and that's the value that you should perceive.

Like others have said, you are seeing lots of toys being offered at discounts because of bad economy. First thing you will think of is supply over demand, or demand is not as much as manufacturer is expecting. Yamato may have over estimated the initial run before the eonomy went bad, not many people have the disposable income to purchase these niche toys these days.

Yamato is decreasing the volumen of each production run. Lower production run means higher cost per unit so the price is passing to end consumer. HDP kit is a good sign of extremely low demand in market so it's meant to appreciate the hardcore fans, but not good enough to devote a major production run for average Macross fans.

yup. And the thing that collectors today don't seem to take into account is that back in the 50's, 60's - 80's, people weren't collecting stuff. So the few items that made it through the decades in good condition were rare because most people, gasp, read their comics, traded their baseball cards, played with their toys.

Now, everybody bags and boards their comics, saves boxes and stickers, etc. So even if we ignore what's going on in the world economy, there's just a lot more of this stuff out there that's in good condition and that will keep prices down.

If you want to invest, toys are not the best place to put your money.

[m0n5t3r]

If you want to invest, toys are not the best place to put your money.

true that!... plus collecting these toys and the qc issues that come with it whether out-of-the-box or after several years can mess with your psyche whenever you think about how much they're worth.

sometime last year i decided to not think at all about how much these toys cost me and what they're current worth would be... made me happier with what i have.

[boyarque]

yup. And the thing that collectors today don't seem to take into account is that back in the 50's, 60's - 80's, people weren't collecting stuff. So the few items that made it through the decades in good condition were rare because most people, gasp, read their comics, traded their baseball cards, played with their toys.

Now, everybody bags and boards their comics, saves boxes and stickers, etc. So even if we ignore what's going on in the world economy, there's just a lot more of this stuff out there that's in good condition and that will keep prices down.

If you want to invest, toys are not the best place to put your money.

Owh, how I agree with your statement there! Pretty much sum up the situation.

Look, if you buy toys and expect to make big bucks or strike it rich...you'll end up getting burned. All the high/exorbitant price u see in the market like ebay and such, mostly are speculative in nature. Transformers especially so.

For myself, from I was 6-7, have always been fascinated by anime with mechas....and Macross was love at first sight. I mean, that time, seeing a F-14 Tomcat lookalike sprouting arms and legs...it was simply an amazing site!

Only after I got a job of my own, do I manage to buy Macross and such as not only a collection, but something I play with and enjoy. In short, I buy what I buy because of passion...monetary values doe not mean much to me.

[ff95gj]

Enjoy your toys and stop thinking how much they worth after you paid the bill.

Hobbies are not meant to increase your wealth, but happiness.

[DarrinG]

yup. And the thing that collectors today don't seem to take into account is that back in the 50's, 60's - 80's, people weren't collecting stuff. So the few items that made it through the decades in good condition were rare because most people, gasp, read their comics, traded their baseball cards, played with their toys.

Now, everybody bags and boards their comics, saves boxes and stickers, etc. So even if we ignore what's going on in the world economy, there's just a lot more of this stuff out there that's in good condition and that will keep prices down.

If you want to invest, toys are not the best place to put your money.

So well said.

Can you imagine what it will be like when the lovers of these shows (us I suppose) are in their 60s and 70s?

Everyone will be selling MIB toys from 30 years ago and no one will be buying...

[m0n5t3r]

ha! my pyre will be made up of my toy collection...

[WRCfan]

Enjoy your toys and stop thinking how much they worth after you paid the bill.

Hobbies are not meant to increase your wealth, but happiness.

This!

[Vi-RS]

So well said.

Can you imagine what it will be like when the lovers of these shows (us I suppose) are in their 60s and 70s?

Everyone will be selling MIB toys from 30 years ago and no one will be buying...

Exactly.

When Macross first aired back in 84, the first wave fans were still kids and teens ranged from 5 to 15 years. Not everyone back then was lucky enough to get the 1/55 Takatoku or Bandai. Even if those who were lucky, they played with the toys and very few of them left MIB or MISB behind.

