Whats Lying on your Workbench MK IV

[Sanity is Optional]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

The bed is actually covered by a textured sheet, so the sandpaper probably wouldn't change anything, but I'll see if I can find some of that tape.  Worst case, I can probably try a gluestick on it as well.

I usually don't have -too- many problems with detaching, but larger prints with ABS have been tending to pull up just from the stress of the cooling plastic above the bed.

I won't know until tomorrow though, got too many things to do in the interim, so I won't start this print until tomorrow afternoon.

Yeah, I have one of those textured ABS sheets underneath, had to cover it up because the grip was a bit too good and I couldn't get the prints off. The Kapton tape is great since if it sticks too much I can just peel the tape off and the part with it.

I use 4" wide ~2.5mil thick tape (1mil kapton, ~1.5mil adhesive), 15feet for $33 at Mcmaster, and a bit cheaper elsewhere.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Sanity is Optional

[Chronocidal]

I don't think I'm worried about the grip being too good, since I'd actually rather have to order extra extra build plate covers than have to deal with prints this extensive failing.  We'll see how it goes, I'll do a few test runs and see how things stick.

Overall though, pretty productive weekend.  Got a few detail parts printed that probably didn't need to be separate parts, but it does make them much easier to sand smooth.  They just slot into place perfectly, I'm continually amazed by the fit.  

The big challenge was printing some of the tiny weapons mounts that this ship has.  I debated whether it would make sense to just make them out of small metal rods, or even out of toothpicks, but I'd need some kind of microscopic lathe to get the shapes right.  

The biggest issue with parts this small is getting the ABS to cool enough between layers so that each new pass from the print head doesn't deform what's below it.  Took me a few attempts, but the best success was when I printed a whole batch of them at once so the print head had more to do.  They're all mounted on small mouting blocks with a flat support structure to give them more stability.

I went through a few iterations of diameters on these to get something stable.  The smaller guns on the right are actually a tri-barreled design, and that got insanely fragile before I just let the barrels grow and merge into a sort of triangular shape.

A lot of them came out rather blobby from the print head just re-heating lower layers and messing with the shape.

Finally had some good success with both sets when I batch printed a few.

The whole thing is gradually taking shape.  Wing is the next step, then I'll start working on getting the other major components done, which should be much more similar to the engine pods.

The printer I have has room, so once all of this is done, I might print an even larger one someday, and add a full cockpit.  Would be fun to see how much detail can be crammed in if the whole ship were more like two feet long.  As it is, this version will come out at close to ten inches, which is just a really nice desk display size.

[pengbuzz]

 

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I don't think I'm worried about the grip being too good, since I'd actually rather have to order extra extra build plate covers than have to deal with prints this extensive failing.  We'll see how it goes, I'll do a few test runs and see how things stick.

Overall though, pretty productive weekend.  Got a few detail parts printed that probably didn't need to be separate parts, but it does make them much easier to sand smooth.  They just slot into place perfectly, I'm continually amazed by the fit.  

The big challenge was printing some of the tiny weapons mounts that this ship has.  I debated whether it would make sense to just make them out of small metal rods, or even out of toothpicks, but I'd need some kind of microscopic lathe to get the shapes right.  

The biggest issue with parts this small is getting the ABS to cool enough between layers so that each new pass from the print head doesn't deform what's below it.  Took me a few attempts, but the best success was when I printed a whole batch of them at once so the print head had more to do.  They're all mounted on small mouting blocks with a flat support structure to give them more stability.

I went through a few iterations of diameters on these to get something stable.  The smaller guns on the right are actually a tri-barreled design, and that got insanely fragile before I just let the barrels grow and merge into a sort of triangular shape.

A lot of them came out rather blobby from the print head just re-heating lower layers and messing with the shape.

Finally had some good success with both sets when I batch printed a few.

The whole thing is gradually taking shape.  Wing is the next step, then I'll start working on getting the other major components done, which should be much more similar to the engine pods.

The printer I have has room, so once all of this is done, I might print an even larger one someday, and add a full cockpit.  Would be fun to see how much detail can be crammed in if the whole ship were more like two feet long.  As it is, this version will come out at close to ten inches, which is just a really nice desk display size.

