kajnrig Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 I just see "Darling in the FranXX," and then I see this recc'ed, and then I share. Someone let me know how right or not this is. Quote
Stampeed Valkyrie Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 OK first off.. I want my 18 or so minutes back from watching that video... If I wanted my anime to be realistic.. I'd be watching TV.. and on top of that if i wanted to analyze and use logic to decipher problems.. I'd be at work... again Anime.. not real.. nuff said. Needless to say.. there are some good points made in regards to general plot progression.. however since this video was made before the latest episode (ep.20 as of this post) some of what he critiques is already obsolete. However after episode 20 at this point even I am trying to figure out what the hell I just watched.. Quote
kajnrig Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 Finished FMP IV episode 8. Reveal hidden contents Pacing is as brisk as ever, but I think the directing chops (and/or the budget) are straining to keep up. The sudden and weird Macross-style song insert during Sousuke's one-man assault was... well, sudden and weird. I almost laughed out loud from just how bizarre that moment was. There are a couple times Sousuke repeats the same line, and it sounds like they literally just played the same recording twice within five seconds of each other. The script was definitely not one of this episode's strong points. Having Nami be little more than a refrigerator girl is disappointing; they could have better spent the run time on other, more plot-central elements if they were just going to kill her off. Kurama dying so soon (we still have four episodes to go) was also kind of jarring. The energy of the series seems to come and go in four-episode bursts or thereabouts; maybe it's just following the books, but it's still not ideal. The "Amalgam Gets Serious" arc loses all momentum with the sudden switch to Namsac. The Namsac plot itself gets a nice couple episodes to settle in before abruptly ending in a firefight here, and now the show has to again establish a new plot line in a new setting within an extremely limited time frame. They definitely could have done a better job adapting all three plotlines into a single cohesive story. That said, I'm still 100% on board, can't wait to see the next episode. Quote
Gerli Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 Since Code Geass we don't see a meme generator like Franxx... OMG Pregnista is real Quote
Focslain Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) On 6/10/2018 at 6:57 AM, kajnrig said: I just see "Darling in the FranXX," and then I see this recc'ed, and then I share. Someone let me know how right or not this is. Expand On 6/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, Stampeed Valkyrie said: OK first off.. I want my 18 or so minutes back from watching that video... If I wanted my anime to be realistic.. I'd be watching TV.. and on top of that if i wanted to analyze and use logic to decipher problems.. I'd be at work... again Anime.. not real.. nuff said. Needless to say.. there are some good points made in regards to general plot progression.. however since this video was made before the latest episode (ep.20 as of this post) some of what he critiques is already obsolete. However after episode 20 at this point even I am trying to figure out what the hell I just watched.. Expand MB's batting average is meh. Haven't seen ep 20 but if most of his critiques are invalided that is a good sign that Franxx is heading up and not down as (per the video) ep 19 was a low point. Personally I found it akin to ep 19 of Delta when Berger gives a brief history lesson of the franchise and before Seto drops in, yes I know some/most of the stuff he was spewing was wrong. If we take his critiques on just ep 19, yeah he has a lot of valid points. The episode itself was really not needed, at all and opened a lot of plot holes. Edited June 11, 2018 by Focslain Quote
Petrov27 Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) Franxx is an odd one indeed yet I find myself enjoying the WTF moments of which there are many..... Thought this was a good interpretation sourced from the Crunchyroll forum (poster Sentinel-Wraith) of where the last episode has left things - all quite simple really (lol) - major spoilers: Reveal hidden contents Earth once had an ancient civilization known as the Klax Sapiens living on the planet. At some time in the past, an alien faction known as VIRM attempted to harvest the earth. Considering that VIRM+APE=VAMPIRE, it's fairly evident they plan on leaching something. Either way, they were repulsed by the Klax and the earth was saved. At some point in time afterwords the Klax civilization split. The female Klax sacrificed themselves to become the Klaxxosaur bioweapons and the male Klax became magma cores to help fuel the bioweapons. Only the Klaxxosaur Princess survived in her original state and oversaw the protection of earth and possibly the hiding of her civilization's ruins. Humanity likely branched off from the Klax in the past and progressed to the modern age without any knowledge of the Klax or VIRM. At some point between 1990-2020, VIRM agents infiltrate the various human governments and subvert them with promises of immortality and profit. Using techniques gleaned from the aliens, humanity begins harvesting "magma energy", evidently unaware that they are actually distilling male Klax lifeforce instead of a previous untapped geothermal energy hiding in lava. VIRM gradually gains complete control over society through APE and slowly begins altering humanity to make them easier to assimilate by attempting to remove sexuality, reproduction, emotions, individuality, and natural evolution from humans. VIRM also plots to seize a Klax defensive superweapon known as "Star Entity" as a bonus for their plans of galactic conquest. Humanity and VIRM's energy harvesting causes some sort of damage to the Earth and rapid desertification occurs over much of the planet. In response, the dormant Klaxosaurs are ordered by the Princess to attack humanity and their VIRM puppet masters in order to stop further decay. VIRM/APE supports Dr FranXX's research as a means to fight the Klaxx and to secretly create a countermeasure for controlling Star Entity. Due to the related nature of humans and Klaxxosaurs, test tube babies known as "parasites" are