Shoji Kawamori "created" Macross: load of bull?

[VF5SS]

What it comes down to is if you don't like something about Macross then you blame it on Kawamori. If you do like something, praise whoever happened to be next to Kawamori at the time. That's what those guys at Colony Drop do.

[Bri]

I actually like Macross 7 the most after the original. Zero and Frontier are garbage in my opinion, and Plus is extremely overrated -- ugly as hell character designs, unlikeable and unrelatable characters, a stupid story based on flashbacks. I mean, yeah, the mecha fight scenes were cool. Macross 7 was flawed, and too long, but it had the charm that the other sequels were missing. It also felt more like Macross with the Mikimoto character designs and all.

I don't dislike Zero and Frontier or Itsuwari no Utahime but I do find them to be more flawed in terms of balance and pacing than either SDFM or Macross 7. The latter two had experienced directors credited unlike the Satelight Macross works. Also other Kawamori directed works like Ajuna and Aquarion haven't had great ratings either. However I don't know how much influence the director has in comparison to the person in charge of the series composition, the storyboarders and the episode writers so it may not be due to any one individuals skills, but more a matter of budget or planning.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Bri

[Gubaba]

Whoa, that's interesting. Glad to see they're keeping the SDFM guys around. What did you think of Zero?

I liked it, ending included. But I'm notoriously uncritical when it comes to Macross, so don't listen to me.

Hmm. You know, I don't want to be a hater, but some of those episodes are not very good at all IMO... And also IIRC most of them were outsourced to Star Pro to be animated, which may mean that the staff felt they were on the weak side compared to some others. Who knows, though.

Edit -- Didn't he also write "Romanesque"? That was a good one. "Broken Heart" was terrible, though.

Nah, Tomita wrote "Romanesque." But I do think think the Ohnogi episodes, however badly animated, were good for character interaction.

What are you talking about it? Hiroshi Ohnogi totally wrote all of frontier after episode 18, that's why there are all those references to the SDF Novelization Ohnogi wrote! Isn't that right Gubaba?

Grrrrr...

What it comes down to is if you don't like something about Macross then you blame it on Kawamori. If you do like something, praise whoever happened to be next to Kawamori at the time. That's what those guys at Colony Drop do.

Yeah, that's pretty much what happens.

[TehPW]

does it really MATTER who did what? its not like our opinions matter to TPTB (this is more towards western fanboys as opposed to home guard Far Easterners who can voice their opinions more effectively, because they speak the language/understand the Kanji and interface with local forums with ease compared to most westerners, me included. but i try. ).

suffice to say, i dont single out specific names in the glorified who's butt is bigger contest, not my concern/interest. what i am interested is what they are planning next, if anything. no new TV show is gonna be worth anything if they dont come up with the supporting merchandice...

[EXO]

if you don't care then why post in this thread? This is a discussion forum with a specific topic. You're like a vegetarian in a BBQ restaurant asking why there's meat on every plate.

[Gui]

He's talking about the potential for Newtypes to reach an understanding with each other that transcends normal communication, and will end the need for war. Of course they always end up getting used as super pilots & kill each other before that can happen, but hey, it's bound to work eventually....

I refered to this interview. He used the word hope while talking about the bright colors of the 1/1 scale Gundam statue, not the newtypes – this was in another paragraph of his reply...

Though you may be right: this guy talks in a rather cryptic way somtimes (unless it's a question of translation in the present case...) and I may need to reread this interview more carefully.

[Gubaba]

does it really MATTER who did what? its not like our opinions matter to TPTB (this is more towards western fanboys as opposed to home guard Far Easterners who can voice their opinions more effectively, because they speak the language/understand the Kanji and interface with local forums with ease compared to most westerners, me included. but i try. ).

suffice to say, i dont single out specific names in the glorified who's butt is bigger contest, not my concern/interest. what i am interested is what they are planning next, if anything. no new TV show is gonna be worth anything if they dont come up with the supporting merchandice...

To me, it's not really a contest, more an effort to figure out who did what. I mean, these people made work that we all love, right? So why not give them a little thanks back?

[Shaorin]

To me, it's not really a contest, more an effort to figure out who did what. I mean, these people made work that we all love, right? So why not give them a little thanks back?

