HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

No matter what was said or what people were trying to say, while being filmed and then posted on the Internet no less, it doesn't change the fact that their news is people are getting nothing to very little for 2011. Two weeks are probably not going to change anything for the Comic-Con panel either.

Basically, it's going to be like every other year.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Einherjar

[Darkwater]

While we're most likely enjoying Flashback 2012, a 30 year old classic that still can't be matched by today's HG standards and probably holding a 1/60 VF-4 Lightning by Yamato.

What you don't get is that every delay means QUALITY. Every delay means that they're only working HARDER on the product. That's why Shadow Chronicles, delayed by three years, was an EPIC MASTERPIECE with unparalleled hybrid 2d/3d animation. I didn't see any 3d animation in Flashback. That's because they didn't have "computers" back then with a top Korean in-between animation studio behind the helm.

And Shadow Chronicles had an EPIC story that packed so much punch that it was worth not getting an entire series because it was just so MIND BLOWING. Shadow Rising has been in development for FIVE YEARS!!!! With at least another two years before it gets released, that's SEVEN YEARS worth of epic-ness that will likely KILL people who watch it while and fry your DVD players where they stand. I just hope your XBox is still under warranty and your health insurance is up to date. And then I'll have my new SHADOW MASTERPIECE that everyone will think is a repaint of an old masterpiece... until I point out that it has a NEW GUN CANNON on the top!

[azrael]

What you don't get is that every delay means QUALITY. Every delay means that they're only working HARDER on the product. That's why Shadow Chronicles, delayed by three years, was an EPIC MASTERPIECE ...

Pardon my lack of coffee (or alcohol, or sleep, or even Yoshinol; I haven't had much of any today) but are we bleeding sarcasm here by the bucket load?

[Keith]

Dude, you are so making me want to watch Shadow Chronicles again, STOP IT!

[mrhillz]

Dude, you are so making me want to watch Shadow Chronicles again, STOP IT!

You might not want to, I watched it a second time a month or two ago, it's not that much better on a second viewing.

[Keith]

You might not want to, I watched it a second time a month or two ago, it's not that much better on a second viewing.

Oh I've already seen it like 3 times already, and you know what? It gets more hilarious each time. Mind you after the first time, I usually end up falling asleep, but regardless, more hiariou seach time. I keep it right next to my codename robotech & robotech II: the sentinels DVD;'s. I usually break them out once every couple of years to remind me of how awesome robotech is. I'm so amped up to see the new robotech 2015 project, you don't even want to know. If there was a Bluray set of Astro Plan.

Protocola? That little skull on her suit? HI-LARIOUS!

Nah, but seriously, I am almost tempted to watch them again, it's been a while

[EXO]

What you don't get is that every delay means QUALITY. Every delay means that they're only working HARDER on the product. That's why Shadow Chronicles, delayed by three years, was an EPIC MASTERPIECE with unparalleled hybrid 2d/3d animation. I didn't see any 3d animation in Flashback. That's because they didn't have "computers" back then with a top Korean in-between animation studio behind the helm.

And Shadow Chronicles had an EPIC story that packed so much punch that it was worth not getting an entire series because it was just so MIND BLOWING. Shadow Rising has been in development for FIVE YEARS!!!! With at least another two years before it gets released, that's SEVEN YEARS worth of epic-ness that will likely KILL people who watch it while and fry your DVD players where they stand. I just hope your XBox is still under warranty and your health insurance is up to date. And then I'll have my new SHADOW MASTERPIECE that everyone will think is a repaint of an old masterpiece... until I point out that it has a NEW GUN CANNON on the top!

Had to read it a couple of times. Now I get it... You might want to use some emoticons to show sarcasm or else you just read like a memobot with madcow disease.

[Darkwater]

Pardon my lack of coffee (or alcohol, or sleep, or even Yoshinol; I haven't had much of any today) but are we bleeding sarcasm here by the bucket load?

