BRUCE LEE -Greatest Martial Artist EVER

[Snail00]

This man revolutionized Martial Arts and Martial Arts movies. If it wasnt for him we would not enjoy all the KungFu movies of today

[Shaorin]

BRUCE LEE -Greatest Martial Artist EVER

AMEN to that, Bro...

http://www.brucelee.com/site/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee

http://www.bruceleefoundation.com/

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000045/

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/

http://www.maniacworld.com/Bruce_Lee.htm

http://www.google.com/images?q=BRUCE+LEE&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=qMN&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&prmd=ivnsbo&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=FYBlTd-lHYaasAOwvO3nBA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CCcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=564

i've seen all his films, -got all on DVD- and every last one was PHENOMENAL.

save for those two that came after his death, which were cheesy as all hell,

but still pretty entertaining cinema regardless.

one thing was for certain, however, those movies left me wanting for MORE.

it was truly a great loss to the world, Lee's untimely departure,

as he would surely have graced the 1980's, 1990s, and probably even the 2000s

with many, many more incredible films...

Edited February 23, 2011 by Shaorin

[Ghost Train]

it was truly a great loss to the world, Lee's untimely departure,

as he would surely have graced the 1980's, 1990s, and probably even the 2000s

with many, many more incredible films...

I've wondered about this a lot myself, I'm sure he would have still been involved making movies and explaining his philosophy to the world. It would be great to have seen his take on today's events and showing up on daytime talk or Bill Maher, Leno, etc.

There is a very good English language interview (old school B&W!) preserved by the almighty youtube for time inmemorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW37eD5i24Qhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW37eD5i24Q

From this we see that there is definitely a very fine mind behind the incredible physique. This man was definitely taken from the world too soon. Without Bruce Lee there would have been no Jackie Chan, Jet Li, etc.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Ghost Train

[Vepariga]

Bruce has always been my inspiration and motivation for training.Not only a great martial artist,but one of the worlds best philosophers aswell, He is a Immortal Hero.

[Agent ONE]

This man revolutionized Martial Arts and Martial Arts movies. ...

This is true.

Thread title:

BRUCE LEE -Greatest Martial Artist EVER. ...

This is in NO WAY true.

[UN Spacy]

He's no Steven Seagal.

[realdeal]

He also invented proper sparring gear for us martial artists. Truly he was a genius.

[PetarB]

He's no Steven Seagal.

Thank goodness for that - why would he want to be?

He was a great martial artist. However he is not the best 'ever'. As a martial artist myself - and a movie fan - I can tell you he is very inspiring, however there are a lot more martial artists/movie stars that I find more inspiring these days. The great Jet Li is one.

But let's not forget Bruce. Bruce was amazing.

[terry the lone wolf]

Bruce was the martial world's greatest super star but that's not saying he was the greatest martial artist (he didn't compete). From Chuck Norris to Jet Li; Bruce opened the door (or maybe kicked the door)to allow martial artists to make big money doing the arts for movies, tv, and all sorts of mass media. Once an underground grind house niche you can find martial arts in almost every part of pop culture because of Bruce Lee.

[treatment]

of course!

[EXO]

Thread in time for new Hot Toys Bruce Lee figure.

[Gui]

I just put this here:

[reddsun1]

This is in NO WAY true.

Alright then, who?

LOL, and don't say: Ahnold!

[Nicaragua]

In no way is Bruce Lee the greatest martial artist in the world. He was just the first one that got in the media spotlight by using his talents.

Sure he was an amazing martial artist, seemed like quite a cool guy and had a great philosophy but his movies arent that great and while it was impressive in the day to audiences its not that brilliant to anyone who follows martial arts.

He was the first big martial arts star, he opened a lot of doors and changed percpetions, but lets not get carried away with bullshit.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nicaragua

[reddsun1]

Thread in time for new Hot Toys Bruce Lee figure.

Ha! The irony is not lost on me here. It's pretty neat that that figure is very, very accurate--and that in itself flies right in the face of conventional toydom. You know how pretty much any superhero/action figure is typically over-sculpted, has a physique/features that are exaggerated to the point of being almost mis-shapen? i.e. they're so ripped, no human could realistically achieve that kind of physical prowess. So how cool is it that Bruce Lee was SO bada$$ that you could make an insanely ripped, over-sculpted toy of him, and it looks JUST like him?

[Agent ONE]

Alright then, who?

