yamato 1/48 version 2???

[eugimon]

somehow, I just knew this would turn into a bitchfest about which scale and toyline is better. If one is gonna call the head placement of the 1/60 "flawed", then so are the placements of the arms and the nose of the 1/48s. The thing is, however, that it's not "flawed". It's simply a design choice. In anycase, neither the 1/60s, 1/48s, or any other scale for that matter, have the toys perfect.

IMO, this thread was gonna be a 1/48 vs. 1/60 just by the title alone. How many of these threads have we had?

The original post was about incorporating v2 designs into an updated 1/48 toy... How can you possibly have that discussion without talking about what works and what doesn't work?

[nightmareB4macross]

Hi all I haven't been posting for a while but anyway been lurking for a while I was wondering, will yamato be doing a 1/48 version 2 with better accuracy like the 1/60 but a lot more details involve, since its a 1/48 I'm sure yamato can add a lot of details more in it. like inside the cockpit or maybe a rotating pilot seat like the vf-0's. I hope yamato can do atleast one run or something coz I still love the 1/48's and I would love to see an updated version of it.

I'm sure Yamato can add a ton more detail with a redesigned sculpt and better overall proportions, especially in the larger 1/48 scale. The real question is will they do it.

Last I remember, Graham stated, Yamato wanted to continue doing everything in 1/60 scale to have a cohesive toyline.

Oh well, here's to hoping and praying that one day it will be done.

[jenius]

But the Hi-Metal has an overly-long chest as a result of the head sitting lower in battroid mode. It doesn't "overcome the flaw", it trades it for a different one. The 1/48 forgoes both and instead has the nosecone hang down below the knees. The fact of the matter is, in order to transform a VF-1 without swapping out the entire nose cone you have to do one of those three, give the plane a stubby nose in fighter mode, or some combination of the 4.

I disagree, not with your observations about current toys but rather the conclusion. Just because no one has found a way to nail it PERFECT doesn't mean it can't be done... it just means it's going to take some inventive engineering. Things can be made to collapse, swap location, etc. in manners that haven't been attempted yet. A larger scale (like a 1/48 V2) makes engineering such things a lot easier to accomplish.

To that end, why I said it wasn't really a fair comparison with the Hi-Metal toy is because it doesn't have an integrated heat shield (primarily). That heatshield would require a place to be stored (not very large) and a mechanism for sliding forward. Obviously that adds to the complexity while taking up space in clearly tight confines.

It's funny how quick most people are to say a toy isn't perfect but people don't like saying a toy has flaws. We don't need to use the same level of diplomacy we use when discussing a friend's girlfriend as we do when talking about a toy from a cartoon that was popular 25+ years ago. I'm not saying the V2 isn't sweet, but her eyes are a little close together and all the women in her family packed on 50lbs after they hit 30... wait, what the crap was I talking about again?

[Ignacio Ocamica]

The main things that I don't like about the 1/48th are the low hanging arms and shoulders in fighter mode, and the super wide canopy....frickin hate how it looks from above or nose on because of that damn wide canopy. IMO, the V2 1/60 is FAR superior to the 1/48.

Chris

+1 The ultra wide canopy at the bottom totally kills the 1/48 for me, and the long skinny upper arms/biceps too.

Now a upscaled v2 1/60 to 1/48 would be ideal.

IMO, this thread was gonna be a 1/48 vs. 1/60 just by the title alone. How many of these threads have we had?

I guess not enough threads

Edited February 3, 2011 by Ignacio Ocamica

[Uxi]

The only benefit of 1/48 is it's a common scale, but too expensive for my tastes. I wish they would hit 1/72 again. Yes with the VF-1.

[Tking22]

I prefer 1/48 better, there's nothing the 1/60 V2 does that the 1/48 doesn't, I like the bigger size of the 1/48. I'm not what some call a line art whore either, I don't flip out if this isn't here, or this is too big, or this is too long, I glance at it and what do I see, a big beautiful valk toy. We'll probably never achieve complete anime accuracy, would anyone expect different?

