The Transformers thread

[VF5SS]

Jet designs such as the F22, the F35 and even the good old F117 are very unforgiving jet designs. Any deviation to their very typical and exact shape, will stand out as inaccurate.

well having legs and arms on the underside is inaccurate.

This is where the complexities of a CGi transformation simply cannot be replicated exactly into a 15 dollar toy. With that in mind I think the endresult is quite the accomplishement (speaking about the new deluxe mold), even if one doesn't like the style of the robot design.

well that's what they get for using bullshit magic CGI designs.

[mikeszekely]

So in the end electronic features ruin otherwise good toy design. That was the point of the last 15 or so posts right?

That's what I thought, but this is the internet. I think we're still determined to argue about the minor details.

[Negotiator]

Re: leader SS.

Ya, I don't think anyone was expecting 100% accuracy. We all know there's going to be bot kibble, especially on jets. I think Its simply the "what if this damn electronic box wasn't here? How much more slimmer could it have been?"

Edited August 17, 2011 by Negotiator

[knoted]

I think Its simply the "what if this damn electronic box wasn't here? How much more slimmer could it have been?"

Yep...and "Could the transformation have been a bit more creative ? ( e.g. not just straightened out legs beneath jet )"

Answer : "Probably" ( see Deluxe version )

I'll raise the same questions for Jetfire though. Probably a bit trickier to answer.

[BoBe-Patt]

Anybody pick up TFCC exclusive Sideburn on their website this morning?

[David Hingtgen]

I'll raise the same questions for Jetfire though. Probably a bit trickier to answer.

Jetfire would be impossible to be perfect, or even close, (it's an SR-71, they're like 1-inch thick in places) but removing the electronics box would probably have allowed his legs to actually transform correctly, with the thigh-turbines actually being inside the engine nacelles in jet mode, and quite hidden. Plus probably have allowed some of the back kibble to fold up inside more, making for less bot-mode kibble.

[GU-11]

I agree with the general consensus here: it's the all the lights and sound-box gimmicks that ruin Leader class TF's more than anything else. Leader class ROTF Optimus could have been A THIRD SLIMMER had it not been for the battery pack. And I'm pretty sure LC Starscream's jet mode could have been slimmer without the batteries, too.

I'd also like to add that time constraints also plays a part in bad TF designs. The toys have to be ready for release by the time the movie hits the theaters, and Micheal Bay works like a nuclear-powered Energizer bunny. It took them an extra two years to "perfect" Optimus' leader class toy [i used quotes only because the damn battery pack prevents it from true perfection]. The first movieverse leader toy looks almost primitive compared to the ROTF version.

As for Jetfire, I think he could have turned out worse, considering the roles he had to play as a toy: jet mode, alt mode, and combined jet parts for Optimus.

[JB0]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it.

Fast Action Battler Jetfire was a better transformer than Leader Jetfire.

Also, that derail about how Valkyries are nothing but kibble is really interesting given the only valk that has a lot of robot kibble is the YF-21/VF-22(the rest of them all have parts that actually "transform").

And the solution to all that kibble is one that would be highly workable on the Transformers jets: there's doors that close over the kibble, giving it a jet bottom instead of a hang-gliding robot.

Yes, the jets would be too thick, and there'd have to be SOMEWHERE to stash the folded-up doors lest we have another hip kibble drama-bomb like we did with Masterpiece Starscream(I still think the tail kibble looked far better hanging off his hips than off his ankles, but what do I know?). But it's still a lot better than hang-glider robots.

[eugimon]

valkries are kibble-tastic? lol.

rest of thread not worth reading.

[treatment]

i think knoted just like to justify his bizarre preference for kibbletastically fugly TFs by being delusional about the Valkyries' supposed "kibble"-ness.

by moving his goalposts too much, i don't think he actually knows what "kibble" even means at this point anymore.

that is, if he even knows what kibble means in the first place.

[David Hingtgen]

That brings up another point---WHY do Transformer toys use a bunch of AA batteries? Why not AAA, or even watch batteries? We all know LED's need very little power and most can run off 3 volts. Just switching from AA to AAA would help, but going to button-cell batteries could cut the electronic box sizes down by like 80%...

[EXO]

That brings up another point---WHY do Transformer toys use a bunch of AA batteries? Why not AAA, or even watch batteries? We all know LED's need very little power and most can run off 3 volts. Just switching from AA to AAA would help, but going to button-cell batteries could cut the electronic box sizes down by like 80%...

C.O.N... spiracy!!!