injected with Klaxxosaur Yellow Blood Cells (YBC) in an effort to allow them to psionically control the Franxx mechs. As the Franxx mechs are actually gutted female Klax bodies, only woman are biologically able to link with the mind of the Franxx mech. However, as the mechs are basically giant monsters with a control panel, the strain is too much for a single human to control and subdue. Mimicking the Male/Female Klax bond, males are used as a substitute for the Klaxosaur magma cores and act as psionic ballast for the female pilots, preventing the Klaxxosaur from reawakening in "STAMPEDE MODE". Squads like the 9's indicate this can be subverted with males piloting together and females acting as stamens, though it's unclear if this is because they were neutered, really genderless, Klax Hybrids, or VIRM hybrids. YBC also mutates the Parasites into various levels of Klax Hybrid. After the tragic death of his wife, Franxx becomes obsessed with Klaxosaurs. He envisions the species as the future of the world and engages in a variety of experiments mutating himself while also creating a clone of the Klaxosaur Princess known as 002. He secretly begins working against APE by using Squad 13 as an evolutionary experiment and manipulates Hiro and 002. 002 infects Hiro and he begins transforming into a male Klax Sapiens. APE misses this and simply accepts the fluke as an unexpected bonus of an unkillable co-pilot for 002. APE sends delegates to the Klax princess in order to try and force her to surrender Star Entity. However, she counters by revealing the existence of VIRM to the human members of the APE delegation, who are utterly stunned at the revelations. Tasier, the third VIRM agent, attempts to stop her, but she easily kills him and then proceeds to mercy kill the remaining delegation. With this failure, APE decides to use 002 as the "backup key" for operating Star Entity. However, the Princess reveals that she's aware of Hiro's mutation and apparently accelerates his infection with a kiss before snagging him as psychic ballast and a possible magma core substitute. She attempts to activate Star Entity but it's somehow been corrupted by VIRM in the meanwhile, turning it into a planet killer bomb. Having been exposed, the VIRM agents decide to cut losses and completely destroy the earth, humanity, Star Entity, and the Hringhorni weapon. With the Klax Princess compromised, 002 likely remains the only other female Klax Sapiens in existence and will probably have to surrender the remnants of her humanity to become 001's replacement. Honestly, I wasn't horribly shocked by the events. Episode 17 established that APE had non-human members and Episode 19 revealed that PAPA, VICE, and TASIER weren't human. I think aliens make more sense than an AI SKYNET infiltration in the 1990-2020 period, especially when you take into the account the massive technological revolution Reveal hidden contents Edited June 11, 2018 by Petrov27 Quote
Hikaru Ichijo SL Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 I watched kotonoha no niwa (Garden of words) and I really liked it. Quote
frothymug Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 My gf and I have been watching Shokugeki no Soma and we love it. In the middle of season 3 right now. On my own, I'm watching LoGH, Yamato 2022, and SAOA: GGO. I'll get into the new season when I finish up some of my current shows. Quote
grss1982 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) On 5/5/2018 at 3:03 PM, kajnrig said: I'm catching up on FMP IV, and... three major complaints: 1) Xebec is no KyoAni. The animation is technically impressive but incohesive. And hoo boy did they cut corners on that car chase. 2) A bit of a nitpick, but one that everyone gets wrong: The shot cannon used by Mao isn't a shotgun, it's a pump-action rifle that fires the same rounds as the automatic rifles the M9s use. The reason Sousuke uses it primarily is because of his experience as a guerrilla fighter in Afghanistan/Helmajistan, where its and/or similar weapons' simpler mechanics and ability to quickly load different types of ammunition compared to an automatic made it a versatile tool for him. Most games and even animation gets it wrong, though, and treats it as just a shotgun because it looks like a shotgun. 3) The characterization is really... odd, all around. Chidori gets it the worst of them all; she's bothered by things that didn't bother her before (or that she at least came to terms with before), she's more timid and flaky than she was before... It's as if the events of TSR never happened. Everyone feels a bit more like stock anime characters than before. Speaking of which, this season's writing is much more generically anime than Fumoffu or TSR, which is further disappointing. (Kaname and Sousuke's awkwardly contrived conversation at the end of episode 3, for instance. It's even capped off by the usual hammy mamoru declaration.) EDIT: oh also they need mikuni shimokawa back EDIT 2: Are they actually calling the ASes "mechs"? Could just be the subtitles... Expand There's also one thing bothering me from FMP IV. The Alastor. Why the shock on Souske's face upon seeing two of them in the apartment with you know who? Didn't he or his team not encounter it in a "Die Hard in a boat" incident that was in the book? Or was that part not animated at all? The animation by the way is odd for some reason. Made me wish KyoAni was doing this. Heck it would even be better if the group that did FMP I did the animation. BUT, I'm still happy to see more FMP animated. Edited June 19, 2018 by grss1982 Quote
grss1982 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) On 5/16/2018 at 2:52 AM, eXis10z said: Besides FMP and gundam, are there any nice mecha anime you guys would recommend in the past 1-2 years or currently running? Expand A bit older. But you could give Cross Ange a try. Word of warning it's a bit jarring at the start. https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=cross+angie&oq=cross+angie&aqs=chrome..69i57.2335j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Also. Gundam Thunderbolt. Not exactly a series more of an ONA/OVA/OAV. But it has mobile suits. Edited June 19, 2018 by grss1982 Quote
JB0 Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 10:13 AM, kajnrig said: Apparently Darling in the Franxxx has mecha? Expand Occasionally. Quote
