HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

Is HG calling LLA, "unused footage" or is that from the Fandom Post article's writer? Cuz if it's HG calling it that, then they really deserve nothing but ridicule for this "side-project".

It's true though, they (Harmony Gold) never used it, and you know that anything that happens only in Asia doesn't count.

[areaseven]

[Keith]

"It was you fans, I learned it by watching YOU!" lol.

[Darkwater]

I still have yet to understand why some RT fans are making Carl Macek out to be a saint after his death.

From the RT.com forums, one guy said this after attacking Macek

I'd like to take this time apoligize. No matter how I feel about Carl Macek, the way he did things, or this new project I shouldn't have let my emotions get the better of me and chosen my words better than what I did. My words were chosen in haste and very poor judgement and I hope everyone can forgive me.

to which, a rely was:

Nope. What you did was inexcusable. Not only did you disrespect the dead, but you also attacked the man who not only helped bring us Robotech, but helped spark the massive anime boom of the past 25 years-- a man that some of us consider a hero. So, no, I certainly won't forgive you, and I'm sure that there are those who would say the same.

First of all, none of these fans actually knew Carl. I didn't know him. Was he a great guy? I have no clue. Some of my friends knew him and said he was a nice guy, so I would have taken that into consideration. All I really know about him was that he was a producer. You can debate the merits of work as producer, as many have over the years, but why the deification of him into something more than that is beyond me.

I guess it's common after the creator of something passes away, but people don't realize that these are just people. After Gene Roddenberry died, no one really talked about the fact that he was a pot smoker, stole ideas, and met his second wife while cheating on his first. Still, I enjoy the hell out of Star Trek.

[Shaorin]

Even, I who has remained relatively quiet on rt.com has been tempting the banhammer fate!

Do it, it's hilarious!

Aye, verily. it really builds character...

I guess it's common after the creator of something passes away, but people don't realize that these are just people. After Gene Roddenberry died, no one really talked about the fact that he was a pot smoker, stole ideas, and met his second wife while cheating on his first. Still, I enjoy the hell out of Star Trek.

- EVERYBODY - was a pot smoker in the 60's and 70's.

like doing dope as a kid in school in the 80's, it was THE Cool Thing for the Boomer generation to do, and i'm sure there was no shortage

of those that were a wee bit older, but still young at heart, were imbibing just as vigorously as all the kids were...

Edited October 21, 2011 by Shaorin

[Einherjar]

If Carl's methods were still used by people not in Harmony Gold in bringing anime to the West or still used period, then guilt tripping dissenters could be valid. Now, fortunately, with Love Live Alive revealed it looks like everyone/everything except Robotech has moved on from it for good reasons. Then again, other productions do not have the problem of being run by posers.

Also, as Tim Eldred noted earlier, others were also doing it at the that time too, and better in the long run.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

I still have yet to understand why some RT fans are making Carl Macek out to be a saint after his death.

From the RT.com forums, one guy said this after attacking Macek

to which, a rely was:

First of all, none of these fans actually knew Carl. I didn't know him. Was he a great guy? I have no clue. Some of my friends knew him and said he was a nice guy, so I would have taken that into consideration. All I really know about him was that he was a producer. You can debate the merits of work as producer, as many have over the years, but why the deification of him into something more than that is beyond me.

I guess it's common after the creator of something passes away, but people don't realize that these are just people. After Gene Roddenberry died, no one really talked about the fact that he was a pot smoker, stole ideas, and met his second wife while cheating on his first. Still, I enjoy the hell out of Star Trek.

I wonder if they'll feel as passionate when someone who actually CREATED one of the series involved with Robotech passes on...

[Dynaman]

I wonder if they'll feel as passionate when someone who actually CREATED one of the series involved with Robotech passes on...

First they would have to know who it was in the first place.

[Keith]

What am I up to right now?

-Re-reads news about Love Live Alive being recycled into new robotech project

-Checks out shiny new Sayonara no Tsubasa bluray

-Laughs hysterically at robotech fans

It's good to be a macross fan

[Jasonc]

Well, Carl could've been a nice guy. I met him a couple times, and he seemed OK. He was willing to talk, but it wasn't like I HAD TO TALK ABOUT ROBOTECH with him. I'm just not someone with RT licensed fan goggles that becomes like a whiny, squealie schoolgirl around their staff. And Darkwater, I totally agree. Carl wasn't the originator of the chop job anime to American television, and I'd even question the fact that he made Japanese anime popular in the U.S. It was already coming over, and coming over more frequent in the time before Robotech first aired. A lot of the fanboys won't want to admit that, as that would question their faith and belief in their almighty Carl. Don't kid yourselves. He was a producer, and put something out during the perfect storm, but that's it. To call him a visionary?