[Jasonc]

The original post was about incorporating v2 designs into an updated 1/48 toy... How can you possibly have that discussion without talking about what works and what doesn't work?

Technically, that's very easy to do without adding the "this is better than that". Also, as for the 1/48s and 1/60s, there isn't anything that doesn't work. Some things for both may not look perfect, but it all works.

[eugimon]

Technically, that's very easy to do without adding the "this is better than that". Also, as for the 1/48s and 1/60s, there isn't anything that doesn't work. Some things for both may not look perfect, but it all works.

By stating a preference you're already inferring a value judgement. I'm sorry if the idea of people calmly debating what they like and why bothers you that much.

[tank]

I'm sure Yamato can add a ton more detail with a redesigned sculpt and better overall proportions, especially in the larger 1/48 scale. The real question is will they do it.

Last I remember, Graham stated, Yamato wanted to continue doing everything in 1/60 scale to have a cohesive toyline.

Oh well, here's to hoping and praying that one day it will be done.

Yeah dude still hoping yamato gets their hands on the 1/48's since its a bigger toy imagine a re-design and loads of gimmicks yamato can still add to the 1/48's, like what they did to the patlabor line was very cool.

[Shaorin]

Is the head in the right spot? No. It's a flaw. If it makes you feel better we can call it a "flawed design choice"

Actually, it IS in the right spot. for the reasons illustrated in my posts above.

thats why it should be 1/32 or 1/18 scale. lol. At 1/18 we can have articulated pilots.

plus a $2000.00USD per copy list price!! BONUS!!

Edited February 3, 2011 by Shaorin

[Jasonc]

By stating a preference you're already inferring a value judgement. I'm sorry if the idea of people calmly debating what they like and why bothers you that much.

I didn't say it bothered me, but you did ask how one can have a conversation without talking about what works and what doesn't. I merely pointed out that it's quite possible and easy without turning into, as I put it earlier "a bitchfest". I would hope you know the difference, but since you asked the question, I guess you wouldn't. I'm just saying that the fixes that people would want to see and whatnot can be noted, and can stay on topic without the thread turning into a debate of 1/48s vs. 1/60s.

[Shaorin]

In any case, when you look at how long the neck is on the hi-metal and how shallow the chest depression is, the actual placement of the head isn't really any better than on the v2, and is still far off model compared to the line art as shown in your own review:

it CAN'T HELP but be "off-model" from the line-art.

as stated before, the line-art CLEARLY DOES NOT take into account that the BATTROID it depicts actually TRANSFORMS into

a sleek fighter aircraft.

if anything, the line-art is off-model, -WAY OFF MODEL- from what it should be depicting the VF-1 BATTROID to look like.

as stated before, there is too much stylization overall. too much that suggests that the BATTROID depicted there

cannot and does not transform in any way without prodigious quantities of Anime Magic in it's service.

jeez, guys, just take a serious look at this original BATTROID art and tell me that it could transform into a fighter jet;

well? it cant, can it? OF COURSE NOT!! everything's WAY THE H&%L OFF MODEL of what would be required to make it do so.

the art is fine for selling one on the basic design concept, but that is all it's good for.

the 1/60v.II is a three-dimensional representation of EXACTLY what any serious engineering team would produce as a finished product

from the concepts illustrated in that art up above.

thus, i assert that the original line-art should NOT be held as the ideal final model to judge all others by,

as it is nothing more than mere loose conceptual art, meant to convey the general overall thrust of the design concept

presented by the original designer...

Edited February 3, 2011 by Shaorin

[ae_productions]

Either or...now that I have both, a valk is a valk. I like the 1/48 more due to preferences, not because the design, but because I value it more because I started my macross collection with the 1/48, well seriously that is. I did have the v1 1/60 but sold all of them and ekpt the vt and ve. After seing the 1/60 v2 i can see why a lot of people prefer it. This thread i believe was to inquire if Yamato would make a v2 1/48 not to see which shlong is longer or better. If yamato makes more 1/48 sure i buy more, if not that's fine. We'll make our own =) considering that Yamato released a new version of roy and hikaru with new box design prompted me to get them. LOL

It has been stated before...