LOL, and don't say: Ahnold!

The way he fights is for show. Nothing he ever did has been effective in MMA. MMA has shown the world that most effective martial art in the cage/ring is american wrestling.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Agent ONE

[reddsun1]

Indeed. A lot of combat in the real world does in fact degrade into a lot of grappling, tussling, groping on the ground, etc. But I don't tend to look at martial arts (films) in the same light as that. Apples vs oranges. As a kid, I thought kung-fu movies were cool, sort of "man, what a cool way to beat somebody up." But I've come to appreciate martial arts--as practiced for film and TV--with much more emphasis on the arts part of it, much like ballet or other highly crafted performance. The highly practiced and refined artistry that goes into the choreography of it is what I can appreciate. But I also know that with the vast majority of that stuff, one cannot reasonably expect go out into the real world and try it on some tough in a bar--you'll wind up getting yer arse kicked, or worse.

As for what I would personally choose to "follow," I got a copy of the USMC Close Combat Training Manual. Now, if only I could discipline myself to actually dedicate the necessary time to studying it...

Edited February 24, 2011 by reddsun1

[Snail00]

The way he fights is for show. Nothing he ever did has been effective in MMA. MMA has shown the world that most effective martial art in the cage/ring is american wrestling.

If the Dragon was in the Octagon he would literally kill every fighter! Kung-Fu is not used in the ring. I have trained and sparred with real Kung-fu artists and I received a fracture on my forearm with just a glancing blow. There are some moves that can kill you and that is why you really need to toughen up in the art. Ring fighting and street fighting are two separate combat styles. That is one of the dumbest questions asked. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

The guy I used to spar with once told me, when he was a slave to a rich family back in china if you are in a bar fight you kill one guy and the rest back off. When I met him i was in my mid 20s and Dept manager at staples. "Jimmy" was our warehouse clerk. When I asked him to get a MFS unit he would climb a 14 cage like you see in the movies. When we sparred and he started training me hewas careful not to hurt me but I still got the fracture. For every offensive move he had 3 counters for, it was simply amazing. If you want to see real fighting, on occasion if you know the right people go to china town and street fights can be found with money being tossed around exactly like you see in the movies. The point is you cant ask how Bruce would do in a ring. Without gloves and rules, I doubt that any fighter would last a round with him. He is just that good.

BTW - Brucey did have a lot of ground work too with some great submission holds

Edited February 24, 2011 by Snail00

[Nicaragua]

MMA has shown the world that most effective martial art in the cage/ring is american wrestling.

Actually what MMA has shown is that the most effective martial art is mixed martial arts. Hence why one dimensional wrestlers like ryan bader and brock lesnar lose to more well rounded fighters like jon jones and cain velasquez.

[treatment]

The way he fights is for show. Nothing he ever did has been effective in MMA. MMA has shown the world that most effective martial art in the cage/ring is american wrestling.

Lol! That's really funny, A-One.

Srsly, tho. Everyone would have love to watch Bruce Lee fight in the octagon of the MMA.

However, had he lived, I just don't think Bruce Lee will be that desperate enough to join that kind of violent circus.

Maybe Chuck Norris instead?

[reddsun1]

Lol! That's really funny, A-One.

Srsly, tho. Everyone would have love to watch Bruce Lee fight in the octagon of the MMA.

However, had he lived, I just don't think Bruce Lee will be that desperate enough to join that kind of violent circus.

Maybe Chuck Norris instead?

Hah! Chuck Norris would never enter such a contest, because he wouldn't want it to be so grossly unfair. Everyone knows: Chuck Norris has the ability to crack the time/space continuum with the force of the pressure wave from one of his punches. Chuck Norris would tear down the cage bars with one hand, then challenge the entire audience to a fight!

[Hoptimus]

I am gonna chime in here.

Yes Bruce was amazing. Physically very capable and a great Martial Artist. The greatest? Maybe but we will never know for sure. He upped the game and people took that in arms. There were many others during his time also but they were busy seeking their own paths. People like Mas Oyama,the founder of Kyokushin.

His Legacy is that he showed people what Martial Arts could be in FILM.

[Agent ONE]

If the Dragon was in the Octagon he would literally kill every fighter! Kung-Fu is not used in the ring...

We are going to have to agree, to disagree. Ponder this:

1. BL would have to gain probably 50 lbs to even make the minimum weight class. He has the bodymass of a 10 year old girl.