By using their own logic, by the truckload

Back in the development of Shadow Chronicles, it was announced as a series in 2004. Then, it was a movie in 2005. The reason? QUALITY. They were going to pack an entire series worth of quality animation and storytelling into one movie. Then it got delayed to 2006. The reason? To make it a better movie, of course! THEN it got delayed until 2007, the reason being that no distributor could recognize its quality (ie, Harmony Gold wanted more money than what they were being offered).

On my old blog, I did calculation of the fans expectations of Shadow Chronicles. The movie about 1/3 of the length of what you'd get from a 13 episode series, thus you're expecting it be 3 times better. Multiply that by twice as long as it took to come out as promised, and that's a movie SIX TIMES better than the series that was expected.

And, it's happening all over again. Tommy says the "new animated project" is going to be out in 2011 (in July), then fans were told "oh, we meant the animation is going to be finished by 2011," buying them another six months, THEN, we're told early 2012, buying them at least until March (depending on your definition of early), buying another three months. The reason? QUALITY. I'm serious. They said it was so that they could "make it better" Of course, you're going to want to wait for a big announcement at Comic-Con / Anime Expo, so it'll be held back another few months.

They do this song and dance, 90% of the customers end up being someone who watched Robotech as a kid, saw it at Best Buy, and have never been on Robotech.com or at attended a con panel. Then they tout how big the franchise is (while pointing out only three people work on it at HG). If it's so big, then why aren't they pumping out series after series after series? The official RT.com explanation is that they need a network to pick it up, which you don't. Clone Wars was all self-produced, then sold to a network, as was Wolverine and the X-Men (coincidentally produced by Jason Netter, who produced RSC). For a franchise SO big, of such high QUALITY, it really makes you wonder...

[Keith]

Actually, I think the Shadow Chronicles started in production in 2001, and was originally touted as being a series.

[Darkwater]

Actually, I think the Shadow Chronicles started in production in 2001, and was originally touted as being a series.

July 17th, 2002

For the first time in public, it was announced at the panel that there is a new Robotech series in the works for 2004. The new series has been in preproduction for several months and Harmony Gold is in negotiations with a major network to get the new Robotech series on the air. The new Robotech series will be a true sequel to Robotech, picking up where the series left off. Tatsunoko will be animating the new Robotech series, with animation quality aimed at OVA (miniseries) levels.

[Keith]

Yeah, back then HG had a funny idea about the meaning of words such as "Tatsunoko, OVA, & of course Quality."

[ps99042]

so who was the major network HG was in negotiations with?

[EXO]

BSB - bullshit broadcasting

[Keith]

Public Access?

[chrisk]

And, it's happening all over again. Tommy says the "new animated project" is going to be out in 2011 (in July), then fans were told "oh, we meant the animation is going to be finished by 2011," buying them another six months, THEN, we're told early 2012, buying them at least until March (depending on your definition of early), buying another three months. The reason? QUALITY. I'm serious. They said it was so that they could "make it better" Of course, you're going to want to wait for a big announcement at Comic-Con / Anime Expo, so it'll be held back another few months.

What I want to know is - Did everyone clap in the end?

[Darkwater]

so who was the major network HG was in negotiations with?

From what I've heard (and I could be wrong on this one), they were never in the "negotiations" stage, possibly just at the "pitch" stage.

[Shaorin]

perhaps i'm just not right at all in the head today,

but these days i think i'd sooner be compelled to vouch for MACROSS by way of Lucky*Star (SHUDDER!!)

then suffer any more of the raw sewage HG continuously attempts force-feed MACROSS fans outside Japan.

seriously guys, let that outdated, broken-assed U.S. Anime marketing model of the 1980's REST IN PEACE ALREADY, for crissakes!! it's 2011, for Effin' out loud!!

(somebody wanna be a pal here, and take the DeLorean back to, i dunno, say about 1995 perhaps, and go BLOW HG's CORP. HQ CLEAN OFF THE MAP?!? - pretty please? -)

Edited July 6, 2011 by Shaorin

[azrael]

seriously guys, let that outdated, broken-assed U.S. Anime marketing model of the 1980's REST IN PEACE ALREADY, for crissakes!! it's 2011, for Effin' out loud!!

