Terminator 5/Terminator: Genisys, opening July 1, 2015

[Hikuro]

oh........that.....looked.......horrible. all of it. and that's what I was wanting to see.

[TangledThorns]

This just gets worse, just like the ALIEN sequels. I blame James Cameron for not doing a better job of holding onto those properties.

[areaseven]

Just three more years and Cameron gets back the rights...

[taksraven]

Just three more years and Cameron gets back the rights...

Yeah, and Terminator will be BURIED FOREVER!

Enjoy it while you can.

[Duke Togo]

Just three more years and Cameron gets back the rights...

To do what with? While its not as bad a prospect as Lucas getting his hands back on Star Wars would be, it's still not good.

[electric indigo]

Aliens vs. Terminators!

[TangledThorns]

Aliens vs. Terminators!

vs. coked up Hollywood execs!

[areaseven]

To do what with? While its not as bad a prospect as Lucas getting his hands back on Star Wars would be, it's still not good.

Cameron will write a new story where Terminators are sent to Pandora to wipe out the Na'vi for the Earth to harvest more unobtainium. But as usual, the Terminators are met with heavy resistance led by Jake Sully of the Jarhead Clan, so Skynet sends a Terminator back in time to kill Sully's ancestors.

[Duke Togo]

Cameron will write a new story where Terminators are sent to Pandora to wipe out the Na'vi for the Earth to harvest more unobtainium. But as usual, the Terminators are met with heavy resistance led by Jake Sully of the Jarhead Clan, so Skynet sends a Terminator back in time to kill Sully's ancestors.

I wouldn't be shocked if Cameron had already had that conversation.

[Hikuro]

Ugh nevermind spoiler tag isn't working for me for some damn reason.

Just overall, movie wasn't bad, it wasn't great. But it wasn't bad. It's no where near the first or the 2nd but it's better than the 3rd and the 4th.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Hikuro

[areaseven]

Another reason why the original film will remain awesome.

[areaseven]

A1's gonna love this.

[Agent ONE]

Heh, I appreciate it for sure, but there is no real way to summarize an arnold film. They should all be seen in full length... Except Junior. That never really happened.

[TangledThorns]

In my Facebook feed I've seen two friends post that they loved this new movie

[Hikuro]

In my Facebook feed I've seen two friends post that they loved this new movie

Because it wasn't a bad movie it was just badly marketed. There's a ton of stuff I wanna say about this film both good and both bad, but I can't.

All I can say is if you're looking for that magic and innovation from the first two movies it's not going to be there. If you're looking for a popcorn flick or you didn't like rise or salvation then do this one. Just don't go in looking for the same thing that drew you in cause you'll never get that feeling again.

It's the same thing I said about Jurassic world. With today's technology and hollywoods milking of popular franchises you'll never see anything new and creative AGAIN. So you just gotta sit and enjoy it for what it is.

Or think of it like this, better than age of extinction.

[myk]

Yeah, but what ISN'T better than Age of Extinction...

[areaseven]

Yeah, but what ISN'T better than Age of Extinction...

G-Saviour?

[JB0]

Yeah, but what ISN'T better than Age of Extinction...

The first of the Bayformers movies?

[Negotiator]

It is a fun summer movie. Arnold looked like he had alot of fun and none of the new actors bothered me once I got adjusted to them. There are good and bad/corny parts but w/e rewatching parts of T2 can make you cringe too. There's enough of a new plot that it didn't feel like a 'T3, Predators' rehashing. I'll echo Hikuro and say "enjoy it for what it is".

[myk]

G-Saviour?

Never seen it...

The first of the Bayformers movies?

I liked the first one very much. Age of Extinction was beyond awful....

[jenius]

I don't know if I would say I liked the first one very much but I thought it worked for what it was. The second one was mostly unwatchable, the third was similarly bad, I haven't forced myself to watch the fourth one after the other two turd baths.

This thread has me convinced I need to watch T2 again. When I saw it in the theaters I thought it was the most amazing movie ever. It'd be interesting to see how it aged. I did just recently watch the alternate ending... Thank God that ending didn't stay.

[myk]

I'm certainly not discounting the many, many issues with Bayformers 1, however I will say that movie "worked" for me as well.

As for T2, the only thing about that movie that doesn't work for me now would be some of the special effects, as well as the red headed kid with the mullet. Other than that, I think the movie will always hold up well.

What is it about T2 that some of you guys find corny or cringeworthy about it now?

[JB0]

What is it about T2 that some of you guys find corny or cringeworthy about it now?

As I've said before, it's a movie with plot holes big enough to drive a truck through. But no one cares because they DO drive a truck through them, then blow the truck up, then do it again a half hour later.

I've made my peace with T2, but while a fun movie, it is a TERRIBLE sequel to a work that polished every minor to make sure it all fit together perfectly.

[myk]

As I've said before, it's a movie with plot holes big enough to drive a truck through. But no one cares because they DO drive a truck through them, then blow the truck up, then do it again a half hour later.I've made my peace with T2, but while a fun movie, it is a TERRIBLE sequel to a work that polished every minor to make sure it all fit together perfectly.

