HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

My wife just happened to check the rt.com site, and saw that they are trying to get rt fans to sit at the theater and watch the documentary. I doubt this, but, is anyone going? It's on a monday, and there's football, so that's a no go for me.

Even if they have their own theater, they better not let it get to their heads. I'm guessing it's not a documentary about making anime. It's a documentary about editing anime into a legitimate franchise and its ties to an industry that's moved past it with far more credibility.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Sorry, but that is categorically untrue. It is never established ANYWHERE in the series that the SDF-02 was near the SDF-01 let alone behind it. During the entirety of The Masters War, the spot is ONLY referred to as The Ruins of the SDF-01/SX.83. Bowie specifically states in Triumvirate that it was the spot where the Earth's first battlefortress was destroyed. What you are talking about is the comics and the novels, not the Tv series.

Then I stand corrected. I had assumed that the pic I saw of the comics was reflecting something that happened in the series but I guess not.

...wait a minute. I thought there were these three mound things in the series and they were supposed to be the remains of the SDF-1, 2 and Khyron's ship?

Edited October 7, 2011 by VF-15 Banshee

[VF5SS]

Sorry Brookie baby, even Robotech.com's little episode summary disagrees with you.

[Dynaman]

Sorry, but that is categorically untrue. It is never established ANYWHERE in the series that the SDF-02 was near the SDF-01 let alone behind it.

Unless Lisa and the rest of the bridge crew are REALLY REALLY fast, they would have a hard time running from the SDF-2 bridge to the SDF-1 bridge...

You also have to totally ignore Rick constantly calling for Lisa (mentioning SDF-02 each time) after Khyron fires the first shot on the SFD-02 in episode 36. Although it is NOT seen the SDF-01 and 02 are both in the lake according to the dialog.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Dynaman

[azrael]

...wait a minute. I thought there were these three mound things in the series and they were supposed to be the remains of the SDF-1, 2 and Khyron's ship?

Really...you should watch Robotech. Then you would really have no idea what you're talking about.

[Darkwater]

The SDF-2 one of the few things that really bugs me about the Robotech adaption of Macross. It was quickly used to explain why there'd be these three mounds in the Masters saga, but it felt rushed. Then again, when they were producing Robotech they were doing it cheaply, quickly, and probably didn't think anyone would give a crap and still be talking about it 26 years later.

The series was already like 3 years old by the time Comico finished up their adaptation, so they just threw it in there:

Edit: Don't know why its only saying "posted image," here's a link

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2i4Xikk3LbE/RlAWSCRBc9I/AAAAAAAAASc/hm-oq3mfO8E/s1600-h/tms_36f.jpg

Edited October 8, 2011 by Darkwater

[Gubaba]

Sorry, but that is categorically untrue. It is never established ANYWHERE in the series that the SDF-02 was near the SDF-01 let alone behind it. During the entirety of The Masters War, the spot is ONLY referred to as The Ruins of the SDF-01/SX.83. Bowie specifically states in Triumvirate that it was the spot where the Earth's first battlefortress was destroyed. What you are talking about is the comics and the novels, not the Tv series.

Didn't Carl Macek always maintain that the SDF-1 and -2 were back-to-back...? He did when I saw him back in the '80s.

[VF5SS]

Is someone questioning the will of Saint Carl of the tweed jacket?

[Einherjar]

Really...you should watch Robotech. Then you would really have no idea what you're talking about.

Exactly, people here treat it like crap, but actually watching, researching and knowing stuff about it really helps you understand why people treat it like crap these days beyond fans being purist about the whole thing. That's what I got from taking the time to learn about it, at least. For example, at first I knew it was a sham, then after learning about crap like the SDF-2 "debates," the treatment of novels, why they would hire someone like Tommy Yune, etc., I understood why it's a sham in a legitimate way.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Hey I never said Robotech was crap, I just don't want to watch it. I AM curious as to what people say about it and so far it's been... enlightening.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Then watch Rt. Your mind will be blown when you finish it. Too much and you lose your sanity.

