The computer and electronics super geek thread

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, seti88 said:

On the audio side, I hate headphones. Over time i get a headache cos of the weight over few hours of gaming. I suppose age is catching up.
No to mention disintegration of rubber/foam support over time caused me to toss a many pairs over the years previously. 

Are you used to using on-ear or over-ear headphones there?

YMMV, but when I switched to remote work at the start of the pandemic and my gaming PC also became an office workstation, I found over-the-ear headphones with a firm but narrow ear cup made a huge difference in preventing or reducing the frequency of those headaches.  The ones I had the best success with in terms of long-term use were the Logitech G935s.  They've held up pretty well for me... the only issue I've had with the pair I got back in like '18 or so is diminished battery life, but the battery's replacable.  (The one downside is the rigid foam traps a lot more body heat, so it gets a bit sweaty under there after 4-5 hours.)

[mikeszekely]

55 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Are you used to using on-ear or over-ear headphones there?

YMMV, but when I switched to remote work at the start of the pandemic and my gaming PC also became an office workstation, I found over-the-ear headphones with a firm but narrow ear cup made a huge difference in preventing or reducing the frequency of those headaches.  The ones I had the best success with in terms of long-term use were the Logitech G935s.  They've held up pretty well for me... the only issue I've had with the pair I got back in like '18 or so is diminished battery life, but the battery's replacable.  (The one downside is the rigid foam traps a lot more body heat, so it gets a bit sweaty under there after 4-5 hours.)

I used to be a big proponent of over-ear headphones, but even they're not as comfortable as the Sony Link Buds S earbuds I picked up for a business trip.

[azrael]

Over-the-ear definitely offers the best immersive experience for gaming. Unfortunately, the past couple of years allergies have not been kind to my facial skin so I’ve had to switch to earbuds to avoid suffocating and aggravating my skin. 
I used to have a 5.1 sound system but found it space-consuming and excessive for PC gaming. A good pair or 2.1 set provides equal or better immersion for gaming. Especially when gaming at night or when you want to reduce noise, you gravitate to a headset/earbuds anyways.

 

Edit: When I say good "pair", I mean ranging from something like the popular Kanto YU2 to the Logitech Z207 (yes a pair of $60 Logitech speakers can actually produce some decent sound).

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, azrael said:

I used to have a 5.1 sound system but found it space-consuming and excessive for PC gaming. A good pair or 2.1 set provides equal or better immersion for gaming. Especially when gaming at night or when you want to reduce noise, you gravitate to a headset/earbuds anyways.

Yeah, unless you have a dedicated gaming room or something similar 5.1 is a pain to pull off and doesn't really produce noticeably better immersion than a high quality 2.1 setup.

My first gaming rig, back in the days of SLI, had a 5.1 audio setup but I always struggled to find a decent placement for the two rear speakers that didn't require taping cords to my carpet... and even then I was defaulting to headphones most of the time to avoid bothering my neighbors.

I'm sure someone probably makes a 5.1 setup with wireless rear satellites by now, but I've yet to find a solution that really beats my tacky-as-hell 2.1 Logitech G560 speakers with the lights and my G935 headset.  

 

On a quasi-related note... since I've put together a new gaming rig for the first time in quite a few years, how're you all handling cable management?

[JB0]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

since I've put together a new gaming rig for the first time in quite a few years, how're you all handling cable management?

By not looking under my desk or behind my computer.

[azrael]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... since I've put together a new gaming rig for the first time in quite a few years, how're you all handling cable management?

Good olde Ikea Signum and plenty of velcro.

15 hours ago, JB0 said:

By not looking under my desk or behind my computer.

That too. *compares office desk vs WFH desk* 🫣🫢

[seti88]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Are you used to using on-ear or over-ear headphones there?

YMMV, but when I switched to remote work at the start of the pandemic and my gaming PC also became an office workstation, I found over-the-ear headphones with a firm but narrow ear cup made a huge difference in preventing or reducing the frequency of those headaches.  The ones I had the best success with in terms of long-term use were the Logitech G935s.  They've held up pretty well for me... the only issue I've had with the pair I got back in like '18 or so is diminished battery life, but the battery's replacable.  (The one downside is the rigid foam traps a lot more body heat, so it gets a bit sweaty under there after 4-5 hours.)

I used to only have over ear headphones. Probably marketing got to me with the immersion/comfort etc etc.