Plot holes liiiiiiiiiiiiiiike.... the T1K copying the hospital guard and the non-flesh time traveling? You'll have to excuse me, as it's 7am and I'm high off of exhaust fumes at an early car show.

[JB0]

Plot holes liiiiiiiiiiiiiiike.... the T1K copying the hospital guard and the non-flesh time traveling? You'll have to excuse me, as it's 7am and I'm high off of exhaust fumes at an early car show.

I just remember there were a lot of problems if you view it critically.

And MAN, I don't wanna watch it again to index them.

[Hikuro]

The problem could of been corrected and thus none organic could pass through the field generated for time travel. This is also explained in Robocop VS Terminator that a Roboterminator hid inside a big pile of fleshy tissue before escaping out and destroying the skynet satellite around orbit.

So with that idea, why not 1 of 2 possibilities? Either 1) The T1000 survived time travel by being incased in some kind of organic tissue cocoon or 2) Using a captured refugee/soldier who was forced to carry the T1000 through the field generated by the TDE and then killed it's host upon arrival.

The 2nd possibility was thought of from one of the previous Terminator comics where the Terminators were sent back with a captured Tecom soldier and they surgically implanted a phase plasma hand gun inside his abdomen then after crossing thru ripped it out of his stomach killing him.

[myk]

All good set of ideas but not officially told in the movies, so it's a plot hole to many like JBO. Regardless I love T2, faults and all. It was my "Interstellar" of the day...

[Roy Focker]

That was a bad movie.

The pre-arrival to 1984 stuff was interesting. You could have made an entire movie about the final battle with Skynet. I enjoyed some of the re-maded scenes. Rest if the movie was just dumb.

Worst of all was Arnold. In T1 he was the scary evil robot. In T2 he was the scary robot following his programming to project Lil John Connor. Then I think in T3 and beyond he became comic relief.

I want to see scary Arnold.

[JB0]

All good set of ideas but not officially told in the movies, so it's a plot hole to many like JBO. Regardless I love T2, faults and all. It was my "Interstellar" of the day...

Actually, I was skipping continuity on my last viewing, taking T2 as it's own thing instead of a sequel to The Terminator.

T2 doesn't claim time travel only works on organic tissue, so it gets a pass on that. (I know the canon excuse is that time machines work on organic tissue, anything encased in organic tissue, and "polymimetic alloys", but it's an ugly retcon and I prefer to just pretend time machines work on machines.)

Though on the subject of busting out of organic tissues... that was something I would've done in the movie sort of, but for very different reasons.

While not really a plot hole per se, it doesn't make logical sense that a robot can perfectly copy the appearance of a human being from a single boot print. What I would have done is have the security guard step on the T1000, the 'bot turns from tile to liquid metal... then slides up and "cocoons" the cop for a full-body scan. When done, right before taking the final form, there's a convulsion inward as it smashes the victim into an unidentifiable mass of assorted meats and bone fragments to prevent leaving an identifiable body behind to blow cover. Instead of a corpse in the janitor closet, there's just a bunch of hamburger and fake blood splashed around.

Also has the production advantage of putting some horror into a horror movie sequel.

The most glaring issue I recall is in the foundry, when the mercury bot is torturing Sarah to get her to call out so he can kill John when he comes to save her.

Then lets her go to chase Arnold.

Then turns into her and calls John himself, leading to the "two Sarahs" scene.

That's problematic on all fronts. He should've killed her immediately, since once he touched her, he could imitate her and call John himself. Failing that, slashed her as he left to chase Arnold. The whole thing is one big "huh?" moment.

That said, I did like the way he had trouble maintaining his form in the heat, and how they initially introduced it(and, though it shouldn't have happened, how it paid off in the Two Sarahs scene). It also goes some way towards explaining why the T1000 was still at the prototype stage(non-functionality in human-livable environments). The foundry scene wouldn't take a lot of reworking to make sense.

Edited July 5, 2015 by JB0

[spanner]

im taking my son to see this in a few days.. intentionally on half price Tuesday of course.. not holding my breath that its going to be any good.. The last few were just horrible.

Just as the Aliens movies, the first two were great but the rest just sucked balls.. there should be a law against making money grab movies.

Don't get me started on the Marvel movies.. shocking.

[myk]

That was a bad movie.

The pre-arrival to 1984 stuff was interesting. You could have made an entire movie about the final battle with Skynet. I enjoyed some of the re-maded scenes. Rest if the movie was just dumb.

Worst of all was Arnold. In T1 he was the scary evil robot. In T2 he was the scary robot following his programming to project Lil John Connor. Then I think in T3 and beyond he became comic relief.

I want to see scary Arnold.

What you bring up is EXACTLY what James Cameron had tried to tell viewers in the special edition versions of Terminator 2: he wanted to expand on the role and the presence of the Terminator, but had to be CAREFUL because he did NOT want the machine to become a symbol of comic relief. In T2 I think Cameron threads the needle just right with mixing a good balance of T800 Model 101 toughness along with some moments to make you realize that the Terminator is capable of learning, and that we as humans are peculiar ourselves. In T3 they blew this idea out of the water, what with the strip competition and everything else. Judging from the previews I can tell that Arnold/T800 comedy and slapstick are probably abundant in Genysis, so you can see why I find it hard to believe that Cameron gave his blessings on this latest iteration.