That's what we keep tellin' the Memobots but they keep coming back for more. Really, there's no more dead horse to beat but the Memobots keep rattling their broken rusty sabers. We've mentioned rebooting or doing something with the franchise that removes Macross out of the series so many times that it's a running gag.

[Darkwater]

If you may recall, I mentioned that Kevin puts his responses on his blogs in a passive-aggressive format. Today, he posted this on his blog;

THE CORNER

"It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or when the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. "

Theodore Roosevelt

Translation: "You're all a bunch of haters and I'm actually working in the medium that you hate on so much. You guys have never worked in this business so your opinion doesn't count, and even if we don't meet our goals, we at least are working in this business and tried"

[EXO]

Mckeever and co. are confusing themselves between the gladiators and the fans that leaned in too far and fell in with the lions.

[Einherjar]

Based on the medium he works for, or implies he works for, the "arena" is actually Asia, the ones really taking the risks are animators and companies within that region, his company takes most of the credit because they either financed the work done for their use or legally claimed the rights of other works for their use, and said works are mostly promoted/pimped outside that region by people who haven't worked on animation a day in their lives. Tommy? Maybe. Kevin? Probably not.

And as a professional in the medium, he and his peers are fair game for criticism, so he/they should really suck it up.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Einherjar

[UN Spacy]

Translation: "You're all a bunch of haters and I'm actually working in the medium that you hate on so much. You guys have never worked in this business so your opinion doesn't count, and even if we don't meet our goals, we at least are working in this business and tried"

[chrisk]

Translation: "You're all a bunch of haters and I'm actually working in the medium that you hate on so much. You guys have never worked in this business so your opinion doesn't count, and even if we don't meet our goals, we at least are working in this business and tried"

I thought McKeever liked courting "controversy" and getting the hatorade on from the so-called "Macross Purists", his "critics" and "people in the know" (the last bit is something he keeps mentioning on his blog). His quote on Roosevelt seems a tad defensive... even for him.

I guess when you lie enough times to the public and people call your BS out on boards like this, you start believing you're a victim. So sad.

[Jasonc]

It's funny. I'd hardly correlate a quote about striving against the odds, taking big risks, and persevering, with a guy who can't tell the truth and acts like a douche while sitting in a corporate building and does virtually nothing. And I do agree, a company paying money for animation and simply taking credit for doing all the work is hardly worthy of being in the same quote. I add a +1 to comedy factor for seeing this quote.

[Darkwater]

I thought McKeever liked courting "controversy" and getting the hatorade on from the so-called "Macross Purists", his "critics" and "people in the know" (the last bit is something he keeps mentioning on his blog). His quote on Roosevelt seems a tad defensive... even for him.

I guess when you lie enough times to the public and people call your BS out on boards like this, you start believing you're a victim. So sad.

I've said before that when he addresses people who "know this business" it's based on mis-quote he made about me years ago and still addresses me that way to this day. He often refers to things that I never said in the first place. He'll never say it outright, everything he says is in a code of metaphors.

The thing I thought funny about that quote is... I am in that same arena more or less (the business side of the entertainment industry). I'll criticize them as a fan for not producing anything, and I'll criticize them as professional for horribly amateurish behavior.

[hulagu]

Mckeever and co. are confusing themselves between the gladiators and the fans that leaned in too far and fell in with the lions.

That's actually pretty apt as far as stretched analogies go.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[taksraven]

Pardon my lack of coffee (or alcohol, or sleep, or even Yoshinol; I haven't had much of any today) but are we bleeding sarcasm here by the bucket load?

We all love Robotech here. We would have it's babies if we could.

[taksraven]

[chrisk]

I've said before that when he addresses people who "know this business" it's based on mis-quote he made about me years ago and still addresses me that way to this day. He often refers to things that I never said in the first place. He'll never say it outright, everything he says is in a code of metaphors.