[Keith]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2i4Xikk3LbE/RlAWSCRBc9I/AAAAAAAAASc/hm-oq3mfO8E/s1600-h/tms_36f.jpg

Now it makes total sense, we couldn't see the SDF-2 because the SDF-1 was sodomizing it!

[azrael]

Hey I never said Robotech was crap, I just don't want to watch it. I AM curious as to what people say about it and so far it's been... enlightening.

...

...

Trust us. Reading what we say is NOTHING compared to actually watching it. Listening to a podcast is NOTHING compared to actually watching it. Until you watch it and understand why we give it such a hard time, then you would be regurgitating what we or anyone else who have actually suffered through it has said. It's free to watch on Youtube or Hulu.

[UN Spacy]

Now it makes total sense, we couldn't see the SDF-2 because the SDF-1 was sodomizing it!

Sodomize? That's clearly arse to arse.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Very well but I'm skipping the Macross episodes.

[taksraven]

Very well but I'm skipping the Macross episodes.

If you don't watch it ALL you are never going to qualify for the special Robotech badge of honor that the rest of us here wear with PRIDE!!!!!!

[VF5SS]

You should really watch Southern Cross and Mospeada in their original form before diving into the shitfest. So you can see how the fooked everything up.

[Dynaman]

If you don't watch it ALL you are never going to qualify for the special Robotech badge of honor that the rest of us here wear with PRIDE!!!!!!

I'm pretty certain I have not seen all of the Southern Cross episodes, do I really have to give up my badge?

[Darkwater]

Didn't Carl Macek always maintain that the SDF-1 and -2 were back-to-back...? He did when I saw him back in the '80s.

I'm guessing the thought process went like this:

1984: "We need another monument in Macross to tie into Southern Cross's mounds! Let's make the SDF-2 through the dialog"

1985: "Well, it aired, and no one seemed to notice"

1986: "Crap, people are asking, give them an answer"

1987: "Okay, some guys are writing novels, they'll have an answer"

1988: "Wow, people are still asking about this?"

1989: "Wow, people are still asking about this? Well, they drew it in the comics..."

2000: "Wow, people are still asking about this?"

2010: "Wow, people are still asking about this?"

[taksraven]

I'm pretty certain I have not seen all of the Southern Cross episodes, do I really have to give up my badge?

Yes, you do have to give up your badge. There is a special pain that must be endured when watching the Southern Cross episode of RT. If you haven't watched it, you can't understand...

[azrael]

If you don't watch it ALL you are never going to qualify for the special Robotech badge of honor that the rest of us here wear with PRIDE!!!!!!

And really, you can't say your a purist when you haven't tried the bastardization. And the Macross portion of RT is what binds and drives the rest of the series. Without Lick Hunter, SDF-1, and all the crap changes that went into Macross, we won't have objects of ridicule to dangle in front of the lunatic fringe of RT fandom.

[BeyondTheGrave]

And really, you can't say your a purist when you haven't tried the bastardization. And the Macross portion of RT is what binds and drives the rest of the series. Without Lick Hunter, SDF-1, and all the crap changes that went into Macross, we won't have objects of ridicule to dangle in front of the lunatic fringe of RT fandom.

Who's Lick hunter?

[1st Border Red Devil]

...wait a minute. I thought there were these three mound things in the series and they were supposed to be the remains of the SDF-1, 2 and Khyron's ship?

The neither the SDF-02 nor Khyron's ship are supposed to be the 3 Mounds. They are only ever referred to as The Ruins of the SDF-01/SX.83 in the Tv series. Reference Half Moon, Triumvirate and Catastrophe. Furthermore, the scale issue comes in and the 3 mounds are (on average) shown to be about 40 - 50m in height. I sure as hell know the difference in scales because I used to live near Stone Mountain, Georgia which has a height of 513m at its summit and you can clearly see it from miles away (6 or more). The three mounds have to be the Reflex Furnaces from inside the SDF-01 (reference To the Stars).