[GU-11]

That brings up another point---WHY do Transformer toys use a bunch of AA batteries? Why not AAA, or even watch batteries? We all know LED's need very little power and most can run off 3 volts. Just switching from AA to AAA would help, but going to button-cell batteries could cut the electronic box sizes down by like 80%...

That's a very good idea, actually.

I suppose it's the higher price of button-cell batteries that prevent them from being used. Most higher-end Hasbro TF's tend to have "try me" features that allow kids to activate the voice-chips, most likely to tempt them to beg Daddy for an early Christmas gift on the spot. They'd have include the batteries if they want to keep this strategy.

But going back to the power consumption issue, they also have to power the voice chip as well as the LED's. I'm not sure how much power those button-cell batteries have, but the speaker for the sound gimmick might use up quite a bit of energy.

[knoted]

that is, if he even knows what kibble means in the first place.

You say tomatoes I say tomatoes. The ahhum, 'terminology' discussion is pretty irrelevant.

It's all about some people being hardheaded and not showing ANY acknowledgement of constraints, the Hasbro people have to work with and consequently

they make an apples to oranges comparison by saying 'VF designs are superior'.

i think knoted just like to justify his bizarre preference for kibbletastically fugly TFs by being delusional about the Valkyries' supposed "kibble"-ness.

I have said Leader class Jetfire and Starscream are compromised & fugly solutions, as toy interpretations of complex CGi designs.

Voyager class ROTF Starscream and deluxe class DOTM Starscream are both fantastic toy jet Transformers. Heck, the former even features the sleek cap to hide robot parts (and the hands folded up in the original design, alas budget cuts cut that feature).

People often just bash these movie TF toys, only for disliking the cgi robot mode design, plain and simple. And that's a crooked way to judge a toy on its own merits.

On a sidenote : The beams on Masterpiece Starscream's hips ; now THAT is what people call 'kibble'. And that's why this prototype version is superior to the final product. Igear's KO's are employing the solution right now btw :

Edited August 18, 2011 by knoted

[VF5SS]

iGear's change to the MP Jet design is pretty bad. I have their Ramjet and it can't even stand up because of the wings on the legs. The sliding mechanism they use it also pretty awful and is prone to becoming unseated.

[kanedaestes]

You say tomatoes I say tomatoes. The ahhum, 'terminology' discussion is pretty irrelevant.

It's all about some people being hardheaded and not showing ANY acknowledgement of constraints, the Hasbro people have to work with and consequently

they make an apples to oranges comparison by saying 'VF designs are superior'.

I have said Leader class Jetfire and Starscream are compromised & fugly solutions, as toy interpretations of complex CGi designs.

Voyager class ROTF Starscream and deluxe class DOTM Starscream are both fantastic toy jet Transformers. Heck, the former even features the sleek cap to hide robot parts (and the hands folded up in the original design, alas budget cuts cut that feature).

People often just bash these movie TF toys, only for disliking the cgi robot mode design, plain and simple. And that's a crooked way to judge a toy on its own merits.

On a sidenote : The beams on Masterpiece Starscream's hips ; now THAT is what people call 'kibble'. And that's why this prototype version is superior to the final product. Igear's KO's are employing the solution right now btw :

Um superior is a bit much considering it's the exact same thing, only the side kibble is placed in a different area. I would know because I detach the kibble and add it to the legs which takes all of two seconds.

[mikeszekely]

It's all about some people being hardheaded and not showing ANY acknowledgement of constraints, the Hasbro people have to work with and consequently

they make an apples to oranges comparison by saying 'VF designs are superior'.

Prior to your first reply, who said that? All of the discussion had been complaining about Leader Starscream and Leader Jetfire. And the primary complaint wasn't that you had any constraints, it was that the electronics were an unnecessary constraint and that their alt modes would likely have been better with out them. I (and I think most of us) agree that Transformers to Valkyries are an apples to oranges comparison, which is why NO ONE was making it until you brought it up. The ONLY mention of Valkyries prior to your first reply was a suggestion that Starscream might have been improved if his Transformation was similar to a Yamato VF-22. Whether that's true or not, I can't really say, but I feel comfortable with the idea that it's not the same as saying that Starscream should have BEEN a VF-22, or that the VF-22 is a better design than movie Starscream, or that Yamato makes better toys than Hasbro/Takara.

[treatment]

You say tomatoes I say tomatoes. The ahhum, 'terminology' discussion is pretty irrelevant.

No.

