The MW Automotive Thread 5.0 GT

[spanner]

5 hours ago, sqidd said:

He also has a:

Lamborgini 10 cyl (I don't know the name)

Audi R8

Ferrari 430

Ferrari 458

Ferrari 488

Air cooled Porsche 911 of some sort

Aston Vantage

Aston Vanquish

Aston DB11

Mustang GT350R

2015 Mustang GT with 975rwhp

Some sort of Jag

C7 Corvette Z06

If he didn't actually make all that money himself by working his ass off. I would not like him.

[lechuck]

On 8/25/2019 at 9:57 AM, ErikElvis said:

Now I have the thought of buying a STI. But do I really want to daily drive a manual. I am getting older and more easily annoyed....

I you ask me, don't do it. You will regret it in stop and go traffic. Barely slipping the clutch , then disengaging, slipping the clutch, disengaging.... over and over.

I made the switch a couple of years ago to a ZF automatic and I don't want to ever go back to manual again.

[sqidd]

27 minutes ago, lechuck said:

I you ask me, don't do it. You will regret it in stop and go traffic. Barely slipping the clutch , then disengaging, slipping the clutch, disengaging.... over and over.

I made the switch a couple of years ago to a ZF automatic and I don't want to ever go back to manual again.

Agreed. At 48yrs old I'm over manual transmissions. And auto's have gotten soooooo good. The 6 speed auto in my F150 and the wife's 10 speed auto in her Mustang are fantastic. The ten speed is amazing.

[ErikElvis]

Well for a dedicated garage queen I’ll still go for a manual. But yeah dd’ing a manual is for the birds. Did that on 2 of my cars.  Just put in an order for a 2020 outback onyx xt(2.4 turbo). I test drove one of the base models and was very impressed with the ride and lack of road noise over my fit.  Now I’ll just have to wait 3 months to get it. 

[spanner]

 

[spanner]

Sad to hear the death of a F2 driver at Spa today.

F2 driver Anthoine Hubert has been killed in a horrendous crash at the Belgian Grand Prix. The 22-year-old Frenchman died as a result of his injuries following a sickening 150mph collision at the famous Eau Rogue turn at Spa-Francorchamps.

[seti88]

 

[spacemanoeuvres]

On 8/25/2019 at 3:57 AM, ErikElvis said:

Now I have the thought of buying a STI. But do I really want to daily drive a manual. I am getting older and more easily annoyed....

Oh gosh I’ve been driving MT for almost 30 years. I just picked up a VW GTI MT and I wish I purchased a DSG instead. 

MT is engaging and challenging to drive smoothly. But I’m not in the mood to be challenged/engaged on a daily basis anymore lol. Oh well, just another 10 years until I pickup another daily driver (lawdy) 

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:17 PM, lechuck said:

I you ask me, don't do it. You will regret it in stop and go traffic. Barely slipping the clutch , then disengaging, slipping the clutch, disengaging.... over and over.

I made the switch a couple of years ago to a ZF automatic and I don't want to ever go back to manual again.

I guess I have the unpopular opinion.

I have 2 MT cars.. a 69 Charger and a 2007 Civic Si.

Both are totally different beasts driving MT but I wouldn't want it any other way.

my 2 4Runners are AT,  though if I could locate a solid 3rd Gen T4R in MT,  I would be all over it.

 

[vlenhoff]

1 minute ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

I guess I have the unpopular opinion.

I have 2 MT cars.. a 69 Charger and a 2007 Civic Si.

Both are totally different beasts driving MT but I wouldn't want it any other way.

my 2 4Runners are AT,  though if I could locate a solid 3rd Gen T4R in MT,  I would be all over it.

 

Same here, I have never bought an automatic car. Manual for life here.

[spanner]

OMG! what a beauty! 

[Nightbat]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:26 PM, vlenhoff said:

Same here, I have never bought an automatic car. Manual for life here.

One has to wonder how hard it has to be, to push down a pedal and stir in that box of cogwheels every once in a while

(apart from other life-challenging actions, like parking, checking mirrors and having to pay attention to the road instead of the phone/infotainment center)

If people like to be driven so badly, why not sell the car and take the bus?

[Seto Kaiba]

On 9/11/2019 at 4:26 PM, vlenhoff said:

Same here, I have never bought an automatic car. Manual for life here.

