The computer and electronics super geek thread

[Test_Pilot_2]

On 11/5/2024 at 6:26 PM, Test_Pilot_2 said:

So I built an external GPU to work with my ROG Ally X and I think it came out pretty awesome....

Box moves between my office (3440x1440), home theater (1920x1080), and living room (4k). Performance has been stellar with the office sitting at 70-90 FPS ultra, home theater at 140+ FPS ultra, and living room between 30-60 FPS ultra. Temps are always great even at load. Drivers were a pain at first, but that was due to a bad PCIE extension cable and a PCIE cable to the GPU that wasn't fully seated. Had to tweak the case a hair, but the PCIE board sits nice and flat in the base of the enclosure.

For specific games:
Plague Tale Requiem: Running 4K Ultra across the board getting 45-60 FPS.
Space Marines 2: Running 4K Ultra across the board getting 35-45 FPS.
Dying Light Stay Human: Running 4K Ultra across the board getting 35-60FPS.
Starfield: Running 4K Ultra in the busiest cities and getting 30-60FPS.

Going to the office and projector - runs even better... On the projector I can get stupid and turn on Raytracing and the FPS are still great.

Enclosure:
Mechanicmaster IF-11 (90 Bucks Open Box)

Dock/Board 1:
Aliexpress v1.6 UT3G @ $130

Dock/Board 2:
Dock for peripherals and power

GPU:
Reference AMD RX7900 XT (Got it for $569 refurbished)

PSU:
Corsair SF850L (Refurb for 90 bucks)

Air Cooling:
Silverstone Shark Force 160 Intake Attached Magnetically to the Case
2 x Arctice P12s Exhausting Out the Top

Fan Controller:
Fan Controller I Snagged for 10 Bucks

L-Shaped Thunderbolt 4 Cable:
TBolt 4 Cable Built Like a Tank

Odds and Ends:
3D Printed I/O Cover
Tiny, Adhesive Rare Earth Magnets for the Fan
Replacing all the PSU cables with sleeved ones soon... The ones that came with the PSU are, well, awful.
Some decals to pimp the exterior of the case.

Delightfully, this setup was put together because of STALKER 2. When I saw the system requirements for it initially my heart sank because I was afraid I missed the mark. However, it runs beautifully. I have to use FSR and frame generation, but the game runs awesome with 70-80 FPS, all epic settings, on a 4k TV.

I know not everyone has been having an easy time with STALKER 2 and I hope those issues get resolved so more people can enjoy this fantastic game. It's been years and years waiting on a new STALKER and this one delivers (in good ways and bad ways) the original STALKER experience.

The system requirements aren't really as crazy as listed, but you do need alot of ram to run it.

 

[mikeszekely]

I installed STALKER 2 but I haven't started it yet. I'll be playing at 5120 x 1440, which is a bit fewer pixels than your typical 4K setup.  I think my RTX 4070 should be up to the task, but my i7-9700K is getting a bit long in the tooth.  I'm planning on replacing my PC, but I'm waiting until the RTX 5070 is a reality.

[Test_Pilot_2]

22 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I installed STALKER 2 but I haven't started it yet. I'll be playing at 5120 x 1440, which is a bit fewer pixels than your typical 4K setup.  I think my RTX 4070 should be up to the task, but my i7-9700K is getting a bit long in the tooth.  I'm planning on replacing my PC, but I'm waiting until the RTX 5070 is a reality.

That is really wide! 3 monitors or maybe that Samsung curved ultra wide?

What are you on? I think the 4070 should work well, too, although your mileage may vary. I hope it ultimately works well.

[mikeszekely]

3 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

That is really wide! 3 monitors or maybe that Samsung curved ultra wide?

Yeah, the G9 OLED. I love it, it's the same height as my old monitor but the way it curves into my peripheral vision is so much more immersive, especially in racing games. Turns out to be better than I though for productivity, too... I finally get all those dual monitor people.

[Test_Pilot_2]

40 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Yeah, the G9 OLED. I love it, it's the same height as my old monitor but the way it curves into my peripheral vision is so much more immersive, especially in racing games. Turns out to be better than I though for productivity, too... I finally get all those dual monitor people.

