Terminator 5/Terminator: Genisys, opening July 1, 2015

[Kanedas Bike]

Well, I'm down just so I can see the ridiculous school bus mid-air flip. Everything else I've already seen in Terminator, Terminator 2, 3, 4, some other movies and in comics.

And John Connor's scar looks really...bad (as in it was making my face hurt just looking at it).

-b.

[technoblue]

They didn't. It was delayed (T3 also incorporates that into its plot). If one thinks a little deeper about it, if Judgment Day was stopped, how could the events of T1 and up to the end of T2 occur? T2 would have ended like one of the better episodes of Star Trek, with someone pressing a big reset button, and the John Conner as-we-know-him ceasing to exist.

Yes. The difference between a causal loop and a time paradox. The genius of T1 and T2 was also the downfall of the Terminator story: "No fate but what we make." In T1 Kyle Reese is an unreliable narrator. He prompted Sarah Connor so that she would play her part before Judgement Day. However, somehow the lie that Reese believed in T1 and that Sarah believed in T2 became something that the writers believed when penning subsequent films.

The story is a mess now, but I'll still check out the new film.

[Gubaba]

...I'll still check out the new film.

But my question is, why? Is there something in the trailer that makes it look worthwhile? Did you like the last two films in the series (I only ever saw half of T3 and nothing of the last one)?

When you have a film series that seems to have run out of steam after 1991, what makes a new installment appealing?

(I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious...)

[renegadeleader1]

after T1 and T2 the only Terminator film anybody wanted was one featuring the future war. Hollywood couldn't even do that right with the clusterfrak that is Salvation.

[Duke Togo]

after T1 and T2 the only Terminator film anybody wanted was one featuring the future war. Hollywood couldn't even do that right with the clusterfrak that is Salvation.

Yeah, this still baffles me.

[sketchley]

In retrospect, T3 is infinitely better than T4. T4 has one good continuous shot - and its at the very beginning. After that... there's not much worth going on about it.

T3 is kind of a guilty pleasure. It is NO WHERE near the same calibre as its predecessors, but if you approach it as a forgettable comedy-cum-action movie, its amusing. Dare I saw that it falls into the "so bad its good" category? (And I, too, don't like the John Connor character in that movie).

[Duke Togo]

I've only ever seen fan edits of 3 and 4

[technoblue]

But my question is, why? Is there something in the trailer that makes it look worthwhile? Did you like the last two films in the series (I only ever saw half of T3 and nothing of the last one)?

When you have a film series that seems to have run out of steam after 1991, what makes a new installment appealing?

(I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious...)

IMO, the best thing to happen to Terminator since T1 and T2 was the Sarah Connor Chronicles. If Genysis is the dud that everyone is expecting it to be, then I may go see it simply to learn from its faults. As a writer, I like to stay on top of what works and what flops in the mainstream. I admit, this could be a personal quirk all my own.

[Gakken85]

I don't get who this movie is supposed to be for... is anyone really looking forward to it?

Real fans of the franchise.

4 was an abortion and it needs to be wiped clean.

[Gubaba]

Real fans of the franchise.

4 was an abortion and it needs to be wiped clean.

I love the hell of the first two movies. Am I not a "real fan"?

[Gakken85]

Idk, i can't understand the dislike for 3. It's a solid movie and much more true to the first one than the second one was with all the mushy "boy-loves-his-robot".

I also can't understand how somebody who loved 1 and 2 would knock a chance at going back and seeing a proper film that isn't eat up with Bale's ego and a shitty script.

I'm pumped for anything Arnold does honestly.

His last few films have been pretty darn good. No amazing, but certainly entertaining. People just like to knock older movie stars for some reason even though they've given people countless hours of joy and tons of great films... it's like, "oh he's old, he suuuuucks, lets make fun of him!"

It's like getting pissed of that Michael Jordan went back to Basketball even if he wasn't quite as good. It's still a joy to watch him do his thing.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Gakken85

[Gubaba]

I also can't understand how somebody who loved 1 and 2 would knock a chance at going back and seeing a proper film that isn't eat up with Bale's ego and a shitty script.

To me, if it's not written and directed by James Cameron, then it's just Terminator fanfic.

[Gakken85]

To me, if it's not written and directed by James Cameron, then it's just Terminator fanfic.

Even though Cameron ripped the idea for the first film off from Ellison, and Avatar was pretty bad?

I don't get the fan worship of Cameron. He made a few of the best action films ever in the 80's with Aliens and Terminator.... but he's made a lot of overblown crap too.

