ATTN: CUSTOMIZERS

[Renato]

Sometimes, I think Japan is just trying to destroy itself.

Two hobbyists were ARRESTED on charges of copyright violation for making and selling customized Kamen Rider action figures:

http://ridersrangersandrambles.com/?p=3461

The "Evidence":

http://yahooauctionwatch.livedoor.biz/archives/51700987.html

(Note the "before" and "after" photos. These are REALLY well done, and I have no interest in Kamen Rider, just so you know!)

Japan, what the hell? Have you become so anal that you throw customs into the same boat as bootlegs? Are you trying to kill your entire hobby-oriented subculture -- which, by the way, is your last and final, be-all-and-end-all chance at any attempt of export, cultural or otherwise, now that Toyota royally screwed up and electronics are being taken over by LG, Samsung and Apple -- or do you just not realize the already-chronic suffocation of your society?

I swear, there's lots of people here with creativity oozing from their every pore, but no outlet to perform in and be appreciated, even without RIDICULOUS stunts like these.

Dear, oh dear. Honestly, I don't know WHAT else to say, the whole situation is ludicrous.

EDIT - Obviously it's not "JAPAN" that is to blame, but rather Toei, and not ALL copyright holders are evil, yes, I know. Still, it was shocking news which provoked a harsh response from me. I seriously would NOT like to be the guys arrested. Can you imagine how they felt? Their crime was they loved a character too much!

Edited January 28, 2011 by Renato

[Negotiator]

Those customs are badass. So now they don't own the toys they buy anymore. Just like software. Are there no other "crimes" in Japan to worry about? You're right, "ludicrous" best sums this up.

edit: ok, not all of japan. Seriously Toei????

Edited January 28, 2011 by Negotiator

[EXO]

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll have plenty of time for customs.

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll learn the real meaning of kaMEN riders.

[reddsun1]

I suppose it's their re-selling for (potential) profit that's the issue? Perhaps if they were to "give" them away to a "friend," who was in turn so grateful that they were to just loan them some money or other form of gift at a later date, then it wouldn't be a legal issue? If that were to be the case, then they could stand up in court and tell Toei to kiss their entire arse(s).

[Jasonc]

I suppose it's their re-selling for (potential) profit that's the issue? Perhaps if they were to "give" them away to a "friend," who was in turn so grateful that they were to just loan them some money or other form of gift at a later date, then it wouldn't be a legal issue? If that were to be the case, then they could stand up in court and tell Toei to kiss their entire arse(s).

If re-selling for a profit was an issue, then collectors would be jailed too, for buying stuff as a collector, then reselling it to make a buck off of the merchandise. Perhaps it's more the advertising of Toei's product, and was not listed as such, but as their own created piece? I don't know, but still, if it happened in this country, I'd counter sue for wrongful imprisonment.

[eugimon]

The US went through this a few years back with companies like Ford going after third party manufacturers, clubs, pretty much anyone who used their logo without licensing it first.

Then they realized they were alienating what few loyal customers they had left... But yeah, it's a pretty reactionary and short sighted thing to do. Makes me wonder if it's just another example of a bored lawyer looking for something to do rather than actual corporate strategy.

[Scream Man]

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll have plenty of time for customs.

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll learn the real meaning of kaMEN riders.

YYYYEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

If the customs police ever came for me I'd be so screwed....

[one_klump]

I don't even like Kamen Rider, but those customs are amazing.

[Godzilla]

All you customizers, run like hell. Seriously how messed up is this? It is your toy and you decide to make it look better. But you decide you want to sell it for some profit as you put the time and effort into it. So they call it a copyright enfringement? I guess they threw common sense out the door.

[azrael]

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll have plenty of time for customs.

Where they're going... *removes sunglasses* they'll learn the real meaning of kaMEN riders.

Shouldn't you be putting on your sunglasses?

[EXO]

Shouldn't you be putting on your sunglasses?

Oh whoops. Don't really watch the show...

IMO customizers are great for the business. They make people buy doubles of the same item and it creates a whole new market. Look at the third party market for Transformers toys. Hasbro doesn't really go after it and it remains one of the strongest toy franchises around. Even if it's a custom of a product that they plan to release in the future, it doesn't detract collectors from the official item. A lot of us made Hikaru VF-1Ss out of our 1:48 1S Roys and 1A Hikarus. Even in the Masters of the Universe line, people buy customs of official characters knowing full well that they'll get the real thing when it's released. I'm all for customs and third party and people turning a profit from them. But if a company doesn't want others getting into the action then kill the market by making them yourselves. Yamato did it by releasing custom schemes and less popular VFs. Stifling art that doesn't harm any one is never good for any culture.

[Mog]

Toei is rather dumb in pursuing this.

Folks sell their customs on Ebay all the time! Like the article said, they ain't mass-producing these customs.