But since i dont game as much as i used to, the headphones usually end up untouched for long periods of time. Currently i use beats flex in-ear earphones just for voice calls on the PC but its not for marathon gaming purposes as the battery wont last.

I have a small room for my PC setup, at the moment i get away somewhat with acoustics boosted, having my desktop speakers and sub near walls to 'amplify'/'bounce'.

[TangledThorns]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

On a quasi-related note... since I've put together a new gaming rig for the first time in quite a few years, how're you all handling cable management?

My desk cabling is a mess. I do plan on getting a new system (gaming laptop) with a new desk next year and will manage the cabling a lot better this time using labeling, ties and such.

 

[azrael]

14th gen Intel CPU reviews are out. Raptor Lake refresh is ..a refresh. And uses more POWA! The only value (price/performance) improvement is the 14700K. But 14th gen vs Ryzen 7000X3D gives the value crown to AMD; cheaper price/performance, lower power usage, equal or better performance. Or buy last gen 13th gen Intel if you are looking to upgrade from something a lot older and want to stay on Team Blue.

[Spark-O-Matic]

Yeah Chipzilla is the king of refreshes but I've heard 15th gen is a big leap ahead but Imo more likely a skipped gen(outside of laptops) strait to 16th gen.

I just upgrade my graphics card last night from a 6800xt to a 7900xt as I'm getting back into graphics design/3D modeling and preparing to get into 3D Printing and wanted that extra boost in acceleration from AI accelerators. my current system i would like to last until 2027/2028 everything inside is all mature stable hardware based on  AM4/ PCI 4.0 all tucked inside a Lian Li case.

[Knight26]

Question regarding monitors, since the black Friday deals are hitting, I am currently running a triple 27" curved setup, bought most second-hand over a year or so period.  But I am considering jumping up to either a single ultrawide (40-49") or a 34" with a secondary in vertical orientation for documents, or beneath the main for reference materials.  Does anyone have any advice on which way seems to work best for them?  I like having multiple monitors to work from, and the idea of splitting the work between monitors/windows but my current setup is just too wide.

[Sanity is Optional]

If you work a lot with documents I find having a second vertical screen off to the side works well.

Not very useful if you're looking more at websites or the like however.

[mikeszekely]

Generally speaking, multi-monitor setups are better for productivity (regardless of curvature), as it's easier to assign specific windows to specific screens.  A single ultrawide with something like 1000R curvature is better for immersive gaming.  Since I do mostly gaming I've actually been eying Samsung's Odyssey Neo G9 (yeah, I know, the OLED one is prettier, but it's less curved and I hear Windows has problem display high-res fonts on OLED displays).  But in your case I'd maybe look at a three or four smaller display setup, like a 24-27" horizontal main display with a 21-24" display directly under it, then a vertical display on one or both sides.

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Knight26 said:

 But I am considering jumping up to either a single ultrawide (40-49") or a 34" with a secondary in vertical orientation for documents, or beneath the main for reference materials.  Does anyone have any advice on which way seems to work best for them?  I like having multiple monitors to work from, and the idea of splitting the work between monitors/windows but my current setup is just too wide.

It would be best to look at your workflow. For ergonomics, you'll want your main monitor front&center or in a direct-eye-level.

Ultra-wides are good if you need to look at a lot of information at one time without horizontal scrolling. That why content creators and Excel users like that form factor; there's little, if any, horizontal scrolling (or vertical if you are placing it in the vertical orientation). It sounds like you're thinking of the sideways-T configuration.

I think it would help us to know what your usage is. That could help us recommend a monitor configuration.

[Knight26]

I will be using it for work and gaming.
Working:  Writing, 3D CAD design/modeling, home management, etc...
Gaming:  Flight sims, 3d shooters, 

[azrael]

2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

I will be using it for work and gaming.
Working:  Writing, 3D CAD design/modeling, home management, etc...
Gaming:  Flight sims, 3d shooters, 

If you think you will end up using this mostly for work, then I would go with the multi-monitor setup. What configuration you want will depend on if you decide to keep those old monitors around or how many you want to keep. There's no rule book. It just depends on your space and workflow.

[Sanity is Optional]

17 hours ago, Knight26 said:

I will be using it for work and gaming.
Working:  Writing, 3D CAD design/modeling, home management, etc...
Gaming:  Flight sims, 3d shooters, 

For that mix, I'd definitely go multi-monitor, and probably with horizontal mount 2-3 screens. Maybe 1 vertical for the writing, but vertical is pretty useless for 3D CAD work or gaming.