He's at his best when he's limited and working with other people ideas, and now people just kiss his butt and he goes overboard on CGI.

Cameron isn't the be all and end all of Terminator films, or action films either. He did a great job on 1 and 2, though the story of 2 got a little mushy.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Gakken85

[TangledThorns]

derp.png

derp.

I noticed that too. For T2 the actors received military (firearms, Krav Maga) training from a former Israeli commando so that is why you never saw blinking when the actors shot their weapons.

[Gubaba]

Even though Cameron ripped the idea for the first film off from Ellison, and Avatar was pretty bad?

I don't get the fan worship of Cameron. He made a few of the best action films ever in the 80's with Aliens and Terminator.... but he's made a lot of overblown crap too.

He's at his best when he's limited and working with other people ideas, and now people just kiss his butt and he goes overboard on CGI.

Cameron isn't the be all and end all of Terminator films, or action films either. He did a great job on 1 and 2, though the story of 2 got a little mushy.

I never saw Avatar, and Terminator does a lot of very different things than Ellison's Outer Limits story did.

And yeah, Cameron's done a lot of crap (I LOATHE Titanic), but the two Terminator movies aren't among them. In fact, come to think of it, T1 and 2, Aliens, and Titanicv are the only Cameron movies I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being a fanboy...?

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i just watched the trailer...

they should make arnold a bad guy and just go terminator on everyone and make T5 mindless fun. how many times can you stop judgement day?

[TangledThorns]

What is sad is this is almost a re-hash of the TV series that I loved! That being said... Summer Glau or GTFO!

[Black Valkyrie]

Nah, nothing special. Regarding the TV series, just watched it for Summer Glau.

[JB0]

Ugh, you DON'T have to reference every old line from every other previous movie.

Why not? It's what Terminator 2 did.

Actually, that's the best part of Terminator 2, taking the audience expectations and knocking them on their side.

That first half-hour, when they go out of their way to make it look like they're doing the first movie all over again, building up to that moment where both time travellers catch up to young John in the hallway, Schwarzenegger grabs John, and... takes a bullet from the "good guy" for him? That was sheer genius, and everything after it is downhill.

I would LOVE to be able to watch it again without knowing that Schwarzenegger is the good guy.

The quotes are an extension of that, with Arnold-Terminator stealing Reese's "come with me if you want to live" and saying "I'll be back" as a reassuring statement rather than a threat he's about to make good on.

And in that regard, I think this movie works... except they just spoiled the big twist in the trailer.

If they hadn't included the part with Sarah being a badass and "Yeah, we already killed the robot, deal with it!". Whoops!

What I can't is the idea of stopping Judgement Day, that was the worst part of T2. T1 was a perfect causal loop story and all the sequels have ruined that.

THANK YOU!

I've finally made my peace with T2, but it took a lot of pointless analyzing, obsessing, and ranting on the internet about how awful it was.

My current stance is: Terminator 2 is set in a parallel universe where something LIKE Terminator happened, but it's not a direct sequel to Terminator.

Why couldn't they keep the loop intact?

Because audiences want happy endings.

People were PISSED at the end of Terminator 3. When I saw it, the guy behind me was shouting swears at the screen when the nukes started blowing up.

Even the bitter victory of Terminator 1 doesn't sit particularly well with a mass-market.

Kyle doesn't need to know that Sara was a badass, JohnC could have lied.

Well, she's known as the woman who taught John to be a badass, so it's assumed.

But Conner could've brainwashed Kyle into thinking of Sarah as the ideal perfect woman and make him into an obsessed stalker who would die to protect her over several years. But that would just be creepy(and the plot of T1).

[areaseven]

You're welcome.

[TangledThorns]

Who wants to bet this film will be PG-13?

[anime52k8]

Because audiences want happy endings.

People were PISSED at the end of Terminator 3. When I saw it, the guy behind me was shouting swears at the screen when the nukes started blowing up.

Technically they didn't use the happy ending in T2. They happy ending got cut and replaced by a more open-ended one.

http://youtu.be/-EarXngYYlw

:edit:

BTW, the late 2020's sure have some 90's ass looking fashion.

Edited December 5, 2014 by anime52k8

[anime52k8]

I never saw Avatar, and Terminator does a lot of very different things than Ellison's Outer Limits story did.

And yeah, Cameron's done a lot of crap (I LOATHE Titanic), but the two Terminator movies aren't among them. In fact, come to think of it, T1 and 2, Aliens, and Titanicv are the only Cameron movies I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being a fanboy...?

