The MW Automotive Thread 5.0 GT

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:29 AM, sqidd said:

LOL! I only just watched Robocop over the weekend! 

Funny that no one has made a scale model of the 6000 SUX.. or at least as far as I know.

[sqidd]

1 minute ago, spanner said:

LOL! I only just watched Robocop over the weekend! 

Funny that no one has made a scale model of the 6000 SUX.. or at least as far as I know.

I just watched it a week or so again. man that movie holds up!

 

Here ya go:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/robocop-1987-6000-sux-sedan-boddicker-1934427531

 

 

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On 11/26/2019 at 12:28 PM, sqidd said:

I just watched it a week or so again. man that movie holds up!

 

Here ya go:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/robocop-1987-6000-sux-sedan-boddicker-1934427531

 

 

hehe! thats cool! but sadly not 1:18 scale..

[sqidd]

3 hours ago, spanner said:

hehe! thats cool! but sadly not 1:18 scale..

Just stand closer.

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On 11/27/2019 at 10:04 PM, sqidd said:

Just stand closer.

LOL!! 

[TangledThorns]

I'm determined my next car will be a AWD electric vehicle and will likely buy it in 2023 when my Nissan Juke is ten years old. So far the main contenders is the Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Cybertruck. I'm expecting there will be more choice by 2023 with better prices though. Time to save up those pennies!

On a second note. I think we'll see a transportation revolution next decade, just like we saw with communications this decade. Instead of smartphones, cord cutting and faster Internet, next decade will be more electric vehicles that will drive themselves.

[Mazinger]

2 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

On a second note. I think we'll see a transportation revolution next decade, just like we saw with communications this decade. Instead of smartphones, cord cutting and faster Internet, next decade will be more electric vehicles that will drive themselves.

I agree. I have 8 years on my current gas car and think I'll wait another 5 years or so before getting another vehicle. I like to keep my vehicles until it just stops making any economic sense and typically go for dependable, value models. Given that I can wait a bit I'm mostly interested in the following two features for whatever comes next:

A) Not be fully gasoline powered auto - I might go for a hybrid, if they are still being made and there haven't been any serious improvements in the range of full electrics, else I'd just go that route.  I would still like the ability to drive from LA to SF in a day without having to wait hours for a recharge of sorts.  I would also hate to get stuck in some remote place because I had overestimated how much charge I had left.

B) Auto-driving features. When I surfed early mornings in previous years and then had to commute freeways for hours at a time to get to work, it was a pain. I'd always think, man, when are auto-driving cars gonna become a reality. Being able to sit back and let the software do the driving for 90% or so of the ride would have been ideal.

[Mog]

8 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

On a second note. I think we'll see a transportation revolution next decade, just like we saw with communications this decade. Instead of smartphones, cord cutting and faster Internet, next decade will be more electric vehicles that will drive themselves.

Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I just don't see that happening. 

Part of the fun of driving the car yourself (rather than it driving itself) is controlling it and seeing how far you can push its and your abilities.

I'm in the minivan stage of life .  But even then, I still wanted to see how well I could push the minivan up a mountain and downhill through some curves.

For example, I get why the van has a lane departure warning.  But that blipping warning pisses me off, especially when I'm trying to take a better line out of a corner/curve.

Again, I get adding all these new bells and whistles on the cars.  But I don't think I'll ever give up control of driving the vehicle myself.

[jenius]

The technocrats would tell you that in 5 years you won't need to own a car. You'll tap an app and a driverless car will appear at your driveway. You'll probably pay a few hundred a month for the service and that will be the end of car ownership except for 'enthusiasts' who will gradually be killed off by rising taxes on gas and vehicle registration. 

[Mog]

I'll probably just tap my "Fill up my gas tank, and GET OFF MY LAWN!!" app, or tell my Alexasiri Smart Water Faucet^TM to do all those things.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Mog

[Seto Kaiba]

48 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

I'm determined my next car will be a AWD electric vehicle and will likely buy it in 2023 when my Nissan Juke is ten years old. So far the main contenders is the Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Cybertruck. I'm expecting there will be more choice by 2023 with better prices though. Time to save up those pennies!

