Whats Lying on your Workbench MK IV

[Jefuemon]

[electric indigo]

Time for another Rei.

[valhary]

as supposed arcadia would do the minmay guard I change my custom now the know is a joke I not sure to step back Fortunately apply the stickers can be removed easily

[Noyhauser]

Well, I've started on my next round of projects. First I finished this Tamiya 1/72 mosquito:

Kinda rushed it, but its okay.

I'm also finishing up some A6M2 Zeros sitting on a carrier deck. might have some photos of it next time. This will be my next big project, 5 1/72 CF-18s:

But I think you're more interested in this:

Its that bandai reissue of the Destroid Spartan. I've modified the hand so that it will properly hold something... you'll see what later. This wasn't too easy: the hand is molded in one piece and the inside is hollow... so it was a bit of trial and error to get the fingers in this position using some plastistruct/evergreen pieces. The other hand will have some modifications so that it looks like its being used to bear some weight. I'll clean them up to remove the seamlines too, I'm just trying to get their look right before I go to the next step.

Thanks for looking.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Noyhauser

[derex3592]

I've got that kit sitting on my shelf..been dreading starting it...

[Noyhauser]

Its a slight bit of a bear, but I'm going to modify it a bit. Actually my biggest concern is getting the legs into a realistic stance. I'm worried it will take a lot of cutting and modding to get it right.

[MechTech]

It will probably be a pain, but doable! I did the Spartan in 1/350th (hopefully getting casted soon) and it was tough getting it all to sit right. It's just a weird (but cool) engineered mecha. Do it right, and it looks cool, align it wrong and it looks lame. You gonna open up the missiles? - MT

[Noyhauser]

MechTech, on 02 Jun 2013 - 14:39, said:

It will probably be a pain, but doable! I did the Spartan in 1/350th (hopefully getting casted soon) and it was tough getting it all to sit right. It's just a weird (but cool) engineered mecha. Do it right, and it looks cool, align it wrong and it looks lame. You gonna open up the missiles? - MT

Probably not... The truth is that I want to make it a close combat scene in a built up area with the spartan ready to strike with a combat mace (that was my big lame surprise). I think adding missiles would just make the kit too "busy" and not too realistic... would you really fire missiles if you're close enough to strike with a mace? I might also add a CF battroid, but the display might get too big if I did that.

I know exactly what you mean about the feet. I really want to avoid the goofy looking gundam legs (you know, the awkward the straight legged first generation gundam models)... so I think its partly going to require the hip to open up. Another option would be to have it kneeling behind a building... which might open up greater space for the valk too. That would require a lot more engineering, but it would also probably look cooler and hide more of the modifications.

We'll see once I get to the legs... as I said earlier, I'm excited to build this kit.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Noyhauser

[wm cheng]

Hey Noyhauser, I'd like to know how you feel about the Academy vs. the Hasegawa F-18s? The Academy new tool F-16 blows the old Hasegawas out of the water - I was very pleasantly surprised.

[Noyhauser]

Hey Noyhauser, I'd like to know how you feel about the Academy vs. the Hasegawa F-18s? The Academy new tool F-16 blows the old Hasegawas out of the water - I was very pleasantly surprised.

Oh, its significantly better... as you say it blows it out of the water. I like the old school hasegawa because they are easy to build and their shape is pretty accurate. However the Academy cockpit is far far more realistic, it has more details across the aircraft, and just more options. Of the two the academy's F/A-18 is better than their F-16.... and with the F-16 you can go with the better Revell version. A common problem between the two F/A-18s is that they do not have true intake trunking... its particularly bad on the hasegawa kit, but the academy kit isn't much better.

The Fujimi kit Hornet is really odd. Some have said its its inaccurate in shape... I don't think I've seen a definitive answer on that however. Its also a very complex and a challenging build (think Hasegawa F-14 fiddlyness X2) . However if you're really into detailing and want an accurate model OOB, I'd go with it. It has intake trunking, its easier to cut the flaps off to drop them, you can display the radar, has photo etched mirrors and slime lights. it also has a boarding ladder.

Hope that helps! I'd love to see a F/A-18 out of you.

[wm cheng]

Thanks Noyhauser,

I loved the Academy F-16 kit! Here's my build a few years ago...

I was going to get the Academy F-18C kit when the new Hasegawa F-18F kit came out, so I opted for that instead - always a sucker for the skull squadron.

Back to anime for the moment, just a small project to hopefully finish by weeks end (before I start a new job!)

Nope, its not stealth... its just the glossy undercoat in preparation for the Alclad Polished Aluminum.