SuperHobo Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 7:44 AM, grss1982 said: There's also one thing bothering me from FMP IV. The Alastor. Why the shock on Souske's face upon seeing two of them in the apartment with you know who? Didn't he or his team not encounter it in a "Die Hard in a boat" incident that was in the book? Or was that part not animated at all? The animation by the way is odd for some reason. Made me wish KyoAni was doing this. Heck it would even be better if the group that did FMP I did the animation. BUT, I'm still happy to see more FMP animated. Expand The "Die Hard in a boat incident" was not animated. On the one hand I think KyoAni can animate well, after the work on FMP years ago the president of KyoAni claimed TSR tired them out and would probably not animate mechs again (which has been true for the past 13 years). After watching Violet Evergarden I think KyoAni would have added a lot of unnecessary changes to FMP instead of straight up adapting the source material like Xebec is doing. Additionally, KyoAni's night scenes in Violet Evergarden were so poorly lit you could not see what was happening. Why draw all of these amazing frames of animation when you can't see most of what is happening? Xebec did a good job on lighting all of the night scenes during the Burning One Man Force arc in IV. On the other hand, I'm not quite use to the redesigns Xebec used for the characters in FMP IV. They're like a hybrid of their former anime and manga incarnations, leaning closer to their manga designs. What I do appreciate most about this Xebec adaptation is their attention to mechanical detail on close-ups on any of the arm-slaves, guns, cars, engines etc. Quote
Major Focker Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 was watching S;G Zero ep.8 when a massive thunderclap from out of nowhere shook my windows, just when Kurisu sent a D-mail. did the worldline change? have to investigate. El. Psy. Kongroo. Quote
hachi Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 10:13 AM, kajnrig said: Apparently Darling in the Franxxx has mecha? Expand I thought it was a mecha show? Though I only saw the first episode and didn't continue as I felt it was not my type of mecha show. Quote
Hikaru Ichijo SL Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 I finished Ouran High School Host Club it was good but I like my Harems the other way. Quote
Focslain Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 7:19 PM, Hikaru Ichijo SL said: I finished Ouran High School Host Club it was good but I like my Harems the other way. Expand It's rare to find reverse harems, Ouran Host Club is a good series. That reminds me I have to finish watching Brother Complex. Quote
grss1982 Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 4:00 PM, SuperHobo said: The "Die Hard in a boat incident" was not animated. On the one hand I think KyoAni can animate well, after the work on FMP years ago the president of KyoAni claimed TSR tired them out and would probably not animate mechs again (which has been true for the past 13 years). After watching Violet Evergarden I think KyoAni would have added a lot of unnecessary changes to FMP instead of straight up adapting the source material like Xebec is doing. Additionally, KyoAni's night scenes in Violet Evergarden were so poorly lit you could not see what was happening. Why draw all of these amazing frames of animation when you can't see most of what is happening? Xebec did a good job on lighting all of the night scenes during the Burning One Man Force arc in IV. On the other hand, I'm not quite use to the redesigns Xebec used for the characters in FMP IV. They're like a hybrid of their former anime and manga incarnations, leaning closer to their manga designs. What I do appreciate most about this Xebec adaptation is their attention to mechanical detail on close-ups on any of the arm-slaves, guns, cars, engines etc. Expand Spot on about the mechanical details. I dig them too. By the way just saw episode 8 and I thought there was some significance to the number eight in EPISODE 8. Quote
Gerli Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 10:13 AM, kajnrig said: Apparently Darling in the Franxxx has mecha? Expand Preggnista is one of them Quote
Stampeed Valkyrie Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Just for the heck of it, I watched Knights of Sidonia.. I expected it to suck.. and was pleasantly surprised when it did not! They left it hanging though.. which I found annoying.. and several major plot points left unresolved... season 3 maybe? Quote
Dynaman Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 6:21 PM, Stampeed Valkyrie said: Just for the heck of it, I watched Knights of Sidonia.. I expected it to suck.. and was pleasantly surprised when it did not! They left it hanging though.. which I found annoying.. and several major plot points left unresolved... season 3 maybe? Expand I've been hoping, for years now... Quote
kajnrig Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 FMP Episode 9, done. Reveal hidden contents I still hate that they call the Arm Slaves "mecha," though again that might just be in the subtitles. The way Xebec animates mecha combat really is better-suited to the third-gen ASes that duke it out here than the second-gen ASes that Sousuke et al were using the last few episodes. The older ASes are supposed to be a bit clumsy, a bit rudimentary, and the smooth animation didn't really get that across. The Falke and Codarl dancing around each other, on the other hand, is entirely believable. The animation outside of that is really on a tight budget, and there's an extended, largely still shot that exhibits a glaring animation error - a relatively tall character is drawn the same height as a short character - and hopefully that'll be corrected in the DVD/BD release. Story-wise, it's still going too fast for the story it's telling, but it's still also enjoyable enough. So... yeah. Looking forward to next week. Quote
Hikaru Ichijo SL Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) I watched High School DXD Hero 11 and damn did it live up to my expectations. Cardinal Crimson Queen is so beautiful. Edited June 26, 2018 by Hikaru Ichijo SL Quote
Big s Posted June 29, 2018 Posted June 29, 2018 I’ve been noticing the term mech popping up more often in anime subs and dubs. Back in the day it was mecha as a general term for most shows, but I don’t really if this is just on dubs and subs or if this is the way they are in the original language since I only know English. Quote