You don't see Lucasfilm going after Star Wars customizers. Or Hasbro going after customizers of G.I. Joes, Transformers, or Marvel superhero figures. I'm sure these companies don't mind people picking up extra figures for custom fodder. You think they get upset if people are only buying their also-ran figures because of their great customizing potential? It's still a sale for them!

Hell, you don't see Yamato coming onto our boards and telling us to stop making customs or panel-lining our birds.

[Ghost Train]

I hope Bandai doesn't get any ideas from this, otherwise they will need to buy some huge facilities to house all intellectual property criminals, enemies of the state, and other undesireables.

[Vifam7]

Not to defend Toei but there may have been other extenuating circumstances as to why these particular customizers were arrested. For example, it seems like the characters that the customizers made are of Toei property. So while the guys have the right to make customizations they don't quite have the right to sell the characters. Another thing that might have gotten the guys in trouble was that the modded toys were sold (according to the 2nd link) at the extraordinarily high prices. The 1st one on the link sold at 269,001 JPY. That's over $3000 USD. Now I know customs like this are truly special but selling a modified toy to earn $3000 is sure to draw attention.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Vifam7

[mechaninac]

I don't see how the sale price of a custom is relevant to the issue at all; it may be an attention getter, but it has no bearing on any sane legal argument claiming copyright infringement: selling a custom is selling a custom, at a profit or a loss.

If I buy a physical property, regardless what the item may be, it is mine and I'm free to alter it in any way I see fit; and if I decide to sell it at a profit, that's my business. In a free market everybody benefits: the manufacturer gets to sell its products, an enterprising customizer gets to create and sell improved versions of the original, and the collector gets to purchase whatever he/she wants... everyone wins.

Toei and its legal team are just being a bunch of overbearing, shortsighted, asses in wanting to make examples of these guys.

[Gui]

[...] Another thing that might have gotten the guys in trouble was that the modded toys were sold (according to the 2nd link) at the extraordinarily high prices. The 1st one on the link sold at 269,001 JPY. That's over $3000 USD. Now I know customs like this are truly special but selling a modified toy to earn $3000 is sure to draw attention.

At least, this guy will have what he'll need to get a very good lawyer...

Still, what a waste of effort.

[Vifam7]

I don't see how the sale price of a custom is relevant to the issue at all; it may be an attention getter, but it has no bearing on any sane legal argument claiming copyright infringement: selling a custom is selling a custom, at a profit or a loss.

If I buy a physical property, regardless what the item may be, it is mine and I'm free to alter it in any way I see fit; and if I decide to sell it at a profit, that's my business.

Not necessarily. You can sell mods but you might not have the right to sell the characters. Look at this way - if you were to mod Yamato's 1/60 Valkyries to make your own Sound Force customs and started regularly selling them to huge profits without Big West or Kawamori's approval, there is a chance they'd come after you. Because while you can sell modded Valks, you can not sell Sound Force.

Also, you can get away with selling a few but once it starts to become a profit making business, that's when the rights holders tend to send the lawyers.

[Snail00]

love the CSI Miami Parody

:D

In regards to this. Rather silly. Add this to the dumb things Japan is doing lately on top of eradicating any anime with violence and T&A shots. Heaven for bid that I might get in trouble for selling my wife's used LV bag on ebay. Jeez. So what do I own then??

[anime52k8]

So what do I own then??

Nothing, the state owns you.

[Ghost Train]

love the CSI Miami Parody

:D

In regards to this. Rather silly. Add this to the dumb things Japan is doing lately on top of eradicating any anime with violence and T&A shots. Heaven for bid that I might get in trouble for selling my wife's used LV bag on ebay. Jeez. So what do I own then??

This year in typical Asian style, I'm going to get a huge f'ing LV tatoo on my back - to go with my LV sandals, my LV keychain, and my LV toilet paper.

[BeyondTheGrave]

They might be mad b/c theirs doesn't look as good.

also do the csi miami right:

[Ghost Train]

(Further thread derailment)

LOL I love how the "video software" in CSI can magnify and enhance almost anything ! GIGO principal need not apply!

[Greyryder]

Makes me glad I mostly only do customs of my own original characters. I may do the occasional GI Joe or Transformer custom, luckily Hasbro aren't dicks.

(Further thread derailment)

LOL I love how the "video software" in CSI can magnify and enhance almost anything ! GIGO principal need not apply!

"That's all the resolution we have, sir. Zoom just makes the pixels bigger."

"Not on CSI Miami!"

[Scream Man]

Shouldn't you be putting on your sunglasses?

he does it both ways.

CSI miami is the best cartoon on TV

[anime52k8]

(Further thread derailment)

LOL I love how the "video software" in CSI can magnify and enhance almost anything ! GIGO principal need not apply!

CSI = Bastion of technical accuracy and realism.

