The Transformers thread

[anime52k8]

Japanese TF prices are ridiculous in general, and the Prime figure pricing is particularly egregious. About the only thing that makes it even worth thinking about is that I'd rather give that money to Takara's hands than some a-hole scalper on eBay who wants even more.

I think I'm done buying official Hasbro/Takara products in general; maybe I'll pick up a TFC Hercules instead out of spite.

:edit:

btw, I find that last line in the article about figures possibly showing up at discount stores like some late wave RTS figures have to be particularly disheartening. We've got multiple Koles and Ross stores all over this part of the bay area and I've NEVER seen a single toy from one of these lost waves show up at ANY of them.

Edited January 29, 2012 by anime52k8

[M'Kyuun]

I have to wonder what Hasbro is thinking when they produce a line of toys that represent the CG show well, build anticipation for that line, and then short sell it before canxing it altogether in lieu of toys that are not what we the consumers want.

I echo the sentiment about no 3rd season of Animated...I really liked the show and loved the toys, which again, saw some limited releases towards the end, and a couple that were only Japanese releases..I'm looking at you TFA Blackout.

But no, the Hasbro creedo seems to be suffer releasing our tv show toys only as much as absolutely necessary so we can crank out millions of Bay's movie toys, which continue to mock gravity upon their comfy pegs at all my local retailers, whilst any toy from Generations, Reveal the Shield...basically Classics and non-movie related toys...disappear quicker than cupcakes at a fat farm.

For the record, beyond saying the special effects are well done, there's nothing else I like about Bay's movies, especially the aesthetic. I didn't want to like Prime, since the movie influence is evident; however, I watched the show, and enjoyed it. I've been looking forward to picking up a few toys, Arcee in particular. Looks like it's going to be the usual proverbial hunt for the needle in the haystack. I used to love collecting toys, but it's becoming an exercise in frustration.

[GU-11]

It's sad to see what the TF franchise has devolved into lately. AFAIC, the DOTM line's mechtech travesty was the worst thing that has happened to TF. As bad as the ROTF movie was, the toys from that movie were pretty well engineered and probably the best movieverse line Hasbro has to offer [Leader Class Optimus, nuff said.]

And then Hasbro gets a few emails from overly-protective parents claiming that their toys were too complex for little Jimmy to play with [that's what the instructions sheets are for, people], everything started turning into sh!t. Dwarfed toy sizes, oversimplified transformations, poor paint apps....

My hopes were rekindled somewhat when the first edition TF Prime figures came out, only to be canceled and replaced by "weaponizers" and what have you. The leader class TF Prime Optimus I had been so looking forward to no longer appeals to me nearly as much, not if its arm is made of clear plastic that lights up.

What with the Fall of Cybertron line still a mystery and Generations on indefinite limbo, Figma and Hot Toys are destined to be making a whole lot more money from me.

Edited January 29, 2012 by GU-11

[anime52k8]

It's sad to see what the TF franchise has devolved into lately. AFAIC, the DOTM line's mechtech travesty was the worst thing that has happened to TF. As bad as the ROTF movie was, the toys from that movie were pretty well engineered and probably the best movieverse line Hasbro has to offer [Leader Class Optimus, nuff said.]

Armada was the worst thing to happen to Transformers ever. Never try to dispute that because you'll be wrong.

The DotM toys where perfectly ok toys. All of the one's I've handled have been fun toys with some very interesting, intuitive engineering going on. Frankly, Mechtech has been one of the smartest concepts they've come up with in recent years, take the kid appeal gimmick feature that sells the toy to the target audience (little kids) and make it a self contained accessory that can be used on every toy in the line and in no way impacts the design and engineering of the figure itself. It's a wonderful concept and you know what, Mechtech weapons are fun as hell.

I love movie toys and I don't blame them for anything. What I do hate and blame for this whole situation are asinine retailers with crap acquisition practices and utterly broken distribution systems. I also hate it when a company says f*ck it and gives up on a good product when there's an obvious demand for it and available distribution channels staring them in the face.

