Hi-Metal VF-25's, would you?

[jenius]

but a 1/100 toy would not be in scale with Bandai's Konig. The Konig is in scale with the Robot Spirits toys which is like 1/115 scale or something odd. -

[Frogze]

I know, I've read it in your review of the VB-6 btw. I could overlook that slight scale difference to have a MF transforming figures display though.

[Tking22]

So my Ozma VF100 VF-25S is on the way, I know how bad they are trust me Ive read and watched every review out there, but I really want a clean 1/100 VF-25 and Ozma's scheme is my favorite. I just want to know what kind of stand are you supposed to use for these guys? Is it a stage act 5 or what? Help would be appreciated, thanks guys.

[Tking22]

Any word on the stand that goes with the VF100 line?

[RyuRoots]

It's not what you're supposed to use, but I put mine on an Action Base 2 (for gunpla). It's cheap, and I find that it works rather well.

There are doubtlessly better ones to use for this sort of thing, but I'm no expert, and it'd be good if you want something on the cheap. It only really applies to fighter mode, though; Battroid wouldn't fit, I think.

[anime52k8]

So my Ozma VF100 VF-25S is on the way, I know how bad they are trust me Ive read and watched every review out there, but I really want a clean 1/100 VF-25 and Ozma's scheme is my favorite. I just want to know what kind of stand are you supposed to use for these guys? Is it a stage act 5 or what? Help would be appreciated, thanks guys.

The stand adapters the figure comes with are for the Tamashii stage stands. They should work with any of them although you'll probably want an act 2 or newer for better clearance/posability options.

[00Geass]

How is the VF Hi-metal line doing? we havent gotten any new valks since the vf-1 mold

[regult]

Now that you ask that question, it's a bit scary how quiet it has been...But I guess releases will only slow down until new Macross content comes up (ie. the 2nd Frontier movie), so it's not that the toy line is failing, it's the overall state of Japanese economy and mecha demographics dwindling.

[Midi_Amp]

Quoting that famous line... Yes! And a thousand times YES! If Bandai would sell it as non web limited, I'd buy each and every rendition of the VF25 including the Armor and fast pack. I just ordered the DX Koenig Monster and would love to display it next to a proper transforming VF25s, currently it is planned to be accompanied by Alto's VF100 VF25F.

I would even suffice for Bandai to just rescale the 1/60 VF25 smaller and slap a Hi-Metal logo on the packaging, stiff Gerwalk mode legs and everything. Even though I hate my VF100 Alto custom for being a jigsaw puzzle than a transforming toy, the proportion and details are top notch. So at least Bandai engineers doesn't need to start from scratch.

Now that you ask that question, it's a bit scary how quiet it has been...But I guess releases will only slow down until new Macross content comes up (ie. the 2nd Frontier movie), so it's not that the toy line is failing, it's the overall state of Japanese economy and mecha demographics dwindling.

I hope the YF-21 mold that we saw exactly a year ago didn't got thrown to the bin. Bandai has the VF-19 kai and S, a slight retool would resulted in the YF-19. Combined with the fact that VF-22 took 95% of YF-21 mold... Why not?

Let's see if Bandai announce anything before the second movie premieres, it's at the end of this month right?

[RyuRoots]

Let's see if Bandai announce anything before the second movie premieres, it's at the end of this month right?

Hopefully. It does make me nervous that the VF-1A doesn't have a non-Web Limited release, though.

[regult]

I would even suffice for Bandai to just rescale the 1/60 VF25 smaller and slap a Hi-Metal logo on the packaging, stiff Gerwalk mode legs and everything. Even though I hate my VF100 Alto custom for being a jigsaw puzzle than a transforming toy, the proportion and details are top notch. So at least Bandai engineers doesn't need to start from scratch.

Answering the first part, it does look like Bandai only scaled down the DX, even kept features for transformation like the recess under the cockpit on the VF100 (which is completely useless on the smaller version since that is a replaceable part, same with the placement of the leg, since it's a plug and play articulation, there was no technical limitation to place it lower in the battroid mode). Proportions and placement of legs in battroid are exactly the same in both: too high up. It really looks like they took the DX, scaled it down, took away most of the transformation and screwed up the VF100 line. I don't think Bandai wants to do that again with Hi-metal.

Off topic maybe, but I can't help wondering what's with the obsession of naming almost all-plastic toys "metal"? "Hi-metal"? is that what the collector says when he sees a metal joint in a 99% plastic toy? same happens with the "Chogokin" branding, which means "super metal alloy" when the VF is plastic except some parts like the shoulder and the shameful landing gears. Disclaimer: I don't really care if my models are heavy, I probably care more if they can sustain transformation and still look as good as possible on the shelf.