Well, yes and no... as an engineer working forward model development, I can say (without breaking any NDAs) that you'll absolutely see more choice in electrification by 2023.

That said, most of it is going to be in BSGs¹, MHEVs², and PHEVs³.  You'll see a few more vehicle lines offering full BEVs⁴, but not many because the electrical grid here in the US just isn't ready for en masse adoption of 500V or 800V battery-electric cars and they're not as profitable due to the decrease in tax incentives to buy them in the last year or so.  That will likely change with the next administration, though.

If a hybrid truck or SUV would be on your radar, you may find yourself spoiled for choice by 2023.  You probably heard Sergio Marchionne announcing before he passed that Jeep's entire lineup was going hybrid, and he bloody meant it.  (That is literally my department.)

 

48 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

On a second note. I think we'll see a transportation revolution next decade, just like we saw with communications this decade. Instead of smartphones, cord cutting and faster Internet, next decade will be more electric vehicles that will drive themselves.

Eh... you're 50% correct.

We will absolutely see an increase in vehicle electrification in the coming years.  Why?  Because there is no f*cking way any automaker is going to meet the government-mandated fuel economy and emissions requirements for the next decade without going at least partially electric on most of their vehicle lines.  ESPECIALLY for trucks and SUVs, which are not exactly the most fuel efficient of vehicles even under perfect world conditions.

Autonomy is a stickier wicket.  We'll likely see progress made towards universal adoption of SAE Level 1 and 2 autonomy features like lane stay and adaptive cruise control, but the Elongated Muskrat is living in a fantasy world if he thinks we're going to get workable Level 4 or 5 autonomy (true self-driving in all possible road conditions) anytime soon.  There are just too many factors to be accounted for, the sheer level of sensor fusion and processing power necessary to make it workable just isn't practical for a consumer level car right now.  SAE Level 4 or 5 autonomy might be workable in somewhere between twenty and fifty years on a consumer level, but definitely not in ten.  Tesla's autopilot is a dangerously underequipped attempt at autonomy, which is why Teslas keep running into stationary objects (and why the government keeps riding the Muskrat's *ss about how unsafe it all is).  Radar and ultrasonics just aren't enough to do it safely, you need high-precision cameras and LIDAR too.

Autonomous taxi fleets will be a thing, but under rigidly controlled conditions in low speed environments like downtown areas in major cities where any speed collision caused by autonomous AI defect or meatbag failure will be easily survivable.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Mazinger said:

A) Not be fully gasoline powered auto - I might go for a hybrid, if they are still being made and there haven't been any serious improvements in the range of full electrics, else I'd just go that route.  I would still like the ability to drive from LA to SF in a day without having to wait hours for a recharge of sorts.  I would also hate to get stuck in some remote place because I had overestimated how much charge I had left.

Yeah, you'll likely end up with a hybrid... non-hybrid options are going to become something of an endangered species in the coming decade due to the aforementioned tightening CAFE and CARB requirements, and several European countries outright banning the sale of gasoline-only cars in coming decades.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Mog said:

I'm in the minivan stage of life .  But even then, I still wanted to see how well I could push the minivan up a mountain and downhill through some curves.

You'd probably have fun with a BEV minivan or D-SUV.  Maximum torque available from 0rpm.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, jenius said:

The technocrats would tell you that in 5 years you won't need to own a car. You'll tap an app and a driverless car will appear at your driveway. You'll probably pay a few hundred a month for the service and that will be the end of car ownership except for 'enthusiasts' who will gradually be killed off by rising taxes on gas and vehicle registration. 

That's beyond even the most optimistic assessments I've seen... but we may one day reach that point in the next fifty years or so.  Right now, autonomous vehicle technology just isn't mature enough for that, no matter what the Elongated Muskrat might want to tell his customers.