Edited January 30, 2011 by anime52k8

[eugimon]

Makes me glad I mostly only do customs of my own original characters. I may do the occasional GI Joe or Transformer custom, luckily Hasbro aren't dicks.

"That's all the resolution we have, sir. Zoom just makes the pixels bigger."

"Not on CSI Miami!"

[Renato]

Not necessarily. You can sell mods but you might not have the right to sell the characters. Look at this way - if you were to mod Yamato's 1/60 Valkyries to make your own Sound Force customs and started regularly selling them to huge profits without Big West or Kawamori's approval, there is a chance they'd come after you. Because while you can sell modded Valks, you can not sell Sound Force.

Also, you can get away with selling a few but once it starts to become a profit making business, that's when the rights holders tend to send the lawyers.

Vifam7, you're right: this is pretty much on the nose as far as Toei's thoughts on that matter go. It is in their best interests to protect their IP, and they see the representations of these characters in the same light that Bandai sees this:

And Disney (and Sanrio et al) sees this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V68HiXdwwvs

However, I think immediate legal action is going too far, and can even stifle interest in the hobby. So Hobby Japan is allowed to feature the new redesign of the VF-1J from MACROSS THE FIRST, custom made from a standard Wave TV-series 1J, but heaven forbid you should follow that and build it yourself in any way other than the box and instructions illustrate, lest BigWest and/or Kadokawa come after you in the night? Let's get real here, that sounds ridiculous no matter how you look at it. I think Toei just wanted to make it clear that they are the owners of the character IP, to act as a warning to "bootleggers", but they are failing to see the big picture: that without strong love for these characters, these things are all worthless. They wouldn't have bothered making the customs, and they wouldn't have sold for as much as they did. Toei should be grateful that their creations are loved as much as they are, before their fanbase turns on them (see entry under "Harmony Gold").

EDIT-- I tried to embed video from Youtube and failed. Goddamn everything ever.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Renato

[azrael]

Apparently, most of the links went dead so I can't actually review in detail what went down. But yes, there may have been extenuating circumstances which brought about their arrest.

[Vifam7]

Vifam7, you're right: this is pretty much on the nose as far as Toei's thoughts on that matter go. It is in their best interests to protect their IP, and they see the representations of these characters in the same light that Bandai sees this:

And Disney (and Sanrio et al) sees this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V68HiXdwwvs

However, I think immediate legal action is going too far, and can even stifle interest in the hobby. So Hobby Japan is allowed to feature the new redesign of the VF-1J from MACROSS THE FIRST, custom made from a standard Wave TV-series 1J, but heaven forbid you should follow that and build it yourself in any way other than the box and instructions illustrate, lest BigWest and/or Kadokawa come after you in the night?

The problem is not in the building or modding part. It's the selling/profiteering part and the volume of it that usually get companies to come after you.

You have every right to build and mod a Wave VF-1J kit in any way you want. However, once you start selling the built and modded kits, yes Big West can potentially come after you IF Big West thinks you're profiteering too much from the Macross First property.

Let's get real here, that sounds ridiculous no matter how you look at it. I think Toei just wanted to make it clear that they are the owners of the character IP, to act as a warning to "bootleggers", but they are failing to see the big picture: that without strong love for these characters, these things are all worthless. They wouldn't have bothered making the customs, and they wouldn't have sold for as much as they did. Toei should be grateful that their creations are loved as much as they are, before their fanbase turns on them (see entry under "Harmony Gold").

I think most of the time, Japanese companies do tend to look the other way in regards to fan-made items. I mean look at the massive doujinshi market. I don't know where the theshold line is but obviously there comes a point where the rights holder decides a fan has gone too far with their property (particularly in terms of profiteering from it).

[anime52k8]

I love castle so much.

[Peabody]

I can understand this, I mean the site is like a business, using Kamen Rider logos and scripts. Obviously its more than one or two customs sold on, its a business in direct competition with official high end KR toys and TOEI have a legitimate complaint. If you don`t think their case has any legitamacy at all then I think you should move to Communist China, you would be at home there.

[taksraven]

CSI = Bastion of technical accuracy and realism.

LOL!!

Edited January 30, 2011 by taksraven

[Ghost Train]

I can understand this, I mean the site is like a business, using Kamen Rider logos and scripts. Obviously its more than one or two customs sold on, its a business in direct competition with official high end KR toys and TOEI have a legitimate complaint. If you don`t think their case has any legitamacy at all then I think you should move to Communist China, you would be at home there.

You know that China does not really have a communist economy right?

[eugimon]

You know that China does not really have a communist economy right?

Don't worry, no one in America even knows what "communist" or "socialist" means, it's just something they throw around, like when they say "democracy".

[rotorhead]

that's awful fascist of you, eugimon!

*goes to look up the meaning of fascist again and gets distracted by a yet another new reality tv series* oooo.... was that a mark burnett noise?

Edited January 30, 2011 by rotorhead