Yeah, that's awesome... It's also like this version of the monitors:

[mikeszekely]

I'm thinking about buying an ROG Ally X during the Black Friday sale.  A part of me thinks it's hard to justify, since I have the regular Z1 Extreme Ally and the X uses the same chip and the same screen.  But there's some real nice quality-of-life improvements... extra RAM leaves enough for the system and the GPU, plus the RAM is faster, you can use full-sized NVME drives, two USB-C ports means I can use my Virture XRs while it's charging without an adapter, and double the battery means I might get through my daughter's two-hour Monday dance classes without needing a battery bank or an outlet.

[Test_Pilot_2]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

I'm thinking about buying an ROG Ally X during the Black Friday sale.  A part of me thinks it's hard to justify, since I have the regular Z1 Extreme Ally and the X uses the same chip and the same screen.  But there's some real nice quality-of-life improvements... extra RAM leaves enough for the system and the GPU, plus the RAM is faster, you can use full-sized NVME drives, two USB-C ports means I can use my Virture XRs while it's charging without an adapter, and double the battery means I might get through my daughter's two-hour Monday dance classes without needing a battery bank or an outlet.

Very much so. The extra 8 gigs of ram is worth it. I also have the Z1 Extreme and turned that into my video pinball machine's PC for Pinball FX... nice and small so it even fits inside the cabinet.

The move off the proprietary adapter is huge, too. I bought the 6850xt gpu for my Ally X and it was crazy expensive. I built that much more powerful egpu for a fraction of that cost.

Although, where we are right now... I would say wait for the next generation of handhelds... word is the new ai-based chips perform much better.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

I'm thinking about buying an ROG Ally X during the Black Friday sale.  A part of me thinks it's hard to justify, since I have the regular Z1 Extreme Ally and the X uses the same chip and the same screen.  But there's some real nice quality-of-life improvements... extra RAM leaves enough for the system and the GPU, plus the RAM is faster, you can use full-sized NVME drives, two USB-C ports means I can use my Virture XRs while it's charging without an adapter, and double the battery means I might get through my daughter's two-hour Monday dance classes without needing a battery bank or an outlet.

Outside of those weekly 2 hours, do you use it in other longer sessions? Or just burst playing when bored? Like you said, it's quality-of-life improvements. Otherwise, it's the same device (same APU, same screen).

Also, how much of a Black Friday deal will it be? The base unit is on sale for $700 right now at Best Buy. If a Black Friday deal can beat that, sure.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

Although, where we are right now... I would say wait for the next generation of handhelds... word is the new ai-based chips perform much better.

Yeah, I don't mind turning stuff down to low settings, or even using 720p, but if I'm going to turn the settings down all the way I'd at least like to hit 60fps.  I think if had confirmation of a release date, specs, and a price I'd be more inclined to wait.

1 hour ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

I also have the Z1 Extreme and turned that into my video pinball machine's PC for Pinball FX... nice and small so it even fits inside the cabinet.

If I buy the X I was thinking I might replace Windows with Batocera.  I'd been thinking about building a Batocera box; I'd already built one on a Beelink mini PC for a buddy, and re-using the Ally instead of buying a similar mini PC helps justify the cost.

36 minutes ago, azrael said:

Outside of those weekly 2 hours, do you use it in other longer sessions? Or just burst playing when bored?

No, the majority of my use is while my kid's at dance.  In addition to Monday, she has another two 45 minute days.  Sometimes I take her to piano classes, too, but usually my wife handles that one.  Other than that, in the summer I'll take her to visit her grandparents.  Sometimes when she gets involved in an activity like baking cookies or something that doesn't really involve me I'll bust it out.  On super rare occasions I might use it to play on the couch if I have free time during the day, but that's rare.  The bulk of my gaming is after she goes to bed on my much more powerful desktop.

36 minutes ago, azrael said:

Also, how much of a Black Friday deal will it be? The base unit is on sale for $700 right now at Best Buy. If a Black Friday deal can beat that, sure.

I was thinking that $700 is the Black Friday deal.

EDIT: Thinking about what @Test_Pilot_2 was saying about the non-proprietary egpu connection... that's actually another good point.  I was already thinking about replacing my desktop sometime next year, after the RTX 5000 series hits, since my 9th-gen i7 is getting a bit old.  A basic enclosure and PSU would allow me to re-use my RTX 4070 and make a Switch-style "dock" if I want to play on my living room TV...🤔

Edited November 25 by mikeszekely

[azrael]

2 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

Although, where we are right now... I would say wait for the next generation of handhelds... word is the new ai-based chips perform much better.