You also have to totally ignore Rick constantly calling for Lisa (mentioning SDF-02 each time) after Khyron fires the first shot on the SFD-02 in episode 36. Although it is NOT seen the SDF-01 and 02 are both in the lake according to the dialog.

Rick tries hailing the SDF-02. He later tries getting a hold of Lisa Hayes. Thing is that Lisa stated, just after the attack started, that she has to get back to the SDF-01, which is where her duty station was located. Khyron clearly states he is targeting the SDF-01 (I think Grell even mentions it by name as being in range for the cannon). The dialogue does not put the SDF-02 in the lake. If we have to go with the idea that the SDF-02 sunk (based on the unnamed pilot dialogue) its possible, however, unlikely, that it was nearby in the Industrial Sector (where in a previous episode they were delivering Reflex Furnace parts) and is in a subsurface berth like they have in The Masters War. Assuming the SDF-02 has ventral thrusters, they would likely have flooded the berth to facilitate lift-off. Since there were missile barrages being fired indiscriminately, its likely the SDF-02 was struck in multiple places along its hull and sunk.

[Gubaba]

Rick tries hailing the SDF-02. He later tries getting a hold of Lisa Hayes. Thing is that Lisa stated, just after the attack started, that she has to get back to the SDF-01, which is where her duty station was located. Khyron clearly states he is targeting the SDF-01 (I think Grell even mentions it by name as being in range for the cannon). The dialogue does not put the SDF-02 in the lake. If we have to go with the idea that the SDF-02 sunk (based on the unnamed pilot dialogue) its possible, however, unlikely, that it was nearby in the Industrial Sector (where in a previous episode they were delivering Reflex Furnace parts) and is in a subsurface berth like they have in The Masters War. Assuming the SDF-02 has ventral thrusters, they would likely have flooded the berth to facilitate lift-off. Since there were missile barrages being fired indiscriminately, its likely the SDF-02 was struck in multiple places along its hull and sunk.

I still can't believe how much time and energy has gone into creating rationalizations for what is clearly a mistake...

[Seto Kaiba]

You should really watch Southern Cross and Mospeada in their original form before diving into the shitfest. So you can see how the fooked everything up.

QFT.

The neither the SDF-02 nor Khyron's ship are supposed to be the 3 Mounds. They are only ever referred to as The Ruins of the SDF-01/SX.83 in the Tv series. Reference Half Moon, Triumvirate and Catastrophe.

Yeah, but one should never underestimate the Robotech fan base's propensity for making up their own bullsh*t answers and then treating them as unimpeachable fact. Robotech fans have invested so much time and energy into inventing their own answers so they can spackle over the show's many plot holes and continuity errors that most of them don't know what the truth is anymore. It's not surprising that the 3-mounds 3-ships theory is still doing the rounds, since somewhere along the way it ended up attributed to Carl Macek. It seems to have received an implicit acknowledgement from the current mook-in-charge tho.

Furthermore, the scale issue comes in and the 3 mounds are (on average) shown to be about 40 - 50m in height. [...] The three mounds have to be the Reflex Furnaces from inside the SDF-01 (reference To the Stars).

Great Scott! Usually when I say something trenchant about Robotech fans, they don't go and hand me a perfect example of what I was talking about right away. In a rare turn of events - well, rare for Robotech anyway - this theory is actually 100% provably false without having to rely on anything like "Word of God" from the cack-handed twits in charge. The canon reboot comics show those mounds under construction, circa 2015, showing that they contain massive chunks of wreckage:

Edited October 9, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[VF5SS]

so uh I'm actually at that point in legit Southern Cross

so how did these obviously techy mounds go from that to generic rocky ruins with a bunch of flowers inside them

actually why do I ask since I know the answer is always some off screen bullshit

[Seto Kaiba]

so uh I'm actually at that point in legit Southern Cross

so how did these obviously techy mounds go from that to generic rocky ruins with a bunch of flowers inside them

IIRC, in legit Southern Cross the three mounds were always that way... they were there to protect and conceal the secret stash of the protozor plants that the Zor Lords left there ages ago.