[wm cheng]

I never did build one of those P-51 Mustangs or those beautiful F-104 Starfighters - but now I know the love of bare-metal finished planes!

Here's she is with four different Alcad colours ranging from Polished Aluminum for the fuselage, to Stainless Steel, Dark Aluminum and Magnesium. There isn't as much difference as I would have thought (easily blended with any weathering). There's a little post-shading I did with Magnesium over the Polished Aluminum. I'll spray the clear red over the nose sections to give that a metallic sheen. I'll mask a few panels to give it a darker sheen on the fuselage and I'm almost ready for decals. I do like how this particular kit has broken out all the colours as separate pieces, now I have to spray all the leading edges yellow. I even liked how ridiculously deep the panel lines are (typical of Bandai) - it helps because I had to spray a thick glossy black undercoat which would of obscured all Hasegawa panel lines! Nice little kit so far...

[505thAirborne]

Zeros, Falcons & Hornets Oh My!! Looking good guys!!

[Noyhauser]

I've actually moved away from using black gloss... I use a thinned british racing green enamel now because it gives it a different tint and allows for more detail to show through. You can see an example or two in the first page of the basic modeller tips thread.

[MechTech]

That Zero is coming along nicely! I too like metal finishes on planes. They'e a great opportunity to make plastic look "real." I had a battloid with metal finish on it and a friend went to pick it up and almost threw it! I asked what he was doing and he said, "it looked heavy!" - MT

[PetarB]

Very nice WMCheng. I have plans to get this kit (or a couple of them). I do have the OLD Bandai kit floating around with the raised panel lines, which I had planned to scrape of and rescribe, but I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore!

[Kylwell]

You can also use a variety of sheens to change the look of the metal, from gloss to flat. Flat makes the metal look older, oxidized looking. Semi-gloss for worn bits. The only paints that have to a black (or dark color) are the polished ones, Polished Aluminum, Chrome, Stainless Steel and Airframe Aluminum.

[SebastianP]

I finally got around to getting myself a VF-25, and I figured I'd start with the most difficult one:

The kit has pretty much only been assembled at this point, and transformed a couple of times so I could figure out how it worked, so it will be disassembled for final cleanup, panel lining and decalling later. I'm not sure at this point whether to go with stickers or water slide decals, I'm leaning towards using the stickers to start with and saving the water slide decals for if I ever get around to actually painting this beast.

While the kit feels somewhat sloppy with the super parts on (it takes a bit of fiddling to get everything to where it wants to stay put), it's really not that bad once you get everything in place and put it down. Just don't go zooming it around the room...

[Shaorin]

i'm of the mind that there isn't much point in doing a "Museum" job on a modern BANDAI PLAMODEL

unless you are planning to treat it like a traditional display piece glue&paint model kit, especially if it transforms and/or is articulated like all get out.

if one has to go this direction, i'd recommend buying at least two copies; one to do the Museum finish on, for static admiration in some glass case,

and at least one more to selectively detail paint (cockpit, panel lines, etc) to make it look like at least a well-finished toy that you can actually have fun with.

if budget allows, get at least three copies, so that you will have spare parts...

[Chronocidal]

I finally got around to getting myself a VF-25, and I figured I'd start with the most difficult one:

The kit has pretty much only been assembled at this point, and transformed a couple of times so I could figure out how it worked, so it will be disassembled for final cleanup, panel lining and decalling later. I'm not sure at this point whether to go with stickers or water slide decals, I'm leaning towards using the stickers to start with and saving the water slide decals for if I ever get around to actually painting this beast.

While the kit feels somewhat sloppy with the super parts on (it takes a bit of fiddling to get everything to where it wants to stay put), it's really not that bad once you get everything in place and put it down. Just don't go zooming it around the room...

Honestly, I'd kind of say to ditch both the decals and stickers entirely, and paint everything. They're terrible. They're printed like newspaper, horribly transparent, not the correct shapes, and don't conform well at all using standard decal techniques. Not a huge deal if you're just applying them for fun, and intend to strip them down later though.

When you do need to use markings like text and logos, get some pure white decal film, and cut out a duplicate to put under the decals so they appear the right colors. Either that, or paint the areas white first so you don't see the plain plastic showing through the markings.

If you're just decorating it to be done with it without much painting, I'd go with the stickers though, just because they'll probably work better if you aren't planning on painting.