34 minutes ago, Nightbat said:

One has to wonder how hard it has to be, to push down a pedal and stir in that box of cogwheels every once in a while

Some people - a pretty significant percentage of 'em, anyways - want their car to "just work".  They don't want to have to think about the nuts and bolts of what makes their car tick, they just want to enjoy the drive, listen to their music, or focus on the satnav system to get where they're going.  Also, from my experience, proper shift timing is something that too many drivers simply don't have the patience to learn.  "If you can't find it, grind it" is a very real, very disappointing phenomenon.

Mind you, from my professional role in powertrain development and my interactions with ZF and Aisin, I'd question if there's even a future for the manual transmission now that the focus for improving performance, fuel efficiency, and emissions control has increasingly turned to electrification.  You can still have a manual on a car equipped with a BSG, ISG, or a vehicle equipped with eAWD, but once you start getting into the realm of hybrid transmissions with mild- and plug-in hybrids it starts getting increasingly complicated and the best that's often possible is the faux-manual behavior of sport mode thanks to multiple torque sources in parallel and powersplit system designs, some of which are effectively outside of direct human control.  In a few years, BSGs, ISGs, and powersplit MHEVs are going to be the new normal in order to meet the tightening CAFE and CARB requirements for emissions controls, never mind the more stringent emissions controls in Europe and China.  With key European markets already moving to outlaw the sales of non-BEV cars within the next 30 years, odds are the push for electrification is going to make high voltage parallel and powersplit PHEVs the norm before long even in the US.  There's just too much potential for the meatbag to destroy the transmission if there're emotors spinning parts of it rather than just the engine.

 

34 minutes ago, Nightbat said:

If people like to be driven so badly, why not sell the car and take the bus?

Well, in America, that's because public transit is a poor people thing outside of city centers... and in true American fashion even lower-middle-class folks tend to see themselves more as temporarily inconvenienced millionaires.

That, and the fact that convenience always sells.  People might grumble about the idea of autonomous cars, but people take to the idea of SAE Level 4 and 5 autonomy VERY quickly... just look at how many idiots nap behind the wheel of their Teslas, which are technically only Level 3 capable (and only just, at that, given how often they autonomously run into sh*t).

Just wait 'til we hit Level 5 capability, and we'll start seeing autonomous vehicles delivering people who've shuffled off their mortal coil en route without the car even noticing.  It's not delivery, it's dead people!

[sqidd]

2 hours ago, Nightbat said:

 

If people like to be driven so badly, why not sell the car and take the bus?

If there was such a thing as a self driving car I would buy one in a second. I'd love to be able to tell my car to go somewhere and while in transit I could take a nap, get some work done, read a book, etc. That said, there would be a super powerful death machine parked next to it in the garage for when I felt like driving myself.

[Nightbat]

1 hour ago, sqidd said:

 That said, there would be a super powerful death machine parked next to it in the garage for when I felt like driving myself.

That's my daily driver 

[sqidd]

26 minutes ago, Nightbat said:

That's my daily driver 

I'm getting old. The days of 160mph commutes on a Busa are behind me.

And I work from home so I don't commute.

[vlenhoff]

My comment was in no way meant to offend anyone. As long as i have functioning knees, I will drive manuals. I don't need a butler telling me what gear to be in. i enjoy engaging my gears. i enjoy the simplicity of my ship. I have driven automatics, and they are very relaxed and enjoyable. I don't blame anyone for liking them, and still enjoy driving. We are all car lovers.

And i say butler, because it is a very luxurious thing, or it used to be, to have an intelligent car than can change its own gears. Now a days, it is becoming more expensive to buy a new manual car, at least in America.

PLUS, 10 years driving my car and the clutch plate still working like the first day. Very simple simple system. OMG i love rowing my gears, I can't explain it.

Edited September 26, 2019 by vlenhoff

[vlenhoff]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Some people - a pretty significant percentage of 'em, anyways - want their car to "just work".  They don't want to have to think about the nuts and bolts of what makes their car tick, they just want to enjoy the drive, listen to their music, or focus on the satnav system to get where they're going.  Also, from my experience, proper shift timing is something that too many drivers simply don't have the patience to learn.  "If you can't find it, grind it" is a very real, very disappointing phenomenon.

There is a learning curve to anything. "if you can't find it, grind it"? is very real? Who are you driving with?