 

1. Belt-mounted Starter Generator, for the more aggressive implementations of Auto-start/stop, the lowest-end MHEVs.
2. Low-voltage hybrids that contain one or more emotors to assist the gas engine, and utilize regenerative charging to refill their batteries.
3. High-voltage hybrids that contain one or more emotors that can either assist the gas engine or run independently of it, which use both regenerative charging and power from the grid to replenish the battery.
4. Battery Electric Vehicles, pure electric powertrains with no gas engine component.

[sqidd]

1 hour ago, TangledThorns said:

I'm determined my next car will be a AWD electric vehicle and will likely buy it in 2023 when my Nissan Juke is ten years old. So far the main contenders is the Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Cybertruck. I'm expecting there will be more choice by 2023 with better prices though. Time to save up those pennies!

On a second note. I think we'll see a transportation revolution next decade, just like we saw with communications this decade. Instead of smartphones, cord cutting and faster Internet, next decade will be more electric vehicles that will drive themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Mazinger said:

I agree. I have 8 years on my current gas car and think I'll wait another 5 years or so before getting another vehicle. I like to keep my vehicles until it just stops making any economic sense and typically go for dependable, value models. Given that I can wait a bit I'm mostly interested in the following two features for whatever comes next:

A) Not be fully gasoline powered auto - I might go for a hybrid, if they are still being made and there haven't been any serious improvements in the range of full electrics, else I'd just go that route.  I would still like the ability to drive from LA to SF in a day without having to wait hours for a recharge of sorts.  I would also hate to get stuck in some remote place because I had overestimated how much charge I had left.

B) Auto-driving features. When I surfed early mornings in previous years and then had to commute freeways for hours at a time to get to work, it was a pain. I'd always think, man, when are auto-driving cars gonna become a reality. Being able to sit back and let the software do the driving for 90% or so of the ride would have been ideal.

 

1 hour ago, jenius said:

The technocrats would tell you that in 5 years you won't need to own a car. You'll tap an app and a driverless car will appear at your driveway. You'll probably pay a few hundred a month for the service and that will be the end of car ownership except for 'enthusiasts' who will gradually be killed off by rising taxes on gas and vehicle registration. 

I have a LOT of friends/family in the auto industry. Behind closed doors they're saying that this revolution is not going to happen.

-There is a huge issue with electric cars. The main one is that if you started making all cars electric tomorrow the Earth would run out of lithium in 13yrs. There is nothing as far as battery technology on the horizon that can take it's place. And that doesn't address the environmental impact of all that lithium processing then disposal. Which is awful.  The second issue with electric cars is that even if there was sufficient battery technology there is no infrastructure to support charging all of those cars. And if there was, you would be burning fossil fuel to do it. 

-Driver-less cars? Hhahahahahahahahahaaha!!! Never going to happen. Even if they got the tech to work (they won't), there is a huge liability issue no one talks about. How is ultimately liable when the car kills someone? The manufacturer? Um, nope. They will never put them selves on that hook. The insurance companies? Um, nope. The "drivers/owners"? Um, nope. No one will ever allow themselves to be liable therefore it will never happen.

The above is what most people in the auto industry already know. This electric/driver-less thing is a publicity stunt.

This has been brought to you buy a guy who would add a driver-less electric car to the stable in a second. I want one. I know it's not going to happen though.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, sqidd said:

There is nothing as far as battery technology on the horizon that can take it's place.

Well, there is... but graphene batteries are still in the process of being scaled up to a usable level for something as big as a PHEV or BEV.

Ten years or so down the road, we could get there.  Graphene's got a major advantage over lithium since graphene batteries aren't temperature sensitive, eliminating a major roadblock to PHEV and BEV adoption.

 

4 minutes ago, sqidd said:

The second issue with electric cars is that even if there was sufficient battery technology there is no infrastructure to support charging all of those cars.