[wm cheng]

ARGH! DISASTER STRUCK... Well, I gotta chalk this one up to a learning experience... so close to the end and I f@$k it up. I don't really get it still though. It looks like my varsol thinned oil paint wash reacted with the Alclad metalizer paint somehow. I'm sure I've done an oil wash over Alclad directly before in the past. However I've never built a silver plane before with so much Alclad showing. But I have done an oil wash over Alclad steel for my VF-25 legs and never had this reaction. Firstly, when I go to wipe off the excess oil wash, it didn't come off, it was etched into the silver, then I used a little more varsol (mineral spirits) on my paper towel and it took the oil wash off, but it also took what was underneath off too, right through the Alclad and even though the lacquer black gloss undercoat too! Some we see bare grey plastic showing and some we see the black undercoat showing through.

You can see the nose portion where I sprayed Tamiya clear red over the Alclad was perfectly fine. Curiously, the damage seemed to only affect Polished Aluminum and Stainless Steel (unfortunately the majority of what I chose for the fuselage) - the Dark Aluminum and Magnesium seems unaffected. You can see panels I had masked off in the Dark Aluminum and Magnesium to be fine as well as the missiles and wing tank.

Another note though, the missile tips and wing tank tips are friction fitted over top of the body, the fit is really tight. What happens is when you put it on, it all looks great, however if you do an oil wash to pick out the details, it often reveals that there are hairline cracks that form on the missile tips (red) or tank caps (yellow) due to the great pressure which isn't seen until the oil wash gets pulled into it. This occurred with my VF-25S armored reaction missile tips as well. That combined with the lacquers I spray reacts with the Bandai plastics and makes them weaker I find. It looks great when you just use the bare plastics since you can't see the hairline cracks, its only if you paint them or do an oil wash.

So what I've learned is that not all Alclad metalizers are the same. It seems that Dark Aluminum, Magnesium, Steel and Jet Exhaust are fine to do an artist oil wash over top of directly. However, Polished Aluminum and Stainless Steel (and I would guess Chrome) seem to be much more delicate and would require a clear coat to protect it before any oil wash. It's funny, I was going to clear coat the whole thing this morning when I got the yellow leading edge bits on, but was worried that with the layering of the gloss black undercoat and metalizer plus this new gloss coat (glossy coats are really thick) that I might lose some of the panel details (ironic as Bandai often has such deep trenches!) so I thought I'd do the oil wash directly and seal it in with the gloss coat before decals. Now I know, always seal in the Alclad with a clear coat first (at least the shinier colours) before an oil wash.

I don't think its worth my time stripping it all back to the bare plastic to start again. I'll try to buy another kit to start over - I gotta get the 02 one anyways to do build it with the gears extended and folded up.

[Kylwell]

Oil washes are less problematic with Alclad I've found. Even then, if your Alclad doesn't have a strong clean surface to adhere to it'll make a mess. I've considered buying disposable cotton gloves for handing models to reduce the skin oil contamination.

[AndrewDrexler]

Ouch WM, that sucks.

On the other hand.. since it is already "ruined", or at least requiring a complete stripping, why don't you make what happens into battle damage. Rough up the bare spots and spray in some sooty black like it has been trailing atmosphere. The use some oil streaks for some directional travel (after it has been glossed or future applied) and it could be the plane that went through heck and back to land.

[wm cheng]

Oil washes are less problematic with Alclad I've found. Even then, if your Alclad doesn't have a strong clean surface to adhere to it'll make a mess. I've considered buying disposable cotton gloves for handing models to reduce the skin oil contamination.

Funny, this is the first time I've used the Alclad gloss black undercoat - I thought that since so much bare metal was showing, I'd properly prepare a good surface for the Alclad. All the other times in the past, I just spray directly over the plastic (ironic eh?).

Ouch WM, that sucks.

On the other hand.. since it is already "ruined", or at least requiring a complete stripping, why don't you make what happens into battle damage. Rough up the bare spots and spray in some sooty black like it has been trailing atmosphere. The use some oil streaks for some directional travel (after it has been glossed or future applied) and it could be the plane that went through heck and back to land.

I thought about "battle-damage" - but the damage just isn't in the "right" areas. I also tried re-spraying over the affected areas, but there is such a height difference between the plastic, basecoat and metalizer that it all shows through, now I just have a silver colored piece of poo! I'm also very particular about the final finish, so there is no way to salvage this unless it's a complete strip back to bare plastic - the problem is I hardly ever have any spare time, so if I have any time, I would like to build a new one instead of repair a failure - my time is too precious these days. I already re-ordered them from HLJ, but they're on June restock - I hope I don't have any problems getting them again, they are a nice little kit (as far as Bandai kits go) - very Anime, not very realistic as aircrafts go, but nice for Bandai.

[Noyhauser]

Hey WM

So a couple of tips.