Stampeed Valkyrie Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 Wrapped up Beatless and meh.. while not bad it never reached its potential and while technically it didn't have an ending the later episodes really fell apart with the plot going off the rails. It's hinted there is more... but I'm not holding my breath. DxD Hero.. I can't say this series is not predictable. While episode 11 was good, the series is still failing to catch the first season in regards to overall quality. But at least Hero is leaps and bounds over the last 2 seasons. FMP.. The animation quality is pretty bad.. its not even worth talking about the latest plot points.. thats how terrible it was. People are complaining about the AS sequences and I am dismayed by just the character animation in general... and it really rears its head in Episode 10. 3 times worth noting Sosuke when injured and in bed.. they kept panning to the same creepy and unnatural half head cocked view. 2nd.. When Tessa is back in her quarters.. it really gets sloppy and 3rd.. Kaname in the pool.. the animation just goes to crap.. Quote
kajnrig Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 1:54 AM, Stampeed Valkyrie said: FMP.. The animation quality is pretty bad.. its not even worth talking about the latest plot points.. thats how terrible it was. People are complaining about the AS sequences and I am dismayed by just the character animation in general... and it really rears its head in Episode 10. 3 times worth noting Sosuke when injured and in bed.. they kept panning to the same creepy and unnatural half head cocked view. 2nd.. When Tessa is back in her quarters.. it really gets sloppy and 3rd.. Kaname in the pool.. the animation just goes to crap.. Expand The animation took a nosedive this episode, even compared to the previous episodes. It's nothing new to mecha anime - this is largely a talking episode, so they're cutting corners, conserving money and effort for the real big moments in probably the last two episodes - but it was still cringe-inducing at times to actually watch. I just keep hoping that the animation will get spruced up for the eventual Blu-ray release. I did enjoy that they paid attention to the finer details of the weaponry, though. The P90's spent shells ejecting downward from the handle made me whoop during an otherwise unexciting "action" scene. The hardass Marine vet's gratuitous cursing also had me guffawing. Quote
technoblue Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 1:54 AM, Stampeed Valkyrie said: FMP.. The animation quality is pretty bad.. its not even worth talking about the latest plot points.. thats how terrible it was. People are complaining about the AS sequences and I am dismayed by just the character animation in general... and it really rears its head in Episode 10. 3 times worth noting Sosuke when injured and in bed.. they kept panning to the same creepy and unnatural half head cocked view. 2nd.. When Tessa is back in her quarters.. it really gets sloppy and 3rd.. Kaname in the pool.. the animation just goes to crap.. Expand +1 I couldn't get passed the first couple of episodes. There was something about the animation that made the characters look unnaturally flat and two-dimensional. It was unnerving and took me out of the show completely. Quote
SuperHobo Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 2:17 AM, kajnrig said: The animation took a nosedive this episode, even compared to the previous episodes. It's nothing new to mecha anime - this is largely a talking episode, so they're cutting corners, conserving money and effort for the real big moments in probably the last two episodes - but it was still cringe-inducing at times to actually watch. I just keep hoping that the animation will get spruced up for the eventual Blu-ray release. I did enjoy that they paid attention to the finer details of the weaponry, though. The P90's spent shells ejecting downward from the handle made me whoop during an otherwise unexciting "action" scene. The hardass Marine vet's gratuitous cursing also had me guffawing. Expand I definitely hope the blu-ray improves some of the funkier faces, some of the music placement and even some of the material they obviously cut out due to time constraints. Episode 10 was bad in terms of character art, although not the worse I have ever seen ( Gundam IBO S1 and Muv Love Total Eclipse are still worse). Episode 11+ 12 being an hour special and airing all the way to July 18th....hopefully they have enough time to make it look decent. I have waited 13 years to see the laevatein animated, I hope things will be okay. On 6/30/2018 at 2:36 AM, technoblue said: +1 I couldn't get passed the first couple of episodes. There was something about the animation that made the characters look unnaturally flat and two-dimensional. It was unnerving and took me out of the show completely. Expand LOL oddly two-dimensional.....like this was an animated cartoon or something? Whelp, you're missing out on a pretty solid story, but whatever. Quote
kajnrig Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 4:37 AM, SuperHobo said: I definitely hope the blu-ray improves some of the funkier faces, some of the music placement and even some of the material they obviously cut out due to time constraints. Episode 10 was bad in terms of character art, although not the worse I have ever seen ( Gundam IBO S1 and Muv Love Total Eclipse are still worse). Episode 11+ 12 being an hour special and airing all the way to July 18th....hopefully they have enough time to make it look decent. I have waited 13 years to see the laevatein animated, I hope things will be okay. Expand Is this season a 12-episode season? I had thought it was 13... 6 minutes ago, SuperHobo said: LOL oddly two-dimensional.....like this was an animated cartoon or something? Whelp, you're missing out on a pretty solid story, but whatever. Expand I dunno... I'm leaning more towards agreeing with him than not. I've given up on better shows for fewer flaws than this; at this point, the only reason I'm still following it is out of sheer need to see the story through to its conclusion (or as much of one as it'll get in anime form, anyway). Aside from the animation, the storytelling is... bad. Instead of truncating several story arcs into the span of a single season, they should have done a true to form adaptation, blending all those stories into something original. The way I hear it, that's what TSR did by excising and including different elements from different novels, and even introducing entirely new elements such as the expanded backstory of the two sisters. Quote