The manual experience becomes natural, once your familiarization/coordination is complete. It is not "extra" work, and it is very pleasant. If i ever get tired of manuals or become sick, I will definitely welcome an automatic. It is not fair to deflate the manual driving experience, just because you don't like it. It sounds like you are saying a manual car is more "distracting", and you would be very wrong.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, vlenhoff said:

There is a learning curve to anything. "if you can't find it, grind it"? is very real? Who are you driving with?

Well, for most things anyway... an automatic's chief virtue is that there really isn't a learning curve to using it.  You put the shifter in D and you go.

I've seen some pretty appalling things on test tracks over the years, including an awful lot of people who claim to have grown up with manual transmissions doing a pretty rubbish job with them.  The big test drive events are kind of like torture.

 

1 hour ago, vlenhoff said:

The manual experience becomes natural, once your familiarization/coordination is complete. It is not "extra" work, and it is very pleasant.

Oh, it absolutely is extra work.  You just don't feel like it is once you're used to it to the point that it feels natural.  The fact that it IS extra work is literally the historical reason semi-automatic and automatic transmissions were invented in the first place.  

 

1 hour ago, vlenhoff said:

It is not fair to deflate the manual driving experience, just because you don't like it. It sounds like you are saying a manual car is more "distracting", and you would be very wrong.

It's not my intention to "deflate" the manual driving experience... you enjoy what you enjoy, and I have zero interest or stake in trying to change your mind.  I was simply noting, in response to derisive remarks about people who prefer automatics, that the reason the automatic transmission was invented and became the industry standard is because it's a convenience feature.  A lot of people just don't care to put in that small extra effort if they don't absolutely have to, especially when it comes coupled with the possibiliy of an error incurring a significant non-warranty repair bill.  They don't want to have to think about how their car works, they just want it to work, and the automatic transmission helps fill that need.  Convenience sells.  

That said, I do feel the age of the manual transmission is nearing its end as the push for better fuel-efficiency and lower emissions forces increasing amounts of powertrain computerization and automation.  Hybrids, and then BEVs, are going to become the norm in the not too distant future and manual doesn't really fit into the picture of powertrain electrification.

[spanner]

 

[spanner]

The Ferrari 333 is just awesome!

[spanner]

 

[spanner]

 

[reddsun1]

Hehe, anyone who's seen a Formula 1 or other racecar from the 60's - 70's--back when aluminum monocoques were beginning to become the standard--without its bodywork will appreciate the "similarity." 

Actually, that's not really a fair comparison.  This guy looks like he's actually got more protection... 

[spanner]

Is that a "bathtub" chassis!? 

[vlenhoff]

On 9/26/2019 at 8:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, for most things anyway... an automatic's chief virtue is that there really isn't a learning curve to using it.  You put the shifter in D and you go.

I've seen some pretty appalling things on test tracks over the years, including an awful lot of people who claim to have grown up with manual transmissions doing a pretty rubbish job with them.  The big test drive events are kind of like torture.

What appalling things have you seen on test tracks?

On 9/26/2019 at 8:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, it absolutely is extra work.  You just don't feel like it is once you're used to it to the point that it feels natural.  The fact that it IS extra work is literally the historical reason semi-automatic and automatic transmissions were invented in the first place. 

Have you ever tried one? Have you ever seen someone beautifully drive one?

On 9/26/2019 at 8:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's not my intention to "deflate" the manual driving experience... you enjoy what you enjoy, and I have zero interest or stake in trying to change your mind.  I was simply noting, in response to derisive remarks about people who prefer automatics, that the reason the automatic transmission was invented and became the industry standard is because it's a convenience feature.  A lot of people just don't care to put in that small extra effort if they don't absolutely have to, especially when it comes coupled with the possibiliy of an error incurring a significant non-warranty repair bill.  They don't want to have to think about how their car works, they just want it to work, and the automatic transmission helps fill that need.  Convenience sells.  

That said, I do feel the age of the manual transmission is nearing its end as the push for better fuel-efficiency and lower emissions forces increasing amounts of powertrain computerization and automation.  Hybrids, and then BEVs, are going to become the norm in the not too distant future and manual doesn't really fit into the picture of powertrain electrification.

You are not deflating anything on my end. All things must come to an end, and i am fine with that. Not because i am uninterested in a subject, it means i am going to reason why that subject is inferior, or outdated. If anything, if you really help develop these systems, you would be more than interested in what makes a manual such a "car guy" thing. Knowing your customers and how to please them could expand your business in the future. If someone makes an auto behave like a manual does, then that would something appealing to the manual driving crowd. There is a huge market there that could be captured, and profit to be made. 