[azrael]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:54 PM, mikeszekely said:

(yeah, I know, the OLED one is prettier, but it's less curved and I hear Windows has problem display high-res fonts on OLED displays).

Speaking of OLEDs...
Longevity And Burn-In Investigation 10-Month Results (Rtings.com)

Take away is, there's still more testing and more improvements needed on OLEDs.

[JB0]

On 11/20/2023 at 7:54 PM, mikeszekely said:

I hear Windows has problem display high-res fonts on OLED displays 

My understanding is the problem is with subpixel antialiasing. OLED displays don't have subpixels arranged in a way that matches any common LCD layout, and it breaks subpixel antialiasing.

 

Personally, I consider subpixel antialiasing an antifeature and do my best to kill it, despite software's insistence that it needs to be there(OS makes it hard to kill, then applications override preferences and force it back on anyways). Chromatic aberration in my glasses means the subpixel arrangement in any display is not consistent in my vision, so it is worse to have it than to not have it.

[mikeszekely]

In all seriousness, while I think SteamOS is better for console-style handheld PC gaming the ROG Ally has been my go-to for awhile.  It was a little rough at launch, but Asus has improved it through BIOS and driver updates.  Battery life isn't great, but the Z1 Extreme in the Ally beats the Steam Deck's custom APU, and while Windows is gonna Windows the simple fact is that not everything I want to play on the go is part of my Steam library, or Steam Deck compatible even if it is.

Now MSI's getting into the game, and the more I read up on it the more the Intel chipset in the Claw seems like it's a better CPU than the Z1 Extreme, but I have serious doubts about that Arc graphics and XESS will make for a better GPU.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Now MSI's getting into the game, and the more I read up on it the more the Intel chipset in the Claw seems like it's a better CPU than the Z1 Extreme, but I have serious doubts about that Arc graphics and XESS will make for a better GPU.

Yeah, I'm still giving MSI the 🤨 until reviews on that Intel chipset are out. Arc graphics are not as mature as Radeon 780M on the Z1 so we'll have to see how well it performs.

[Spark-O-Matic]

MSI must think 16 cores are going to offset the weak IGPU when they will only consume more power even if E cores. 8 cores is enough to push a screen that small and FPS.  my only issue with Intel is everything is EOL in terms of drivers and support after two maybe three years most on the consumer side.  a few years ago I bought a laptop brand new for that year and by the end of the year Intel had EOL'ed it as legacy driver support only.

Personally I would prefer something Arm or RISC-V if the performance in game could be matched but were not there yet.

I've got an MSI X570S motherboard and its rock solid almost two years later . no huge resource stealing bloatware like I had with the Asus MoBo drivers.

[mikeszekely]

I got to talking about my keyboard on a tangent in a Transformers thread, but I figured it's worth talking about here, too.  OK, so first some back story.  A long, long time ago, before I got into PC gaming, I went from a Windows desktop with a keyboard I can't even recall to a MacBook as my daily driver.  I got very used to the then-novel chicklet-style keys on the MacBook's keyboard, such that when I went back to Windows I looked for similarly low-profile keys... first some old Microsoft model, then a Logitech MK735, then the illuminated K800 after I decided I wanted a backlit keyboard.

At some point I did start to dabble with PC gaming, and the more I got into it the less those keyboards were cutting it for me.  But all those years with low-profile membrane keyboards left me almost totally unable to type on a full-height keyboard anymore.  I'm talking a drop from 90-ish wpm at 96% accuracy to 45 wpm and accuracy under 80%.  So I reluctantly kept using the membrane keyboards.

A few years ago I decided to buy a laptop, the original Asus ROG Zephyrus G14.  Now, even though the keyboard on it isn't mechanical, it was a markedly better typing experience than my desktop keyboard, and I could no longer stand to use that mushy mess.  After all, what kind of PC gamer doesn't use a mechanical keyboard?  So I did some digging, and I eventually settled on a Logitech G915 TLK.  At the time, it was the only mechanical keyboard I could find with low-profile switches and keycaps.  At $200 it was more than double what I'd spent on a keyboard before, but I was desperate.

