Yamato 1/60 VF-19S/F/P - All Variants

[Phalanix]

Off topic, but I just picked up the MP-13 Soundwave for nostalgic factors. Guess the VF-17 will have to wait.

[kaiotheforsaken]

My Soundwave should be on its way soonish. But my 19F arrived today, cant wait to get home and check it out.

Everyone's pictures of the 19P are making me debate getting that one too. I'm just not sure how many 19 toys I "need"

[Mommar]

My Soundwave should be on its way soonish. But my 19F arrived today, cant wait to get home and check it out.

Everyone's pictures of the 19P are making me debate getting that one too. I'm just not sure how many 19 toys I "need"

I get three of the same type so I can display them in each of the three modes... my sixteen VF-1's don't help that argument though.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Mommar

[kaiotheforsaken]

Alrighty, so I got to mess with my 19F when I got home and it is fantastic. Totally agree with Graham's feelings on this one. The color is gorgeous, the head sculpt is my favorite of any 19 and may be my favorite in all of Macross. All the joints on my F are nice and tight, even the ankles. Honestly it is probably the nicest Macross product I own and may be one of my favorite transforming toys ever. It is just a great great toy.

Nippon Yassan came through on the packing for this one too. The box was in good shape, plenty of newspaper and bubble wrap around the box. There wasn't a ding or scratch to be seen.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Sorry for the double post but I gotta ask. Is there some secret to getting the chest to lock down proper? I push the nose up until it clicks. But it seems like no matter how I try to angle the gullet, if it's pegged into the nose, there is a huge gap at the other end of the gullet.

It seems like the sides of the chest are supposed to tab into the round holes under the LERX, but I'll be damned if i can find the right way to get everything snug. All I know is a I see most people with their valks all nice and flush and I can't get it here. Neither Veefs vids nor the Yamato one seemed to shed light on what I'm not doing.

[jenius]

You're probably not getting the nosecone hinge perfect. The nosecone drops down away from the body, then you have to get it at the right angle and press it up and in so that the hinge within the nosecone slides forward. There's a pic of this in the instructions but it's easy to miss what's going on.

EDIT - I'll upload a transformation video now to help.

Edited January 25, 2013 by jenius

[kaiotheforsaken]

You're probably not getting the nosecone hinge perfect. The nosecone drops down away from the body, then you have to get it at the right angle and press it up and in so that the hinge within the nosecone slides forward. There's a pic of this in the instructions but it's easy to miss what's going on.

EDIT - I'll upload a transformation video now to help.

You totally called it. Between your description and the picture in the booklet I figured it out. It was just really finicky to get it to slide on both my Kai and my 19F. Thanks for that, had I gone off videos alone I'd have probably kept missing it.

Edited January 25, 2013 by kaiotheforsaken

[Loop]

I find the Yamato videos help quite a bit for new models they release. They take the time to show the complex steps multiple times in a slower fashion.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Loop

[jenius]

Glad that helped! The video is now available also:

100%

[Reïvaj]

Glad that helped! The video is now available also:

100%

Thanks for the video jenius!

Speaking of the gerwalk mode issue, I have to say I've always been able to achieve very aggressive gerwalk mode stances very easily, even with loose ankles -as both of my Kai's are:

[Mommar]

It's not just 'agressive' stances that are the problem. In general it isn't balanced well and you can't even do anything as basic as staggering one leg clicked back farther than the other. There is no dynamicism at all. It's highly static which I have not had problems with any of the other Valks. Plus, based on that pic, if you fold the arms forward it's going to want to face plant. Arms back is ablot more balanced.

[xrentonx]

Those ankles really are a pox on an otherwise great toy. They're also an eyesore.

[Reïvaj]

It's not just 'agressive' stances that are the problem. In general it isn't balanced well and you can't even do anything as basic as staggering one leg clicked back farther than the other. There is no dynamicism at all. It's highly static which I have not had problems with any of the other Valks. Plus, based on that pic, if you fold the arms forward it's going to want to face plant. Arms back is ablot more balanced.

No, that's not the case.

[kamadoma]

I have also been able to do an aggressive pose on my Kai way way back despite the loose ankles. I think the reason why I could hardly do it even on a new, tight VF-19P is that I don't want to pull the ankle joint any more than one or two clicks (they go as far as five clicks, right?). I just can't help but get annoyed seeing the thin ankle joint.

[Kicker773]

just push the ankles up a bit and it will look fine.

[derex3592]

Ordered both on Sunday afternoon...VF-17D from AmiAmi got here yesterday....19F (which I've wanted for soooo long)...from NY..stillll waaaaiiittiinnngg... WITH higher shipping cost I might add...