[treatment]

well, fwiw, I bought the red IronHide mechtech for $10 during some amzn sale last year.

he's actually not that bad by himself. his mechtech weapon was ridiculous, tho.

as for the cancellation of the FEs, i'm speculating that Hasbro actually did a good job on it that it was Takara that told them to STOP, DESU! so Takara can sell 'em at japanese-pricing.

who knows...

[GU-11]

Armada was the worst thing to happen to Transformers ever. Never try to dispute that because you'll be wrong.

The DotM toys where perfectly ok toys. All of the one's I've handled have been fun toys with some very interesting, intuitive engineering going on. Frankly, Mechtech has been one of the smartest concepts they've come up with in recent years, take the kid appeal gimmick feature that sells the toy to the target audience (little kids) and make it a self contained accessory that can be used on every toy in the line and in no way impacts the design and engineering of the figure itself. It's a wonderful concept and you know what, Mechtech weapons are fun as hell.

I love movie toys and I don't blame them for anything. What I do hate and blame for this whole situation are asinine retailers with crap acquisition practices and utterly broken distribution systems. I also hate it when a company says f*ck it and gives up on a good product when there's an obvious demand for it and available distribution channels staring them in the face.

I don't hate Mechteh per se, but what it indirectly caused. Because they wanted to keep the DOTM prices the same as the ROTF line, some sacrifices were made to the main toy, as in less moving parts and smaller toy size. As I understand it, Hasbro/Takara designers have a predetermined amount of separate, moving parts and amount of plastic they could use to design a TF. Now the plastic and moving parts for the mechtech gadget had to come from somewhere if they weren't willing to add to the allowed amount of plastic and parts, and it came from the main figure.

If they gave us DOTM toys with the same size and complexity of the ROTF/Generations toys, even if it's at a slightly higher price, I wouldn't have a bone to pick with mechtech.

I've never bought Armada figs, so I'm not going to argue on that. Then again, I think you're right on this one, as the pics I've seen of the line were pretty awful.

[anime52k8]

I honestly don't buy the argument that the DotM toys where smaller and had fewer paint apps because of the mechtech weapons. if anything the toys got smaller because materials costs have gone up so much in the last few years. And as for them being lest complex it's because people hated how needlessly complicated and over engineered the RoTF toys where. None of that added complexity really added to possibility or screen accuracy, it was just there for the sake of adding more steps to the transformation.

[Renato]

I have to wonder what Hasbro is thinking when they produce a line of toys that represent the CG show well, build anticipation for that line, and then short sell it before canxing it altogether in lieu of toys that are not what we the consumers want.

I thought Transformers were all about what the kids want? If they want LEDs and translucent parts instead of non-gimmicky nice-looking toys, well, then that's what Hasbro are going to prioritize. Meanwhile, I think kids in Japan just don't care about TFs so the pricing and marketing reflects more of the fans' consumption trends. No?

[GU-11]

I honestly don't buy the argument that the DotM toys where smaller and had fewer paint apps because of the mechtech weapons. if anything the toys got smaller because materials costs have gone up so much in the last few years. And as for them being lest complex it's because people hated how needlessly complicated and over engineered the RoTF toys where. None of that added complexity really added to possibility or screen accuracy, it was just there for the sake of adding more steps to the transformation.

Since Hasbro hasn't officially released any written statements regarding the size and complexity of the DOTM toys, both theories aren't any more or less valid than the other. However, I do recall an interview Hasbro reps did for their DOTM toyline, and their answer to whether the reduced size was due to cost-saving, was candid "no." Of course, whether the rep is telling the truth or not is another story. I think the interview is somewhere in the Seibertron forum; you can try to find the article if you want.

Whatever the case, the DOTM toys were smaller because they wanted to keep prices the same, whether it's due to cost of materials or that they needed to sacrifice plastic from the main fig for the weapon.