INDEED.

any way one tries to slice it, it was Kawamori-san, pretty much by himself, using his professional-grade aerospace engineering skills,

that drafted up one of the most remarkably realistic, believable variable Mecha designs, a timelessly enduring piece

of mechanical engineering that has yet to be matched, nearly 30 full years on.

hell, it has taken every one of those thirty years worth of technological advancement

for toy and model engineers to be able to render three-dimensional replicas of Kawamori's amazing design

that actually accurately follow and pay justice to his original, three-decade old design drafts.

now if that isn't engineering way ahead of it's time, i do not have the slightest clue what is...

Edited July 11, 2011 by Shaorin

[valkyriechild]

VF's and whole macross universe, he even wrote the lyrics for "Koi wa Dogfight". I say he is a god.

If there are other people we should say thanks to, i think i want to say thank you to all the composers in the series such as Yoko Kanno and Miki Yamano.

[Zinjo]

The way I understand it, Kawamori is credited with the series creation because it was his concepts the Nue team developed and particularly because he was responsible for writing the story outlines for the majority of the show's episodes (something he continues to do even today). He was also the chief director for the variable fighter sequences, which stands to reason since he understood best how they worked.

To assert he is the sole creator of the franchise is a bit too simplistic. I tend to agree that it was Studio Nue that created the show based on concepts and ideas from Kawamori, Mikimoto, et al.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

all i know is that MASAHARU KAWAMORI (pen name of "Shoji" Kawamori is the man 100% responsible for the VF-1 series, which i personally consider to be

THE greatest Mecha design ever drafted, variable form or otherwise.

i am quite sure that there are many more out there that feel at least nearly as strongly about that as i do,

and, even if the facts of his ACTUAL involvement in SDF MAC./DYRL are actually overblown and abused, it is nonetheless most accurate

in respect to the fact that, in actuality, Kawamori's VF-1 is, for all true intents and purposes, MACROSS itself.

let's face it people; SDF MACROSS was and is a terrific series, and was an actual phenomenon in Japan for a brief period,

and there was singular, unique aspect of the series that was (and pretty much still is) almost entirely (if not entirely)responsible

for MACROSS' rabid popularity back then, as well as it's enduring popularity thirty years on.

that unique aspect happens to be none other than Kawamori-san's original brainchild, the VF-1 "Valkyrie" Variable Fighter.

let's be honest; viewed in that context, Kawamori-san truly WAS the creator of MACROSS.

his design singlehandedly made the series take off like the proverbial supersonic jet.

without his indispensable real-world engineering fueled influence, "BATTLE CITY MEGAROAD"/"MACBETH" (as SDF MACROSS was billed during it's early development stages)

would have very likely never made it off the drawing board, and if it actually had, would have been likely to have been buried to death

and quickly forgotten amongst the torrential flood of "Real Mecha" series being poured forth into the Anime industry at the time,

M.S. GUNDAM leading the charge as it always traditionally has.

bearing all of this in mind, anyone should be able to see why Kawamori-san is generally regarded by fans as the "Father of MACROSS"

as great as the combined staff of SDF MAC. was, it was Kawamori and his design concepts that singlehandedly gave the MACROSS project

it's "Killer App" which was an ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL element needed to enable the series to stand out, and make the unique and undeniable mark

in the industry and in the audiences' minds that it has.

any way that you slice it, this is THE absolutely invaluable linchpin element in any successful Movie and/or T.V. series production,

and MACROSS was/is no different...

When humans finally discover how to recreate the effect of anti gravity, I sugest a statue is made of shoji kawamori's head that floats off the ground and has the staff of the original show bowing down to it worshipping the head. It would be far more interesting to me than the gundam 1:1 statue (or the chinese knock off that had to get changed so it looked different).

VF-1 still looks good today. I own more VF-1 toys than any other mecha. And its one of the designs that still looks good in 3 modes. Although the ship being transformable was pretty cheesy idea to me. hehe This is one of the things I think doesn't need to be in future macross tv shows after the first one.

In the tv show the reason the SDF-1 had to transform was due to getting power to the gun so it could fire. This was because in the first show all the mistakes the people onboard the ship were making because they were not sure how te alien technology worked, but the macross ships having to transform in later shows isn't explained well.

Transforming can kill people who don't make it to the safety zones in time. It was hilarious to see a guy getting his head chopped off as one of the doors slammed shut, but it might be better to have dedicated giant robot ships rather than transforming ones imo. All it will do is add a delay to firing a gun.

Edited July 15, 2011 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Keith]

Transforming wasn't a necessity for firing the gun in the Macross Class & New Macross Class (as shown by Battle 25), but it does have three advantages.