[arrow]

makes me wonder if their first experiment (super robot chogokin) of making a budget line( with little die cast) worked.

[Midi_Amp]

Hopefully. It does make me nervous that the VF-1A doesn't have a non-Web Limited release, though.

My 2 cent: I rather understands Bandai's decision to make the VF-1A trio as limited. The logistic would be nightmare, especially on deciding which one should be produced more and which one is less (vote for Kakizaki). Bandai won't be able to accurately measure the production and the inventory cost. But their product planner needs to be punched on the boobs for making the fast pack a limited for limited item... If I'm not mistaken, the Hi-Metal line have more limited item than the standard release? 4 standard (Hikaru VF-1A, TV Fokker VF-1S, VF19 kai, VF19 Blazer) 6 limited (the 3 skull squadron, FAST pack for VF-1, VF19kai stand and sound booster).

But how do they make money? The money maker is in the standard edition for sure as it's sold globally. The limited items high price because of the "seekers fee", and that's it. Funny how the bean counter on Bandai works.

Answering the first part, it does look like Bandai only scaled down the DX, even kept features for transformation like the recess under the cockpit on the VF100 (which is completely useless on the smaller version since that is a replaceable part, same with the placement of the leg, since it's a plug and play articulation, there was no technical limitation to place it lower in the battroid mode). Proportions and placement of legs in battroid are exactly the same in both: too high up. It really looks like they took the DX, scaled it down, took away most of the transformation and screwed up the VF100 line. I don't think Bandai wants to do that again with Hi-metal.

Off topic maybe, but I can't help wondering what's with the obsession of naming almost all-plastic toys "metal"? "Hi-metal"? is that what the collector says when he sees a metal joint in a 99% plastic toy? same happens with the "Chogokin" branding, which means "super metal alloy" when the VF is plastic except some parts like the shoulder and the shameful landing gears. Disclaimer: I don't really care if my models are heavy, I probably care more if they can sustain transformation and still look as good as possible on the shelf.

I really don't understand why Bandai decided to make the VF100 a jigsaw puzzle than a proper transformer. Don't they have focus discussion group before selling their stuff? My previous Revoltech collection has some leftover parts, but I had a small drawer to place it all. With the VF100, it took the space of 5 Revoltech character leftover parts. It really is a huge hindsight on Bandai part, because they come up with the almost perfect rendition of the VF-1 with smaller dimension than the VF25. Considering development time, the VF-1 and the VF-25 should coincide and an input should be given. In the automotive world, one Japanese brand popular model in the US got stopped dead in the last leg of the development cycle because it's getting too large. Come out the new model with carryover from previous generation, smaller even, so it's not impossible to do so in other industry I guess.

On the metal naming, to me it's more of a thing with nostalgia with old toys comprised of metals and plastics. The chogokin naming (SOC, SRC and other metal meaning names directly or not) is to invoke that kind of nostalgia... For those whose childhood had that kind of toys its relation is instant, and considering that they are old enough to buy the toys which is usually expensive, it's given.

Maybe I'm just reading into it too much, but shorter understanding is that metal beats plastic anytime in term of durability. Funny thing though, Bandai's SHFiguarts figures, those Kamen Rider stuff, some has metal feet but Bandai didn't put any metal anything on its title. I collected one line of SHF, and pleasantly surprised on the metal feet on some of the figures.

makes me wonder if their first experiment (super robot chogokin) of making a budget line( with little die cast) worked.

I think it works, it's sold out everywhere and kind of make ground in my coutnry. The amount of metal is respectable, usually the chest, the lower legs and thigh - hip connectors are metal. I have the Mazinger, Great Mazinger, Alteisen and Reideen. All three except Alteisen has metal on the chest and lower legs, the Alteisen goes a little further by having its stake made out of metal as well.

The good thing about SRC line is that it's small, the same point why I collect VF Hi-Metal (or wanted to collect VF100 in the first place). Between my Revoltech, Gundam kits, SRW OG kits, Robot Damashii, SH Figuarts, SRC, Hi-Metal and my display show case, there's just no more room for a bigger toy. My display show case is starting to get overcrowded, I even had to move some of my collection to the warehouse and considering to sell some of my collection.

So the merit of a smaller scale Valk for me is not just about price, but also about space.

