The MW Automotive Thread 5.0 GT

[SchizophrenicMC]

#bmwmcirclejerk

There is literally nothing bespoke or unique about a German performance luxobarge. None of it is "F1-derived" and it's not even particularly BMW. Without looking into it I'm 90% certain it's just the same 4.4l V8 they've been using for over a decade, with a few modernizations.

I'm going to have a liter of coffee now. Maybe my deep-seated sense of loathing for the middle-class willfully uncreative will improve. Probably not.

Edited March 9, 2016 by SchizophrenicMC

[vlenhoff]

Very nice rides, keep them coming!

[jenius]

#bmwmcirclejerk

There is literally nothing bespoke or unique about a German performance luxobarge. None of it is "F1-derived" and it's not even particularly BMW. Without looking into it I'm 90% certain it's just the same 4.4l V8 they've been using for over a decade, with a few modernizations.

I'm going to have a liter of coffee now. Maybe my deep-seated sense of loathing for the middle-class willfully uncreative will improve. Probably not.

Did you just call the BMW M3 middle class?

[Sildani]

Dunno. I've been in a few BMWs and none of them feel particularly well made, or crafted of luxurious, long-lasting materials. They drive wonderfully well, and their inline sixes are legendary, but overall I'm not too impressed.

[derex3592]

A lot of awesome sleek cars in here!

Thought I'd share my weekend warrior here too. So, I was in the market for a high performance sport coupe and I looked no other than a BMW ///M3 E92. Always loved that luxurious and classy look with a performance in mind of the BMW ///M3. When I learned that the 4th generation ///M3 will come to an end, I immediately placed my order on May 2013 as a '13 year model. Ooooh gawd that 2 months wait seems like an eternity. Took delivery on Aug 2, 2013 and it was by far the happiest day of my life.

What made this car unique is that it is t he first time an ///M3 is equipped with a naturally aspirated V8 high revving motor that revs up to 8,400 RPM. The motor is an F1 inspired motor, a bespoke motor built from scratch. Not a reuse or recycled engine. The sound is so intoxicating and it just makes the car so addicting to drive. Nimble and agile makes this car truly a performance car that can seat 4 passenger which is unheard of. Loved pretty much every aspect of this car and I suspect another years this will be another great BMW classic.

Love it. Always wanted one. Haters gonna hate.

[Agent-GHQ]

#bmwmcirclejerk

There is literally nothing bespoke or unique about a German performance luxobarge. None of it is "F1-derived" and it's not even particularly BMW. Without looking into it I'm 90% certain it's just the same 4.4l V8 they've been using for over a decade, with a few modernizations.

I'm going to have a liter of coffee now. Maybe my deep-seated sense of loathing for the middle-class willfully uncreative will improve. Probably not.

Play the ignorance but don't be a dip $hit hater now...

Did you just call the BMW M3 middle class?

Yeah... according to the dip $hit Hyundai and Honda are far superior for the middle class. Not saying those cars aren't reliable cars either.

Dunno. I've been in a few BMWs and none of them feel particularly well made, or crafted of luxurious, long-lasting materials. They drive wonderfully well, and their inline sixes are legendary, but overall I'm not too impressed.

What car are you trying to compare this one to??!! Like the guys from Top Gear said, if you can afford one, you should immediately stop what your doing and go buy one today.

Love it. Always wanted one. Haters gonna hate.

Try getting a used one. I believe its in the $30k range. And let the haters hate! lol

Edited March 9, 2016 by Agent-GHQ

[derex3592]

Noooo....out of warranty bimmers, especially M's are just going to be an absolute ass-rape on maintenance! Can't do it!

[SchizophrenicMC]

It'd be one thing if they weren't so painfully teutonic, but they're also expensive and unreliable. Quality has suffered since the 90s, and parts cost has skyrocketed. As BMWs have become more attainable, they've become over-engineered junk. It's great while it runs, but when it stops running, the repair bill will bankrupt people who have 320i money. Of course, if you're buying a new M3, you're the kind of new-money showoff who's "into cars" about as deep as your line of credit allows, and that's fair enough, but we're not going to get along because I think you're the type of guy who's too eager to congratulate himself on having an expensive car. Especially if you're the kind of guy who calls his car a ///M3

I'm gonna drive something dumpy that I've spilled my own blood into. It's not as fancy-schmancy, but it's mine. Everything this car does is as a result of my willingness to pick up where the engineers left off decades ago. It doesn't boast of its pedigree (even if it has a rich lineage), it simply offers its capability to a driver who can extract it. And that's all I ask.