Yes and no... the US electrical grid is pretty damn dilapidated, but the communications infrastructure necessary to support grid-friendly "smart" charging has actually been in place for a while now.  It's the same communications tech many of the more efficient models of water heater, furnace, AC, etc. employ.  (IEEE 802.15.4 or ZigBee, and SEP2.)  I actually used to be in charge of the SAE interoperability and security panels for this stuff.

The actual physical charging stations are stupid easy to install if your house has a 240V branch accessible and they're pretty damn cheap too.  The main problem is inadequate capacity in the grid itself, not a lack of infrastructure or difficulty in installing the requisite infrastructure.

 

4 minutes ago, sqidd said:

And if there was, you would be burning fossil fuel to do it. 

Depends where you are.

Sensible countries that are adopting high levels of renewables and energy sequestration systems can easily support fleets of electric cars without burning fossil fuels.  The ones who've doubled down on supporting renewables with nuclear DEFINITELY can.  The only reason America can't is because the coal lobby has part of congress by the balls.

[TangledThorns]

Seto knows his stuff! Though I have no interest in hybrid vehicles. The main reason I want all electric is so I don't have to visit a gas station, such a hassle to fill up a tank during the Winter where I live. 

Been reading about graphene for years, hope it pays off!

The self driving feature seems to be more for the new generation, same folk that can't drive a manual transmission and want to Uber everywhere.

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by TangledThorns

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Seto knows his stuff! Though I have no interest in hybrid vehicles. The main reason I want all electric is so I don't have to visit a gas station, such a hassle to fill up a tank during the Winter where I live. 

At-home charging for BEVs is a bit of a sticky wicket right now, since most homes aren't wired to deliver more than 36 amps on a 240 volt branch (@50-60Hz).  That's what all of the major charger standards are engineered around: SAE J1772 (US), IEC 62196 (Europe), and GB/T 20234.2 (China).

Consequently, charging an electric vehicle is still a rather time-intensive operation.  Using your garden variety American home electrical outlet at a nominal 120V 15A, you're looking at around 14 hours to recharge a 40kWh Li+ battery pack like those found on many PHEVs and light-duty BEVs.  Something like a Tesla needs anywhere from 80 to 100 hours of charging from that same outlet to fully recharge a depleted pack (because their packs are 85kWh or 100kWh).  Using a dedicated 240V charger, it's about 2 hours to recharge that 40kWh pack on a PHEV or light-duty BEV and between 9 and 11 hours to recharge the 85-100kWh pack of a BEV like the Tesla Model S.  That's about the limit of what you can achieve with home charging right now.

The twinned holy grails of BEV design are a battery pack with performance that won't deteriorate noticeably in cold weather (graphene!) and achieving a network of high-voltage DC current charging stations that can achieve near gas station-like "refueling" speed... so you can plug your car in, even in deepest midwinter, and be fully recharged in minutes instead of hours.

SAE J1772 DC Level 1 fast charging is up to 450V at up to 80A and its gruntier Level 2 version can go up to 200A.  DC Level 1 could charge something like that 40kWh pack in about 30 minutes, or the Tesla's 85-100kWh packs in a bit over 90 minutes.  DC Level 2 could do that 40kWh pack in about 10 minutes and the 100kWh pack in about 30 minutes.  That's a charger you're not going to want in your house though, because they're big and noisy and they require dedicated branch circuits that aren't normally built into a house.  The ones I used when we were working on Phase III of the RAM 1500 PHEV (https://www.allpar.com/model/ram/electric-PHEV.html) for the USDoE were around the size of a vending machine and weren't exactly quiet with all the cooling fans and the big chunky contactors opening and closing.  Newer models are slimmer and quieter, but they're still around a foot or two thick and six to seven feet tall with an operating noise like a restaurant-grade refrigerator.

 

21 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Been reading about graphene for years, hope it pays off!

It's amazing stuff, and the idea of combining battery production with carbon capture and sequestration technologies really rubs me the right way.  Turning pollution into batteries to store clean green energy?  I am 200% ready for that sh*t.