[jenius]

Here's my guess on how the Hi-Metal line (and many other exclusives) works. The company first calculates the costs of creating a new toy. These costs include the R&D, molds, marketing, distribution, the whole deal to the best of their abilities. The company then uses their equation of fixed and variable costs to determine how many units they would have to sell at a range MSRPs. With some input from marketing guys they try to hit the sweet spot of a high quantity sold at the lowest MSRP possible (greater quantity distributes the fixed costs better). With the VF-19Kai all of those costs were likely done on just expected sales of that ONE toy. If the toy sold well they could make a variant for essentially just variable costs + profit margin and make fairly easy money off of a much more limited quantity. If the toy sold poorly there's no reason to produce a variant. With the Hi-Metal VF-1 the line was likely designed with a Focker and Hikaru toy in mind so all costs and profit margins must be recouped by sales from those two models. All the additional valks from there are icing so long as Bandai doesn't drastically over shoot the production quantity.

I imagine Bandai approaches each new toy as its own line. If they were to make a lot more than expected off of one line it doesn't equate to an investment in the next line. That next line is analyzed fresh just like the very first Kai toy. That said, the VF-25 seems to be a no brainer and the only hurdle I can see is that they're afraid a Hi-Metal release would be confused with the disastrous VF100 releases and that would hurt sales.

Edited February 17, 2011 by jenius

[Midi_Amp]

Here's my guess on how the Hi-Metal line (and many other exclusives) works. The company first calculates the costs of creating a new toy. These costs include the R&D, molds, marketing, distribution, the whole deal to the best of their abilities. The company then uses their equation of fixed and variable costs to determine how many units they would have to sell at a range MSRPs. With some input from marketing guys they try to hit the sweet spot of a high quantity sold at the lowest MSRP possible (greater quantity distributes the fixed costs better). With the VF-19Kai all of those costs were likely done on just expected sales of that ONE toy. If the toy sold well they could make a variant for essentially just variable costs + profit margin and make fairly easy money off of a much more limited quantity. If the toy sold poorly there's no reason to produce a variant. With the Hi-Metal VF-1 the line was likely designed with a Focker and Hikaru toy in mind so all costs and profit margins must be recouped by sales from those two models. All the additional valks from there are icing so long as Bandai doesn't drastically over shoot the production quantity.

I imagine Bandai approaches each new toy as its own line. If they were to make a lot more than expected off of one line it doesn't equate to an investment in the next line. That next line is analyzed fresh just like the very first Kai toy. That said, the VF-25 seems to be a no brainer and the only hurdle I can see is that they're afraid a Hi-Metal release would be confused with the disastrous VF100 releases and that would hurt sales.

Understandable as most military themed merchandises are only a paint scheme away from another variant, with the odd additional parts here and there. Going by your logic, it would be super easy for Bandai to redo the VF25 in 1/100 scale. However I expect Bandai to balls up and admit their mistake and move on with hi-metal toyline, not cowering in fear that end users might mistook one product from the other.

Macross Frontier to me is the 21st century rendition of the original Macross, a classic. For Bandai not to cash in on the opportunity is silly, vf100 and robot damashii not included.

[regult]

Understandable as most military themed merchandises are only a paint scheme away from another variant, with the odd additional parts here and there.

Not really, I collect military vehicles and the variables are endless, sometimes the untrained eye may not notice them, but it's an insult to collectors when manufacturers slap a livery on the wrong variant.

The VF-25 is a totally different story, since the changes are modular (head, radar) or add-ons (super pack, armored pack), and livery (white, gray, blue, green, red...), so yes, it relatively easy to make variants, but not as easy as just repaints.

[pud333]

That said, the VF-25 seems to be a no brainer and the only hurdle I can see is that they're afraid a Hi-Metal release would be confused with the disastrous VF100 releases and that would hurt sales.

I hope you are right. I would KILL for a Hi Metal VF-25. KILL! Okay, I wouldn't kill, but I'd do something drastic, that's for sure.

[mrhillz]

You know, a Hi Metal VF-4 would be nice too.

[Tking22]

You know, a Hi Metal VF-4 would be nice too.

Hell yeah I second that.

[RyuRoots]

You know, a Hi Metal VF-4 would be nice too.

Oh, that would be amazing. But I wouldn't count on it until or unless the line gets more solidified.

[regult]

On the other hand, the VF-25 is less remote as discussed in the YF-29 thread (quoting an interview with Bandai personnel). I am not holding my breath, but it's apparently less impossible now to own a transformable VF-25 that does not look like a soap nor a 3D puzzle.