SuperHobo Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 5:45 AM, kajnrig said: Is this season a 12-episode season? I had thought it was 13... I dunno... I'm leaning more towards agreeing with him than not. I've given up on better shows for fewer flaws than this; at this point, the only reason I'm still following it is out of sheer need to see the story through to its conclusion (or as much of one as it'll get in anime form, anyway). Aside from the animation, the storytelling is... bad. Instead of truncating several story arcs into the span of a single season, they should have done a true to form adaptation, blending all those stories into something original. The way I hear it, that's what TSR did by excising and including different elements from different novels, and even introducing entirely new elements such as the expanded backstory of the two sisters. Expand This is a 12 episode season. 4 episodes dedicated per novel. Storytelling bad? I have to disagree completely. A little fast? Yes. One of the reasons why I enjoy this season a good amount, is because things are actually happening and it doesn't take 10 episodes of meandering in space to get somewhere plot relevant. Blending the story arcs into something original rarely works well at least in anime. Fans of the novels would have complained they weren't faithfully adapted and they're still complaining about all of the changes made in TSR. Although I like some of the changes made in TSR especially Gate's character, but honestly I have seen enough " anime original" material that skewed away from the original source material ( naruto, bleach, violet evergarden, kenshin, the first Fate/Stay Night anime) that the odds would not be in it's favor. Quote
technoblue Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) On 6/30/2018 at 4:37 AM, SuperHobo said: LOL oddly two-dimensional.....like this was an animated cartoon or something? Whelp, you're missing out on a pretty solid story, but whatever. Expand Classy, but that wasn’t my point and I’m not intentionally jerking people around for laughs. Something with the shading and detail seems off to me, making the animation in those early episodes with Sousuke and Kaname look uncanny? It is very strange. Maybe I don't have the art vocabulary to describe what I'm seeing very well, but like I said before it makes the characters look flat. Usually good shading adds depth and detail for both manga and anime, giving two-dimensional images the illusion of three dimensions. I wasn’t seeing it in the streaming version of FMP! IV. Instead, I saw something that looked more like Gonzo's FMP!--inconsistent. Perhaps I was more forgiving with the original series. Now, though, with so much good quality anime to choose from, to see inconsistent styling which reminds me (remember this is all IMO) of a throwback to an anime from the early 2000s does get in the way of the story. I would rather watch something I enjoy than force myself to like something that keeps breaking my disbelief. As for the plot, I found myself getting drawn to petty distractions like the initial cliches: Sousuke’s inability to express himself well, the introduction of another Dr. Evil-type mastermind (Leonard). I guess I'm just not that much of a fan these days. I'm sure you are right and it gets better. Things often do, but this one isn't for me. I’m sorry my opinion has ruffled your feathers, but it is what it is. Edited June 30, 2018 by technoblue Clarified some stuff Quote
kajnrig Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 (edited) On 6/30/2018 at 6:12 AM, SuperHobo said: Storytelling bad? I have to disagree completely. A little fast? Yes. One of the reasons why I enjoy this season a good amount, is because things are actually happening and it doesn't take 10 episodes of meandering in space to get somewhere plot relevant. Expand Plot things are happening, I suppose, insofar as one event is happening after the other, but not a lot of it has any time to settle in and affect the characters and, more importantly, the audience. For instance, (and again the board's infuriating mess of a spoiler tag system has thwarted me, so here's an entire post in spoilers I guess) Reveal hidden contents the Kalinin reveal was terrifically mishandled. Sure, it may hew closely to the novels, but in this adaptation, there's almost zero buildup to it, zero anticipation, and the payoff is just as anticlimactic. He doesn't show up for a full half of the show, and when he does, he gives nothing more than a trite "It's part of the business" reasoning. The way I understand it, there's more to his motivation than pure economy, but the way it's handled here, he may as well be just another bad guy du jour. His actions and justifications run counter to everything we know about him thus far. The whole Namsac arc, too. I really like the potential in Nami's character, but she and hers get introduced and dropped just as you're beginning to get a grasp of who they are. What was the point of that story? What effect is that supposed to have on the narrative as a whole? How does Sousuke's interactions with Nami affect how he feels and acts towards Kaname? What substance is lost if you cut that entire arc and simply time skip from Sousuke losing to this latest episode, when he's recuperating under Drill Sergeant Are Li Army? One thing I loved about this last episode was that it did take the time to slow down, just for that one scene of Tessa trying and failing to get some sleep. Nothing plot-centric happens, yet I appreciate it more because it tells you all you need to know about what HAS happened and what WILL happen. It simultaneously informs and entices; through one character, you learn how the rest of the ship has fared the last several months, and you anticipate what will happen next. 7 hours ago, SuperHobo said: Blending the story arcs into something original rarely works well at least in anime. ...honestly I have seen enough " anime original" material that skewed away from the original source material ( naruto, bleach, violet evergarden, kenshin, the first Fate/Stay Night anime) that the odds would not be in it's favor. Expand You're conflating "adaptation" and "filler," two very different things. I dunno about Violet Evergarden and