I just wish they'd finish the first 1:48 line.

The 1:60 v2 are not superior as stated above. That's an empty blanket statement and, honestly, it all boils down to opinion and personal preference. Both valks have both pros and cons.

I think exo is onto something with the 1:18 valks except...where you put them? My 1:48's take up too much room as is!

[Renato]

it CAN'T HELP but be "off-model" from the line-art.

as stated before, the line-art CLEARLY DOES NOT take into account that the BATTROID it depicts actually TRANSFORMS into

a sleek fighter aircraft.

if anything, the line-art is off-model, -WAY OFF MODEL- from what it should be depicting the VF-1 BATTROID to look like.

as stated before, there is too much stylization overall. too much that suggests that the BATTROID depicted there

cannot and does not transform in any way without prodigious quantities of Anime Magic in it's service.

jeez, guys, just take a serious look at this original BATTROID art and tell me that it could transform into a fighter jet;

well? it cant, can it? OF COURSE NOT!! everything's WAY THE H&%L OFF MODEL of what would be required to make it do so.

the art is fine for selling one on the basic design concept, but that is all it's good for.

the 1/60v.II is a three-dimensional representation of EXACTLY what any serious engineering team would produce as a finished product

from the concepts illustrated in that art up above.

thus, i assert that the original line-art should NOT be held as the ideal final model to judge all others by,

as it is nothing more than mere loose conceptual art, meant to convey the general overall thrust of the design concept

presented by the original designer...

You know, by this logic, toy companies should not be striving to make lineart-accurate toys at all. Why even bother going any further than the 1/55?

This:

and this:

are "off-model" because that robot obviously cannot transform into that cannon thing, and that makes THIS: is the most accurate, realistic interpretation of the Decepticon Galvatron.

That said, I just like the way the 1/48 looks in all modes, but not so much the 1/60.

[nightmareB4macross]

Yeah dude still hoping yamato gets their hands on the 1/48's since its a bigger toy imagine a re-design and loads of gimmicks yamato can still add to the 1/48's, like what they did to the patlabor line was very cool.

If only they could add more gimmicks with little compromise that would be fantastic.

Yamato could rework the 1/48 VF-1 and just need to rework the "low" slung arms in fighter mode, swing bar, and increase poseability at the hips and shoulders.

Not really to much to do.

After that, they could add more goodies to mix.

[jenius]

I was tinkering around with designing a larger scale VF-1 toy (just for kicks) and I think there are a ton of things that can be done at 1/48 that would make the V2 look like a stepping stone (although I was imagining 1/32 so who knows how feasible some design elements would be).

[nightmareB4macross]

I was tinkering around with designing a larger scale VF-1 toy (just for kicks) and I think there are a ton of things that can be done at 1/48 that would make the V2 look like a stepping stone (although I was imagining 1/32 so who knows how feasible some design elements would be).

Got anything you could post? Might give lurking eyes (we know you read this Yamato) an idea for the next VF-1 re-work.

Edited February 3, 2011 by nightmareB4macross

[claude grant]

That said, I just like the way the 1/48 looks in all modes, but not so much the 1/60.

cosign/ditto

Edited February 4, 2011 by claude grant

[jenius]

Got anything you could post? Might give lurking eyes (we know you read this Yamato) an idea for the next VF-1 re-work.

I would... except I'm not much of an artist and I'm afraid the doodles that make perfect sense to me would likely just confuse anyone else. One day when work isn't so insane I'll try to make the ideas presentable.

Edited February 4, 2011 by jenius

[Arthurius]

i cant believe this thread is still going on!!!! I mean, i only have 1/48th vf-1, so i cant go back, but alot of people switched to 1/60th already, would they really re-switch back to 1/48th which will be more expensive and thus harder to complete the set? Pll wanted same scale and have more valks in limited space, so not sure enough pll will do thi. Would it really be worthwhile for Yamato to do these? If they made the 1/48th of the missing valks, sure that would be great for me, and the ones who still kept their valks, but I know Yamato will charge ++200$ just cause they need to redesign the whole thing, and cause of the risks involved.