I find it funny that Frank only has great things to say about Carl, as does Tommy, when it was HG who fired him because he couldn't produce anything with substance after using the original series. From what I do know, he was kinda the laughing stock with the RT staff, and seeing Tommy role his eyes when Carl would talk definitely confirms that. That would mean that they definitely are using his death as a marketing tool, even to this day. Seems like every which way I turn, HG's Robotech dept. is doing something stupid. I love pointing this stuff out.

[Legioss]

You don't ever see a Robotech fan talking about Robert Barron, the director of Robotech, or any of the writers. Most of them don't like anime either. They think anime is for purists and snobs. Obviously Carl didn't introduce them to it beyond knowledge of it's existence and he did by distributing movies like Akira at Streamline Pictures (with Jerry Beck), not Robotech.

I didn't find out anything about anime in Robotech. The "cartoon", that a friend told me was Japanese, advertised a comic. At the comic shop, I bought the comics. In the comics was an ad for Protoculture Addicts. Protoculture Addicts reviewed anime. For about year, all I know about anime was from Protoculture Addicts which is how I found out about Dirty Pair, Urusei Yatsura, Outlanders, Harlock, etc. I'd never even heard Japanese until I saw Outlanders.

[Darkwater]

As a businessman in entertainment myself, I will applaud Carl as a businessman. He knew how to identify a good product from one market and get it to another. Organizing the narrative threads that he did was an impressive feat. But, his innovations as a businessman is where I'd stop my praise. His original story.... um, yeah. Not a fan.

I don't know any of the backstory behind Carl and HG personally, although I do know that when I was invited to the cast and crew screening, Carl sat right behind me. At the end of the movie, he looked really pissed off and left before Tommy did his question and answer portion (which was odd, given that it was a cast and crew screening and like 12 fans).

[Einherjar]

You don't ever see a Robotech fan talking about Robert Barron, the director of Robotech, or any of the writers. Most of them don't like anime either. They think anime is for purists and snobs. Obviously Carl didn't introduce them to it beyond knowledge of it's existence and he did by distributing movies like Akira at Streamline Pictures (with Jerry Beck), not Robotech.

They'll only watch anime/animation touched by one person/company and we're the snobs for wanting diversity? Better to be a purist than someone who only consumes bastardizations, and with Robotech Love Live Alive, it's now painfully obvious bastardizations.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Einherjar

[Beltane70]

Do it, it's hilarious!

Still no ban for me despite asking if HG lacked the desire, talent, or financial ability to create something completely new.

[Smegalot]

These are for the Robotech fan with more money then sense.

I found these at the Toy World in the Brisbane (AU) city store.

Nice prices. I think they have been there for over 6+ months.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Smegalot

[Protoculture]

Huh ... been a loongggggg time since I posted in MW ... or RT.com for that matter.

But hearing about the new RT Project .... hey, if I'm not mistaken, it was me who actually pimping the idea of reusing LLA as part of Robotech new animated project after the long slumber of RTSC ..... at RDF-HQ board, RT.com & MW.

After a snide reply from MEMO ... (or is it Mav ... my memory is failing me .... ), well, I kinda dropped the idea ... which I called Robotech Love Live Alive anyway ....

The FACT that they actually make it into a reality ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ...... damn, that was something!

Well, now we going to have a new Mospeada (ehhh, I mean Robotech LLA) tribute .... I might get my hands on that ....

I mean, this should not come as a surprise anyway ....

[Protoculture]

Although, I'm a tad disappointed with HG .... when I first floated the idea of Mospeada LLA be converted into RT, it is more of a tribute thing, to get all the RT: The New Generation casts (the Mospeada segment) onboard, and get Michael Bradley to re-recorded his TNG songs into Yellow Belmont's concert segments. Which means an RT LLA is simply a redub Mospeada LLA without any alteration at all.

But HG saw it fits to edit Mospeada LLA with new footages, kinda like, RT version of Macross Flashback 2012.

Eh .... waitaminute ... did I just hit something there? I mean, RT's version of Flashback 2012 .... did HG just somehow copied & paste the idea from a Macross production?

Goshhh, never thought it that way ....

[Protoculture]

Are any of you buying that A&E travesty?

Be honest.

Not me. I'll just wait until someone uploads it on YouTube, which is inevitable.