Looking forward to seeing this all together.

 

[MechTech]

@derex3592 I love the lighting color. It looks warm and realistic. Looking good!

@505thAirborne Those came out awesome! The colors really make everything pop, especially with the markings.

@Chronocidal I hope everything goes well. That's a LONG print time!

@peter Looking good on the assembly line! That Tamiya weathering stuff looks so much like makeup I'm actually going to get some when it's back in stock at the local Hobby Lobby. REAL dust has made some of my mecha look more realistic - MT

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, MechTech said:

@derex3592 I love the lighting color. It looks warm and realistic. Looking good!

@505thAirborne Those came out awesome! The colors really make everything pop, especially with the markings.

@Chronocidal I hope everything goes well. That's a LONG print time!

@peter Looking good on the assembly line! That Tamiya weathering stuff looks so much like makeup I'm actually going to get some when it's back in stock at the local Hobby Lobby. REAL dust has made some of my mecha look more realistic - MT

Be careful your wife doesn't mistake it for makeup!!

[arbit]

505th, Those look like DX quality. Nice job!

[Chronocidal]

Progress continues, and after two false starts and about 22 hours..

The first two prints failed within about an hour of starting, so no massive losses on that end, thankfully.  It took me a couple of revisions to get the support structure laid out in a way that would stay solid.

Only major flaw I see is where there's a random band of what I can only assume was a bad segment of plastic in the spool, where it just left a few bubbles on one surface, and a lighter strip across the wing.  Will be easy to fill in and sand smooth.

I wound up making a couple of little mistakes in the cleanup, but as it turns out, they were things I didn't need anyway.  I over-built the model significantly, and some of the interlocking tabs I built in were not necessary.  The one long tube on the back of the wing was meant to support the tail, but the other side doesn't need it at all.

Back edge is naturally a bit rough from printing downward, but I intended that.  I learned a while back to add a thin tab of plastic to support any sharp edge I wanted to preserve, and I just clipped them off, and sanded the edge smooth.  Still will need a little filler and finer sanding in some spots where the layers flaked away, but nothing bad at all.

Far as fit goes, I'm just grinning until my face hurts.  Everything just slots together like a finely cut jigsaw puzzle.  Was actually funny, the ruffled nature of the plastic print gave a slight "wheeee" sound as it slid together... and I almost couldn't pull it back apart.  I had to sand things down slightly just so I wouldn't break it from repeated test fittings.

I've got four main components left, and I'm expecting three to take between 10 and 15 hours each, with the final part being probably an hour or so for the canopy.  All told, the parts shown here have taken about 60 hours to print, not counting restarts and failures.

Next up is looking like the nose.  Keeping fingers crossed, but that's a more straight-forward blocky shape again, so hopefully less trouble staying stable on the print bed.

[peter]

Basically done.  The two bases are slightly different colors because Hikaru's base has an extra coat of Pledge and Tamiya Flat Clear.  Might remedy that later.

Far from perfect, but was nice chance to practice different techniques.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by peter
Edited for spelling

[peter]

Any City Hunter Fans here?  

Bandai 1/72 Valk pilot on the right, Hasegawa DYRL pilot on the left 

Took the Bandai pilot, trimmed his flight suit, added 80's shoulders and Ryo's sweet hairdo.

Not exactly a spitting image, but my first time mucking around with Vallejo plastic putty and sculpting anything.

Saeba Ryo is apparently impossible to kill, Roy thinks about Pineapple salad and dies.

Edited April 13, 2021 by peter
Edited for spelling

[pengbuzz]

UPDATE: got some decals printed up-

 

 

Still have some rough patches to clear up here and there, but nothing too hard. Stay tuned...

Edited April 13, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Thom]

@Chronocidal That is some great model making! Love the look and the size of it. We're all going wheeeeeeeeeeee!

@peter Great work on those decks. They look... great!

@pengbuzz Looking good on the Enterprise!

[MechTech]

@Chronocidal Great job with the printing! It's looking good!

@peter Great finish on your models! They look realistic on deck and out in the sun. All that hair (and shoulder pads) on a pilot are just wrong!