Well Dark, that's because you don't know the business like he does. Not now. Not even when he thought you corrected him about something in some obscure thread on Robotech.com. He knows more about the declining anime industry in the States, the continuing threat of Macross Purists, the rising gas prices, and "ailing" U.S. economy than anybody else in the industry. Thanks to his amazing communication skills, I now believe that these factors have severely hampered Harmony Gold's efforts to put out a decent product in a timely fashion.

How you like them apples?!

BTW, I saw that video a few pages back where the three stooges were playing the 28th anniversary Robotech soundtrack to an overly-enthusiastic crowd. It felt like that scene in 'Trekkies' when they were focusing on the Klingon camp. Except somehow even less cool if that were even possible

Edited July 7, 2011 by chrisk

[Duke Togo]

I've probably said this before, but I just don't get it. I honestly wonder who would pay attention to these guys if the talk about them stopped here? They produce fanfiction level of work on a limited budget. Their audience is small. I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is.

[Jasonc]

I've probably said this before, but I just don't get it. I honestly wonder who would pay attention to these guys if the talk about them stopped here? They produce fanfiction level of work on a limited budget. Their audience is small. I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is.

The point is to demonstrate and examine their stupidity. At this point, we haven't really had to debate anything, as questions regarding the licensing, rights, and whatnot have all been either clearly explained, or proven. Plus, the fact that we can point out these stupid quotes, actions, attitudes, etc. throws them into a weird panic. It's like blowing on a trail of ants, they're nice and calm, going about their everyday life, until you blow on a section of the line, and they all start scurrying around for their lives.

[Shaorin]

I've probably said this before, but I just don't get it. I honestly wonder who would pay attention to these guys if the talk about them stopped here? They produce fanfiction level of work on a limited budget. Their audience is small. I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is.

indeed. since HG made quadruply certain that the entire extended MACROSS series didn't get it's fair shake back in the "Great U.S. Anime Boom" days,

and today, a decade later, with that once amazing Renaissance Age a distant memory, since the U.S. Anime industry at large has all but stalled itself

straight down into Davy Jones' locker, it is now pretty much a certainty that the MACROSS series will never get a proper U.S. Videodisc release.

face it people, it's coming all back to the early days of U.S. Anime fandom, except that we now stream material off the net

rather than purchasing fansubbed Nth-Gen VHS and BETAMAX dupes at our respective local conventions.

it's a very different world out there now, and some of us, like myself, seem to have a spectacularly difficult time adjusting away

from the outmoded, traditional mentality regarding physical Audio/Video entertainment media.

The Future, as the old tired line goes, Is most certainly Now. now where's Doc Brown's DeLorean when one really needs it?

[HappyPenguins]

I've probably said this before, but I just don't get it. I honestly wonder who would pay attention to these guys if the talk about them stopped here? They produce fanfiction level of work on a limited budget. Their audience is small. I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is.

Some people talk about them because they are frustrated with the way things are. It is their company that has prevented the macross series from being..... I can't think of the word but still robotech is to blame for that. And also fans are disapointed because there is no new robotech and HG keeps telling them that there will be. Both sides have a reason to be angry with them because they are blocking but also not producing. And no matter what is made it will be criticized? by both sides. but also fans come to this thread to complain because they really can't do it any where else with out being baited or banned.

hope that makes sense. I can't think like I used to =\

Edited July 7, 2011 by HappyPenguins

[chrisk]

I've probably said this before, but I just don't get it. I honestly wonder who would pay attention to these guys if the talk about them stopped here? They produce fanfiction level of work on a limited budget. Their audience is small. I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is.

The point, dear Togo, is to meet familiar faces in a safe environment and have a laugh at Harmony Gold's expense. THAT'S IT. The license debate is over. "Only here for crap and giggles. This case ended back in 2005".

Maybe somebody should make that disclaimer bigger before entering this thread??

[Keith]

Wait a minute, I thought we were all here to antagonize Doug Bendo into making those hilarious youtube video's. I'm so confused!