But honestly I'm not even really against BMWs, even as much as I hate their tendency to do the German overengineering thing. What I don't like is people with more money than creativity, who buy an M because it's THE BEST CAR and YOU SHOULD GO AND BUY ONE RIGHT NOW. IT'S RACING DESIGNED AND COOL AND STUFF. If you wanted something well-rounded out of the box, that's nice I guess. Glad you could afford it. But what a great way to show off that you have a bunch of cash, and not a lot of creativity. Like, for M3 money, I could buy any daily driver I wanted and still have money left over to build the 240 as a show-quality trackable GT that would be more fun to drive and get more heads turned. That sounds like a LOT more fun to me, than mindlessly taking the advice of 3 rich tossers from the other side of the pond. But to each his own. Glad you've got M3 money. Take your pride in that fact somewhere else please.

[vlenhoff]

Agent-G-HQ, are those all stock photos? Is that your car in the last photo? Can you post pictures if your actual M3, please.

[Agent-GHQ]

Noooo....out of warranty bimmers, especially M's are just going to be an absolute ass-rape on maintenance! Can't do it!

You gotta pay to play as the saying goes bro. Do NOT go to the dealer for service. I suggest a reputable indy shop or connect with fellow bimmers who will help you with services. I'm still under warranty and get that maintenance free but I still do my own oil change every 6 months because BMW recommends once a year.

Or cut down on buying Macross toys I haven't bought a single Macross toys since I took delivery in 2013. I'm now just getting back with the HM-R line. Gawd I don't even want to think about Bandai 1/35 line lol

It'd be one thing if they weren't so painfully teutonic, but they're also expensive and unreliable. Quality has suffered since the 90s, and parts cost has skyrocketed. As BMWs have become more attainable, they've become over-engineered junk. It's great while it runs, but when it stops running, the repair bill will bankrupt people who have 320i money. Of course, if you're buying a new M3, you're the kind of new-money showoff who's "into cars" about as deep as your line of credit allows, and that's fair enough, but we're not going to get along because I think you're the type of guy who's too eager to congratulate himself on having an expensive car. Especially if you're the kind of guy who calls his car a ///M3

I'm gonna drive something dumpy that I've spilled my own blood into. It's not as fancy-schmancy, but it's mine. Everything this car does is as a result of my willingness to pick up where the engineers left off decades ago. It doesn't boast of its pedigree (even if it has a rich lineage), it simply offers its capability to a driver who can extract it. And that's all I ask.

But honestly I'm not even really against BMWs, even as much as I hate their tendency to do the German overengineering thing. What I don't like is people with more money than creativity, who buy an M because it's THE BEST CAR and YOU SHOULD GO AND BUY ONE RIGHT NOW. IT'S RACING DESIGNED AND COOL AND STUFF. If you wanted something well-rounded out of the box, that's nice I guess. Glad you could afford it. But what a great way to show off that you have a bunch of cash, and not a lot of creativity. Like, for M3 money, I could buy any daily driver I wanted and still have money left over to build the 240 as a show-quality trackable GT that would be more fun to drive and get more heads turned. That sounds like a LOT more fun to me, than mindlessly taking the advice of 3 rich tossers from the other side of the pond. But to each his own. Glad you've got M3 money. Take your pride in that fact somewhere else please.

Look at you... a chalk full of win here. While you do got two points right. Parts quality has suffered since the 90s and there will always be a premium for having a bespoke engine produce in SMALLER numbers.

But as far as the E9x generation ///M, hells no, not one bit. Its the last true ///M car that had the expensive research and development behind it not a marketing coup like the ///M4. Now point to me a car that revs 8300 RPM with an exotic sound with a 414 HP out the box from the factory!?!?

This ///M3 is bad ass, not some lego made from off the shelf generic parts! It's a bespoke state of the art mechanical marvel that I suspect will go down in the history book as one of BMW's best car ever built. In fact, this S65B40 V8 engine has won motor of the year for four consecutive year (2009-2012).