15 years later in 1999 or 2000, the price on these 1/55 appreciated ridiculously because kids back in 80s have grown up in their 20s ~ 30s were eagerly looking for these limited supply of antique toys.

The market value for these antique toys was ruined immediately when reissue or new version (Yamato) were released in early 2000.

Now everyone has multiple copies of Yamato products, but when they reach 60s or 70s, the value on these Yamato will not appreciate in any significant way like the Takatoku and Bandai did for two reasons: The first wave Macross fans are decreasing in their 70s but the market is full of these Yamato toys. It'd be actually cheaper to get these Yamato toys 30 or 40 years later because your grand kids wil be giving them away when you are gone. Take my grandpa's junks.

[kanedaestes]

Mine will go on a raft with me that will be set on fire with my body as it leaves off the coast when I die.

[Agent-GHQ]

First of all, you shouldn't be collecting toys for the sake of monetary gain. If it does appreciate in value, then good for you. I think it's retarded to invest your hard earn dollars in toys! It's meant to be played with so enjoy it because its not like you're going to take it with you when you die...

Like many MW members have mentioned, don't expect any future monetary gains as the 80s kids dwindles.

[Jasonc]

I think when I'm gone from this world, my ashes will be put into all my valkyries, and launched into space. Talk about piloting a Valkyrie in real life...kinda.

[Knightdramon]

Not everybody buys macross [or any other toys] to make money. Sometimes you buy a figure you thought you'd like, you play around, you don't like it, you try to at least make up what you paid for it.

Or sometimes emergencies come up and you need to come up with cash fast, and I personally found that selling toys is easier in that aspect than selling comics, video games and the likes.

Macross toys don't hold up their value. At all. Bandai or Yamato alike. I got a macross frontier, VF-0S, SV-51 and a DX VF-25 at 20-55% off each of them, sold them about a year later and still didn't get what I paid for. Because either the general [macross] market has started prioritizing which figures to buy at which price, so not everybody buys everything on sight, or both companies criminally overproduce each figure.

The VF-22 series [Max and Milia, especially] are always at 40-55% off at every japanese retail site I peek at. Up until six months ago, the SV-51s were at around 70% off. Most VF-1 V 2.0 are on 30-40% off every few months at hlj. Most of us that choose to wait it up or get into the game too late are greeted with those prices and sort of set a standard for what you're willing to pay. Couple that with the weak US economy\strong Yen rate and the fact that the vast majority of this board is situated in the US, you're faced with a hobby with artificially low prices.

The only recent figures that have actually gained in value are the 1/60 VF-1J Max and Milia, the Elintseeker, the SV-51 Ivanov and maaaaybe the Super Ostrich. Everything else can be found for half the price if one is willing to wait.

[Matt Random]

I dumped my whole Macross collection back when the rumors of the 1/60 VF-1 v.2 first started. Partly because my interested where shifting, partly because I was tired of the QC crap shoot and partly because I fed up with the constant relaunch of the new and improved version. I felt I did OK on recouping my investment. A lot of the v.1 1/60 went for near nothing whereas some of the 1/48s sold for well over what I paid. The old 1/72 Mac+ surprised me since I made quite a bit more on a couple of them then I paid. I held on the TRU 1/60 VF-1A CF since I knew that it would go for next to nothing and I had paid a small fortune for it. Overall, I cam close to breaking even so I was happy about that.

I then moved on the Hot Toys for a while. Oddly enough, I was driven away for the same reasons - questionable QC and incessant releases of improved versions. This time I got lucky since I started collecting HT a little before they really took off. Most everything I had bought held value or even increases 2-3x.

Note that I didn't buy either collection with the intent of selling it later. But when you do get tired of something and decide to sell it is nice to get something back to put back in the kitty for future purchases.