Not only is the correct terminology is important, but also the implementation of that terminology is also significant. Just so that we all know what is actually being discussed and people don't get the wrong idea to get on a completely different tangent.

It's all about some people being hardheaded and not showing ANY acknowledgement of constraints, the Hasbro people have to work with and consequently

they make an apples to oranges comparison by saying 'VF designs are superior'.

I think you're the only one being hardheaded here because you simply just got the wrong idea in the first place.

I have said Leader class Jetfire and Starscream are compromised & fugly solutions, as toy interpretations of complex CGi designs.

Voyager class ROTF Starscream and deluxe class DOTM Starscream are both fantastic toy jet Transformers. Heck, the former even features the sleek cap to hide robot parts (and the hands folded up in the original design, alas budget cuts cut that feature).

People often just bash these movie TF toys, only for disliking the cgi robot mode design, plain and simple. And that's a crooked way to judge a toy on its own merits.

All of which have nothing to do about wishing SS is more streamlined or making Jetfire's crap tolerable.

On a sidenote : The beams on Masterpiece Starscream's hips ; now THAT is what people call 'kibble'. And that's why this prototype version is superior to the final product. Igear's KO's are employing the solution right now btw :

http://powet.tv/powetblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/mp03starscream2.jpg

See what you just wrote there?

That's not the "kibble" being talked about.

That's why you're in your own separate confused little world in this thread.

[eugimon]

HAHAHA... oh man, carry on. This conversation is awesome.

Like calling the sky a pencil and then getting worked up when people try to correct you.

Carry on.

[knoted]

That's why you're in your own separate confused little world in this thread.

No no and no.

You plain refuse to merely take a proper look at the arguments I bring to the table about what makes those mentioned TF toys, still worthwhile - since some people were bashing them.

I just post about these TF's so people might enjoy them when they thought they wouldn't. It seems you just reply me, to try make me feel bad.

But if you want to be RIGHT, so be it and enjoy whatever toys you have. Good day.

@ Mike ; I already stated the electro gizmo's is one major factor which made the final Leader class toys less than great. The VF examples were just there to illustrate and emphasize the

constraints Hasbro has to work with. Very different development cycles. One can't just bash a movie toy with that in mind.

Edited August 18, 2011 by knoted

[anime52k8]

um, I like leader Starscream. I even like that he's a tubby F-22, I just imagine he eats too many Twinkies and Ho-Ho's.

:edit:

oh, and in Defense of leader Jetfires voice box; even if they had removed it completely that still would have been a crap toy. The real problem is that it was designed first and foremost to be a giant Jet-pack for Leader prime instead of a passable stand alone toy.

Edited August 18, 2011 by anime52k8

[kanedaestes]

Soooo question of the day.... are you guys going to get the MakeToy Devestator or the TFClub one??? As we move on past this argument.

[mikeszekely]

You plain refuse to merely take a proper look at the arguments I bring to the table about what makes those mentioned TF toys, still worthwhile - since some people were bashing them.

What proper argument have you made? Your argument seems to boil down to "Voyager and Deluxe Starscream are good!" Which is fine if you like those toys, but NO ONE ELSE is talking abut them. The toys being "bashed," as you put it, are LEADER Starscream and LEADER Jetfire, and you've conceded that those toys have issues.

I have said Leader class Jetfire and Starscream are compromised & fugly solutions, as toy interpretations of complex CGi designs.

We say Leader Starscream sucks, and you're argument is that Voyager and Deluxe Starscream don't. It's irrelevant. We're not talking about Voyager or Deluxe Starscream, we're not talking about Starscream's movie design, or characters named Starscream in general. Voyager and/or Deluxe Starscream could be the best Transformers ever made, but it doesn't ameliorate the issues we have with Leader Starscream.

[treatment]

:sigh:

i'll just say...

[eugimon]

hahaha, TF's have more constraints than valkyries? HAHAHA... oh god, this thread gets better and better.

[anime52k8]

Soooo question of the day.... are you guys going to get the MakeToy Devestator or the TFClub one??? As we move on past this argument.

I think the TFC toys one is looking pretty impressive, but have neither the money nor the space for a $600 toddler sized devastator.

I am keeping my eye on the Maketoy Devastator since that one's going to be 6 scout sized toys instead of 6 voyager size figures. The size and likely price seems a lot better there, but I really want to wait and see what kind of quality Maketoy has as a company seeing as they've never released a figure before.

[Archer]

Soooo question of the day.... are you guys going to get the MakeToy Devestator or the TFClub one??? As we move on past this argument.