Now get your head out of your ass because all your words clearly shows ignorance in every BMW. The S65B40 is NOT turbocharged. It's Naturally Aspirated motor. Your words are just flatulence with no foundations whatsoever. Its not 1970s anymore and all those cars you like belongs to a junkyard museum.

The E92 ///M3 is ABSOLUTELY bespoke and is largely adapted from the BMW P86 V8 that powered the BMW Sauber F1 Team. The S65B40 has double VANOS, individual throttle butterflies, 8300 RPM high reviving and low weight composite that you will not find in any other 4.0 liter V8.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Agent-GHQ

[Agent-GHQ]

Agent-G-HQ, are those all stock photos? Is that your car in the last photo? Can you post pictures if your actual M3, please.

Yup the last pic is my wknd warrior. here's more:

[derex3592]

Love the ride Agent! Any pix of the 4C??? And yes....if I gave up Macross toys my car budget would definitely be much better!

[dizman]

Noooo....out of warranty bimmers, especially M's are just going to be an absolute ass-rape on maintenance! Can't do it!

They aren't that bad if you are confident enough to work on em yourself, BMW's aren't Rolls Royce (especially 70's era) levels of impossible to fix .

[SchizophrenicMC]

Just wanna throw it out there: the M3 V8 is developed from the M5 V10, which was loosely inspired by the P38 V10, but shares no actual component designs, just a few broad design elements. Production realities and what have you.

But that's as much of a response as I'm willing to justify to mister bimmer circlejerk there.

In much more exciting news, I got new tires put on the Subaru, just in time to have to wear the mold release coating off in the rain. Heavy understeer transitioning to wild oversteer? What are you, a 300ZX? Unfortunately the bunch of parts I have on order for the S13 still haven't shown up. I can't even get any email response out of FR Sport- I knew I shouldn't have tried ordering from them again. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me three times, shame on the diminishing parts supply for CA18DETs in America.

[Roy Focker]

Cars people. You're talking about cars. Let's keep things civil. It isn't like you're debating something important like fictional superiority of one cartoon robot over another cartoon robot.

[vlenhoff]

Thanks for the pics Agent, that's a very nice ride. A friend let me drive his V8 M3 coupe the other day, and itwas very smooth with great sound!

Now, lets take easy, we all love cars, and we meet here to share.

I don't care if my car lacks luxury, or if it has a plastic interior. I don't care about it not being bespoked, or being the best in class. I do know some are intro that stuff, but I could care less myself.

I just know it has an engine and that it handles like it should. I modified what I felt was necessary, and it does exactly what's it is supposed to do. Keeping me save and in the right spot on the road is all care about.

A car makes no one great, make no mistake. Now let's crank our engines are let's leave the BS out of these forums my dinosaur burning brothers.

[spanner]

Congrats on the new purchase Agent! bloody nice car mate!

[spanner]

a beautiful Alfa 156 tin top strutting its stuff! and sounding rather nice in the process!

[Agent-GHQ]

Cars people. You're talking about cars. Let's keep things civil. It isn't like you're debating something important like fictional superiority of one cartoon robot over another cartoon robot.

As you can see... certain cars just brings out that hate and jealousy in others. I was anticipating this as even IRL I get a bunch of haters trying to race me. I just laugh and give them a smile.

Thanks for the pics Agent, that's a very nice ride. A friend let me drive his V8 M3 coupe the other day, and itwas very smooth with great sound!

Now, lets take easy, we all love cars, and we meet here to share.

I don't care if my car lacks luxury, or if it has a plastic interior. I don't care about it not being bespoked, or being the best in class. I do know some are intro that stuff, but I could care less myself.

I just know it has an engine and that it handles like it should. I modified what I felt was necessary, and it does exactly what's it is supposed to do. Keeping me save and in the right spot on the road is all care about.

A car makes no one great, make no mistake. Now let's crank our engines are let's leave the BS out of these forums my dinosaur burning brothers.

I was researching a few high performance cars between $50k-$125k. The ///M3 completely caught my attention mainly due to its first V8 naturally aspirated motor and that it was the last of the ///M3 linage. I wanted something that was unique and that I can appreciate for the long haul. Its a special car considering it has evolved nearly 30 yrs. Yes, that sound of the engine is indeed intoxicating and very addicting to drive. Again, this is just my wknd ride. I drive a Prelude SH as a daily so its night and day in comparison.