1-All range firing, that gunship can be fired in virtually any direction.

2-PINPOINT BARRIER PUNCH!/DAEDELUS ATTACK!

3-The Gunship is ejectable in case of an emergency.

As for the time it takes to transform, that's negligable, especially since the tranformation usualy goes on while the gunship is still charging. Also, it looks pretty freakin' cool, so STFU.

[Shaorin]

When humans finally discover how to recreate the effect of anti gravity, I sugest a statue is made of shoji kawamori's head that floats off the ground and has the staff of the original show bowing down to it worshipping the head. It would be far more interesting to me than the gundam 1:1 statue (or the chinese knock off that had to get changed so it looked different).

VF-1 still looks good today. I own more VF-1 toys than any other mecha. And its one of the designs that still looks good in 3 modes. Although the ship being transformable was pretty cheesy idea to me. hehe This is one of the things I think doesn't need to be in future macross tv shows after the first one.

In the tv show the reason the SDF-1 had to transform was due to getting power to the gun so it could fire. This was because in the first show all the mistakes the people onboard the ship were making because they were not sure how te alien technology worked, but the macross ships having to transform in later shows isn't explained well.

Transforming can kill people who don't make it to the safety zones in time. It was hilarious to see a guy getting his head chopped off as one of the doors slammed shut, but it might be better to have dedicated giant robot ships rather than transforming ones imo. All it will do is add a delay to firing a gun.

ehhh, you think too much, pal. there is a reason why MACROSS' genre is referred to as Science FICTION...

Edited July 15, 2011 by Shaorin

[Reïvaj]

I don't know whether this is usefull or not but I guess his profile is the official one: http://www.satelight.co.jp/kawamori/#toy

[renegadeleader1]

INDEED.

any way one tries to slice it, it was Kawamori-san, pretty much by himself, using his professional-grade aerospace engineering skills,

that drafted up one of the most remarkably realistic, believable variable Mecha designs, a timelessly enduring piece

of mechanical engineering that has yet to be matched, nearly 30 full years on.

hell, it has taken every one of those thirty years worth of technological advancement

for toy and model engineers to be able to render three-dimensional replicas of Kawamori's amazing design

that actually accurately follow and pay justice to his original, three-decade old design drafts.

now if that isn't engineering way ahead of it's time, i do not have the slightest clue what is...

Too bad the toy guys had to fix the problem of where the legs connect that Kawamori somehow overlooked 30 years ago

[Reïvaj]

Too bad the toy guys had to fix the problem of where the legs connect that Kawamori somehow overlooked 30 years ago

Actually, he didn’t overlook it, but I guess his approach to the problem wasn’t really a solution for the toy makers…

Source: http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie.htm

[Kronnang Dunn]

No, that was all Miyatake. Although the movie version of the Nousjadeul Ger was designed by guest mecha designer Yutaka Izubuchi, he of subsequent "Patlabor" fame.

A.F.A.I.K. Miyatake designed each and every Zentradi and Meltrandi spaceship and mecha, except the Regults and the Glaug, which were Kawamori's doing...

Edited August 6, 2011 by Kronnang Dunn

[Renato]

A.F.A.I.K. Miyatake designed each and every Zentradi and Meltrandi spaceship and mecha, except the Regults and the Glaug, which were Kawamori's doing...

Except for the Zentradi power suit from DYRL, though. Izubuchi re-interpreted Miyatake's TV original for the movie version.

The English Wikipedia page on him is just a bare-bones profile and doesn't mention it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutaka_Izubuchi

But the Japanese one does:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%87%BA%E6%B8%95%E8%A3%95#.E3.83.87.E3.82.B6.E3.82.A4.E3.83.B3.E3.83.AF.E3.83.BC.E3.82.AF.E3.82.B9

(edited for clarity)

Edited August 6, 2011 by Renato

[mr.chogokin]

I don't know about you guys, but I thank God for Ishiguro's leadership in both SDF and DYRL. Till today, those two are FRUIT-FREE. After having the privilege to watch both, I was ready to die. Although I'm thankful I'm still alive today, I can't say I appreciate watching Mac II, Plus, 7, Zero or Frontier. They should've continued with Ishiguro's leadership. He's the reason why the original tv series and movie are FRUIT-FREE.

[VF5SS]

Be a good boy and eat your fruit.

[Renato]

They should've continued with Ishiguro's leadership. He's the reason why the original tv series and movie are FRUIT-FREE.