Now that I am back into Macross (I'm a sucker) I see a very different market. There is just too much stuff at this point. If the exact model or type that you want is too expensive there are plenty of near identical substitutes - many of which that may go for considerably less. How many VF-1 variations does one really need? The same goes for the VF-19, VF-22, VF-25, etc. And do I really need the same thing in 1/48, 1/60, 1/72 and 1/100 scale? I got plenty of odd looks from friends that came over and noticed I had the exact same thing in various sizes. Someone even made a comment about the Papa, Mama and Baby robot jet family. The persistent QC issues don't help either. I wouldn't consider the VF-25 V.1, most of the Zero line and much of the early VF-1 v.2 line due to known QC issues.

So my rambling aside, I prefer for my collectible toys to maintain some value but I never buy something with the express intent of later selling it for a profit. That is lunacy. Anything marketed as collectible most probably won't appreciate much since many of the people who buy it do so because it collectible. I won't be surprised if 20 years down the road that the most highly sought after collectibles will be Gameboys and iPods since these are the treasured possessions of children today.

[slaginpit]

I dumped my whole Macross collection back when the rumors of the 1/60 VF-1 v.2 first started. Partly because my interested where shifting, partly because I was tired of the QC crap shoot and partly because I fed up with the constant relaunch of the new and improved version. I felt I did OK on recouping my investment. A lot of the v.1 1/60 went for near nothing whereas some of the 1/48s sold for well over what I paid. The old 1/72 Mac+ surprised me since I made quite a bit more on a couple of them then I paid. I held on the TRU 1/60 VF-1A CF since I knew that it would go for next to nothing and I had paid a small fortune for it. Overall, I cam close to breaking even so I was happy about that.

I then moved on the Hot Toys for a while. Oddly enough, I was driven away for the same reasons - questionable QC and incessant releases of improved versions. This time I got lucky since I started collecting HT a little before they really took off. Most everything I had bought held value or even increases 2-3x.

Note that I didn't buy either collection with the intent of selling it later. But when you do get tired of something and decide to sell it is nice to get something back to put back in the kitty for future purchases.

Now that I am back into Macross (I'm a sucker) I see a very different market. There is just too much stuff at this point. If the exact model or type that you want is too expensive there are plenty of near identical substitutes - many of which that may go for considerably less. How many VF-1 variations does one really need? The same goes for the VF-19, VF-22, VF-25, etc. And do I really need the same thing in 1/48, 1/60, 1/72 and 1/100 scale? I got plenty of odd looks from friends that came over and noticed I had the exact same thing in various sizes. Someone even made a comment about the Papa, Mama and Baby robot jet family. The persistent QC issues don't help either. I wouldn't consider the VF-25 V.1, most of the Zero line and much of the early VF-1 v.2 line due to known QC issues.

So my rambling aside, I prefer for my collectible toys to maintain some value but I never buy something with the express intent of later selling it for a profit. That is lunacy. Anything marketed as collectible most probably won't appreciate much since many of the people who buy it do so because it collectible. I won't be surprised if 20 years down the road that the most highly sought after collectibles will be Gameboys and iPods since these are the treasured possessions of children today.

I think you understood my point that the others here haven't. I brought up the topic because I got tired of the version improvements and after collecting expensive Mac Frontier valks I find out later they are releasing a version 2.0 which is a slap in the face after they manufactured the whole bloody line. I haven't transformed my armored Ozuma in fear of breaking it and most likely they will release the entire line. Why didn't they fix it then!. It kills my spirit about collecting these nice birds. Dont get me wrong I have stocks and some "real" investments. But part of collecting also goes along with the value of the item you are collecting. Say you pay 200 dollars for a "toy" that ends up crumbling, breaking, or just doesn't measure up to standards. Who cares about production numbers. For the very fact its produced in smaller numbers than say transformers is the reason your paying more for its 1) quality and 2) exclusivity. I hold these collectables to higher standards. I do not believe overstock is responsible for HLJ and others price drops. When I got my SOC Mazinger with gloves, I really feel I got something that love was put into. Or, if you want to argue its complexity because of transformation, there are items such as CMs GGG which for me has held up pretty well. I dont know it just really bothers me when I see the Mac Quarter selling for less than half than what I bought it for and when I look at it on my shelf and sigh at how my little SOC Dragonar is holding up the canon because the quarter cant hold the cannon anymore and I have not touched it since it came to my house.