@pengbuzz It's great news that you got the printer going and decals printed up! They came our great! - MT

Edited April 13, 2021 by MechTech

[Chronocidal]

It's funny, I'm hitting this point where I legitimately wonder whether building this design out of sheet styrene would be less work than printing it.  

Main nose section is out, as well as the canopy, so I'm just waiting on the last two major components to put the whole ship together now, which should take about 9 hours each.  I'm debating whether I actually want to sand the print smooth, or just slap some paint and markings on it and call it done.

[Thom]

@Chronocidal I'd say sand it. You've already put a lot of hours into it.

 

 

[Chronocidal]

Definitely, though part of me likes the idea of keeping the first print in a "stock" state, as a reminder of how it came out of the printer, kind of like a first molding proof.  I'll admit, there's also something fascinating to me about the raw textured surface.

As little as I want to make another full print, I probably will somewhere down the road, just to paint up multiple versions.  I still need to experiment with paintschemes and markings, after all, and if I do the canon scheme from Wing Commander III, it's actually a Heater-Ferris scheme derivative, so that's going to be all kinds of fun to mask and spray. 

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Definitely, though part of me likes the idea of keeping the first print in a "stock" state, as a reminder of how it came out of the printer, kind of like a first molding proof.  I'll admit, there's also something fascinating to me about the raw textured surface.

As little as I want to make another full print, I probably will somewhere down the road, just to paint up multiple versions.  I still need to experiment with paintschemes and markings, after all, and if I do the canon scheme from Wing Commander III, it's actually a Heater-Ferris scheme derivative, so that's going to be all kinds of fun to mask and spray. 

Fun would be the WC IV "Dragon" fighter....

 

BTW: I just realized which fighter you're building! One of the most famous in Wing Commander...the Excalibur-

https://wingcommander.fandom.com/wiki/F-103_Excalibur_Heavy_Fighter

And here I thought it was the Hellcat! lol

Edited April 14, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Chronocidal]

Oh, they're all fun to think about doing, but I'm probably not attempting another project at this scale without some proper CAD software that can do variable features.  Cutting panel lines in this model was incredibly annoying, because they're physically cut into the solid model, and can't be adjusted if I ever wanted to make a bigger version, and needed to shrink them.

I did make a point to save the model at multiple points so I can just re-cut the panel lines at another size if I really want to, but some actual proper CAD software (that is, not 3D Studio Max ) would have better tools to draw panel line paths, and just dynamically change their depth and profile on the fly.

[Thom]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Definitely, though part of me likes the idea of keeping the first print in a "stock" state, as a reminder of how it came out of the printer, kind of like a first molding proof.  I'll admit, there's also something fascinating to me about the raw textured surface.

As little as I want to make another full print, I probably will somewhere down the road, just to paint up multiple versions.  I still need to experiment with paintschemes and markings, after all, and if I do the canon scheme from Wing Commander III, it's actually a Heater-Ferris scheme derivative, so that's going to be all kinds of fun to mask and spray. 

Resin copies. Once cleaned, those pieces could be used as masters, either done by yourself, or maybe someone who works with resin regularly could help, and maybe getting a few free copies as payment.

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

Resin copies. Once cleaned, those pieces could be used as masters, either done by yourself, or maybe someone who works with resin regularly could help, and maybe getting a few free copies as payment.

Oh, that possibility absolutely crossed my mind, but I also know that I'm entirely not the person to do it.

Ideally, what should happen with this model?  It should be printed by someone with a liquid resin printer, and then polished up and recast.  A liquid printer would produce a much higher quality master than mine can.  I would even theoretically say a Shapeways print would be preferable, but something this big would probably be ungodly expensive... and I would not want to work with the materials Shapeways use, because they are utter hell to sand.

As far as this one goes, I'm absolutely building it up and making a desk model of it, because I've wanted a model of this ship for roughly twenty five years.  Right now, I'm just getting antsy to get the whole thing together and zoom it around the office a while.  