Congrats on the new purchase Agent! bloody nice car mate!

Thanks spanner!

[areaseven]

[Sildani]

I think it's AgentONE who has the Alfa 4C.

By the way, I've got my eye on a 99 Jeep Cherokee with 204K miles on it. One owner, who really took care of it. Anything I should look out for when I look it over?

[SchizophrenicMC]

I think it's AgentONE who has the Alfa 4C.

By the way, I've got my eye on a 99 Jeep Cherokee with 204K miles on it. One owner, who really took care of it. Anything I should look out for when I look it over?

Jeeps from that period, especially the 4.0l models, have electronic gremlins that can cause random stalls, regardless of how well-cared-for the vehicle is. Also, 1999-2001 4.0l engines used head casting revision 0331, which is prone to randomly cracking and becoming useless. Unfortunately, the issue isn't related to mileage, so the 0331 castings haven't all cycled out yet. Some people have been lucky. Definitely ask about that. You can also find the casting number next to the valve cover mating surface:

Also watch out for the 42RE transmission. XJs are really light, so they shouldn't have too many issues, but they can cause trouble in the heavier ZJ and WJ Grand Cherokees and I wouldn't rule out the possibility. Make note of the transfer case, if the vehicle is a 4x4. Look for the presence of a 4 Full Time position- this designates the NP242J transfer case which was optional on some Limited models. Most XJs had NP231J however, which does not have a full time AWD position.

Leaks are ubiquitous and will likely emanate from everything that contains fluid. If you find something that isn't leaking, ask about it. On a Jeep, if something isn't leaking, it's best to assume you've run it completely dry and are about to have a really bad day. There's really only a couple of design flaws that cause this- the real cause is just the number of miles people were willing to put on these suckers every year without regard to the maintenance costs. They were cheap to buy, but there's only so much you can do to reduce the time it takes to do a rear main seal, you know?

Anyway, I'm probably getting out of the Jeep game by next year myself. There's a couple things I still want to check off the bucket list with my 5.9 Limited, but after that I'm kinda done fiddling with Daimler-Chrysler, and I just don't have the budget for a new Jeep. I'd like to say my Jeeps have been good to me, but then, I've owned 5 Grand Cherokees and that probably speaks for itself. They're probably fine as second or third vehicles, but I've always made the mistake of trying to daily drive them. And at this point I'd rather spend my money and time working on a project sports car than a project fast SUV. (And project wheelers never really worked out too much in my area of Texas anyway)

[Duke Togo]

As you can see... certain cars just brings out that hate and jealousy in others. I was anticipating this as even IRL I get a bunch of haters trying to race me. I just laugh and give them a smile.

Envy, not jealousy.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Duke Togo

[SchizophrenicMC]

Envy, not jealousy.

Envy would still be mislabeling it. Though I guess there isn't a single word for when your eyes roll so hard the angular momentum of Earth is measurably affected.

[Sildani]

Thanks for all the advice, Schizo. I wound up buying it. It was in good mechanical shape, needs a bit of cosmetic repair (headliner fabric rests in my head) and a damn good interior cleaning.

I'll grab a pic or two later on. I looked and looked, but couldn't see that 0331 stamp. Perhaps it's smaller than I thought, or maybe it doesn't have one. It is a 4X4, but does not have the full-time 4WD position. It was pretty fully equipped, being a Cherokee Classic.

If you have the time and inclination, Schizo, a quick treatise on what to watch out for l, and a Cherokee's typical quirks, would be welcome. For instance, I kinda have to hit the brakes pretty hard to get them to bite, and the feel isn't what you call progressive. Still, stopping happens with a good amount of authority. Is that a quirk of Cherokees?

Stuff to do: scrub interior, replace headliner, install Weathertech matting, put on seat covers, and eventually replace some black paint. Not bothering with making it more off-road capable since that's not its mission. It'll be a utility vehicle, on-road, with bad weather capabilities.

Thanks for the advice!