Edited August 11, 2011 by slaginpit

[sf648]

But part of collecting also goes along with the value of the item you are collecting.

I think there's a mis-conception here that stems from circumstances *outside* of the control of Yamato and Bandai. These items are generally designed, manufactured, and sold based on the Japanese economy, and are meant as toys. They are really nice toys meant for posing and display by teens and adults, but they are in no way advertised, marketed, or meant to serve as collectibles. It's the current *bad* exchange rates and always pricey overseas shipping costs that cause them to be seen as expensive collectibles outside of Japan.

When I first started buying Macross stuff in the 80's the exchange rate was just about $1.00 -> 250 yen. That would have made list price of the new v2 VF-25 around $56. Which frankly fits what it was manufactured to be -- a toy. Using the lowest 2010 japanese minimum wage that same VF-25 represents about 20 hours work. So a high school student with an after-school job might be able to afford two or three valks a month. I don't think Yamato or Bandai has ever really attempted to claim that these are somehow limited or collectible.

I buy these toys to display and enjoy. While I can see being disappointed that they're being re-issued, I still have had and enjoyed my toys for years in the meantime. Currently, I get to look slightly to the right of my monitor and see a 1/100 hi-metal VF-1S battroid poised to take out anyone who dares to sit in my chair. Once I couldn't have imagined a valkyrie toy holding that pose and looking so cool doing it. Because fans continually buy re-designs, we have brand new versions of toys from a show that aired almost 30 years ago. If the toys were never re-done, we'd be paying $1000+ for old, beat-up chunky monkeys.

Maybe 30 years from now they'll be selling self-transforming Macross F toys with tiny motors in them to my kids. How cool would that be!

Edited August 11, 2011 by sf648

[ae_productions]

I think when I'm gone from this world, my ashes will be put into all my valkyries, and launched into space. Talk about piloting a Valkyrie in real life...kinda.

Win. That's as close as we're probably going to get. Ha ha!

[Uxi]

I don't get the guys complaining about new versions... you'd be happier if we were still on 1/60 v1? I suppose in a perfect world, there wouldn't be v1 or v2 just the ultimate perfect version, but the success of the earlier lines is what allowed the improved versions to come out at all. If v1 1/60 had failed, it would have stopped there and we'd never have 1/48 or 1/60 Macross Plus, much less the 7 valks (which are mostly variants of Plus anyway).

Course, I've never been an early buyer on hardly anything, though I have bought a bunch. 1/48 I didn't get in until the Low-Viz. Didn't get my YF-19 until the FP bundle, which I I am perfectly happy with. One of the few I bought right away were the 1/60 YF-21 and Gamlin VF-22. Didn't get a 1/60v2 until the TV Roy. I would like a Basara VF-19... I was waiting to see if there's a Sound Booster bundle but now thinking I'd rather have the regular version on sale.

[Lolicon]

I'm very happy with the V1 VF-25 line. They made them awful enough that the thought of buying one never even crossed my mind, saving me hundreds of dollars that I can now use to buy the V2 line.

[boyarque]

Remember Transformers G1 toys, and how their value skyrocketed in the early 2000's? Then came the Encore series, which ultimately drives down the value of the G1 toys...now, that is a TKO to the face! And yes, came the Universe and Generation series which keeps the spirits and likeness of their G1 predecessor, but with improved articulation and sculpt...just a case sample.

I'm sorry, I just can't find the logic of lamenting why the manufacturers keep on fixing the 'issues' on the valks. For me, I welcome all the improvement, the fixes and the gimmicks they can add. On why it was not there in the first place, it may be simply there wasn't any at that particular time.

But hey, that's just me, a Macross mecha fanboy from the 80's, I'll take what new valk may come. If these kind of things do frustate you, then maybe Macross collecting is just not your 'thing'.