Fate, but in the cases of Naruto, Bleach, and Kenshin, the anime crew made up new filler stories out of full cloth because they had caught up to the manga. The reason those filler stories (and in the case of Kenshin, an entire filler season) are as poorly-regarded as they are is because they necessarily cannot do anything to progress the story and potentially conflict with whatever the manga author decides the story will be. The infamous Tea Race in the original Naruto anime comes to mind; absolutely nothing about the overarching conflict, Naruto's ongoing training, etc., could be advanced in any significant fashion because no one on the production team knew what Kishimoto(? I forget if he's the author...) would write. Adapting the FMP stories is a different thing entirely, as they're already done and accounted for. The overarching framework has already been set, and there's plenty of wiggle room within that framework, as TSR demonstrated when it removed completely some of the Jindai characters (like the student council president) and elevated others (like the sisters). 7 hours ago, SuperHobo said: Fans of the novels would have complained they weren't faithfully adapted and they're still complaining about all of the changes made in TSR. Although I like some of the changes made in TSR especially Gate's character, Expand You kind of made your own point. So what if fans of the novels complain about faithfulness? Changing the story worked in service of making TSR better while still telling basically the same story. Fans who gripe about an adaptation not following the source material to the letter miss the point of it being an adaptation. You cannot tell the same story the same way in different media. Watchmen the movie was an almost frame-perfect adaptation of the comic, and it was a terrible film for it. V for Vendetta the movie veers wildly from the comic in its themes and significant story details, but it's a great film for it. So far, this season has been a seemingly straight adaptation of the books, but again that results in a stop-and-go structure that really hampers the story. With the books I'm sure each novel has a satisfying beginning, middle, and end. Introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, conclusion, etc. But those three or four stories, back to back, don't work here when you're trying to make them into one. There is no continual build-up of anticipation over the course of the season, just isolated events. Like, let's say Reveal hidden contents this season started in Namsac right off the bat. Jindai are taking a trip there or something, and Nami gets introduced right away. The Amalgam attack happens here instead of Jindai, and Nami saves Sousuke from the wreck of the Arbalest and puts him into hiding as Amalgam forces close in. Yes, that's a departure from the novels, but is it necessarily a bad thing? No. The overarching structure has not been altered, but the audience gets double the time to spend with Nami et al than they would otherwise. Heck, you could spend almost the entire season here and still hit all the beats that need to be hit if you're creative enough about it. Since the Arbalest is in Namsac now instead of Japan, Amalgam captures it. The B plot involves Wraith, Kaname, and... Gavin Hunter (had to look up his name)... conspiring to recapture it and get it to Alaska where it gets refitted into the Laevatein. Tessa and crew make up the C plot, surviving as best they can while establishing a makeshift communications network between the various Mithril remnants. They crisscross with Plots A and B over the course of the season, eventually saving Sousuke in Namsac and retrieving the Laevatein in Alaska, and the final episodes are the rescue of Kaname in Mexico or wherever. It's a far cry from the stories of each of the separate novels, but it works better in the given runtime. On 6/30/2018 at 1:14 PM, technoblue said: Sousuke’s inability to express himself well Expand To be fair, this was a recurring and persistent character trait from the previous seasons. Edited June 30, 2018 by kajnrig Quote
SuperHobo Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 1:14 PM, technoblue said: Classy, but that wasn’t my point and I’m not intentionally jerking people around for laughs. Something with the shading and detail seems off to me, making the animation in those early episodes with Sousuke and Kaname look uncanny? It is very strange. Maybe I don't have the art vocabulary to describe what I'm seeing very well, but like I said before it makes the characters look flat. Usually good shading adds depth and detail for both manga and anime, giving two-dimensional images the illusion of three dimensions. I wasn’t seeing it in the streaming version of FMP! IV. Instead, I saw something that looked more like Gonzo's FMP!--inconsistent. Perhaps I was more forgiving with the original series. Now, though, with so much good quality anime to choose from, to see inconsistent styling which reminds me (remember this is all IMO) of a throwback to an anime from the early 2000s does get in the way of the story. I would rather watch something I enjoy than force myself to like something that keeps breaking my disbelief. As for the plot, I found myself getting drawn to petty distractions like the initial cliches: Sousuke’s inability to express himself well, the introduction of another Dr. Evil-type mastermind (Leonard). I guess I'm just not that much of a fan these days. I'm sure you are right and it gets better. Things often do, but this one isn't for me. I’m sorry my opinion has ruffled your feathers, but it is what it is. Expand Your opinion did not ruffle my feathers, I just found the "unnaturally flat and two-dimensional" statement about a 2D medium to be quite funny. However, with your additional comment about how you would have liked more shading to add depth to the characters, I can now fully understand your opinion. I also apologize if my previous comment came off as rude and snarky. Sousuke's inability to express himself has been a part of his character since the past 3 seasons, but even in the first episode of IV he's making progress because he actually went ahead and held Kaname's hand, which was huge for Sousuke actually acting more like a regular teenager. I also think Gates from TSR was more like Dr. Evil, whereas Leonard is more of the calm, yet calculating type who only shows his most upmost emotions when confronting something like Sousuke's