First, the Alclad black primer is actually not a lacquer but enamel. The mineral spirits will attack it no matter what so it needs to be sealed directly by future if you're going to use an oil wash... and it doesn't matter what paint you apply. I think Dark aluminum and jet exhaust are particularly tough alclad paints, but I have been able to remove them with not too much effort and some mineral spirits.I've learned that the hard way. Personally I don't like the black stuff, its why I've gone to buying older bottles of MM dark green or blue for cheap, OR my new favorite; thinned Mr Surfacer, with Mr Thinner.

To repair this I have two suggestions. I've been exactly where you are right now... see the lighter area behind the cockpit:

In that case I used rub and buff to simulate some wear and tear on a panel, but nothing too extreme. That's one option.

My suggestion is get yourself an black MM bottle or thin the alclad black with the mineral spirits (I'm not sure if that will work so test it out first). Mask out the affected areas and take a high grit sand paper and gently flatten out the mess. just get it so that the alclad won't show any discrepancies. Rescribe any panels as needed. then hit it with the thinned out black primer... really going slow and light with each pass. That way you avoid it showing unwanted shadows. I used Rub and buff without doing too much and the wrinkling looked okay. But I've also did it with alclad and it went okay too. It might make sense to use a different tint here (dark aluminum) so that if there are any minor errors, it looks more realistic... look at how CF-104 starfighters or F-100s have this effect with different metal types.

Trust me, I'vebeen where you are many a time with Alclad, and you can fix it. It just takes a bit of careful effort.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Noyhauser

[MechTech]

Thanks WM and Nohauser for sharing the tips! That sucks WM! In my case, I'd say to my young son, "here son, go play with this" so at least somebody could enjoy it! I feel for you. I've trashed a few attempts at making parts for my 1/350 Monster. The small parts are a bare to machine! - MT

[wm cheng]

Thanks for the comments...

Ah! Noyhauser, I didn't know the Alclad was a enamel... I thought it was lacquer based. That explains it. I look at the bottle now that you said it, and its says in big letters "Alclad II Lacquer" and the side even has Alclad Lacquers and address (but I realize that is just the name) on the other side in small letters it says "Contains Mineral Spirits" which is a clue to enamels but no where on the bottle does it say enamel. I was surprised as I thought it would be great at self levelling - but it didn't. The Alclad grey primer is fantastic at self-levelling, so I thought this was the same thing, just in black - boy was I wrong!

Thanks for the tips, but I just don't have the time, energy or patience to sand and re-scribe anymore... unless my HLJ order doesn't come through and Bandai no longer makes these kits, $25 isn't worth my time to fix it. I'd rather start over, if it was a small patch, then I'd re-consider, but its everywhere and I'd loose too many of the small details in the crevices. Oh well, its a learning experience.

[Chronocidal]

Well, I guess the question is, since the oil wash took the paint off down to the plastic already, would you be able to just do the same thing to the rest of the plane, and remove the paint that way, so you don't have to sand or rescribe much?

[wm cheng]

I might try those panel line washes instead of mixing my own artist oil wash all the time... any good ones to suggest? What's their solvent? How do they react?

Well, I guess the question is, since the oil wash took the paint off down to the plastic already, would you be able to just do the same thing to the rest of the plane, and remove the paint that way, so you don't have to sand or rescribe much?

Yes, but I'm lazy... we'll see, it might not be out of the question.

[Benson13]

You guys talk talk of rescribing panel lines every now and again, what is used and what techniques are used?

[anime52k8]

Well, I guess the question is, since the oil wash took the paint off down to the plastic already, would you be able to just do the same thing to the rest of the plane, and remove the paint that way, so you don't have to sand or rescribe much?

just scrubbing the part with mineral spirits isn't going to consistently remove the paint and could damage the underlying plastic.

The best way to strip paint from a model is to get an old Tupperware container big enough to fit the part you want to strip and then soak the thing for 12~72 hours in DOT3 or DOT4 brake Fluid. (DO NOT USE DOT2 or DOT5. DOES NOT WORK). Once the paint starts to slough off, get a toothbrush and some rubber gloves and start scrubbing the parts till all the paint is gone then wash them clean with warm soapy water (use dawn dish soap). and when you're done just re-bottle the brake fluid and save it for the next time you have to strip something.

seriously, if there's one thing I've gotten good at with model kits, it's stripping screwed up paint. (I've done it way more times than I care to admit). Brake fluid will strip everything from acrylics to automotive lacquers and has in my experience not damaged the underlying plastic.

BTW, slightly related question: would spraying Alclad II over Tamiya Gloss black spray lacquer work? I've worked with Alclad before but I've only ever sprayed it strait over Tamiya grey/white primer.