[Agent-GHQ]

This era is by far my favorite generation of Datsun. What a classic! But I'm not not a fan of mods/tunes. And where's that time machine at.... I'll gladly pay $3,600 for a new back in 1972.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Thanks for all the advice, Schizo. I wound up buying it. It was in good mechanical shape, needs a bit of cosmetic repair (headliner fabric rests in my head) and a damn good interior cleaning.

I'll grab a pic or two later on. I looked and looked, but couldn't see that 0331 stamp. Perhaps it's smaller than I thought, or maybe it doesn't have one. It is a 4X4, but does not have the full-time 4WD position. It was pretty fully equipped, being a Cherokee Classic.

If you have the time and inclination, Schizo, a quick treatise on what to watch out for l, and a Cherokee's typical quirks, would be welcome. For instance, I kinda have to hit the brakes pretty hard to get them to bite, and the feel isn't what you call progressive. Still, stopping happens with a good amount of authority. Is that a quirk of Cherokees?

Stuff to do: scrub interior, replace headliner, install Weathertech matting, put on seat covers, and eventually replace some black paint. Not bothering with making it more off-road capable since that's not its mission. It'll be a utility vehicle, on-road, with bad weather capabilities.

Thanks for the advice!

This era of Jeep is known for having weak brakes. The TJ and XJ especially, since they have rear drum brakes. It is possible to switch to rear disc brakes from a ZJ Grand Cherokee, which does improve pedal feel and overall performance, especially in the XJ, which is the lightest of the bunch. (Hardly over 3200lbs) It is notable that the ZJ uses the same tiny front brakes as the XJ though so no need to mess with that. For an immediate improvement, I would look into more aggressive pads and rotors for the front brakes, and make sure the rears are properly adjusted. You'll never get fantastic pedal feel- these Jeeps just really need overboosted brakes to begin with- but you can get a lot better stopping power out of them without spending a lot of money.

Watch out for the electronics. As previously stated, there are a few electrical gremlins that can mess with the engine's stable operation, and you can get funny issues with lights sometimes. I don't think I've ever seen a late 90s Jeep where the power windows didn't work, but door locks are common failure points. Headliners are a 100% failure rate item for this era of Jeep, and I actually have 2 Grand Cherokees at the moment that need work done to their headliners. Keep an eye on your cooling system. 4.0s aren't very sensitive to cooling faults, but it's a very long block that can be difficult to work on around where the cooling stuff happens. Don't get too concerned if the engine makes a lot of tapping or even knocking noises at startup; 4.0s have a nasty tendency of developing benign wrist pin slop that sounds like rod knock but has no effect on sustained operation. They also sometimes get a bit of lifter noise. If something is really wrong, you'll know. That stamp in the head, by the way, is pretty small, but all 4.0 heads have a stamping there that denotes the casting revision. It may not say 0331- if it doesn't, you win. My advice: get a flashlight and a rag. The valve cover is sealed to a flat surface, so leaks are common and cause a lot of grease buildup around where the casting number is.

I can't think of anything else right now, but basically, treat an old Jeep like the Millennium Falcon and you'll be fine. They're quirky, some areas won't inspire confidence, but keep it patched up and know where to hit it and you'll be fine for the most part.

In other news, I just got back from a weekend trip to Colorado Springs. So. Many. Subarus.

[areaseven]

East bound and down

Loaded up and truckin'

A'we gonna do what they say can't be done

We've got a long way to go

And a short time to get there

I'm east bound just watchin' ol' Bandit run...

[areaseven]

Fernando Alonso survived a terrifying crash at the Australian Grand Prix this past weekend. Goes to show how safety has advanced over the years. And how lucky Alonso was to walk out of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6pZ9TyQfqk

[Shadow]

Saw that. Agreed on how far safety has come over the years, particularly since Ayrton Senna's death.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Amazing to see Alonso walk away from that. There was absolutely no car left to walk out of.

In other news,

Miata RF

and

2017 Impreza

[ErikElvis]

Impreza is nice but nothing shocking. That Miata rf though..... Too cool. I would love one as a DD but so impractical.

[areaseven]

Saw this at the local dealership last month. One of the few gems that won't hit Stateside.

[derex3592]

Am I the only one who really likes that new Miata cabriolet?????

[Shadow]

A Miata would be an awesome "second" car to me. Still hoping for a Mazdaspeed version sometime.