Yeah, I'll be leeaching those vids off Youtube ..... since I already bought the original RT DVDs back in 2004, and had the Remastered edition (dirt cheap, the China's RT Remastered Edition) plus RTSC.

[Jasonc]

I don' think that's the goal of the new project. Seems like they are simply using LLA to probably save on cost of animation. Although splicing old and new animation together just sounds like a stupid idea now. No, it doesn't sound, it is the stupidest idea I've heard of in a long time. As of now, they haven't mentioned anything about using new music, and from what has been said on rtx website, it appears HG spokeperson, Memo, is already saying that having "new music" isn't important, as they supposedly already have a library of old music to go with the old animation and old, outdated way of chopping animation together.

As for the theory that LLA was going to be the project, I do remember hearing some fans wish and hope for something like that to happen. I thought it kinda strange that some fans would have such a lack of creativity, and such moronic notions, I thought HG would never go there. Then when Tommy pretty much gave it away, and we found out what was going on, it started making its rounds over a year ago.

Oh, and you probably don't need to write a different post almost every 10 minutes. You may want to compose all your thoughts on one post. Just a suggestion.

[mecha2241]

As for the theory that LLA was going to be the project, I do remember hearing some fans wish and hope for something like that to happen. I thought it kinda strange that some fans would have such a lack of creativity, and such moronic notions, I thought HG would never go there.

You used to be a Mod there, you do to know how moronic the fans are on that site, lol.

[Protoculture]

Thanks, Jason ... well, on my part, suggesting Mospeada LLA as a new RT project is something I floated back around 4 years ago ... right after RTSC ended its run.

For me, it was more of a way of getting more of an official release of Mospeada LLA as it was (& still is) damned hard to get my hand on said original animation (being a Mospeada nutcase that I am). Only HG & Tatsunoko has access to it ... while waiting for RTSR, HG should atleast throw a bone to us RT:TNG / Mospeada fans.

Its kind of ironic now, HG choose the 'Robotech: Love Live Alive' tagline for the new project, something that I actually posted on RT.com a couple years back .... couldn't TPTB be atleast a little bit original?

Oh Jason, thanks for the advice.

As for the new RT project, I'll think I wait until I could leech it off from Youtube. I'd rather wait for official release of Macross Frontier 2 the Movie & burn my money on that. That & actually saving some money for trip to Singapore to catch Mayn concert next November.

I thought HG would never go there.

Apparently, they did .... its just that combined footages of Mospeada LLA & that of the new animation .... my best bet, it'll look something like Flashback 2012, or the Gundam Zeta: The New Translation trilogy.

Which is not really a good idea. Flashback 2012 & Mospeada LLA actually works, as these OAVs are tributes to both Macross & Mospeada fans, & retold as a collection of AMVs from songs of the said series. These OAVs are a nice gestures from the series creators to its loyal fans & a proper conclusion / send off for the original series.

As for RT:LLA, it doesn't seem to be even a tribute nor a closure of that series, just another attempt of cashing in more dollars from fans.

[Jasonc]

You used to be a Mod there, you do to know how moronic the fans are on that site, lol.

Hmmm, yeah, it was kinda strange at times, having to be very tactful to some people, when all you really want to do is rip them a new one for such lame ideas.

Thanks, Jason ... well, on my part, suggesting Mospeada LLA as a new RT project is something I floated back around 4 years ago ... right after RTSC ended its run.

For me, it was more of a way of getting more of an official release of Mospeada LLA as it was (& still is) damned hard to get my hand on said original animation (being a Mospeada nutcase that I am). Only HG & Tatsunoko has access to it ... while waiting for RTSR, HG should atleast throw a bone to us RT:TNG / Mospeada fans.

Its kind of ironic now, HG choose the 'Robotech: Love Live Alive' tagline for the new project, something that I actually posted on RT.com a couple years back .... couldn't TPTB be atleast a little bit original?

Oh Jason, thanks for the advice.

As for the new RT project, I'll think I wait until I could leech it off from Youtube. I'd rather wait for official release of Macross Frontier 2 the Movie & burn my money on that. That & actually saving some money for trip to Singapore to catch Mayn concert next November.

Apparently, they did .... its just that combined footages of Mospeada LLA & that of the new animation .... my best bet, it'll look something like Flashback 2012, or the Gundam Zeta: The New Translation trilogy.

Which is not really a good idea. Flashback 2012 & Mospeada LLA actually works, as these OAVs are tributes to both Macross & Mospeada fans, & retold as a collection of AMVs from songs of the said series. These OAVs are a nice gestures from the series creators to its loyal fans & a proper conclusion / send off for the original series.