[Shaorin]

exactly. i doubt a 1/48v.II will ever happen. not with the market saturated as it is.

the only feasible way that i might see it is as a special limited edition, centering

around the two, perhaps maybe the four most popular "guaranteed seller" VF-1 variants.

at any rate, however, i feel it would be a rather risky move for YAMATO...

Edited February 4, 2011 by Shaorin

[nightmareB4macross]

exactly. i doubt a 1/48v.II will ever happen. not with the market saturated as it is.

the only feasible way that i might see it is as a special limited edition, centering

around the two, perhaps maybe the four most popular "guaranteed seller" VF-1 variants.

at any rate, however, i feel it would be a rather risky move for YAMATO...

You might be right about a 1/48 V.2 ever seeing the light of day, but never underestimate the will of people to buy something they already have, only newer and better. Before you post, please read on.

The best example is what has already happened. A lot of fans bought the 1/60 v.1 (sold off or kept part of them), then moved onto the 1/48 (then sold off or kept the 1/60 v.1 and 1/48), and then moved onto the 1/60 v.2.

History could repeat itself, wether we like it or not.

Now the question is...When?

[Raptor One]

The Hi Metal does one or two things right in the palm of your hand... it's tiny. Despite being so tiny it manages to sink the head in lower in fighter mode AND battroid mode and it's handles the backpack better (especially in fighter mode). Again, not a fair comparison since it doesn't have to stow a heat shield or landing gears but pretty impressive just the same. Sure, it has lots of other flaws, and even it doesn't nail the head position perfect (it cheats it up a bit but no where near as bad as the V2).

I'm just curious as to why you say the Hi-Metal does the backpack better?

[anime52k8]

You might be right about a 1/48 V.2 ever seeing the light of day, but never underestimate the will of people to buy something they already have, only newer and better. Before you post, please read on.

The best example is what has already happened. A lot of fans bought the 1/60 v.1 (sold off or kept part of them), then moved onto the 1/48 (then sold off or kept the 1/60 v.1 and 1/48), and then moved onto the 1/60 v.2.

History could repeat itself, wether we like it or not.

Now the question is...When?

In both those cases, It's more than just people wanting a slightly newer, better version. In going from the 1/60 v.1 to the 1/48, They went from a deeply flawed toy to a toy that was bigger, better, and completely different from not only the previous yamato release but every toy that had been release up to that point. As for the 1/60 v.2; while it did have improvements over the existing 1/48, it's real strength was that it was in scale with the growing number of other excellent toys that Yamato was producing. Also it offered a comparably cheaper buy.

If a 1/48 where to be released as just an up-scaled 1/60 v.2 (as some have suggested) I don't see it selling very well. If the 1/48 v.2 where to be an amazing improvement over every previous VF-1 released, the price would most likely be exceptionally high which would in turn drive down sales, possibly to the point that it wouldn't be worth it.

I'm not saying that nobody would buy a 1/48 v.2 or that there's no chance it would sell well. I just think that the chances of it doing poorly are pretty high, and I doubt Yamato would take that risk any time soon.

[jenius]

I'm just curious as to why you say the Hi-Metal does the backpack better?

I'm at work so I can't reference anymoon.com but I have a pic of the fighter profiles in my Hi-Metal review. Both the Yamato and Hi-Metal do great jobs emulating the line art. The Yamato looks crisper overall with its very tight tolerances but the Hi-Metal does a better job getting what becomes the backpack in the right place. I love the comparison pic, you can see lots of little things each toy does right and wrong. The Hi Metal does the backpack better in battroid because it doesn't chip the paint off the tail fins!

I agree that a scaled up 1/60V2 to be a 1/48V2 would be a terrible decision that wouldn't sell well at all. If Yamato were to do a 1/48V2 it better bring a whole lot of new tricks to the table that the increased scale allow (like integrated intake covers, even greater articulation, better detail, etc.).

[Raptor One]

I was looking at that earlier today actually. I prefer how the Yamato does the backpack in fighter personally. The legs of the Hi-Metal connect to the Backpack at too low a point. I also dislike the angle of the gunpod on the Hi-Metal.