Fortunately, I wound up loving it.  I went for linear switches because I'm a heavy typist who was going to bottom out the keys no matter how tactile, and I didn't want too loud clicky keys lest my late-night gaming wake my wife or kid.  The G915 use Logitech's proprietary Romer-G switches, and to me they have an immensely satisfying feel, requiring not too little but not too much force to actuate.  They're stable on the way down, make a solid (but not overly loud) clack, then spring back up, and the deck is aluminum so the whole thing feels really well built.  For me, at least, it's great for typing and great for gaming.

Now, here's the twist.  Years ago, my wife and I played Dragon Age Origins together using a system where I handled the actual controls, but she got to make all the decisions about what character we played, where we went, what dialogue choices we made, etc.  Back in the present, I picked up Baldur's Gate 3 and couldn't help but think of that time playing Dragon Age with my wife as I played it.  I'd really like to try playing Baldur's Gate with her, but unlike our long-ago apartment setup where pretty much everything was in our living room, my gaming PC is upstairs in a corner of the house with my Transformers and junk.  I know she'd prefer if we played on the 75" TV in the living room from the comfort of the sofa than try to squeeze around my desk with me.

The obvious solution is to take that Zephyrus and hook it up to the TV.  Heck, it's been a few years, I might even wait for the 2024 refresh to hit next month or so and buy a new one.  Of course, if the laptop's over by the TV and I'm sitting on the couch with my wife, I'll need a keyboard... but I found myself at the same place I was a few years ago with my desktop.  I didn't want to use a mushy membrane keyboard.  I'm starting to get arthritis in my knees, so I also didn't want to run upstairs to get my G915 every time we decided to play and then hopefully not forget it downstairs when I want to use my desktop, either.  So I needed a second low-profile, wireless, mechanical keyboard, but even with the price having dropped to $160-ish on Amazon I didn't really want to spend that much on a second G915 just to use once in awhile when my laptop is connected to the TV.  I needed to find an alternative.

That's what I want to talk about today... to Redragon K621 Horus TLK.  In a lot of ways, Redragon was definitely copying Logitech's homework.  The Horus has very similar dimensions; slightly wider, but approximately the same length and with the same deck height.  The Horus has slightly slimmer switches, but slightly thicker keycaps, so the overall key height is about the same.  They're both ten-keyless keyboards (though both are available in full-sized keyboards, and the Horus is also available in a 60% design).  Both keyboards have RBG lighting, and like the G915, the Horus has a few membrane buttons for controlling your media and the brightness of the lighting.  Both keyboards support a wired connection over USB, a wireless connection over a 2.4GHz receiver that can be stored under the keyboard, or via bluetooth.  Arguably the biggest copy is that the G915 has something like a extra-thick scroll wheel for controlling your volume, and sure enough the Horus has one too, right in the same spot.

In some ways, the Horus is even an improvement over the G915.  In a frustrating bit of penny-pinching on a $200 keyboard, Logitech opted to use micro-USB for the wired connection/charging, while Redragon uses USB-C on the Horus.  And, while the G915 does support Bluetooth, it has just the one connection, allowing for just two devices to be used wireless at one time.  The Horus supports three Bluetooth devices at once, so I can use it with a tablet or my ROG Ally or my phone in addition to a laptop.  Of course, the biggest improvement is the price.  At $53, the Horus cost a third of Amazon's discounted price on the G915 TLK.

Of course, now the question is whether or not that's too good to be true.  After all, there are a lot of membrane keyboards on the market that cost more than that.  Well, perhaps the old saying is true.  You do get what you pay for, and I definitely prefer the G915.  The Horus is totally plastic and significantly lighter than the G915.  The keys don't feel quite as stable, the switches are noticeably less crisp, and the sound the keys make is more hollow.  They keys come off fairly easily; a few were actually dislodged in the box.  The bottom line is that the G915 is a more expensive keyboard because the G915 is a more premium keyboard, and the one I'd recommend if you're not adverse to dropping $160-$200 on a keyboard you're going to use almost every day.

However, I need to stress that the Horus isn't a bad keyboard by any stretch.  It doesn't feel as good as a keyboard that costs triple, sure, but it still has low-profile keys and switches that I'm comfortable tying on, and it still feels far better than any membrane keyboard.  The Redragon Horus is going to be an upgrade for anyone who doesn't have some kind of mechanical keyboard already, and should appeal to anyone who balks at spending over $100 on a keyboard or who, like me, are looking for a good keyboard for a secondary machine that you can't justify spending that much on.