As for RT:LLA, it doesn't seem to be even a tribute nor a closure of that series, just another attempt of cashing in more dollars from fans.

When I first heard they were using LLA, as a MOSPEADA fan myself, I was hoping that it was a joke. Fat chance for that. Then I thought, "Maybe they'll at least release the original with whatever they are doing", but I doubt that as well. You can find LLA on bittorrent sites around, and that's how I had to get it on my computer, and then on DVD. There's no subs, but you really don't need them. It's great music.

If you didn't know, it seems like this short film chop job is going to be an animated version of the Robotech: Invasion comic, that takes place with the invasion force that has Lancer crash landing on earth. It seems like it's not going to be anything related to LLA, except for the taking of the animation. You gotta wonder what kinda thought process went through their heads with this? I mean, do you think they know that this was going to drive more fans away? I doubt a small project like this is going to equate to more fans, BUT, those that aren't happy with it, and the banning of people who disagree with it isn't gaining them either. That seems like losing fans.

[renegadeleader1]

I still have yet to understand why some RT fans are making Carl Macek out to be a saint after his death.

From the RT.com forums, one guy said this after attacking Macek

to which, a rely was:

First of all, none of these fans actually knew Carl. I didn't know him. Was he a great guy? I have no clue. Some of my friends knew him and said he was a nice guy, so I would have taken that into consideration. All I really know about him was that he was a producer. You can debate the merits of work as producer, as many have over the years, but why the deification of him into something more than that is beyond me.

I guess it's common after the creator of something passes away, but people don't realize that these are just people. After Gene Roddenberry died, no one really talked about the fact that he was a pot smoker, stole ideas, and met his second wife while cheating on his first. Still, I enjoy the hell out of Star Trek.

Okay first of all it wasn't my intent to "attack" Macek, but to express anger, and disgust at this RT:LLA project and how I think anime hack jobs 1980's style are a bad idea in general. Loosing my cool in repsonse to MEMO's post and insulting Macek personally was where I crossed the line. What ever you may feel it was in bad taste and I shouldn't have gone that far.

That being said little punk newbie butt kissers like IlexGarodan can bite me. He joins RT.com only last year and thinks he has a right to comment on robotech's history and creators? I've been around since the beginning, getting up at 5:30 in the morning to catch an episode of the original run, as a teen catching the first two arcs run on toonami, joining the rt.com back in 2001 and here not too much later, and finally getting a continuation of the series almost 20 something years after it originally aired. I don't want or need his forgiveness. Then again considering where he's from he's probly still butt hurt The Vancouver Canucks lost the stanley cup to the Boston Bruins.

Of all the Macross and Robotech fanbase, I'm about as moderate as you can get. I can accept both franchises equally. I can come to terms with why and how robotech was created back then, but that doesn't mean its a good idea now or the guy behind was a saint that needs to be canonized(though I wouldn't mind firing IlexGarodan from a cannon). I felt Shadow Chronicles opened a door to a new horizon a chance to break free from its questionable legacy, but now I feel like that door got slammed hard on my face with my foot still stuck in the doorway.

Edited October 22, 2011 by renegadeleader1

[taksraven]

Okay first of all it wasn't my intent to "attack" Macek, but to express anger, and disgust at this RT:LLA project and how I think anime hack jobs 1980's style are a bad idea in general. Loosing my cool in repsonse to MEMO's post and insulting Macek personally was where I crossed the line. What ever you may feel it was in bad taste and I shouldn't have gone that far.

That being said little punk newbie butt kissers like IlexGarodan can bite me. He joins RT.com only last year and thinks he has a right to comment on robotech's history and creators? I've been around since the beginning, getting up at 5:30 in the morning to catch an episode of the original run, as a teen catching the first two arcs run on toonami, joining the rt.com back in 2001 and here not too much later, and finally getting a continuation of the series almost 20 something years after it originally aired. I don't want or need his forgiveness. Then again considering where he's from he's probly still butt hurt The Vancouver Canucks lost the stanley cup to the Boston Bruins.

Of all the Macross and Robotech fanbase, I'm about as moderate as you can get. I can accept both franchises equally. I can come to terms with why and how robotech was created back then, but that doesn't mean its a good idea now or the guy behind was a saint that needs to be canonized(though I wouldn't mind firing IlexGarodan from a cannon). I felt Shadow Chronicles opened a door to a new horizon a chance to break free from its questionable legacy, but now I feel like that door got slammed hard on my face with my foot still stuck in the doorway.