But I really like the shape of the bottom of the nose of the Hi-Metal. Lol it's kind of annoying that each toy has these little things it does right and wrong, I wish I could just swap some of the design decisions of the Yamato onto the Hi-Metal and vice versa.

Hmm, maybe this new 1/48 line isn't such a bad idea lol

Edited February 5, 2011 by Raptor One

[alchemo]

What I heard from a store owner is that the 1/48 2.0 is now under consideration and is quite possible. price-wise I don't thing it would be cheap but it should not be as crazy as the SDF-1 either as the design would be used in many variations and thus reduse its cost.

[ae_productions]

What I heard from a store owner is that the 1/48 2.0 is now under consideration and is quite possible. price-wise I don't thing it would be cheap but it should not be as crazy as the SDF-1 either as the design would be used in many variations and thus reduse its cost.

If Yamato kept the cost down, I can see a v2 1:48 doing well. Why not? When I head they were doing ANOTHER 1:60 line of VF-1's, I thought it was absurd and would flop. I was way off the mark there! I am a 1:48 fan and was reluctant on the v2 1:60's myself. But there were enough new gimmicks-and a few fighters that never made it to the 1:48 scale that got me to switch over. So, now I have a few v1 1:60's, a few v2 1:60's and a plethora of 1:48's. Hell, I even have a few 1:55's!

I know I'm not alone with some of this. I mean, if money was no object, I'd have a lot more, of course. But even with money being the way it is now, I am still buying duplicates of the VF-1 in various scales.

Of course, I am biased and would love a v2 1:48. Or even a 1:35! But the price tag would be the end of me.

[505thAirborne]

If there is to be a new 1/48 scale VF-1 line of toys to be made, I'd be happy if Yamato just picked up where they left off by making a VF-1D, VE-1, VT-1 and TV version VF-1A-1J's! The Virgin Road I could live without but why not milk the molds. What the hell, reissue the VF-1A Low-Vis 1.

And yes, new improved hands for the gunpod would be great. Otherwise the 1/48 is damn awesome all the way around.

[ae_productions]

If there is to be a new 1/48 scale VF-1 line of toys to be made, I'd be happy if Yamato just picked up where they left off by making a VF-1D, VE-1, VT-1 and TV version VF-1A-1J's! The Virgin Road I could live without but why not milk the molds. What the hell, reissue the VF-1A Low-Vis 1.

And yes, new improved hands for the gunpod would be great. Otherwise the 1/48 is damn awesome all the way around.

Oh, yes! I always forget about the 1:48 "chicken fingers!" The first thing I do when I get a new 1:48 is take off those horrid hands! :lol:

[Reïvaj]

Oh, yes! I always forget about the 1:48 "chicken fingers!" The first thing I do when I get a new 1:48 is take off those horrid hands! :lol:

Yeah, I guess that if Yamato does make V.2 1/48 that would probably be one of the first things they would change.

[reddsun1]

thats why it should be 1/32 or 1/18 scale. lol. At 1/18 we can have articulated pilots.

Yes, thank you. 1/18 scale, dammit!

But fix the canopy. The cockpit canopy on the 1/48 is too damn big.

[Shaorin]

Yes, thank you. 1/18 scale, dammit!

But fix the canopy. The cockpit canopy on the 1/48 is too damn big.

and the entire canopy/nosecone module along with it.

the underline of the 1/60v.II has a very gentle, subtle curvature,which,

IMO, is perfection itself, and far preferable the 1/48's radically exaggerated one...

[vlenhoff]

Yes out of context, but.... HLJ is selling new versions of the 1/48 Roy & Hikkkie VF-1S. Are they just re-packaged, or are they tampo printed? Not buying one, just wondering...

I wish I got the weathered versions

thanks in advance

[alchemo]

Yes out of context, but.... HLJ is selling new versions of the 1/48 Roy & Hikkkie VF-1S. Are they just re-packaged, or are they tampo printed? Not buying one, just wondering...

I wish I got the weathered versions

thanks in advance

Those are only repackaging of the same old 1/48 Valks. stickers needed still.