AI hardware is nice and all, but game developers are still a couple of years away from actually taking advantage of said hardware. Much like ray-tracing and DLSS, game developers have to implement the coding on their side. Stuff in production now probably won't use too much AI. Stuff in the pipeline to be released a few years for now will probably be able to use the AI hardware (in something besides frame gen, which is handled by the GPU).

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

I was thinking that $700 is the Black Friday deal.

Probably. The lowest I would expect it to go would be 15% ($694) but that might require patience to get closer to Christmas when retailers drop prices to increase their year-end sales numbers.

[Test_Pilot_2]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

AI hardware is nice and all, but game developers are still a couple of years away from actually taking advantage of said hardware. Much like ray-tracing and DLSS, game developers have to implement the coding on their side. Stuff in production now probably won't use too much AI. Stuff in the pipeline to be released a few years for now will probably be able to use the AI hardware (in something besides frame gen, which is handled by the GPU).

Probably. The lowest I would expect it to go would be 15% ($694) but that might require patience to get closer to Christmas when retailers drop prices to increase their year-end sales numbers.

They're already here though...

https://gamerant.com/ayaneo-teases-latest-flagship-handheld-gaming-device-amd-ai-9-cpu/

AMD's new chips are already hitting the market. The new Deck 2 is signaling a meaningful performance jump on new Nvidia chips.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-ai-365-hx370-gaming-handhelds-outperform-rog-ally-x-with-z1-extreme-by-15-20

6 hours ago, azrael said:

Outside of those weekly 2 hours, do you use it in other longer sessions? Or just burst playing when bored? Like you said, it's quality-of-life improvements. Otherwise, it's the same device (same APU, same screen).

Also, how much of a Black Friday deal will it be? The base unit is on sale for $700 right now at Best Buy. If a Black Friday deal can beat that, sure.

My Allies have quickly replaced all of my other gaming devices, including my gaming PCs... Now that my EGPU enclosure works so well, I can enjoy this performance anywhere... I will never be tied to my desk again.

Playing from a recliner in my living room or from my home theater recliners in the theater > everything else anymore lol.

My current gen consoles collect dust, but I am upgrading my son's pc for grins. We'll see how it goes.

AMD 7600x3d, Asus Mobo, 32 gigs of ram, nvidia 4070 super, phantom 120 cooler, etc. This combo is fantastic right now if you're near a MC and if you're curious about the processor, new reviews have been going out. Stealth-released... this processor is fantastic.

https://www.microcenter.com/product/5006834/amd-ryzen-5-7600x3d,-asus-tuf-gaming-b650-plus-wifi,-gskill-flare-x5-series-32gb-ddr5-6000-kit,-computer-build-bundle

Well, shoot the discount is gone... Back up to 600-ish. Sorry guys =/. It was $400.00 for a long while.

Edited November 25 by Test_Pilot_2

[mikeszekely]

I gave it some thought, and with my other planned 2025 PC upgrades even if a super affordable, way better Z2 Ally 2 comes out I can't see myself buying in until next Black Friday at the earliest.  While none of the Ally X's features are probably enough to sell me on their own (though that battery upgrade is huge), combined they add up to make the Ally X a lot more convenient for me... as huge as the battery is, not needing an extra dongle to use a charger and XR glasses at the same time is also a big plus for me.  More and faster RAM and improved buttons, sticks, and ergonomics is icing on the cake, plus I realized that the screen might actually be an upgrade for me, since I got the original original Ally and apparently it's only rated for 400 nits vs 500 on later models and the X.  I've heard the speakers on the X are better, too.  Using my OG Ally as a dedicated retro gaming platform, a platform I was going to invest in sooner or later anyway, and cashing in some credit card points for a gift card also helps justify/offset the $700 price tag.  I'm biting the bullet.