[Spark-O-Matic]

Thanks for the keyboard Info,  I've been thinking about updating from my Logitech K850 and wireless mouse but with a sea of products and endless review videos it's kinda been off putting .

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, Spark-O-Matic said:

Thanks for the keyboard Info,  I've been thinking about updating from my Logitech K850 and wireless mouse but with a sea of products and endless review videos it's kinda been off putting .

Well when it comes to keyboards, yeah, if you're willing to spend then G915 (regular or TLK) is my top choice. Mice are trickier. I think the comfiest mouse I've owned was a Razer (Deathadder or Mamba, can't recall), but I'm only willing to keep one mouse/keyboard app, so I switched to Logitech. I used a G703 for awhile, as it had a shape similar to the Razer. It was fine, but the switch in the left click crapped out. I replaced with with a G Pro, but I wasn't super impressed so I replaced that with a G502. That one is fine and has a few extra buttons, which is nice. Plus, all three of those mice are compatible with Logitech's Power Play mousepad. The Power Play is great- it's not just a mousepad, it acts as the wireless receiver for the mouse instead of a dongle. Even better, it comes with a thing that fits into the bottom of the mouse and makes the entire mousepad a wireless charger for the mouse, so you never need to charge it.

The only downside is it does get pricey. A G915 TKL, G Pro or G703, and a Power Play will run you around $320. Closer to  $400 if you get the G915 with the number pad and the G502.

[azrael]

Yes, this sounds just like my adventures in finding the right keyboard and mouse. And the only recommendation I can give anyone is "Try it and hope where you bought it from has a good return policy". And be prepared to drop money cuz it may take several tries to find the right input device.

6 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I replaced with with a G Pro, but I wasn't super impressed so I replaced that with a G502.

Ah the G502. I got that when it first came out many moons ago. I hated it. Coming from the G5/G500/G700-family shape, the G502 made me claw grip and eventually became unbearable for daily use and I returned it only after a week of use.

I thought of going with Razer but this was back in the day where Razer had questionable build quality so I kept looking. I finally settled on Roccat for my daily driver and have been there ever since. Their shapes fit my big hands and my palm grip. I have dabbled back with Logitech on the G900, G703, and G Pro. The G900 was OK but not what I was looking for in the long run. I still use it for WFH, but not for gaming anymore. The G703 was the best for my grip but saw less use over time and was eventually replaced by the G Pro, which is now my gaming mouse when I want something lighter for flick-movements. My G703 found a new home at the office, where I needed something more ergonomic.

Keyboards.... 😅 I still use Logitech membranes in the office (NEVER, EVER BRING A MECHANICAL KEYBOARD INTO AN OFFICE SPACE unless everyone else is using a mechanical KB). As mentioned earlier, I'm floating between my Roccat and have started test daily driving with a Nuphy Air 96v2 (sorry, I can't work without my ten-key). It's low profile and solid. It's one of the few 96% low profiles out there (besides a Keychron K17). I also got it with a coupon so that helped bring down the starting price.

[mikeszekely]

4 minutes ago, azrael said:

Ah the G502. I got that when it first came out many moons ago. I hated it. Coming from the G5/G500/G700-family shape, the G502 made me claw grip and eventually became unbearable for daily use and I returned it only after a week of use.

Huh.  I've always been a palm grip guy, and I personally don't have any issues palming the G502.  Really, my biggest issue with it has been the scroll wheel, which is one of those ones where it clicks but if you push a button it spins freely.  I find it too resistant in clicky mode, but so loose that the wheel moves sometimes just by repositioning the mouse.  I like the shape and extra side button on it better than the G Pro, though.  Really, though, I haven't liked any of them as much as my old Razer. 

17 minutes ago, azrael said:

I thought of going with Razer but this was back in the day where Razer had questionable build quality so I kept looking.