A normal person likes to "click" and take a picture and that's it for them. A photographer knows all the settings to make that picture become art. Not everyone is satisfied with clicking something into "D" and just going. Until we get all electric in the future, people will still adore their Manual cars.

 

No offence to anyone driving automatics. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by vlenhoff

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, vlenhoff said:

What appalling things have you seen on test tracks?

Oh golly, where to begin?

One of my favorite "bad test track" stories is one that happened to me personally.  I took a BEV prototype out to the test track to discharge the battery with some aggressive driving, as that was a faster way to discharge its battery pack than asking the mechanics in my lab space to dismount the pack and hook it up to a charge controller.  Didn't realize that the emotor controller software was new and didn't have cals merged yet, so when I put my foot down expecting its usual kinda-dozy start off the line I discovered the hard way that it wasn't going to derate the emotor based on velocity... so I got maximum instantaneous torque at 0rpm and proceeded to leave a sixty-foot strip of rubber on the track and almost put it into one of the guard rails on the outside edge of the first hairpin turn.  Ruined two tires, and incurred the wrath of the facilities maintenance for leaving rubber all over their pristine track.

I've experienced several "camo malfunctions", where bolt-on camouflage caused doors or even the hood to fly open during a test by interfering with latches.  I had a total failure of the powertrain on the above-described BEV caused by one of the vehicle's other users subjecting it to a fording test without telling anyone in advance, so water infiltrated the pack because the seals had been removed to connect it up to the charge control system and promptly froze until driving heated it up enough to melt and short the pack.

I've seen an 8-speed automatic accidentally destroyed on a test track run by a test engineer who failed to take the car out of low/tow gear mode and proceeded to try to get the truck it was installed on up to 70mph+.  There were bits of gear teeth in the transmission fluid when it was brought back for maintenance.

I've seen similar damage inflicted on manual transmissions several times when people who swore blind they knew how to drive stick failed shifts and went to an unintended gear at unacceptably high RPMs, including one accidental attempt to shift into reverse at over 55mph and 6,000rpm.

I've seen defective supplier hardware and software brick vehicles while stationary or in mid-drive, with the worst recurring culprit actually being a badly-programmed data logger.

I've seen prototype control boards fry under load spikes, and on one memorable case I saw an EVSE explode due to what was later determined to be a manufacturing defect in the EVSE itself.

I've seen a couple crashes caused by software defects, driver inattentiveness, weather conditions, and suicidal wildlife... the latter being a significant recurring problem for the test track I most frequently use.  I've seen a number of wild turkeys meet their ends in the grills of test vehicles, and I've seen the aftermath of two deer strikes as well.  I've also seen a couple of vehicles suffer tree related damages from attempting to evade wildlife on the track.

 

 

10 hours ago, vlenhoff said:

Have you ever tried one? Have you ever seen someone beautifully drive one?

Yes to both.  One of the senior powertrain calibrators who I met when I moved from experimental vehicles to forward-model development was an absolute poet with a manual trans, and could probably have found steady work as a stunt driver.  

I could take or leave a manual... I'm very much with the convenience crowd, though my preference would be for a BEV that didn't need a transmission at all.  Something about the higher powertrain efficiency levels just really gets me worked up.  You'll never get better than about 48-52% energy efficiency from a combustion engine.  You can get upwards of 90% efficiency from an electric. 

 

10 hours ago, vlenhoff said:

If anything, if you really help develop these systems, you would be more than interested in what makes a manual such a "car guy" thing.

Oh, I imagine our engineers have a pretty good understanding of why manuals are such a "car guy" thing... but they're "car guys" themselves, for the most part.

It's the majority who are non-car guys who do kind of dictate what features are standard though, for better or worse.  People really like convenience, which is why so much of what's being done to load down CAN buses and lowspeed vehicle ethernet networks is convenience feature content like infotainment, comfort features, and lower level autonomy features.

 

10 hours ago, vlenhoff said:

Knowing your customers and how to please them could expand your business in the future. If someone makes an auto behave like a manual does, then that would something appealing to the manual driving crowd. There is a huge market there that could be captured, and profit to be made. 

That's kinda what Sport mode is trying to do... but it's a pretty terrible imitation for the most part.