Mate, it's time to let Robotech and all the bad baggage that comes with it (HG, MEMO, etc) go. Come over to our side and become a Macross purist. It will do wonders for you.

[Funkenstein]

Ok guys, you remember when the new Mechwarrior trailer came out, HG got their stockings in a tizz and issued C&Ds? What do you think they'll do about Blizzard's new Warhound unit for Starcraft 2?

http://www.gamesradar.com/starcraft-ii-heart-swarm-new-multiplayer-units-and-balance-changes/

[Dynaman]

Personally I think it's kind of ugly.

[azrael]

Ok guys, you remember when the new Mechwarrior trailer came out, HG got their stockings in a tizz and issued C&Ds? What do you think they'll do about Blizzard's new Warhound unit for Starcraft 2?

http://www.gamesradar.com/starcraft-ii-heart-swarm-new-multiplayer-units-and-balance-changes/

Nothing. Doesn't even look like anything they didn't originally draw.

[Baron Munchausen]

Okay first of all it wasn't my intent to "attack" Macek, but to express anger, and disgust at this RT:LLA project and how I think anime hack jobs 1980's style are a bad idea in general. Loosing my cool in repsonse to MEMO's post and insulting Macek personally was where I crossed the line. What ever you may feel it was in bad taste and I shouldn't have gone that far.

That being said little punk newbie butt kissers like IlexGarodan can bite me. He joins RT.com only last year and thinks he has a right to comment on robotech's history and creators? I've been around since the beginning, getting up at 5:30 in the morning to catch an episode of the original run, as a teen catching the first two arcs run on toonami, joining the rt.com back in 2001 and here not too much later, and finally getting a continuation of the series almost 20 something years after it originally aired. I don't want or need his forgiveness. Then again considering where he's from he's probly still butt hurt The Vancouver Canucks lost the stanley cup to the Boston Bruins.

Of all the Macross and Robotech fanbase, I'm about as moderate as you can get. I can accept both franchises equally. I can come to terms with why and how robotech was created back then, but that doesn't mean its a good idea now or the guy behind was a saint that needs to be canonized(though I wouldn't mind firing IlexGarodan from a cannon). I felt Shadow Chronicles opened a door to a new horizon a chance to break free from its questionable legacy, but now I feel like that door got slammed hard on my face with my foot still stuck in the doorway.

YOU HAD IT COMING. YOU ARE A ROBOTECH/ MACROSS/ BATTLETECH/ WARHAMMER40K/ U.P.S. FANBOY!!!!

Edited October 22, 2011 by Baron Munchausen

[EXO]

YOU HAD IT COMING. YOU ARE A ROBOTECH/ MACROSS/ BATTLETECH/ WARHAMMER40K/ U.P.S. FANBOY!!!!

I guess that's the difference between RT.com and here. We don't really have rules that'll get you banned for liking that stuff. You can say that Kawamori sucks and it won't get you banned, unless you make it a mission to try to convince everyone your point of view, then it's just trolling.

[Einherjar]

YOU HAD IT COMING. YOU ARE A ROBOTECH/ MACROSS/ BATTLETECH/ WARHAMMER40K/ U.P.S. FANBOY!!!!

And you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

In response to all this, I bring to you the TRUTH! How anime was really started, how Macross got started. From rt.com:

I want to thank HG for R:LLA! Thank you for bringing Carl's idea for Robotech to fruition. He brought us Robotech and anime in general, and is a true pioneer. Thank you for using animation that LOOKS and FEELS like Robotech, and what better way to do it than to use contemporary material.

Please keep it up. Follow the creator's plans for Robotech and animate it to look like Robotech.

Effin laughable.

[mrhillz]

I guess that's the difference between RT.com and here. We don't really have rules that'll get you banned for liking that stuff. You can say that Kawamori sucks and it won't get you banned, unless you make it a mission to try to convince everyone your point of view, then it's just trolling.

What if he really does suck? There are lots of straws in Japan, so maybe he prefers to use them on his drinks .

[taksraven]

YOU HAD IT COMING. YOU ARE A ROBOTECH/ MACROSS/ BATTLETECH/ WARHAMMER40K/ U.P.S. FANBOY!!!!

*Great* first post dude. What do you do for an encore??

[Jasonc]

*Great* first post dude. What do you do for an encore??

I smell troll.

[anime52k8]

I smell troll.

he seems totally legit to me.