Actually, I was skipping continuity on my last viewing, taking T2 as it's own thing instead of a sequel to The Terminator.

T2 doesn't claim time travel only works on organic tissue, so it gets a pass on that. (I know the canon excuse is that time machines work on organic tissue, anything encased in organic tissue, and "polymimetic alloys", but it's an ugly retcon and I prefer to just pretend time machines work on machines.)

Though on the subject of busting out of organic tissues... that was something I would've done in the movie sort of, but for very different reasons.

While not really a plot hole per se, it doesn't make logical sense that a robot can perfectly copy the appearance of a human being from a single boot print. What I would have done is have the security guard step on the T1000, the 'bot turns from tile to liquid metal... then slides up and "cocoons" the cop for a full-body scan. When done, right before taking the final form, there's a convulsion inward as it smashes the victim into an unidentifiable mass of assorted meats and bone fragments to prevent leaving an identifiable body behind to blow cover. Instead of a corpse in the janitor closet, there's just a bunch of hamburger and fake blood splashed around.

Also has the production advantage of putting some horror into a horror movie sequel.

The most glaring issue I recall is in the foundry, when the mercury bot is torturing Sarah to get her to call out so he can kill John when he comes to save her.

Then lets her go to chase Arnold.

Then turns into her and calls John himself, leading to the "two Sarahs" scene.

That's problematic on all fronts. He should've killed her immediately, since once he touched her, he could imitate her and call John himself. Failing that, slashed her as he left to chase Arnold. The whole thing is one big "huh?" moment.

That said, I did like the way he had trouble maintaining his form in the heat, and how they initially introduced it(and, though it shouldn't have happened, how it paid off in the Two Sarahs scene). It also goes some way towards explaining why the T1000 was still at the prototype stage(non-functionality in human-livable environments). The foundry scene wouldn't take a lot of reworking to make sense.

All excellent points, especially the two-Sarah plot hole. When it comes to the guard, or mimicking objects in general, I don't see why the T1K has to touch anything; it has eyes or vision just like anything else, so I don't see why the T1K just can't "look" at its target and then mimic it that way. This is how I explained the copying of the guard in the hospital...

[JB0]

I never understood why it had to touch something either, but that was how it was explained, and it's how the movie illustrates it.

My way gives a good reason for the touch. The 1000 gets a detailed survey of the surfaces it's imitating, not just appearance, but also texture, pliability, and warmth. It gives it a way to gather the information needed to make a duplicate that will pass as the real thing.

That it's also friggin' terrifying is a bonus.

[sketchley]

I never understood why it had to touch something either, but that was how it was explained, and it's how the movie illustrates it.

Character movie explanations to other characters have to be taken with a grain of salt. It's possible that they were deliberately misinformed or are passing along someone else's assumptions (if memory serves, it was the T-800 character giving that explanation - the misinformation possibly coming from Skynet, or the assumption coming from future Conner).

I fully agree that in lesser movies the audience has to take what the characters say at face value, and not apply critical thinking to it. In this case, I don't think it's so much a question about T2 being a movie with great writing or not, but if it continues in the "it's a nightmare come to life" theme of the 1st movie. And in that sense, the touch-boot-able-to-copy scene works.

The mercury bot torturing Sara doesn't make as much sense in the theatrical (DVD?) cut. It makes a bit more sense in the Criterion (original) cut - which has a bunch of additional cuts that show the T-1000 starting to break down (or not working properly after being turned solid, shattered, and reforming). I think the only part of that that remains in the theatrical cut is copy-Sara's boots in a blink-and-you-miss it double Sara shot.

Maybe it was no longer able to make instant copies of victims by that point of the movie?

Edited July 5, 2015 by sketchley

[JB0]

The mercury bot torturing Sara doesn't make as much sense in the theatrical (DVD?) cut. It makes a bit more sense in the Criterion (original) cut - which has a bunch of additional cuts that show the T-1000 starting to break down (or not working properly after being turned solid, shattered, and reforming). I think the only part of that that remains in the theatrical cut is copy-Sara's boots in a blink-and-you-miss it double Sara shot.

Maybe it was no longer able to make instant copies of victims by that point of the movie?

Ah, I didn't realize I hadn't watched the theatrical cut.

The implication I got was the T1000 didn't work right in the heat of the foundry, for what it's worth.

But it didn't need a perfect appearance to call John in Sarah's voice, and I'd give it a pass anyways since they DO demonstrate he's malfunctioning were it not for the fact that the bot DOES turn into Sarah five minutes later and call John in her voice. After letting her get away in spite of her being a termination target.

Basically, his machine logic took a flying leap because they didn't want to kill Sarah and they wrote her into a corner.

[Duke Togo]

The T-1000 was severely damaged when shattered, which leads us to the confrontation with Sarah.