When I originally started using Razer mice back in the day I heard this a lot, and usually people were talking about the switches crapping out so they'd have trouble with phantom double-clicks or click-dragging.  And all I can say is I bought my first Razer mouse, a Death Adder, because I was having those sorts of issues with my Logitech Performance MX Mouse.  I never had an issues with that Deathadder; I only replaced it with a Mamba because the Mamba had the then-new Chroma lighting and the Deathadder was only green.  And the Mamba is still good, too, I just put it with my old desktop when I went all-in on Logitech again.  And wouldn't you know it, the first Logitech mouse I had since then also had the switches crap out, so I'm more inclined to trust Razer's mice than Logitech's now.  The only reasons I'm not switching back is that I love my G915 TKL, and the Power Play is a game changer for wireless mice.  In fact, I still use a Basilisk with my laptop, but I'll probably change that if I'm swapping my laptop gear to Redragon.*

...Although I see Razer's making a low-profile mechanical now, the Deathstalker V2 Pro.  And they have something similar to the Power Play with the Mamba Hyperflux, and I did like the Mamba...

25 minutes ago, azrael said:

sorry, I can't work without my ten-key

If you're using the keyboard for work, I agree.  But I don't work on my gaming PC, and going tenkey-less saved me money and desk space, and I think is more comfortable for long sessions of one hand hovering over WASD and the other on the mouse, since my hands are slightly closer together.  On the rare occasions I really do want a number pad on my desktop I keep a wireless bluetooth one handy.

Oh, and as far as mice and Redragon goes... I bought a M693 mouse from them.  Like the keyboard, it can be used wired via an included USB-C cable, or wirelessly with a 2.4GHz that stores under the mouse or via Bluetooth.  I wound up buying it and the 60% version of the Horus to use with my ROG Ally (the advantage of Windows over SteamOS is better compatibility and the ease of using multiple game sources, but the downside is that sometimes Windows is gonna Windows and you need a mouse and keyboard).  The software for reprograming the buttons is a bit jankier than Logitech's GHub or Razer's Synapse, but it got the job done.  It's got two buttons on the left side (forward and back by default), and two under the scroll wheel (for adjusting the DPI by default), RGB lighting, and goes up to 8000 DPI.  The size and shape are comfortable for me to use with a palm grip.  No idea how long the battery lasts- I haven't charged it since the day I got it, but I also haven't used it a ton.  Similarly, I have no idea how well the switches are going to hold up over time.  But it seems like a perfectly adequate, if unremarkable, wireless gaming mouse, and it's under $30.  I mean, definitely good for the price- you can get it and the Horus for less than I spent on either my G915 or my G502 (or G703, or GPro) alone.  For me personally, I wouldn't replace my expensive desktop gear, but an excellent choice for having a solid mouse and keyboard that support 2.4GHz or Bluetooth and still gives me low profile mechanical keys and switches on the keyboard for the occasions I want to use my laptop to game on the TV. 

*If I'm going Redragon on my laptop, I figure I'd get a mouse for it, too, instead of mixing Razer and Redragon gear or borrowing the mouse I got for the Ally.   So, I ordered a Redragon M914, too.  On paper it's fairly similar; RGB lighting, wired or wireless via Bluetooth or 2.4GHz, receiver stores under the mouse, and the price was within a dollar or so of the M693.  It has two more buttons, though, a third side button and a third button under the scroll wheel, and a higher max DPI (10,000).  From the pictures, it has a slightly different shape.  It hasn't arrived yet, so I can't report on the comfort yet.  I'll let you guys know.

[azrael]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:36 PM, mikeszekely said:

Now MSI's getting into the game, and the more I read up on it the more the Intel chipset in the Claw seems like it's a better CPU than the Z1 Extreme, but I have serious doubts about that Arc graphics and XESS will make for a better GPU.

Ruh Roh.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/handheld-gaming/meteor-lake-seemingly-struggles-against-amds-phoenix-apu-in-early-msi-claw-review

If these are true, Intel's (and MSI) have got a very very long way to go to get it optimized. Intel has never been good with efficiency and this might be another black eye for trying to break into this market.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, azrael said:

Ruh Roh.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/handheld-gaming/meteor-lake-seemingly-struggles-against-amds-phoenix-apu-in-early-msi-claw-review

If these are true, Intel's (and MSI) have got a very very long way to go to get it optimized. Intel has never been good with efficiency and this might be another black eye for trying to break into this market.

To be fair, the ROG Ally had some iffy performance at times and has been very much optimized by Asus over the last 10 months, which is why the Lenovo Legion Go (which runs on the same APU) often has worse performance.  That said, the Legion Go's worse performance has been within a few FPS, not the 30-40% gap that the Claw is seeing.