 

 

[sqidd]

I'm a retired national level motorcycle roadracer with a lot of championships, a mountain of podiums and even though I have been out of it for 12yrs I think I still have one 2 wheeled lap record to my credit. I have played on track with cars a couple times a year in the past 12yrs. But it's just not lighting my fire like the bikes did. And I can't touch a car that can run lap times like the bikes did. That said, I can drive the crap out of a manual, and I get the appeal. I've done track days with my buddies Spec Miata and despite having a raging 120hp it's pretty fun to drive. And you have better be good at manipulating manual trans. You're shifting a LOT. And only loss in momentum with the Mita you pay for in a big way. ALL THAT said, I have been spending time on track recently in my buddies GT3RS with the PDK (I think that's what it's called) and I got a chance to doe a few sessions in a 2020 GT500 with the DCT. If you want to put down the fastest laps possible (as a racer that's my drive) the DCT/PDK stuff is absolutely the way to go. So what do you want to do? Go as fast as you can? Or have a more visceral experience with a manual? It's not a right or wrong thing, it's a choice thing.

As far as street cars go, I'm over the manual trans. The only time you will see me driving a manual on the street is behind the wheel of a very powerful muscle car. That's fun because things like smoking the tires off on a 3rd gear shift is a ton of fun. I've got a car in for some R&D right now that makes a touch over 1000 tom the tires. It's a manual. It's exciting/scary to drive. It will step out at 120mph if you're not careful. I wouldn't like the car as much with a manual. I'm rarely driving cars like that though. And if I am, it's to do some Hooning.

As far as the market goes there is this. The 2020 GT500 was announced with the DCT. A huge portion of the community cried their eyes out that there wasn't a manual option (were to ones crying on the net every going to get one, probably not). Despite the Internets outward impression that everyone didn't like the DCT. The car sold out in about six seconds. Most of them going for $25-50K over retail. In this case, the market has spoken loud and clear.

I say drive what makes you happy. There is no right or wrong. Judging someone's trans preference would be judging them for liking one flavor ice cream over another. Silly.

[vlenhoff]

Thanks for sharing your experiences  @Seto Kaiba

At the end of the day people who love auto trannies can say "oh Manuals are too much work" "Oh automatics are faster and more efficient now" "Oh traffic is terrible" Or those who think they will crash because they were "distracted" by shifting, oh no! The reality is the manual experience is like no other. The way you can drive fast or slow and synch everything in an orchestra of sound, power and motion. The way the exhaust sounds under load or on the overrun. The way can do heal toe to keep the revs up without losing any momentum, while shifting perfectly. The engine notes are unique and personal, not a copy of a gear change every time. The computer will always guess what you want, but in manuals, you know what you want. It is the certainty, and the expectation, which enhances confidence and accuracy. It is a total and unique experience, but now a days since the "standard" is Automatics. In a world of lazy people or those who cant be bothered to have a proper, authentic and involved driving experience. Cars have become soulless appliances, and we are too blame for it.

The one thing an automatic will never be able to replicate is reliability and absolute control. Less complex, lighter, and solid Manual systems. How many people here have had their automatic transmissions replaced? Or worked on? Or recalled? Have you ever lost control of your car? Nearly ten years of driving my car, and still have the same clutch, and the same smile on my face as I did the first day I drove it. In fact, i have only owned manual cars all my life and none of them had to be repaired, or even had the clutch replaced, ever. I am not here to bash automatic drivers, but please don't knock it, just because you don't understand the experience of having intimate control over your ship. With that said, a good driver will do fine with any transmission. The involving and intense feeling though, will not be there.

What does bother me about Automatics are the idiots out there texting and talking on the phone. They have more "free time" so they distract themselves while driving. I imagine they are so bored they need to do something to kill time, instead of paying attention to the road.

This is my very humble opinion, and again, i mean no offence to anyone preferring to drive Automatics.

BTW, i am not sure if i posted this video before, but this is how my manual car sounds. There is no way an automatic will give you this sound experience. 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by vlenhoff

[spanner]

On 10/4/2019 at 11:05 PM, vlenhoff said:

Thanks for sharing your experiences  @Seto Kaiba

At the end of the day people who love auto trannies can say "oh Manuals are too much work" "Oh automatics are faster and more efficient now" "Oh traffic is terrible" Or those who think they will crash because they were "distracted" by shifting, oh no! The reality is the manual experience is like no other. The way you can drive fast or slow and synch everything in an orchestra of sound, power and motion. The way the exhaust sounds under load or on the overrun. The way can do heal toe to keep the revs up without losing any momentum, while shifting perfectly. The engine notes are unique and personal, not a copy of a gear change every time. The computer will always guess what you want, but in manuals, you know what you want. It is the certainty, and the expectation, which enhances confidence and accuracy. It is a total and unique experience, but now a days since the "standard" is Automatics. In a world of lazy people or those who cant be bothered to have a proper, authentic and involved driving experience. Cars have become soulless appliances, and we are too blame for it.