Honestly, I don't want to argue about the complexity thing, because it's really a matter of opinion. I like the complexity of the ROTF figs, and the separate parts makes the figs look more accurate and "movie-esque" to me personally, though they're more of a hassle to you. IMO, movieverse designs are super complex, and I feel the extra parts add to the aesthetic of the fig. A lot of people complained about leader class Optimus' complex transformation, but he had to be that complex in order for his toy to look as close as possible to the CG model.

Truth is, no single product is going to please everyone and I'm all too aware of that. I like the ROTF line's complexity, while others complain about it. I don't like the simplification of the DOTM transformations, but other love it. And that's fine.

But enough about DOTM and the movie line.

I'm just looking forward to seeing how the Fall of Cybertron line turns out. Hopefully, now that Hasbro's designers are now at least partially involved in designing the characters, there will be less of an issue when it comes to screen accuracy.

I thought Transformers were all about what the kids want? If they want LEDs and translucent parts instead of non-gimmicky nice-looking toys, well, then that's what Hasbro are going to prioritize. Meanwhile, I think kids in Japan just don't care about TFs so the pricing and marketing reflects more of the fans' consumption trends. No?

That seems to be the case. Takara seems to target the adult collectors more than kids. The Masterpiece line and DMK kits are definitely more for adults than kids. Hasbro, on the other hand, focuses primarily on children. That said, I like that the Hasbro guys still care enough about adult collectors who grew up on TF's to toss us a bone or two in the form of Generations, Classics and RTS.

Edited January 29, 2012 by GU-11

[Tober]

Is it really known where to point the finger with the FE screw-up? My impression from what Hasbro has said in the past is that if a toy is carried by exclusively by a retailer it's because none of the others wanted it.

I think you'll find that Japanese Takara prices are comparatively the same as most other non-USA countries. Down here Hasbro's deluxes retail for $25-$30.

[GU-11]

Is it really known where to point the finger with the FE screw-up? My impression from what Hasbro has said in the past is that if a toy is carried by exclusively by a retailer it's because none of the others wanted it.

I think you'll find that Japanese Takara prices are comparatively the same as most other non-USA countries. Down here Hasbro's deluxes retail for $25-$30.

Even in Asian countries, Takara products are generally more expensive than Hasbro ones, even the movie lines that don't boast any extra paint apps or chrome.

Edited January 29, 2012 by GU-11

[Tober]

Even in Asian countries, Takara products are generally more expensive than Hasbro ones, even the movie lines that don't boast any extra paint apps or chrome.

Yes, but I mean within Japan TF toys are comparatively at a similar price point to most other non-US countries (maybe not Canada, not sure).

[GU-11]

Yes, but I mean within Japan TF toys are comparatively at a similar price point to most other non-US countries (maybe not Canada, not sure).

You mean Takara TF toys in Japan are similar in pricing to Hasbro toys in non-US countries?

Edited January 29, 2012 by GU-11

[Tober]

You mean Takara TF toys in Japan are similar in pricing to Hasbro toys in non-US countries?

Domestically, within Japan, Takara's TF lines are similar to what Australia pays for Hasbro's TFs. Similar story for The UK and Europe, when they are lucky enough to get them. As for Asia, about $15 to $20 for a Hasbro deluxe in Hong Kong and SE Asia.

[Negotiator]

Been looking at the FE voyager op vs powerizer (lol) op and it's a completely different mold (more inaccurate), not just recolored plastic. I was going to settle for it and paint it since the cancellation news, but forget it... a total pass and total F' up Hasbro!!

[mikeszekely]

I'm not happy. I didn't really want a lot of the Prime toys, but I wanted the entertainment pack. Now it looks l missed it without ever having a fair shot. They were never in stores around here, TRU doesnt have them online, and neither does Hasbro Toy Shop.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

The whole thing is fubared. So I guess I gotta look for a Canadian supplier since there's apparently a bumper crop of FE Prime toys over there.

[anime52k8]

well, got my email from BBTS... frakk.

Hi - Hasbro has informed us that they have cancelled the 'First Edition' releases of Transformers Prime.