OT, but you've never seen The Abyss? If not you really should, it's Cameron's best film after Aliens. Also, check out True Lies. It's a much better Arnold film than T2 or T3.

[Mommar]

Why not? It's what Terminator 2 did.

Actually, that's the best part of Terminator 2, taking the audience expectations and knocking them on their side.

That first half-hour, when they go out of their way to make it look like they're doing the first movie all over again, building up to that moment where both time travellers catch up to young John in the hallway, Schwarzenegger grabs John, and... takes a bullet from the "good guy" for him? That was sheer genius, and everything after it is downhill.

I would LOVE to be able to watch it again without knowing that Schwarzenegger is the good guy.

Yeah, well, this isn't '91 and we're not talking about Terminator 2. Flipping it on it's head was a good idea then. But this is Terminator 5... come up with something new.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Mommar

[sketchley]

My current stance is: Terminator 2 is set in a parallel universe where something LIKE Terminator happened, but it's not a direct sequel to Terminator.

This franchise is one of the rare ones where we can do that, and get away with it without stretching the movie series' internal logic.

Technically they didn't use the happy ending in T2. They happy ending got cut and replaced by a more open-ended one.

Ah, I was wondering if it was available when I made my post earlier about it. Glad that that's available, and even more glad that it was cut!

OT, but you've never seen The Abyss? If not you really should, it's Cameron's best film after Aliens. Also, check out True Lies. It's a much better Arnold film than T2 or T3.

True Lies has a couple of cringe inducing movies (the interrogation scene is... well...)

Nevertheless, fully agree on The Abyss. Make sure its the Special Edition, and not the theatrical version (in short, the theatrical version was taken by studio execs and released before Cameron had finished the film, and it ended up missing a large chunk of its conclusion).

[Duke Togo]

The special edition of The Abyss is just a teaser of the preachy BS he stuffed down our throats in Avatar. Avoid it like the plague.

[sketchley]

The special edition of The Abyss is just a teaser of the preachy BS he stuffed down our throats in Avatar. Avoid it like the plague.

That may be so, but at least it cleans up the majority of the plot, and doesn't leave the audience scratching their heads at how underwhelming the conclusion is.

[Gubaba]

Yeah, I did see the Abyss, I just forgot about it. That's what a raving Cameron fanboy I am.

[Agent ONE]

I am even more of a fanboy than most. I don't like any of them except the original film. T2 was a kiddie film. To me T2 is like the prequels are to star wars. And yes, 3 and 4 were not really worth seeing.

[Hikuro]

hm. guess I'm the only real terminator fan. while I didn't really like 3 and 4 I still watch them. heck when I did see that ending to 3 in theaters I went "whhhhhaaaaaaa? YES!"

cause I wanted a future war. I got my future war but it wasn't as cool as I'd expected it to be.

but there's been a ton more in other media formats to keep me happy for years.

[Knight26]

T1 was the best terminator film, period.

T2 was a fun movie, but a bad sequel, it broke the rules established in the first film. Had they not done the whole "stop judgement day" thing I could have forgiven more of its flaws, in terms of being a sequel.

T3 was horribly miscast and ended up more an action comedy then anything else

T4 had great potential, showing us the future war, and having a good cast, but the writing and direction (sorry McG is not a good director, Charlie's Angels, bleh, any director that destroys a Shelby Cobra is dead to me)

T-G: I dunno, will probably watch it on netflix unless the reviews are just spectacular.

[technoblue]

Yeah, well, this isn't '91 and we're not talking about Terminator 2. Flipping it on it's head was a good idea then. But this is Terminator 5... come up with something new.

I agree with Mommar. Terminator needs fresh ideas. Personally, I would love to see Terminator move away from the old formula of introduction, chase, escalation, and final fight. This is especially important now since the sequels have ruined the tidy ending of T1. There have also been more advancements in computers and artificial intelligence since the 1980s and 1990s. It would be nice if Terminator added better ideas to its fiction.

At the moment, for instance, Person of Interest has created a better, more believable near future AI in its current television run than Terminator was ever able to do when imagining a pre-Judgement Day Skynet. It's a pie-in-the-sky idea, but I think it would be very brave if Terminator would move away from retelling John and/or Sarah Connor's story and took the audience somewhere else for a change.

[JB0]

T1 was the best terminator film, period.

Word.

T2 was a fun movie, but a bad sequel, it broke the rules established in the first film. Had they not done the whole "stop judgement day" thing I could have forgiven more of its flaws, in terms of being a sequel.