[Test_Pilot_2]

3 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I gave it some thought, and with my other planned 2025 PC upgrades even if a super affordable, way better Z2 Ally 2 comes out I can't see myself buying in until next Black Friday at the earliest.  While none of the Ally X's features are probably enough to sell me on their own (though that battery upgrade is huge), combined they add up to make the Ally X a lot more convenient for me... as huge as the battery is, not needing an extra dongle to use a charger and XR glasses at the same time is also a big plus for me.  More and faster RAM and improved buttons, sticks, and ergonomics is icing on the cake, plus I realized that the screen might actually be an upgrade for me, since I got the original original Ally and apparently it's only rated for 400 nits vs 500 on later models and the X.  I've heard the speakers on the X are better, too.  Using my OG Ally as a dedicated retro gaming platform, a platform I was going to invest in sooner or later anyway, and cashing in some credit card points for a gift card also helps justify/offset the $700 price tag.  I'm biting the bullet.

I ended up buying another Ally X for my other son - one got the desktop upgrade, the other got a handheld upgrade. He bought Space Marine 2 and tried it on his Steam Deck and it was just awful... The Ally X runs it much better. I'm also building him an EGPU with the spare parts from his brother's build. So win-win. I just wanted to be fully transparent as I think next year will be transformative for these handheld PCs. My Ally X also replaced my personal laptop I travel with when I'm on TDY.

[mikeszekely]

9 minutes ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

My Ally X also replaced my personal laptop I travel with when I'm on TDY.

Also easier to do since you can plug in an external monitor and power without a dongle.😉

Partly since COVID, partly since my daughter's getting older and more involved with activities and it's just harder to make time for it, but I don't really travel that much anymore, so I'm not super concerned with having a good laptop or whether I'd prefer it or an Ally when I travel (but I'm not lugging a laptop, even a small one like my currently Zephyrus G14, to a dance class).  But I definitely don't want/need it to replace my desktop for gaming.  I've gotten to a point where I actually prefer not to couch game on the living room TV- I prefer the solitude of gaming after everyone else goes to bed on a 32:9 OLED, and I still prefer a mouse and keyboard for a lot of games anyway.

14 minutes ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

I just wanted to be fully transparent as I think next year will be transformative for these handheld PCs.

I'm not sure if everything I think is happening will happen entirely in 2025, but yeah, it's going to get a lot better with better chipsets, better upscaling, and better Windows support.  But I think my priority for 2025 is a better desktop with at least an RTX 5070.

[azrael]

8 hours ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

They're already here though...

Yes I know. They came out back in August/September. Besides the performance and efficiency improvements, the main selling point was the AI features (it's in the name), which don't have a true definitive benchmark test nor have feature that's taking advantage of it at the moment.

3 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

way better Z2 Ally 2 comes out I can't see myself buying in until next Black Friday at the earliest. 

I don't see an upgrade to the Ally X coming out before Spring 2025. Unless Asus wants to sunset the the original Ally ASAP. Maybe in 2026. Compute-wise, there isn't any real generational leap in the forecast.

 

3 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I'm not sure if everything I think is happening will happen entirely in 2025, but yeah, it's going to get a lot better with better chipsets, better upscaling, and better Windows support. 

Me neither. Which is, honestly, to be expected. Right now, we need software to play catch-up. It will be transformative in that AI workloads may finally see some fruition in everyday compute but hardware? Probably not except for generational uplifts. Nothing revolutionary. Only evolutionary.

[mikeszekely]

So I said I was biting the bullet, and I did.  Sorry I didn't report back sooner.  It's pretty much exactly as expected... marginal improvements, but nothing amazing; if you couldn't run the game well on an Ally plugged into the wall an Ally X probably isn't running it either.  That said, some of those minor bumps do help.  Like, I can actually take advantage of the 120hz display on a few games now.  But the extended battery life is absolutely worth the upgrade, at least in my particular use case.  At the 15w "performance" power profile on the original Ally I'd fall a little short of getting through my daughter's two-hour dance classes, forcing me to bring a power brick and hope to sit near an outlet in the waiting room or hope to get a playable 30fps at 10w.  On the Ally X at 17w we're leaving and I've still got around 50% left.  It makes the Ally X feel truly portable in a way the original Ally didn't quite live up to.

The other main advantage for me is that there's two USB-C ports on the top now.  It's a minor thing, but it does allow me to plug the Ally X in while I use the Asus 15" portable monitor I have kicking around, or more importantly, my Viture XR glasses.