2. He is fast because he is so light, which looks great on camera, but not practical in actual fighting (do not argue with this, if this weren't true then weight classes wouldn't exist)

3. BL movies sped up the camera! Its not real time, they showed the fighting scenes faster to make it more impressive. Watch Sean Connery in an old Bond movie, he has lightening fast speed too, because if increased camera speed.

BL is a great ACTOR in action films, nothing more.

Following your line of logic, is Arnold the greatest swordsman to ever live because of his showing in Conan?

[treatment]

We are going to have to agree, to disagree. Ponder this:

1. BL would have to gain probably 50 lbs to even make the minimum weight class. He has the bodymass of a 10 year old girl.

2. He is fast because he is so light, which looks great on camera, but not practical in actual fighting (do not argue with this, if this weren't true then weight classes wouldn't exist)

3. BL movies sped up the camera! Its not real time, they showed the fighting scenes faster to make it more impressive. Watch Sean Connery in an old Bond movie, he has lightening fast speed too, because if increased camera speed.

BL is a great ACTOR in action films, nothing more.

Following your line of logic, is Arnold the greatest swordsman to ever live because of his showing in Conan?

Uhmm, even wikipedia have several documented entries regarding Bruce Lee's actual fights (non-film) during his lifetime, so...

[eugimon]

We are going to have to agree, to disagree. Ponder this:

1. BL would have to gain probably 50 lbs to even make the minimum weight class. He has the bodymass of a 10 year old girl.

2. He is fast because he is so light, which looks great on camera, but not practical in actual fighting (do not argue with this, if this weren't true then weight classes wouldn't exist)

3. BL movies sped up the camera! Its not real time, they showed the fighting scenes faster to make it more impressive. Watch Sean Connery in an old Bond movie, he has lightening fast speed too, because if increased camera speed.

BL is a great ACTOR in action films, nothing more.

Following your line of logic, is Arnold the greatest swordsman to ever live because of his showing in Conan?

I don't know man, pacquiao has been beating the cr@p out of people bigger and heavier than him. There's a lot to be said for speed and skill.

[Snail00]

I don't know man, pacquiao has been beating the cr@p out of people bigger and heavier than him. There's a lot to be said for speed and skill.

that's ok Agent 1 thinks MASSIVE MUSCLE MASS=Kicking ass ability. Which IS in fact WRONG. In university I was on the Carleton U Rowing Team. I got special access to the heavy weight room that the football muscle bound meatheads had. I was 145lbs and my max bench was 325Lbs 15 reps, where some meatheads could not believe I was able to push. Mass does not equal strength. In HS I took Judo, Grecco Roman, shurijun kenkoken (i think I have the name right?- I weighed in at 170 at 5'6) and body building. When I had a school fight with buddy (stupid disagreement over a girl)he weighed approx. 110LBS and 5 foot and I know he was a big time student in one the best schools in KungFu at the time. Ill be honest, he kicked my ass. I thought I would mangle him with my strength and I could put him in a choke hold or a throw position, the little bastard was so quick and hard to get a hold off that he cornered me with about 10-15 shots to my chest and that hurt like a son a bitch and knocked the wind out of me. After the fight I had a whole new respect for the KungFu art. We are still friends and in the clubbing days I was happy he had my back in case something started. So NO, Bruce would still kill someone with rules removed. So cant compare. His movies were not as scripted as J.Chang's, even tho Chang was/is in great shape and probably could kick all of our asses. For those who are in any of the martial arts, there is never a moment where you are thinking about a move/counter move. It happens naturally. A guy who studies over years, it becomes natural in a fight which is disable as fast as possible to reduce risk of injury. In the ring its completely different. You are parring something that Bruce came up with very good techniques for. In the ring you can see in some of the ground work that the guy is thinking which hold to go with for submission. I think that's why GSP, AS are so good. They don't do a lot of thinking. It happens naturally.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Snail00

[Zor Primus]

Don't think...FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL!!!

[VT 1010]

I apologize for the following post being so long-winded, but there's a lot to address.

I have to say I think Bas is spot on here. Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but his grappling skills--though admirable for his time--were lacking by today's standards. This is not to mention modern training methods and (as AgentONE correctly stated) the size of the fighters. Nonetheless, given the proper time for preparation and training, I'm sure he could do quite well in a low weight class--he won a boxing championship before he even knew much about boxing afterall. BTW, AgentONE, did you actually watch the whole video you posted?.