Edit: Checked whether Shapeways would even be able to print it, and looks like one this size would be between about $300 and $600, depending on material and smoothness options.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Chronocidal

[Salamander]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Oh, that possibility absolutely crossed my mind, but I also know that I'm entirely not the person to do it.

Ideally, what should happen with this model?  It should be printed by someone with a liquid resin printer, and then polished up and recast.  A liquid printer would produce a much higher quality master than mine can.  I would even theoretically say a Shapeways print would be preferable, but something this big would probably be ungodly expensive... and I would not want to work with the materials Shapeways use, because they are utter hell to sand.

Yes, the quality of the master is going to be the problem with casting resin copies of 3D printed items. I've seen some resin kits based on 3D printed parts at a recent model show (which would be in 2019 due to COVID-19 banning all subsequent shows around here), and their finishing was "fuzzy" at best :o, not smooth at all. The problem was sanding off the printing lines on parts with lots of detail...

[Chronocidal]

We do have a few folks here who have used printed models as masters for recasts I know; Xigfrid and his Ghost X-9 and VF-9 models come to mind, which I think were all prototyped on a printer.

With enough elbow grease (and a little bit of filler putty) I can definitely get these parts smooth enough to recast, but that's partly because these pieces are so simple, and have no raised details.  It's actually part of why I like working in ABS, it polishes up very nicely.  I haven't done much sanding yet, but I test-sanded one of my scrap tail prototypes a while back, and just today sanded and polished the canopy piece to a fairly high gloss.

[Chronocidal]

Boy, I can't even call this "done" yet, but does it ever feel like an achievement.

Twenty-one pieces all told, with a total of about 112 hours in print time.  I definitely over-engineered the interlocking tabs, and failed to account for how difficult it was going to be to remove the support structures from inside some of the parts, so I just broke out the smaller middle teeth from the wing section.  It didn't have any affect on how sturdily it goes together, with absolutely no need for glue.

Length looks to be almost ten inches even, which puts the scale at something like 1/125 or so based on the game's quoted length of 32 meters, but I think that's always felt a little inflated, and I think a 1/100 pilot would fit inside the cockpit if I made one.  One project at a time, though.   I still have some potential detail parts to make for this that would go in the recessed panels scattered around the ship, but I'm not sure I made the spaces deep enough to be useful for that.

I did sand and polish up the canopy, so I know the plastic will shine up nicely if I decide to do that.  For the moment, I'm just having fun making spaceship noises and swooshing it around the room.  

Fortunately, with the way it's built, I can probably assemble the components after painting.  That will make it a lot easier to pull this off.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Chronocidal

[pengbuzz]

UPDATE:

Some paintwork done on the Tomcat ( Corrosion-control painting weathering):

Soon, I will be moving into attaching weapons rails and tanks (need to check the movie for whether these are on Maverick's bird during their time @ Miramar); before that, need to check specific references from the movie on any distinguishing different-colored panels and whatnot on the plane.

On another note, before I knew that we were going to obtain a new printer, I had put in an inquiry with Round 2 about the cost of obtaining the decal sheet for the refit; on their re-pop of the kit they had redone the decal sheet, correcting the old markings and adding additional ones as well. This was about a couple of weeks ago or so.

Being that I had misprinted some of the markings (I didn't use them, such as the hull registry numbers on the nacelles and such), I was preparing for another round of resizing and reprinting. Lo and behold, to my surprise, I got an email from them stating that they were sending me the decals!

O.o

So, just going to hold off on printing replacements here, and thank those at Round2 who seem to like me an awful lot!

 

Stay tuned...

 

[Gabe Q]

@Chronocidal great work on that print! I can't wait to see her all done!

@pengbuzz it looks like you're in the final stretch for that F-14 build. Glad to see you got the canopy all sorted out. 

I just put a flat coat on the last few pieces of my super gerwalk build. It's still early so I may post a follow up pic when I'm all done later. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Gabe Q
Add pic

[Thom]

@Chronocidal Wow, is that ship looking good! Make some swoosh noises for us too!

@pengbuzz Looking really nice there, Pengbuzz! Really liking the shading.

@Gabe Q Can't wait to see it all fall together! Gonna look nice.