[Dynaman]

Rick tries hailing the SDF-02. He later tries getting a hold of Lisa Hayes. Thing is that Lisa stated, just after the attack started, that she has to get back to the SDF-01, which is where her duty station was located. Khyron clearly states he is targeting the SDF-01 (I think Grell even mentions it by name as being in range for the cannon). The dialogue does not put the SDF-02 in the lake. If we have to go with the idea that the SDF-02 sunk (based on the unnamed pilot dialogue) its possible, however, unlikely, that it was nearby in the Industrial Sector (where in a previous episode they were delivering Reflex Furnace parts) and is in a subsurface berth like they have in The Masters War. Assuming the SDF-02 has ventral thrusters, they would likely have flooded the berth to facilitate lift-off. Since there were missile barrages being fired indiscriminately, its likely the SDF-02 was struck in multiple places along its hull and sunk.

Well, if you want to totally disregard the dialog then be my guest. Unlike the folks on the RT website I'm NOT going to argue this any further.

[VF5SS]

IIRC, in legit Southern Cross the three mounds were always that way... they were there to protect and conceal the secret stash of the protozor plants that the Zor Lords left there ages ago.

no i meant in regards to the pic you posted

i know how it works in Southern Cross this is like my second or third time through it :3

[Seto Kaiba]

no i meant in regards to the pic you posted

i know how it works in Southern Cross this is like my second or third time through it :3

Oh, my bad.

Hell if I know...

[Jasonc]

so uh I'm actually at that point in legit Southern Cross

so how did these obviously techy mounds go from that to generic rocky ruins with a bunch of flowers inside them

actually why do I ask since I know the answer is always some off screen bullshit

That's kinda how just about every quirk and plot hole is explained away. I get a good kick out of seeing some of the lunatic fringe and others, argue about what the best answer for crap like that is. How about the saying "The simplest answer is often the right answer". In this case, it's dialogue error that doesn't fit the animation. As for the mounds, I guess the lame explanation is the place got abandoned after it got built, and somehow a process that takes hundreds, if not thousands of years got done in maybe a decade? I gotta say, even as a kid, watching this in 85, and hearing that, never made sense to me, but somehow, it makes sense to a bunch of people as adults. Oh well.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Great Scott! Usually when I say something trenchant about Robotech fans, they don't go and hand me a perfect example of what I was talking about right away. In a rare turn of events - well, rare for Robotech anyway - this theory is actually 100% provably false without having to rely on anything like "Word of God" from the cack-handed twits in charge. The canon reboot comics show those mounds under construction, circa 2015, showing that they contain massive chunks of wreckage:

Weren't they constructed to contain the radiation.

if so why is there a city right next to it.

[Seto Kaiba]

Weren't they constructed to contain the radiation.

if so why is there a city right next to it.

Huh... I don't remember radiation having anything to do with it, but then I try to avoid thinking about Robotech whenever I can. Just for you, I checked the official Shadow Chronicles art book on this matter (and then bleached my hands), and it says they built the mounds to conceal the protoculture matrix and contain the spores of the flowers of life.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Huh... I don't remember radiation having anything to do with it, but then I try to avoid thinking about Robotech whenever I can. Just for you, I checked the official Shadow Chronicles art book on this matter (and then bleached my hands), and it says they built the mounds to conceal the protoculture matrix and contain the spores of the flowers of life.

Once again why is there a city right next to it?

A military base I can understand. But not a city. Wouldn't the birth rate Jump dramatically?

Now I'm going to have to watch southern cross ...

Edited October 9, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[sketchley]

... if memory serves, the 3 mounds are in the middle of the wilderness, in SC.

So... what happened? Were the structures under construction later moved out of the city? If so, why couldn't they do that right away? Comic version makes even less sense in their attempt to explain...