That likely wouldn't have happened anyway: Ishiguro in general hates doing sequels. Notice he also opted out of Megazone 23 Part II.

[Keith]

I don't know about you guys, but I thank God for Ishiguro's leadership in both SDF and DYRL. Till today, those two are FRUIT-FREE. After having the privilege to watch both, I was ready to die. Although I'm thankful I'm still alive today, I can't say I appreciate watching Mac II, Plus, 7, Zero or Frontier. They should've continued with Ishiguro's leadership. He's the reason why the original tv series and movie are FRUIT-FREE.

Your Lagann icon is revoked!

[UN Spacy]

Jeez. I love Ishiguro and all but he's had a few misses every now and then.

I absolutely hated Tytania...but I'm not really sure if he deserves the blame.

[Reïvaj]

Jeez. I love Ishiguro and all but he's had a few misses every now and then.

I absolutely hated Tytania...but I'm not really sure if he deserves the blame.

He he... I know what you mean

[Einherjar]

It's so simple!

Macross - Kawamori = Macross II

Macross II = Fail (I like the char/mecha designs tho)

/endthread

Please indulge me for this one time. On the other side of the world:

Macross - Kawamori - Ishiguro - Mikimoto - etc. = The Sentinels

The Sentinels = Epic Fail

That's literally what happens when all of them are out of the equation and replaced by random people trying to do the same thing.

[Zinjo]

Actually, he didn't overlook it, but I guess his approach to the problem wasn't really a solution for the toy makers…

Source: http://www.macross2....1a-valkyrie.htm

Actually he kind of revisited the sequence in Macross Zero by adding the pillars to support the leg nacelles during transformation.

He could add those same pillars to the VF-1 by just suggesting it to Mikimoto for the the Macross First Manga...

We all know, he is not afraid of ret-con... to his credit IMHO.

[Zinjo]

Transforming wasn't a necessity for firing the gun in the Macross Class & New Macross Class (as shown by Battle 25), but it does have three advantages.

1-All range firing, that gunship can be fired in virtually any direction.

2-PINPOINT BARRIER PUNCH!/DAEDELUS ATTACK!

3-The Gunship is ejectable in case of an emergency.

As for the time it takes to transform, that's negligable, especially since the tranformation usualy goes on while the gunship is still charging. Also, it looks pretty freakin' cool, so STFU.

I was so grateful to see the gunship fire while Battle 25 was still in Carrier mode in MF!

I was so damned tired of seeing the gunship used exclusively in Attacker mode in M7. It gave a few on this board the false impression that was the only way it could be used...

Yes there are advantages of using the gunship that way, but dis-advantages too.

[frothymug]

I loooove the firing sequences in both MacF episode 18 and the first movie. I especially loved the sequence in the movie because you could actually see Battle 25's engines burst a split second before the buster cannon fired. I LOVE that kind of attention to detail, which is why I love this series so much.

[nanoplasm]

Yes there are advantages of using the gunship that way, but dis-advantages too.

Like, getting shot by your own gunship because someone jacked it from you?

[frothymug]

Hey now... watch it with the spoilers. Some of us haven't seen the second movie yet.

[Gubaba]

Hey now... watch it with the spoilers. Some of us haven't seen the second movie yet.

No one's talking about the second movie...you can relax.

[frothymug]

Oh yeah... that happened in one of the Playstation games, didn't it? I thought it was an allusion to an event in the second movie. My bad.

[hulagu]

Oh yeah... that happened in one of the Playstation games, didn't it? I thought it was an allusion to an event in the second movie. My bad.

I don't think that actually happened in either VF-X either?

Are the New Macross class gunship Macross Cannons self contained or do they tap their Macross' power supply to fire? I thought it was the latter.

[sketchley]

I don't think that actually happened in either VF-X either?

Are the New Macross class gunship Macross Cannons self contained or do they tap their Macross' power supply to fire? I thought it was the latter.

The Gunships? They're both. Capable of independent (fold) navigation and firing, but require the Battle class's power supply for the truly devastating shots.

[Radd]

Generally, any movie/tv series is going to be a collaborative effort, it is simply impossible for a single person to write, direct, produce a full movie/tv series on a reasonable timetable with the quality people expect.

This, however, does not mean that you cannot single out a person as the main creative force driving the production. Be it the writer, the director, the producer, what have you. Just the opposite, most of the best shows/movies do have such a driving personality energizing the production.

If all the major players in the production team defer to Kawamori as that main creative force, that's good enough for me.