[pengbuzz]

12 minutes ago, Thom said:

@Chronocidal Wow, is that ship looking good! Make some swoosh noises for us too!

@pengbuzz Looking really nice there, Pengbuzz! Really liking the shading.

@Gabe Q Can't wait to see it all fall together! Gonna look nice.

Thanks Thom; more to come on this, as I went over the DVD and picked one version of maverick's Tomcat (I counted three versions of Mav's Tomcat, each with a different modex) to replicate. The weathering's going to look a little heavy, but that's how it appears in the film (to me, anyways):

Added the underside fuel tanks; just need to add in the underwing missile stores.

Stay tuned folks...

 

 

[derex3592]

@pengbuzz - Never trust a guy with a clean Tomcat.....dirtier the better! 

[electric indigo]

@Chronocidal Very impressive progress there. Would a cockpit/canopy from an F-15 fit in there? There was a 1/100 kit of that.

_

Horny resin things around here:

[Chronocidal]

I think the shape and angle of the cockpit would require a custom design, but I could probably kitbash a seat and instrument panel from other kits.

I'm not worried about a cockpit though, since I don't really have a viable method to make a transparent canopy piece.  Might be able to use the printed canopy as a vacuum-molding buck, but I think I would rather reserve that kind of upgrade for some future theoretical 1/48 scale version. 

[Gabe Q]

@electric indigo always good to see what you're working on. 

A little more progress on my super gerwalk. Masking the last little details then it's on to final assembly. 

[Dobber]

@pengbuzz your Tomcat is looking awesome!

Chris

[MechTech]

@Chronocidal Congrats on a cool kit! That came our great! lot of 80's square goodness.

@pengbuzz That is one dirty cat! If you want the full effect, put some greasy hand prints around some access hatches. Like from a cut out eraser tip to stamp them on. Some friends that were maintenance said there were always hand prints around! We'd never let our aircraft get that dirty in the Air Force

@Gabe Q Looking good Gabe! Clean and nice and sharp lines. - MT

[Thom]

@Gabe Q that Super Val is looking sharp.

[pengbuzz]

9 hours ago, derex3592 said:

@pengbuzz - Never trust a guy with a clean Tomcat.....dirtier the better! 

 

5 hours ago, Dobber said:

@pengbuzz your Tomcat is looking awesome!

Chris

 

4 hours ago, MechTech said:

@pengbuzz That is one dirty cat! If you want the full effect, put some greasy hand prints around some access hatches. Like from a cut out eraser tip to stamp them on. Some friends that were maintenance said there were always hand prints around! We'd never let our aircraft get that dirty in the Air Force

Thanks guys! I did have to walk it back a bit though, as the dark areas looked more bluish than "dirty"; was trying to go for a multi-layered paint and repaint job here! lol

Current results so far:

I finally finished the framing on the cockpit, which is hard for me to get my head around, because the canopy came from a different model!

Stay tuned...

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by pengbuzz

[peter]

On 4/14/2021 at 4:12 PM, Chronocidal said:

Boy, I can't even call this "done" yet, but does it ever feel like an achievement.

Twenty-one pieces all told, with a total of about 112 hours in print time.  I definitely over-engineered the interlocking tabs, and failed to account for how difficult it was going to be to remove the support structures from inside some of the parts, so I just broke out the smaller middle teeth from the wing section.  It didn't have any affect on how sturdily it goes together, with absolutely no need for glue.

Length looks to be almost ten inches even, which puts the scale at something like 1/125 or so based on the game's quoted length of 32 meters, but I think that's always felt a little inflated, and I think a 1/100 pilot would fit inside the cockpit if I made one.  One project at a time, though.   I still have some potential detail parts to make for this that would go in the recessed panels scattered around the ship, but I'm not sure I made the spaces deep enough to be useful for that.

I did sand and polish up the canopy, so I know the plastic will shine up nicely if I decide to do that.  For the moment, I'm just having fun making spaceship noises and swooshing it around the room.  

Fortunately, with the way it's built, I can probably assemble the components after painting.  That will make it a lot easier to pull this off.

 

I don't know what ship this is, but it's cool.  3D printing technology is amazing.