courageous heroism. Nevertheless, if you do not like the art-style, there's no point in forcing yourself to watch something you do not enjoy. On 6/30/2018 at 4:45 PM, kajnrig said: Plot things are happening, I suppose, insofar as one event is happening after the other, but not a lot of it has any time to settle in and affect the characters and, more importantly, the audience. For instance, (and again the board's infuriating mess of a spoiler tag system has thwarted me, so here's an entire post in spoilers I guess) Reveal hidden contents the Kalinin reveal was terrifically mishandled. Sure, it may hew closely to the novels, but in this adaptation, there's almost zero buildup to it, zero anticipation, and the payoff is just as anticlimactic. He doesn't show up for a full half of the show, and when he does, he gives nothing more than a trite "It's part of the business" reasoning. The way I understand it, there's more to his motivation than pure economy, but the way it's handled here, he may as well be just another bad guy du jour. His actions and justifications run counter to everything we know about him thus far. The whole Namsac arc, too. I really like the potential in Nami's character, but she and hers get introduced and dropped just as you're beginning to get a grasp of who they are. What was the point of that story? What effect is that supposed to have on the narrative as a whole? How does Sousuke's interactions with Nami affect how he feels and acts towards Kaname? What substance is lost if you cut that entire arc and simply time skip from Sousuke losing to this latest episode, when he's recuperating under Drill Sergeant Are Li Army? One thing I loved about this last episode was that it did take the time to slow down, just for that one scene of Tessa trying and failing to get some sleep. Nothing plot-centric happens, yet I appreciate it more because it tells you all you need to know about what HAS happened and what WILL happen. It simultaneously informs and entices; through one character, you learn how the rest of the ship has fared the last several months, and you anticipate what will happen next. You're conflating "adaptation" and "filler," two very different things. I dunno about Violet Evergarden and Fate, but in the cases of Naruto, Bleach, and Kenshin, the anime crew made up new filler stories out of full cloth because they had caught up to the manga. The reason those filler stories (and in the case of Kenshin, an entire filler season) are as poorly-regarded as they are is because they necessarily cannot do anything to progress the story and potentially conflict with whatever the manga author decides the story will be. The infamous Tea Race in the original Naruto anime comes to mind; absolutely nothing about the overarching conflict, Naruto's ongoing training, etc., could be advanced in any significant fashion because no one on the production team knew what Kishimoto(? I forget if he's the author...) would write. Adapting the FMP stories is a different thing entirely, as they're already done and accounted for. The overarching framework has already been set, and there's plenty of wiggle room within that framework, as TSR demonstrated when it removed completely some of the Jindai characters (like the student council president) and elevated others (like the sisters). You kind of made your own point. So what if fans of the novels complain about faithfulness? Changing the story worked in service of making TSR better while still telling basically the same story. Fans who gripe about an adaptation not following the source material to the letter miss the point of it being an adaptation. You cannot tell the same story the same way in different media. Watchmen the movie was an almost frame-perfect adaptation of the comic, and it was a terrible film for it. V for Vendetta the movie veers wildly from the comic in its themes and significant story details, but it's a great film for it. So far, this season has been a seemingly straight adaptation of the books, but again that results in a stop-and-go structure that really hampers the story. With the books I'm sure each novel has a satisfying beginning, middle, and end. Introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, conclusion, etc. But those three or four stories, back to back, don't work here when you're trying to make them into one. There is no continual build-up of anticipation over the course of the season, just isolated events. Like, let's say Reveal hidden contents this season started in Namsac right off the bat. Jindai are taking a trip there or something, and Nami gets introduced right away. The Amalgam attack happens here instead of Jindai, and Nami saves Sousuke from the wreck of the Arbalest and puts him into hiding as Amalgam forces close in. Yes, that's a departure from the novels, but is it necessarily a bad thing? No. The overarching structure has not been altered, but the audience gets double the time to spend with Nami et al than they would otherwise. Heck, you could spend almost the entire season here and still hit all the beats that need to be hit if you're creative enough about it. Since the Arbalest is in Namsac now instead of Japan, Amalgam captures it. The B plot involves Wraith, Kaname, and... Gavin Hunter (had to look up his name)... conspiring to recapture it and get it to Alaska where it gets refitted into the Laevatein. Tessa and crew make up the C plot, surviving as best they can while establishing a makeshift communications network between the various Mithril remnants. They crisscross with Plots A and B over the course of the season, eventually saving Sousuke in Namsac and retrieving the Laevatein in Alaska, and the final episodes are the rescue of Kaname in Mexico or wherever. It's a far cry from the stories of each of the separate novels, but it works better in the given runtime. To be fair, this was a recurring and persistent character trait from the previous seasons. Expand Let us both agree not much was particularly done well in episode 10, including a certain reveal towards the end. Although I still find Courtney pretty funny: From my point of view the Namsac arc was a real step out of what viewers/ readers were previously accustom to when it came to FMP. It was like a refreshing restart for Sousuke. Imagine a place where Sousuke was actually good at his job, respected for his job, and had a potential love interest that did not always criticize him for every of