Edited January 26, 2013 by derex3592

[eriku]

The 17S is currently my favorite Yamato release, but damn if the 19P isn't almost tied.

It's by far my favorite color scheme and head for this VF. Such a perfect toy.

[eugimon]

what's this about the yf-19 unable to be posed in an aggressive gerwalk pose?

and the same valk standing on one leg despite the horrendously awful ankles...

[Mommar]

I never used the word aggressive when talking about how bad the ankles are.

[eugimon]

I never used the word aggressive when talking about how bad the ankles are.

really?

It's not just 'agressive' stances that are the problem. In general it isn't balanced well and you can't even do anything as basic as staggering one leg clicked back farther than the other. There is no dynamicism at all. It's highly static which I have not had problems with any of the other Valks. Plus, based on that pic, if you fold the arms forward it's going to want to face plant. Arms back is ablot more balanced.

and my pic? That's one leg back and one leg forward.

Edited January 26, 2013 by eugimon

[Chronocidal]

I'm anxiously awaiting the time when the 19P gets put on sale, because I'll probably buy three more to customize.

Despite the higher price, I've got more of the VF-19 than any other valk aside from the VF-1 (6 now ). Even with the problematic ankles, it's just a work of art.

[ErikElvis]

The 19's gerwalk looks good on a stand when you can point the legs a little more forward. Im not into the gerwalk when it has to stand on its own.

[Kicker773]

*hick* y'all stop using the word aggressive now, you hear! *hick*... damn too many henessy shots.

[anime52k8]

is aggressive our new drinking game?

[Graham]

I first posted these pics and similar comments months ago, when we last discussed the ankles on the VF-19 toys.

I've now got 7 x VF-19 toys in various flavours and don't have loose ankles on any of them. Admittedly Gerwalk is my least favourite mode and I seldom transform any of my toys into Gerwalk mode, but all of them have been in Gerwalk on occasion.

When I originally spoke to Yamato about the ankles, they told me that the ankle ball and socket on the first release VF-19Kai were only given a coat of paint so it was more difficult to control dimensional tolerances, plus paint will wear, so the ankles could lose easiier if over stressed. Later releases of the VF-19 had the ankle joint being metal plated which would make them tighter.

However, the only time I have heard members complaining of loose ankles on the VF-19 (please correct me if I'm wrong), is when they have deliberately over stressed the ankle joint pushing it past it's design limit in order to try to get a more 'aggressive' Gerwalk stance.

I've never tried to force the VF-19's ankles further than they are supposed to go and so the ankles on my toys are all nice and firm. I also think you can get a great looking Gerwalk mode without trying to force the ankles past their limits.

Just my 2 cents.

Graham

[Actar]

The sound booster looks akward in fighter mode. It only looks good in battroid mode IMO. I don't think we every say the Kai have it attached in fighter mode?

Anyways, I personally love the Gerwalk modes. It differentiates the Macross Valks from other transforming robots and has a really cool classic walker-type aesthetic. Not to mention, it's a pretty handy mode in actual combat situations as well, if you've played any of the Macross games.

Is this considered over-stressing the ankles? This is how I have my VF-19 Kai posed when it is in Gerwalk.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Actar

[Phalanix]

The 17S is currently my favorite Yamato release, but damn if the 19P isn't almost tied.

It's by far my favorite color scheme and head for this VF. Such a perfect toy.

Sweet sticker on the car!

[Mommar]

I still never started using that term. If you actually parse that sentence I say it isn't just that particular type of stance because it was never my complaint. Everyone still has this idea that they must defend this mode but the fact remains I have three 19's and all of them hardly hold the stance and are no fun to "pose" in that mode at all. Maybe I'm unlucky three times over but I have no problems with any other Yamato or Bandai Valk in Gerwalk except these three 19's.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Mommar

[Kicker773]

Damn "Aggressors"

<]~~~~ still recovering from the hangover.. ugh.. headache

What else did I miss?

7 xVF19??? Breakdown please....

[Reïvaj]

I still never started using that term. If you actually parse that sentence I say it isn't just that particular type of stance because it was never my complaint. Everyone still has this idea that they must defend this mode but the fact remains I have three 19's and all of them hardly hold the stance and are no fun to "pose" in that mode at all. Maybe I'm unlucky three times over but I have no problems with any other Yamato or Bandai Valk in Gerwalk except these three 19's.

I still never started using that term. If you actually parse that sentence I say it isn't just that particular type of stance because it was never my complaint. Everyone still has this idea that they must defend this mode but the fact remains I have three 19's and all of them hardly hold the stance and are no fun to "pose" in that mode at all. Maybe I'm unlucky three times over but I have no problems with any other Yamato or Bandai Valk in Gerwalk except these three 19's.