I too do not have the need for something that big. Its just.....unnecessary for me anyways. Don't like devestator's design at all. I really wish someone would move past devestator on to cooler designs (imho) like defensor or something lol.

But as of now, I am done with buying transformers, at least this year. I probably will get a takara sidearm sideswipe, because HE IS AWESOME, but I am waiting for the newer releases predicted in early 2012 (hopes for HA Mirage) before I get back into the fold.

[jwasko]

Found Hot Rod at TRU on my home from work today (in Monroeville, PA)

It's nearly impossible to get any gun (including the targetmaster) to stay in his hand, but you know what? He didn't have a gun in the movie, either:

"Decepticons!"

Now I need some sort of robot octopus so I can make use of his blade.

My only complaint is a gap in the hood (where it rotates for 'bot mode and opens to reveal the matrix).

"On topic": I'm really tempted to spring for the TFC Devastator, based on the positive reviews the first figure has gotten and the fact that he's big enough to actually tower over deluxes (and, hopefully, be fairly in scale with either G1 dinobots or MP Grimlock)

Edited August 19, 2011 by jwasko

[mikeszekely]

Found Hot Rod at TRU on my home from work today (in Monroeville, PA)

Monroeville, you say? Then it's probably a safe bet that Greensburg has one too, since the Monroeville store is the second-closest to me.

EDIT: After the 20% off coupon, naturally. Just as I predicted.

Edited August 19, 2011 by mikeszekely

[jwasko]

Monroeville, you say? Then it's probably a safe bet that Greensburg has one too, since the Monroeville store is the second-closest to me.

If there aren't any in Greensburg, there were two left after I got mine off the shelf.

[mikeszekely]

If there aren't any in Greensburg, there were two left after I got mine off the shelf.

That might work. I was going to dump some of my books at the Half-Price Books before I move (from Greensburg to North Huntingdon, if you're curious) anyway.

[CoryHolmes]

Found Hot Rod at TRU on my home from work today (in Monroeville, PA)

I hate you just as much as I hate the other Rodi holders in this thread. I went to a Burnaby TRU, which was naturally sold out. But they did have an opened figure that had been returned. I've seen the same videosyou have but I didn't think he was that BIG robot mode. And slender, too. Hard to believe that there's a car in that robot...

[David Hingtgen]

I've made the hood/fender gap better on mine, still tweaking it and seeing what method works best. Note:

Every method I've both tried and read about makes things looser. From the factory, it's "tight" but with a big gap. Reducing the gap makes it floppier in car mode. It'll hold in place on display, but it's not rock-solid like it used to be--but it sure looks better.

Also, a small amount of asymmetry is inherent/due to QC/pin alignment. The tighter the gaps get, the more apparent slight mis-assembly issues become. It's impossible to make it perfect/exactly even on both sides. Unless you're lucky.

[jwasko]

I've made the hood/fender gap better on mine, still tweaking it and seeing what method works best. Note:

Every method I've both tried and read about makes things looser. From the factory, it's "tight" but with a big gap. Reducing the gap makes it floppier in car mode. It'll hold in place on display, but it's not rock-solid like it used to be--but it sure looks better.

Also, a small amount of asymmetry is inherent/due to QC/pin alignment. The tighter the gaps get, the more apparent slight mis-assembly issues become. It's impossible to make it perfect/exactly even on both sides. Unless you're lucky.

Mine seems fairly floppy as-is...it doesn't spin, but I can easily push it up/in and down/out (pushing it up/in closes the gap, but it pops back out afterwards). Here is a (blurry) picture:

Oh, another complaint I forgot to mention: he can't really look up (see the picture in my previous post). On the positive side of things, he can look down quite well.

He also needs black "boots," but I could fix that fairly easily, I guess.

I hate you just as much as I hate the other Rodi holders in this thread. I went to a Burnaby TRU, which was naturally sold out. But they did have an opened figure that had been returned.

Not sure why you didn't buy the opened one (unless you're one of those MISB guys). But you could always just ask someone to pick one up for you. This thread at TFW2005 is meant for those who want to buy a Hot Rod, and those willing to sell at cost.

Edited August 19, 2011 by jwasko

[CoryHolmes]

Not sure why you didn't buy the opened one (unless you're one of those MISB guys). But you could always just ask someone to pick one up for you. This thread at TFW2005 is meant for those who want to buy a Hot Rod, and those willing to sell at cost.

Because I like the thrill of the hunt. The stalking of toys on the open shelves, the slight crinkling of the cardboard as I pick it up, staring at their innards through the trasparent window..