Speaking of, I had the Viture One XR glasses.  They're basically like sunglasses with thick frames that have mirrors and little OLED displays.  You plug them into a laptop or phone or whatever and it projects a virtual screen in your field of view.  They've been a great match with the Ally- a virtual 1080p, 60hz, 120" display is a lot easier for my old eyes to see than the 7" display on the Ally itself, and I like that I can use for more privacy when I'm out and about.  I like them enough that I offered to get a pair for my wife.  Her response was that I should upgrade and she'd just use my old ones, so yeah, I bought the Viture Pro XR glasses.

Honestly, I wasn't sure I needed the upgrade.  They're still 1080p, but they upped the refresh rate to 120hz, and they increased the FOV so the virtual screen is 135".  So far, nice-to-haves, but nothing earth-shattering.  The display is brighter, but I thought the One XRs were bright enough.  They also improved the electrochromatic lenses so that they get much darker, but the One XRs already had a clip-on cover if you needed to block out more light.

Then I got the Pro XRs in hand.  And I was right about one thing... I don't really notice a huge difference on the screen size.  But the rest is apparently a bigger deal than I thought.  It's not just brighter, it's noticeably brighter.  Combined with the darker lenses you definitely don't have to worry about seeing through the virtual screen, even in a bright environment.  But best of all, whatever they did to increase the FOV fixed the single biggest issue I had with the One XRs- blurry corners.  The entire virtual screen is nice and crisp.  The Pro XRs aren't cheap, but if you game on the go I'd say they're a must-have accessory for the ROG Ally/Ally X/Steam Deck.

[Test_Pilot_2]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

So I said I was biting the bullet, and I did.  Sorry I didn't report back sooner.  It's pretty much exactly as expected... marginal improvements, but nothing amazing; if you couldn't run the game well on an Ally plugged into the wall an Ally X probably isn't running it either.  That said, some of those minor bumps do help.  Like, I can actually take advantage of the 120hz display on a few games now.  But the extended battery life is absolutely worth the upgrade, at least in my particular use case.  At the 15w "performance" power profile on the original Ally I'd fall a little short of getting through my daughter's two-hour dance classes, forcing me to bring a power brick and hope to sit near an outlet in the waiting room or hope to get a playable 30fps at 10w.  On the Ally X at 17w we're leaving and I've still got around 50% left.  It makes the Ally X feel truly portable in a way the original Ally didn't quite live up to.

The other main advantage for me is that there's two USB-C ports on the top now.  It's a minor thing, but it does allow me to plug the Ally X in while I use the Asus 15" portable monitor I have kicking around, or more importantly, my Viture XR glasses.

Speaking of, I had the Viture One XR glasses.  They're basically like sunglasses with thick frames that have mirrors and little OLED displays.  You plug them into a laptop or phone or whatever and it projects a virtual screen in your field of view.  They've been a great match with the Ally- a virtual 1080p, 60hz, 120" display is a lot easier for my old eyes to see than the 7" display on the Ally itself, and I like that I can use for more privacy when I'm out and about.  I like them enough that I offered to get a pair for my wife.  Her response was that I should upgrade and she'd just use my old ones, so yeah, I bought the Viture Pro XR glasses.

Honestly, I wasn't sure I needed the upgrade.  They're still 1080p, but they upped the refresh rate to 120hz, and they increased the FOV so the virtual screen is 135".  So far, nice-to-haves, but nothing earth-shattering.  The display is brighter, but I thought the One XRs were bright enough.  They also improved the electrochromatic lenses so that they get much darker, but the One XRs already had a clip-on cover if you needed to block out more light.

Then I got the Pro XRs in hand.  And I was right about one thing... I don't really notice a huge difference on the screen size.  But the rest is apparently a bigger deal than I thought.  It's not just brighter, it's noticeably brighter.  Combined with the darker lenses you definitely don't have to worry about seeing through the virtual screen, even in a bright environment.  But best of all, whatever they did to increase the FOV fixed the single biggest issue I had with the One XRs- blurry corners.  The entire virtual screen is nice and crisp.  The Pro XRs aren't cheap, but if you game on the go I'd say they're a must-have accessory for the ROG Ally/Ally X/Steam Deck.

XR glasses are the best way to get some bedtime gaming in before racking out...