The debate over whether or not Bruce Lee could still kick ass in this day and age, how would he do in the UFC, etc. has been done to death. There never will be a definitive answer. All we can do is speculate. I'm afraid I can't say much there; however, the answer as to whether or not Bruce was a skilled martial artist and fighter has been fairly well established. As for my credibility here, I have met and studied briefly under two of Bruce Lee's students. I also frequently train with an instructor who is certified in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do under another one of Bruce's students. In addition, I have around forty or so books on the subject, have read and watched countless interviews, and have just done a lot research in this area.

The way he fights is for show.

This is true for the movies. He would choreograph the fight scenes to look cool and that often entailed unrealistic fights. Off screen, in the real world, Bruce fought very differently though. This is backed up by home movies, pictures, and eye witness accounts.

Nothing he ever did has been effective in MMA.

Excluding trapping, much of we he did later in his life was largely a modified form of boxing with various kicks and grappling techniques thrown in (this is not only backed up by his students, but also is in his personal notes). This has certainly been used to great success in MMA.

In addition, three students of his (Mike Stone, Joe Lewis, and Chuck Norris) were able to use his concepts and techniques in full-contact sparring competitions successfully (they were all champions). This is by their own accounts. I realize that isn't the same as modern MMA, but at the time it was the closest thing they had (in the ring anyway).

MMA has shown the world that most effective martial art in the cage/ring is american wrestling.

Actually what MMA has shown is that the most effective martial art is mixed martial arts. Hence why one dimensional wrestlers like ryan bader and brock lesnar lose to more well rounded fighters like jon jones and cain velasquez.

Indeed. The Gracie's did quite well in the early days of the UFC, until the other fighters started cross training. Western wrestling, Judo, and Brazilian Jiujitsu are great arts, but tend to work poorly in isolation against a skilled MMA practitioner.

Srsly, tho. Everyone would have love to watch Bruce Lee fight in the octagon of the MMA.

However, had he lived, I just don't think Bruce Lee will be that desperate enough to join that kind of violent circus.

Some of his students tried to get him to compete in tournaments back in the day, but competition never really interested him. Even if he had and was successful, I'm sure the debate would still rage on though.

There were many others during his time also but they were busy seeking their own paths. People like Mas Oyama,the founder of Kyokushin.

I think it's important to realize this. There were many other great martial artists out there, but Bruce just happened to be a famous actor as well.

2. He is fast because he is so light, which looks great on camera, but not practical in actual fighting (do not argue with this, if this weren't true then weight classes wouldn't exist)

He's fast because he trained to be fast. Huge muscles alone don't slow you down. It's about training methods.

And according to those that have been on the receiving end of his punches (and kicks), in spite of his size, he could still hit very HARD. He may not have the striking force of some today's MMA behemoths, but he still had a lot of force behind his fists. Let's also not forget the one inch punch he helped make famous.

3. BL movies sped up the camera! Its not real time, they showed the fighting scenes faster to make it more impressive.

That's not true. According to footage shot outside of his films and eye witness accounts, he was just as fast--if not faster--than what was seen in the movies. In fact, while filming thier fight scenes for the Game of Death, Bruce and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar actually had to force themselves to go slower as it looked like a camera trick when played back.

BL is a great ACTOR in action films, nothing more.

Though he wasn't the first, Bruce helped popularize cross training in a time when that was often frowned upon. Dana White has even called him the father of MMA. Also uncommon in the era was his training. Instead of the repetitious, unnatural practice of forms/kata, he advocated full contact sparring. In the 60s, it was almost unheard of to don a bunch of protective gear and go all out. Though Bruce didn't invent all of this, he certainly brought more awareness too it. I think it's important to at least recognize that.

Uhmm, even wikipedia have several documented entries regarding Bruce Lee's actual fights (non-film) during his lifetime, so...

Bruce Lee didn't have a ton of ring experience (though he did have some), but he had a lot of experience in street fights. In his youth, he was quite the ruffian. And even when he got older, there was still the occasional challenger.

[anime52k8]

Following your line of logic, is Arnold the greatest swordsman to ever live because of his showing in Conan?

no, I'd say that would be Christopher Lambert.