[eugimon]

If your argument is going to be they shouldn't release it until it's "perfect" then get ready for a whole lot of nothing.

Anyways, enjoy your hobby.

Edited August 12, 2011 by eugimon

[Reïvaj]

Would anybody be against Yamato, Bandai or someone else releasing new improved versions of the toys we already bought if they could do something like the one in this video?

Well, certainly not me!

Edited August 18, 2011 by Reïvaj

[wewe]

For me, anything made after the creation of RoHS should depreciate in value. Everything should corrode in time. I'm just happy that I get to play with toys. Happiness is the the only value that counts for me.

@ Reïvaj: That's a different hobby.

[anime52k8]

Would anybody be against Yamato, Bandai or someone else releasing new improved versions of the toys we already bought if they could do something like the one in this video?

Well, certainly not me!

I would. I'd much rather they spend their time and money making better transforming toys instead of crazy expensive RC planes.

Now I would be all for Yamato making an improved SV-51 that could support the weight of it's own accessories and had wings that stayed where the hell you put them for more than 5 seconds without collapsing.

[Reïvaj]

@ Reïvaj: That's a different hobby.

Really? No kidding! Thanks for observation, I hadn’t realized at all!

[Jasonc]

I think you understood my point that the others here haven't. I brought up the topic because I got tired of the version improvements and after collecting expensive Mac Frontier valks I find out later they are releasing a version 2.0 which is a slap in the face after they manufactured the whole bloody line. I haven't transformed my armored Ozuma in fear of breaking it and most likely they will release the entire line. Why didn't they fix it then!. It kills my spirit about collecting these nice birds. Dont get me wrong I have stocks and some "real" investments. But part of collecting also goes along with the value of the item you are collecting. Say you pay 200 dollars for a "toy" that ends up crumbling, breaking, or just doesn't measure up to standards. Who cares about production numbers. For the very fact its produced in smaller numbers than say transformers is the reason your paying more for its 1) quality and 2) exclusivity. I hold these collectables to higher standards. I do not believe overstock is responsible for HLJ and others price drops. When I got my SOC Mazinger with gloves, I really feel I got something that love was put into. Or, if you want to argue its complexity because of transformation, there are items such as CMs GGG which for me has held up pretty well. I dont know it just really bothers me when I see the Mac Quarter selling for less than half than what I bought it for and when I look at it on my shelf and sigh at how my little SOC Dragonar is holding up the canon because the quarter cant hold the cannon anymore and I have not touched it since it came to my house.

The thing here is, most of us do understand your point, but many of us just don't see our collections as monetarily as you do. I've had the Yamato 1/72 lines, the 1/60 v.1s, and some of the Bandai VF-25 v.1s, and I don't have a problem with innovative improvements to them in the future. It's why people bought DVD players after their VHS, and why people buy Blu-ray players now. Most people want better.

As for you being upset seeing an item you bought on sale for much less than what you paid, again, this is my opinion, but maybe you're thinking of these toys in only monetary terms. I don't buy my toys because I expect them to hold all the value the originally had, nor do I buy them to put my future children in school. I buy them because I love them, and love playing with them. I don't see the point in going into a rant because another fan of the franchise will get it for less. I'm just happy that there are people who can get the item, and enjoy it like I do. You maybe the type who either 1) Should wait about a year before buying a new release, or 2) Not buy them at all, as it seems you have a sense of disdain for the toys you have that are on sale.

[bluemax151]

I get the impression that slaginpit just feels like as an "early adopter" he has been gouged/taken advantage of, which is totally understandable. It's only natural to be disappointed if something you've purchased loses tremendous value in one large crash. The crashing American housing market comes immediately to mind.

That said I bought all the 22s at full price and I have seen them as low as 70%(?) off. While surely I'm a bit disappointed by those particular turn of events I think the piece of mind of not having to wait, hunt and hope I can get such a deal outweighs any other factors for me.