[Ghadrack]

Your critical errors still make me feel bad about my modelling skills. I'm sorry that your time and effort were lost but even watching your errors has probably saved your community of fans dozens of times what that kit cost you because you are so good, so try to take that as a consolation, when the master demonstrates a learning, the pupils take heed

Thank you again for the hundredth time for sharing your threads. You are an inspiration to many of us Macross fans!

[wm cheng]

Thanks for the encouraging words all.

That's why I post it here, hopefully it will save others from the same mistakes.

I am constantly learning all the time and with the internet, I learn that much faster. I didn't know the black gloss undercoat was enamel by Alclad - now I do. Thanks for the brake fluid tip, good to know even if I don't do it on this baby, at least I've learned something new.

I think I will try the ProModeller's wash (Flory) if I can find some local hobby shop with it around here - its clay based and water soluable, so it seems very inert. Well we'll see when I can start up again. I need a little time to lick my wounds (plus I'm starting another film on Monday, so it might be a while).

Thanks for all the support though.

[Checkmate]

Alclad black is ENAMEL? LOL! I've been mixing it with Mr. Color White all this time! ...that's why after a few seconds it kinda separates from the white in my airbrush cup.

[Noyhauser]

You guys talk talk of rescribing panel lines every now and again, what is used and what techniques are used?

So I use a bunch of different tools... really depending on the effect I'm trying to achieve.

So from left to right:

JLC Razor saw. Basically that's my #1 tool right there. Its actually a phenomenal for cutting items off of sprues because it does not do any damage to the part's plastic. clipers can do a little bit (turning it white), which can be a problem in some cases like clear parts. However In this case, the saw is really great for scribing straight long lines on kits. Its probably the second advanced items I'd suggest any aspiring modeler buy. This is the deck of my 1/200 yamato that I've been rescribing and the effect I've gotten with the Saw (it was the first time I did it... so excuse some of the errors.)

#2 Some Unamed japanese scriber. Truth be told I don't know its manufacturer's name, and I'm even less clear about its use. I bought it recently and haven't figured it out yet. Its part of my tool kit so I added it.

#3 Rosie the Riveter tool. I actually have two of them in different sizes. I think this is the slightly larger one. Its for making lines of rivets you see on aircraft. I also use it for punching holes on miniature seat belts. This was my first attempt at riveting an aircraft... in this case a 1/72 DB-8 in natural metal finish. In many cases rivet lines are more realistic than panel lines.

#4 Brass metal straight edge

I lied... this is actually my most critical tool. I use this to keep my lines straight when scribing. I've got smaller pieces and I often tape them to a surface to keep them straight as I scribe.

#5(right top) Hasegawa Tritool Template Set 1. I searched for years until I found this set by hasegawa. Its great for making little hatches and the like.

#6 (Right bottom) Model Design Construction 1:48 riveter kit. I use this little set for two things. One is riveting; the Rosie tool can't do circles and the like and this set is very good at that. I also use it with the template set to scribe circles or other shapes as well. The sharp end really does great at scribing... but I may actually buy a proper tool for this in the future (hasegawa has a nice one for about 1400 yen.)

On the whole most of my scribing is taking a raised panel line kit and converting it to a engraved kit. In those cases I don't use #4, rather I trace the panel line with the raised line and sand it off after I'm done. It often comes down to what my references tell me. With the DB-8 above, alot of photos show multitudes of rivets, so I took the opportunity to use the rosie riveter.

Hope that helps.

just scrubbing the part with mineral spirits isn't going to consistently remove the paint and could damage the underlying plastic.

The best way to strip paint from a model is to get an old Tupperware container big enough to fit the part you want to strip and then soak the thing for 12~72 hours in DOT3 or DOT4 brake Fluid. (DO NOT USE DOT2 or DOT5. DOES NOT WORK). Once the paint starts to slough off, get a toothbrush and some rubber gloves and start scrubbing the parts till all the paint is gone then wash them clean with warm soapy water (use dawn dish soap). and when you're done just re-bottle the brake fluid and save it for the next time you have to strip something.

seriously, if there's one thing I've gotten good at with model kits, it's stripping screwed up paint. (I've done it way more times than I care to admit). Brake fluid will strip everything from acrylics to automotive lacquers and has in my experience not damaged the underlying plastic.

The problem I have with that is that you might lose the cockpit detail. In most cases I have an elaborately done up cockpit and if there is a leak or something... well that hard work goes away.

BTW, slightly related question: would spraying Alclad II over Tamiya Gloss black spray lacquer work? I've worked with Alclad before but I've only ever sprayed it strait over Tamiya grey/white primer.

That's the ideal primer. Alot of people decant it from the spray and shoot it through their air brush.