his action he took. The Namsac arc is also consistent with TSR and the earlier four episodes of IV where Sousuke keeps thinking about going off on his own away from Mithril and the Namsac arc showcases what that could be like. While Sousuke has some mild success in Namasac, reality comes back to him when all of these good times get taken away from him. As for your previous comment about, "they should have done a true to form adaptation, blending all those stories into something original." This statement does not really make sense and I would recommend being careful in your choice of words, as this statement would usually imply some kind of filler or original material that was not in the previous adaptation. However, after reading your additional comments, it just sounds more like what you actually wanted was a smoother transition between each story arc in IV. At least in my opinion, the transition from episode 4 to 5 felt okay because we see Sousuke making that big step out of school and going into episode 5 as something completely new. I think the more abrupt transition from Japan to Namsac worked for the narrative and I'm sticking by it. The transition between the end of the Namsac arc and this current arc has also been okay as it goes back to Sousuke and Lemon while also giving us the much needed current situation Mithril is in. People generally care that the adaptation is faithful to the source material especially in anime because the source material is what made the story popular in the first place. I will agree with you a 1:1 adaptation does not work, but it should only be minor changes made at best to fit the next medium as necessary. Although, what could be considered minor is totally subjective and is probably different between the both of us. Furthermore. the only reason the original FMP and TSR had to have original content added at the time, was because the novels and manga were simply unfinished. However with IV, the novels and the Sigma manga have been completed so at least in my mind it makes sense to go with a faithful adaptation because the material is already there. Why make more work for yourself? Anyways, this long analysis takes me back to the old days of discussing anime and maybe we should all sit back and enjoy ourselves sometimes instead of pointing out all of the flaws. Quote
kajnrig Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 On 6/30/2018 at 8:32 PM, SuperHobo said: From my point of view the Namsac arc was a real step out of what viewers/ readers were previously accustom to when it came to FMP. It was like a refreshing restart for Sousuke. Imagine a place where Sousuke was actually good at his job, respected for his job, and had a potential love interest that did not always criticize him for every of his action he took. Expand I thought he WAS good at his job and respected for it and had a not just potential but certain love interest that didn't always criticize him for every action he took... 1 hour ago, SuperHobo said: As for your previous comment about, "they should have done a true to form adaptation, blending all those stories into something original." This statement does not really make sense and I would recommend being careful in your choice of words, as this statement would usually imply some kind of filler or original material that was not in the previous adaptation. Expand Agree to disagree; I thought I was pretty clearly talking about something distinct from common anime filler. 1 hour ago, SuperHobo said: However, after reading your additional comments, it just sounds more like what you actually wanted was a smoother transition between each story arc in IV. Expand That certainly would have helped. But more importantly, Namsac feels like... actually, it feels a lot like filler, now that I think about it. Not much of consequence happens here. The... what I'll call the Jindai arc ends with Mithril scattered and Sousuke determined to find Kaname. What I'll call the Laevatein arc starts with Mithril scattered and Sousuke determined to find Kaname. There's a thematic and emotional through-line. They could have cut Namsac entirely and kept the narrative thrust intact, and simply adjusted any lingering plot inconsistencies (like Sousuke meeting Lemon, or Kurama being alive instead of killed by Sousuke in Namsac) as needed. If they wanted to keep Namsac, they could have integrated it better, made it play more into the larger narrative. Otherwise, that "smooth transition" could happen by simply getting rid of it entirely. 1 hour ago, SuperHobo said: Furthermore. the only reason the original FMP and TSR had to have original content added at the time, was because the novels and manga were simply unfinished. Expand According to Wikipedia, FMP author Shoji Gatoh had already written and published "End of Day by Day" (April 20, 2001) by the time the first anime debuted (January 8, 2002). By the time "End of Day by Day" got adapted into TSR, he had finished another two novels and would finish "Burning One Man Force" at its conclusion. So your assertion that the earlier anime productions had to come up with stuff due to the work being unfinished doesn't seem likely to me. 1 hour ago, SuperHobo said: However with IV, the novels and the Sigma manga have been completed so at least in my mind it makes sense to go with a faithful adaptation because the material is already there. Why make more work for yourself? Expand Because the nature of an adaptation demands it? The unnamed sisters in the novels received names, lines, and whole backstories in TSR, and while I can only speculate as to why, I can say with confidence that the end product would have been poorer if those changes from the source material had not been made. The writers/directors took what were essentially throwaway villains and turned them into great foils for Sousuke. 1 hour ago, SuperHobo said: Anyways, this long analysis takes me back to the old days of discussing anime and maybe we should all sit back and enjoy ourselves sometimes instead of pointing out all of the flaws. Expand Part of enjoying an anime for me has always been the discussion of it, warts and all, so I'm totally down for more of this if you are or no more if you're not. /shrug Quote
Hikaru Ichijo SL Posted July 1, 2018 Posted July 1, 2018 I finished tada-kun doesn't fall in love and I was so happy by the end I was in tears when Teresa returned. Quote
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