[Gui]

If the Dragon was in the Octagon he would literally kill every fighter! Kung-Fu is not used in the ring. I have trained and sparred with real Kung-fu artists and I received a fracture on my forearm with just a glancing blow. There are some moves that can kill you and that is why you really need to toughen up in the art. [...]

Back in the feudal era, shaolin monks used martial arts to protect people's offerings to the gods from thieves: there was no rings whatsoever and they killed fanatically whoever tried to take what belonged to the ones they worshipped – hence, noone tried to steal the offerings, at least noone who lived to tell...

No, martial arts are not for the rings – great sports to get great physical shape though.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Gui

[Gui]

Bruce Lee didn't have a ton of ring experience (though he did have some), but he had a lot of experience in street fights. In his youth, he was quite the ruffian. And even when he got older, there was still the occasional challenger.

Yep.

Accepting a challenge is one thing, fighting on the ring is an entirely different one: you need the mind of a showoff for this – I don't think Lee was one in his "old" age, even if he once has been maybe...

[Nicaragua]

If the Dragon was in the Octagon he would literally kill every fighter! Kung-Fu is not used in the ring. I have trained and sparred with real Kung-fu artists and I received a fracture on my forearm with just a glancing blow. There are some moves that can kill you and that is why you really need to toughen up in the art. Ring fighting and street fighting are two separate combat styles. That is one of the dumbest questions asked. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

The guy I used to spar with once told me, when he was a slave to a rich family back in china if you are in a bar fight you kill one guy and the rest back off. When I met him i was in my mid 20s and Dept manager at staples. "Jimmy" was our warehouse clerk. When I asked him to get a MFS unit he would climb a 14 cage like you see in the movies. When we sparred and he started training me hewas careful not to hurt me but I still got the fracture. For every offensive move he had 3 counters for, it was simply amazing. If you want to see real fighting, on occasion if you know the right people go to china town and street fights can be found with money being tossed around exactly like you see in the movies. The point is you cant ask how Bruce would do in a ring. Without gloves and rules, I doubt that any fighter would last a round with him. He is just that good.

BTW - Brucey did have a lot of ground work too with some great submission holds

im sorry but this entire comment is one of the most ridiculous things i have ever read, it sounds like it has been written by a child reciting a load of hype and exageration to his friends in the playground.

Having your arm broken by a glancing blow is nonsense unless you have brittle bone disease - do you understand what a glancing blow is?

Some guy climbing a cage isnt some kind of testament to kung-fu. People who practice parkour can do infinitely more impressive feats than climbing a cage.

ALL martial arts have moves that can be fatal so its nothing unique to kung-fu. A wrestler could drop you on your spine, a muay thai boxer could spinning back elbow you in the back of the head, a jui-jitsu practioner could choke you to death.

Bruce Lee was impressive in the 70's, welcome to 2011.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Nicaragua

[VT 1010]

Yep.

Accepting a challenge is one thing, fighting on the ring is an entirely different one: you need the mind of a showoff for this – I don't think Lee was one in his "old" age, even if he once has been maybe...

I'm afraid I disagree with you there. I wouldn't say to compete in the ring you have to be a showoff. It's true that some fighters are like that, but most of them are just like any other athlete: they mostly enjoy the challenge of competition.

Also, Bruce liked to showoff on occasion too. His showmanship was a part of his popularity. IIRC, I think he didn't want to compete because of the rules. He trained for street-oriented fighting and they generally frown on eye gouging and biting in the ring.

[Agent ONE]

Uhmm, even wikipedia have several documented entries regarding Bruce Lee's actual fights (non-film) during his lifetime, so...

All alleged. IMO, just BS made up by fans. We will never know though.

that's ok Agent 1 thinks MASSIVE MUSCLE MASS=Kicking ass ability. Which IS in fact WRONG...

If that were true, there wouldn't be weight classes.

[Agent ONE]

Alright I have read everyone's comments. Maybe I am too tough on him, and Dana White is correct, he is the first guy to cross train, but still, the may is overrated. BL is famous, because he was the first. Thats it.

Also on the topic of size and strength. Guys, I partake in MMA for recreation. I am big, I know what happens when I contact with guys that are more skilled than me but small... The go down like rag dolls.

I was sparing in pads with a Wing Chun black belt a few months ago (I am Krav level3/5) and though the guy is faster than I am, and landed some hits, they did little to slow me down. I hit him hard enough to make him drop for 5 min. So much for the wicked Wing Chun. The guy was 150lbs 5'10, I am 6ft 220.