Your preorder for: First Edition Deluxe Series 1.5 Set of 4

will be converted to: Robots in Disguise Deluxe Series 1 Set of 4

This set includes the following figures:

1x Bumblebee

1x Cliffjumper

1x Wheeljack

1x Soundwave

The old preorder price was $59.99 , the new preorder price is $64.99 due to a price increase, but we will honor previous price and fill the order at $59.99

Feel free to cancel or adjust the updated preorder however you would like, we apologize for the inconvenience of the cancelled product.

Thanks

Joel

www.bigbadtoystore.com

Haven’t decided if I'm going to cancel or not. I want the wheeljack and soundwave and I'm a little worried they may be just as hard to find in stores, but I really don't want that cliffjumper and I'm just completely ambivalent to any bumblebee at this point.

[anime52k8]

Oh man, I went to TRU today, and guess what I saw.

The few Prime RID toys they had last week are gone but they got new First edition Toys

Prime first edition Bumblebee ion blaster.

it even has cross sells for the first wave prime toys that we're not getting... it's I've never felt so heavily mocked by a childs toy before.

[slaginpit]

It's sad to see what the TF franchise has devolved into lately. AFAIC, the DOTM line's mechtech travesty was the worst thing that has happened to TF. As bad as the ROTF movie was, the toys from that movie were pretty well engineered and probably the best movieverse line Hasbro has to offer [Leader Class Optimus, nuff said.]

And then Hasbro gets a few emails from overly-protective parents claiming that their toys were too complex for little Jimmy to play with [that's what the instructions sheets are for, people], everything started turning into sh!t. Dwarfed toy sizes, oversimplified transformations, poor paint apps....

My hopes were rekindled somewhat when the first edition TF Prime figures came out, only to be canceled and replaced by "weaponizers" and what have you. The leader class TF Prime Optimus I had been so looking forward to no longer appeals to me nearly as much, not if its arm is made of clear plastic that lights up.

What with the Fall of Cybertron line still a mystery and Generations on indefinite limbo, Figma and Hot Toys are destined to be making a whole lot more money from me.

Dont fret! The third Party manufacturings are picking up the slack. TFC Devastator and Igears jets and upcoming Ironhide. Fans Project, and now a Leader Movie Black Out in the works. Hasbro has lost steam and openned up a whole new set of wonderful possibilities for other manufactures. Even CMs has gotten in the game. Support them and you will see a rich pleathora of Cool toys

The whole thing is fubared. So I guess I gotta look for a Canadian supplier since there's apparently a bumper crop of FE Prime toys over there.

Nope All sold out in the first 3 days. I was lucky to find a cliffjumper and Bulkhead. At this point we now have a bazillion Black Movie HA BBs and Skids. No one wants to order anything because hasblo srews the pooch with their case assortments. If I spot something I will help you out. Whatcha looking for

[GU-11]

Dont fret! The third Party manufacturings are picking up the slack. TFC Devastator and Igears jets and upcoming Ironhide. Fans Project, and now a Leader Movie Black Out in the works. Hasbro has lost steam and openned up a whole new set of wonderful possibilities for other manufactures. Even CMs has gotten in the game. Support them and you will see a rich pleathora of Cool toys

I'm actually eying the Perfect Effect [Not] Arcee. I've always wanted a sniper for my TF collection, and the blue version fits the bill perfectly. I just hope my local hobby store is bringing it in; living in SE Asia, ordering from American stores like Robotkingdom and BBTS is going to bring the cost of shipping through the roof.

[VF5SS]

And then Hasbro gets a few emails from overly-protective parents claiming that their toys were too complex for little Jimmy to play with [that's what the instructions sheets are for, people], everything started turning into sh!t. Dwarfed toy sizes, oversimplified transformations, poor paint apps....

are you from the past

I'm not sure what decade this rant is from

[GU-11]

Nope, just haven't been collecting figs until a few years ago. As a matter of fact, anything before the 2007 movie is before my time. If these were decades old issues, I wouldn;t know anything about it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by GU-11

[VF5SS]

I could see someone saying these things when Micromasters came out in like 1990.

Not so much these days.