 

21 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

The self driving feature seems to be more for the new generation, same folk that can't drive a manual transmission and want to Uber everywhere.

Yeah, kinda... though it's got more commercial applications than residential ones.

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[TangledThorns]

I have a decent size two car garage and measured it's length, its at about 210 inches which is too short for most trucks including the Tesla Cybertruck at its current length of 231.7 inches. I could park in my driveway but having a parked car in a garage in during Winter or rainy days is really nice. Plus I have to think about the fast charging location in or outside my garage too. 

So at this point the Ford Mustang Mach-E may be my next vehicle. I'm just hoping I can get that $7,500 EV tax credit when I buy one in 2023. Stuff to obsessively think about till then, lol.

Edited December 7, 2019 by TangledThorns

[vlenhoff]

Manual for life!

My .02

[Seto Kaiba]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29655638/fiat-chrysler-psa-peugeot-citroen-merger-cars/

Well, as of today, it looks like the merger is officially on between Fiat-Chrysler and Peugeot.

We got the email statements from Mike Manley and John Elkann this morning, and it looks like Peugeot's Carlos Tavares is set to head up the combined company when the dust settles.

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[Stampeed Valkyrie]

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29655638/fiat-chrysler-psa-peugeot-citroen-merger-cars/

Well, as of today, it looks like the merger is officially on between Fiat-Chrysler and Peugeot.

We got the email statements from Mike Manley and John Elkann this morning, and it looks like Peugeot's Carlos Tavares is set to head up the combined company when the dust settles.

 

I was wondering if there was a way to make Fiat worse..    looks like there is a way!

 

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:25 PM, vlenhoff said:

Manual for life!

My .02

I hear ya,   most of the cars I have been dabbling in lately are 30+ years old and just about all of them are manual.  

Only recent exception was an 1982 280ZX.    Probably would have held it longer if it was manual.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

I was wondering if there was a way to make Fiat worse..    looks like there is a way!

Ouch... lol.  Hey, we were working on making it better, by moving its engineering activities the f*ck out of Italy.

[sqidd]

Not an auto, but there is no motorcycle thread so I figured I would post here.

Went into the dealer yesterday to get the straight scoop from a friend that I used to race with that is working there and to kick some tires. I'm thinking of getting back into doing track days.......and maybe some racing again. I haven't been on a bike in 12yrs. They have come a LONG way. The Superbikes are making more power and have an incredible level of electronics that rivals the Factory race bikes back from when I was racing. The technological advancement is astounding. You only use the clutch to get rolling from a stop now. All gear changes are with the foot lever only. The electronics takes care of everything else. That would take some getting used to. The traction/slide control is out of this world. You can set how much tire slip you want as well as the slip angle, whack the throttle open and just let it do it's thing. Back when I was racing all of those electronics were in your right wrist. And if you got it wrong you were on a one way trip to the moon. Another thing that would take a while to get used to. And the power. Holy smokes. They have street bikes in there with just an exhaust and tune making more power than the full works factory race bikes of my time had. And they have a WARRANTY!

I want to get back on the track bad. I have never been happier than when I was racing. At 48 I'm getting up there. But not officially over the hill yet. It's a tough call. I want to ride. But, I've met my quota of 180mph crashes. I'm not sure I want to have another one of those. I've got the next few months to decide I suppose. Going to have to do some soul searching on this one.

2020 Ducati Panigale V4

[SEBAS]

Fantastic driver and very nice heel and toe tecniqhe!

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[Shadow]

If you've been driving an Auto most of your time with cars, what's the fastest way to get comfortable and efficient with driving a manual?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Shadow said:

If you've been driving an Auto most of your time with cars, what's the fastest way to get comfortable and efficient with driving a manual?

A good long road trip in mixed driving conditions... like a freeway through a rural area.

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[reddsun1]

Old skool on 'roids…

Me likey.  But I wanna see people start putting some G-Tech meters on-the-dash of some of these restomods though--see how much of a quantitative difference the modern addons make. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by reddsun1

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