I still never started using that term. If you actually parse that sentence I say it isn't just that particular type of stance because it was never my complaint. Everyone still has this idea that they must defend this mode but the fact remains I have three 19's and all of them hardly hold the stance and are no fun to "pose" in that mode at all. Maybe I'm unlucky three times over but I have no problems with any other Yamato or Bandai Valk in Gerwalk except these three 19's.

I do not think you're unlucky three times, that would be very unlikely. Maybe you're just doing something wrong. What is certain is that this is not the best balanced Gerwalk not the nicest, but that is the fault of Mr. SK.

I do not think you're unlucky three times, that would be very unlikely. Maybe you're just doing something wrong. What is certain is that this is not the best balanced Gerwalk not the nicest, but that is the fault of Mr. SK.

I do not think you're unlucky three times, that would be very unlikely. Maybe you're just doing something wrong. What is certain is that this is not the best balanced Gerwalk not the nicest, but that is the fault of Mr. SK.

[Loop]

LOL.

LOL.

LOL.

[Chronocidal]

Ok, I know we've gone over this a bunch, but there's one KEY issue about these ankle joints that everyone seems to forget.

They are BALL joints. Ergo, ROUND. They should not loosen or tighten when moved in any direction inside their range of motion.

The very fact that they have to be "stretched" means that they aren't actually round. THAT is the problem with them.

When we talk about "stretching" them, we're not talking about going beyond their limits. We're talking about pushing them to where their limits SHOULD be. The fact that they can't do it? That's ENTIRELY a design problem.

Know what I want to see? A statement from Yamato's engineers who designed them, laying out exactly what the ankle's range of motion SHOULD be. I might actually go looking through the instructions for examples of how far they do it.

This issue is pretty much impossible to even solve without input from someone who helped design the ankle, just because everyone has different expectations of how far they think the ankles should move.

I'm going to have to dig out my camera and do some comparisons again.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Chronocidal

[Reïvaj]

Chronocidal, have you ever tried or succeeded in disassembling the ankle joint? I’m thinking about making a customization…

[Chronocidal]

Nope, I've never felt the urge to destroy it that far. I saw the spring pins involved in the toe and heel joints, and decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

Ok, pictures this time to describe exactly why this is such a stupid problem.

Here's what pose I can get if I push my 19's ankles to their natural mechanical limit.

This looks pretty darn good, like a gerwalk pose should look. The nose isn't digging into the ground, and it's perfectly stable on any surface I've tried (carpet, desk, etc.)

Here's what the ankle looks like while in that position.

This doesn't look the least bit unreasonable.

What I mean by the natural mechanical limit of the joint is how far a ball joint should move, before the post collides with the rim of the socket.

Long story short? The ankle doesn't work that way. If the ankle were actually shaped correctly, there shouldn't be anything stopping it from actually reaching those limits, just like every other ball joint Yamato has ever made.

Whether it's caused by lousy casting, misshapen plastic caps on the ball joints, or some overlooked issue involving differing stresses and material properties issues with the composite joint, the joint doesn't work correctly.

If it were actually a true spherical shape? This wouldn't be a problem. The only conclusion I can come up with as to why the ball changes tension all over the place is that either the ball or socket is just flat out misshapen.

I should also add.. they're not consistently misshapen. Playing with the ankles further on that particular VF-19F, I discovered that the left and right ankles had completely different ranges of motion. The left ankle can be pushed back much easier than the right, and is tighter overall, but the right ankle is very loose in the front half, and I can push the toe so far up he could do a decent crouching position in battroid.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Chronocidal

[xrentonx]

^^^^efb

Ok, I know we've gone over this a bunch, but there's one KEY issue about these ankle joints that everyone seems to forget.

They are BALL joints. Ergo, ROUND. They should not loosen or tighten when moved in any direction inside their range of motion.

The very fact that they have to be "stretched" means that they aren't actually round. THAT is the problem with them.

When we talk about "stretching" them, we're not talking about going beyond their limits. We're talking about pushing them to where their limits SHOULD be. The fact that they can't do it? That's ENTIRELY a design problem.

Know what I want to see? A statement from Yamato's engineers who designed them, laying out exactly what the ankle's range of motion SHOULD be. I might actually go looking through the instructions for examples of how far they do it.

This issue is pretty much impossible to even solve without input from someone who helped design the ankle, just because everyone has different expectations of how far they think the ankles should move.

I'm going to have to dig out my camera and do some comparisons again.

This exactly! If they were ball joints, the limitation should be where the ball actually meets the strut. Instead, we have a more oblong "ball." Gerwalk is not my favorite mode but the design of this joint...me no likey

Edited January 26, 2013 by xrentonx