The one thing an automatic will never be able to replicate is reliability and absolute control. Less complex, lighter, and solid Manual systems. How many people here have had their automatic transmissions replaced? Or worked on? Or recalled? Have you ever lost control of your car? Nearly ten years of driving my car, and still have the same clutch, and the same smile on my face as I did the first day I drove it. In fact, i have only owned manual cars all my life and none of them had to be repaired, or even had the clutch replaced, ever. I am not here to bash automatic drivers, but please don't knock it, just because you don't understand the experience of having intimate control over your ship. With that said, a good driver will do fine with any transmission. The involving and intense feeling though, will not be there.

What does bother me about Automatics are the idiots out there texting and talking on the phone. They have more "free time" so they distract themselves while driving. I imagine they are so bored they need to do something to kill time, instead of paying attention to the road.

This is my very humble opinion, and again, i mean no offence to anyone preferring to drive Automatics.

BTW, i am not sure if i posted this video before, but this is how my manual car sounds. There is no way an automatic will give you this sound experience. 

 

I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on this!

[seti88]

Well IMO, auto is best if you are stuck in traffic jams, the majority of your driving time.
Otherwise, nothing beats a manual in terms of responsiveness and torque delivery.

[sqidd]

One car with an auto. One car with a manual. Problem solved.

[ErikElvis]

If it’s not a 2 door sports car I’ll take and auto any day. 

[spanner]

My current daily is an auto and to be honest I hate it. Well I dont hate the car, its actually fairly nice to drive but the fact its auto makes it sluggish as its an older 4speed.. Before we purchased this car I drove a couple others in manual but we wanted a wagon so our options were then limited and the only wagon manual they were asking ridiculous money for.. maybe one the auto burns up I'll do a manual conversion. 

One of my previous daily's was a manual a 2003 Mazda 6 and I loved it! And I really didn't mind stop go traffic. Had that for about 3 years and only sold it as I wanted a Holden V8 again. Regrets doing that as I should have kept it.

My current manual SS isn't a daily but I did cop a little flak for not going with an auto.. Oh the auto is a faster car, oh they are easier to drive and paddle shifters are cool and it auto blips etc etc All good points yes but they lack that engagement you get with a manual. And I have learnt how to heal n toe and properly blip on down shifts and its such a satisfying feeling getting it right. Also impresses others when I take them for a spin in it! 

My misses owns a 2012 Holden (Chevy) Cruze and its an ok car. Feels solid and finished well but its an auto. But the gearbox is indecisive and  constantly hunts around for the right gear and its not a nice experience. Definitely not a good combination with the 1.4 Turbo engine. The manual version of the very same car is something else! Like a completely different car! I considered getting one before the wagon and took a couple for a test drive. So much nicer and more fun experience. Yeah it was a tad notchy and the bite point was a tad high on the pedal but nothing a little getting use to wouldn't fix.

When she drove it her first words were.. I should have got the manual eh! But her concerns were the daily stop go traffic commute to work.

Not bashing autos as a whole and yes there are some amazing auto (dct) only cars out there which are insane but for me the driving experience just isn't the same. I don't like being denied the feeling of full control. 

[sqidd]

34 minutes ago, spanner said:

 but the fact its auto makes it sluggish as its an older 4speed..

You need to drive one of the newer transmissions. The 6 speed auto in my F-150 is pretty nice. That was until my wife just picked up a 19' Mustang GT with the 10 speed auto. Hooooleeeee crap. That trans is awesome. You can drive around like an old lady when you want to. Or if you want to blast off in a straight line you put it in drag race mode and it shifts crazy fast. They even built in some wheel spin on the first three shifts to keep wheel speed up (drag race trick). Then there is road course mode and you use the p[addles. It's not quite as good as a DCT, but it's pretty damn good for an auto. Certainly better than anything you can do on public roads.

 

The gearing is so short it only drops 750rpm between shifts. It's like a 80cc dirt bike. But you can still cruise down the freeway at 80mph turning 2100rpm.