The biggest benefit of the Ally X is unmarrying the handheld from proprietary overpriced eGPUs.

Snag yourself a dock, a decent GPU, and a powersupply and your Ally X is now a desktop replacement. I would recommend the ADT-UT3G - almost all the performance and very little loss.

My setup destroys Stalker 2 and Indiana Jones.

[mikeszekely]

2 minutes ago, Test_Pilot_2 said:

The biggest benefit of the Ally X is unmarrying the handheld from proprietary overpriced eGPUs.

Snag yourself a dock, a decent GPU, and a powersupply and your Ally X is now a desktop replacement. I would recommend the ADT-UT3G - almost all the performance and very little loss.

My i7-9700k is getting a little long in the tooth, but with 32GB of RAM, 6 and a half TB of storage, and an RTX 4070 in my tower I don't need the Ally X to be a desktop replacement.  Maybe after the RTX 5000-series launches I'll upgrade my desktop and save the 4070 for a dock on the off-chance I decide to game in the living room instead of my computer room, but for now the Ally is 85% for keeping me entertained while taking my kid to her various classes, and 10% gaming in bed, and 5% Netflix/Hulu/Youtube/etc in bed or when my girls are watching TV and I want to be close to them without actually watching their crap.

[azrael]

LG stops making Blu-ray players, marking the end of an era — limited units remain while inventory lasts (Tom's Hardware)

Seeing how people are grabbing physical copies because shows disappear from streaming on a routine basis, it's kinda sad another vendor is leaving that market. But alas....

[TangledThorns]

49 minutes ago, azrael said:

LG stops making Blu-ray players, marking the end of an era — limited units remain while inventory lasts (Tom's Hardware)

Seeing how people are grabbing physical copies because shows disappear from streaming on a routine basis, it's kinda sad another vendor is leaving that market. But alas....

 

No surprise. Its been years since I bought a blu-ray. If there is a movie I truly love I'll buy a digital copy, which I hadn't done in years too. However not every movie is on digital.

[azrael]

Also today,

Intel Arc B580 - "Battlemage" GPU reviews are out. Consensus is; It's not bad. Overall, it's actually worth the $250 price tag...if you are in the budget-build realm. Almost RTX 4060 performance overall at a RX7600 price tag. And with 12GB of VRAM to boot. Yah Intel (?). Drivers still need some work but it might actually be a good budget GPU.

[mikeszekely]

If I were building a cheap 1080p rig for someone just getting into PC gaming I'd probably go with Battlemage.  Doesn't do much for me, though.  Still, I sincerely hope Battlemage is a success- rumors are going around that Celestial could have a few more skus, and Nvidia really needs more competition in the mid-tiers... right now the price and performance difference between the RTX 4060 and RTX 4070 is huge.

[davidwhangchoi]

 

[mikeszekely]

So, uh... kind of a dumb question.  While my wife has been solidly in the iPhone camp, the last iOS device I personally used was so long ago that I can't remember if it was a 3rd-gen iPad or the original iPad Air (I think it was the Air).  That being said, my daughter wanted an iPad for Christmas, and I got her the 10th-gen iPad.  Like a responsible parent, I'm taking the time to set up parental controls from my wife's Apple ID and make sure it's charged and updated and all that.

Now, here's my dilemma... I think I'm in love with this hardware.  My post-iPad experience with tablets has been Surface devices, currently a Surface Pro 8+ with a keyboard cover that I really use more as very portable laptop at my TTRPG table.  The 10th-gen iPad is wonderfully thin and light compared to my Surface, but the aluminum chassis feels suitably high quality.  I'd love to have a tablet like it for myself, except for one major paint point... I loathe iOS.  Now, I'm NOT trying to start an iOS vs Android vs whatever debate here.  If you use an iOS device or devices and you like it that's great, but Apple's walled garden isn't for me personally.

And on that note... does anyone hear have much experience with Android tablets?  What I want out of life would be as close to the 10th-gen iPad as possible in terms of dimensions and materials, just running Android instead of iOS.  Seems like a lot of what's out there that has the nicer builds like the OnePlus Pad and the Galaxy Tab S10 are larger, like the iPad Pro, or else they're made out of cheaper materials.  Maybe a Pixel Tab?  I'm open to suggestions.