[RD Blade]

Don't get me started on Micromasters.

[GU-11]

I guess compared to TF's in the 90's, DOTM figs are a marvel of engineering.

Thing is, the ROTF line was IMO a big leap in toy engineering and intricacy from just a couple of years after the 2007 toyline came out, with leader class Optimus being an example. I remember being really impressed by all the clear plastic they used for the headlights on many of the ROTF vehicle modes of the deluxe figs, as well as realistic silver paint on Sideswipe and Sideways. The 2007 movie line had painted-on headlights on the deluxe figs, and some of the toys weren't nearly as screen-accurate as the ROTF line--just compare the two voyager class Starscreams from both lines. Sure, ROTF Starscream has its issues such as weird arm articulation and his hands sticking out in jet mode, but aesthetically, it is more screen-accurate than the 2007 voyager version.

I had high expectations for DOTM, thinking it would top even the ROTF line, but when I saw that the toys were marginally smaller and there were less paint apps on the toys [ROTF Sideswipe had silver paint apps on his whole alt mode, whereas DOTM Sideswipe is bare gray plastic], I was disappointed.

But all in all, I still found a few I liked in DOTM such as Skyhammer, Topspin, Sideswipe and Bee.

I guess voyager Ironhide had potential, but the exposed weapon ports on his alt mode roof and sides, and his noticeably smaller size from the 2007 mold put me off buying it. Seriously, even deluxe figs like Bumblebee and Sideswipe had covers for those damn ports.

Edited February 1, 2012 by GU-11

[Tober]

I'm actually eying the Perfect Effect [Not] Arcee. I've always wanted a sniper for my TF collection, and the blue version fits the bill perfectly. I just hope my local hobby store is bringing it in; living in SE Asia, ordering from American stores like Robotkingdom and BBTS is going to bring the cost of shipping through the roof.

Yeah, their Arcee looks nice. Expensive tho... I'd actually prefer the black version.

Robotkingdom are Hong Kong based.

[GU-11]

I'm actually torn between the blue version and the black one. The black one is nice, but somehow I just like the blue one better. I dunno, maybe I've gotten used to seeing Arcee as a blue bike after a whole season of TF Prime.

Robot Kingdom is HK based? Never knew that. I'll give them a try if my local hobby store doesn't bring in PE Arcee. Thanks.

Edited February 1, 2012 by GU-11

[slaginpit]

Robot Kingdom is HK based? Never knew that. I'll give them a try if my local hobby store doesn't bring in PE Arcee. Thanks.

Thats correct. I cancelled my pre-order of Madblender from BBTS and ordered it from Robot Kingdom and it was 10 dollars cheaper. It came faster from hong kong where as I my Neck breaker was sent 2 weeks prior to me buying from Hong Kong and I AM IN CANADA!! Jeez.

Current 3rd party plans

Arcee, Ironhide, Leader Blackout, and the Not Devastator by Maketoys.

[anime52k8]

I want that Arcee, but it's $100 and I'm kind of poor right now. maybe I can scrape some cash together by April.

Honestly that Leader-size blackout looks really rickety and awkward. I want it to be good because X-transbots are awesome for giving a massive middle finger to crazy devy but it's not looking all that hot right now.

[slaginpit]

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

I'm waiting for that last limb too, and I'll also be waiting for the inevitable 3rd party (or 4th party?) G1 head.

[mikeszekely]

slaginpit, can you put another Transformer with not-Devastator? Any Prime from Classics/Universe/Generations, Animated, G1, Masterpiece, Cybertron, Titanium, or the Bay films would do.

[slaginpit]

slaginpit, can you put another Transformer with not-Devastator? Any Prime from Classics/Universe/Generations, Animated, G1, Masterpiece, Cybertron, Titanium, or the Bay films would do.

Oh and these are cool but I didnt put them on right

Edited February 2, 2012 by slaginpit

[anime52k8]

I wonder if this thing is actually going to happen. Dublin is only a 15 minute drive away, I'm kind of tempted to drop by if only to see an some iGear blatant copyright infringement in person.