Terminator 2, taken on it's own, also has plot holes big enough to drive a truck through.

But no one much cares because they DID drive a truck through them. And then blew it up. And then did it again thirty minutes later.

It's dumb, stupid, incredibly loud fun.

I agree with Mommar. Terminator needs fresh ideas. Personally, I would love to see Terminator move away from the old formula of introduction, chase, escalation, and final fight. This is especially important now since the sequels have ruined the tidy ending of T1. There have also been more advancements in computers and artificial intelligence since the 1980s and 1990s. It would be nice if Terminator added better ideas to its fiction.

At the moment, for instance, Person of Interest has created a better, more believable near future AI in its current television run than Terminator was ever able to do when imagining a pre-Judgement Day Skynet. It's a pie-in-the-sky idea, but I think it would be very brave if Terminator would move away from retelling John and/or Sarah Connor's story and took the audience somewhere else for a change.

Unfortunatly, Hollywood believes a single computer virus can run on a dozen(or more!) different platforms and this is a perfectly rational premise. That's going to greatly hinder any atempts at realistic portrayals.

About the only thing that made sense in Terminator 3 was Skynet being a heavily-networked array instead of a single mainframe. Most of it's attempts at explanation had me screaming "computers do not work that way!" at the screen.

Edited December 5, 2014 by JB0

[Gakken85]

I liked 3 because it re-established a similar tone to 1, even though it did have some stupid jokes in it.

It was about fate being a crushing force, and you either deal with it or die.

Conner is forced into that bunker and has to organize the resistance, even though he was running from it. Kate had to help her husband and watch her Father die while the world crumbled around her. Just like Reese had to go back in time to save the woman he loved and die to do it. And just like Sarah had to have her life destroyed to create John.

Arnold re-established that even though he was programmed to help Conner he was still just a machine, and the ending is pretty grim, yet sets up the possibility of future stories nicely. Which 4 shat all over.

Plus the terminator telling Conner to basically grow the f00k up at his mothers grave was pretty nice.

I thought the action was great and the performances were solid. I say real fans because I think these themes should be clear to people who like the first movie, and I saw 3 as an attempt to reestablish that.

I'm not sure why people hate it with such minor flaws.

Also, in terms of science fiction, the Terminatrix makes a lot more sense than the T-1000.

The T-1000 in 2 makes no damned sense, unless Cameron is claiming that every individual atom of that machine has the same sentience and control as every other piece. Otherwise when its destroyed or broken up it would have no ability to reform or act on it's on. It would have to have some kind of robot core beyond nano-technology that was never even hinted at in the film or the books even for the future level of technology.

Nobody ever questions it, but it just shows how flat Cameron's ideas are when he isn't using other peoples concepts. He thought a liquid robot would be cool looking, and it was at the time, but it makes no sense that it would reconstitute itself or be able to function with giant losses of it mass.

It pisses me off to no end.

I like 2. I saw it in the theater the summer it came out and loved it as a kid, but it has issues. People act like it's a golden standard.

4 was crap for a lot of reasons, and the only good thing about it was Reese in the future. The actor who played the terminator sucked. His motivations made no sense. Bale was just being bale and yelling at crap, and I have no fooking clue how Marla from Fight Club wormed her way into the film.

The ending was a pile of crap too... why not just let Conner die? A Terminator gives him his heart? Are you serious? Is this a children's cartoon?

Utter garbage. It broke the simple concept of the first film that there must be sacrifices.

I've said this in other places, but the reason so many Sci-if films were classics in the 80s is simple.

They were slasher horror films. That's all there is to it.

Predator. Alien. Terminator. Robocop even, to a lesser degree. They all got their start with a shoe string budget and all the elements of the horror genre of the 80s. The sci-if stuff was added to it, the terminology and the settings changed, but it was still a force of nature destroying obstacles. The rules were a little different as the hero's had a chance to win, but that's all you need to make it work. In other words make it dark and make it a struggle for somebody.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Gakken85

[azrael]

About the only thing that made sense in Terminator 3 was Skynet being a heavily-networked array instead of a single mainframe. Most of it's attempts at explanation had me screaming "computers do not work that way!" at the screen.

That was the only redeeming plot point of the whole movie.

But T3's whole plot that Judgement Day will come no matter what feels like a semi-fixed flux point. It's going to happen but the details could change as to how it happens. Which means whatever happens in these movies where they are time traveling are meaningless.