I'm sure Intel will optimize it further... Arc was a mess when it launched, and now it's... passable, at least for the price.  And I'm sure that the Core 7 Ultra 155H is probably better for CPU-intensive tasks than the Ryzen Z1 Extreme.  But who's going to buy these things for CPU tasks?  As you've noted, Intel's performance has often come at the cost of power consumption, which is only going to hurt the battery life, and Intel just doesn't have the experience AMD does on the GPU side.  I get MSI wanting to do something to set the Claw apart from the Legion Go and the ROG Ally (and, technically, the Steam Deck and the myriad of Ayaneo devices), but relying on Intel for a gaming APU was shooting themselves in the foot before they even released it.

[Sanity is Optional]

Bit of a different topic, but still electronics:

Was in the market for an e-reader/tablet the other day for something to take notes and read books on, ended up getting a Boox Tab Ultra C Pro. Quite happy with it, runs android, has a SD card slot, camera, good built-in reader software with the ability to take notes on the files. Built-in note app as well, and a scanner with the camera. I've had it for a month and only charged it up once so far. 

I wouldn't use it to watch videos, since the color e-ink display only has 150 dpi (300dpi B+W), and the refresh rate isn't great for videos, but for reading/internet/note taking it's great.

[mikeszekely]

17 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Bit of a different topic, but still electronics:

Was in the market for an e-reader/tablet the other day for something to take notes and read books on, ended up getting a Boox Tab Ultra C Pro. Quite happy with it, runs android, has a SD card slot, camera, good built-in reader software with the ability to take notes on the files. Built-in note app as well, and a scanner with the camera. I've had it for a month and only charged it up once so far. 

I wouldn't use it to watch videos, since the color e-ink display only has 150 dpi (300dpi B+W), and the refresh rate isn't great for videos, but for reading/internet/note taking it's great.

I have a Boox e-reader, the Leaf 2 (I hear it's been replaced by the Page now, though).  It's a black-and-white e-ink display.  I bought it because I never got into the Kindle ecosystem.  Instead I'd collected a lot of epub files that either didn't have copy protection, or that I used Calibre to strip the copy protection from.  When I started I tried different Android apps to read epubs files, but eventually I realized that you could upload your own books to Google Play Books and that Google would sync your progress across devices.  From that point on, I always wanted something like a Kindle or a Nook, but that could also run Google Play Books.  Boox is one of the very few companies that make Android-based e-readers.

Edited February 17 by mikeszekely

[Sanity is Optional]

47 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I have a Boox e-reader, the Leaf 2 (I hear it's been replaced by the Page now, though).  It's a black-and-white e-ink display.  I bought it because I never got into the Kindle ecosystem.  Instead I'd collected a lot of epub files that either didn't have copy protection, or that I used Calibre to strip the copy protection from.  When I started I tried different Android apps to read epubs files, but eventually I realized that you could upload your own books to Google Play Books and that Google would sync your progress across devices.  From that point on, I always wanted something like a Kindle or a Nook, but that could also run Google Play Books.  Boox is one of the very few companies that make Android-based e-readers.

I was really surprised that there's so few e-ink readers aside from Kindles. I imagine there will be more coming now that e-ink is cheaper, and the Kindles are getting loaded with advertisements, plus how they only work with kindle books from Amazon.

It's wild to me that the tablet and cellphone market is so diverse, but options for e-ink are so limited.

[azrael]

46 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

It's wild to me that the tablet and cellphone market is so diverse, but options for e-ink are so limited.

And that's the reason why. E-ink use cases are limited. E-ink is great for static images (downright awesome), but LCD panel technology has come so far that E-ink use cases are significantly reduced. Limited, you could say. 😀 Ebooks could easily be opened on a phone screen or more appropriately, a tablet screen. What one could do on a E-ink device could easily be done on a LCD panel device. Plus you can view other media on a LCD device and not suffer ridiculously slow latency and refresh rate.

[Sanity is Optional]

1 minute ago, azrael said:

And that's the reason why. E-ink use cases are limited. E-ink is great for static images (downright awesome), but LCD panel technology has come so far that E-ink use cases are significantly reduced. Limited, you could say. 😀 Ebooks could easily be opened on a phone screen or more appropriately, a tablet screen. What one could do on a E-ink device could easily be done on a LCD panel device. Plus you can view other media on a LCD device and not suffer ridiculously slow latency and refresh rate.

Alternatively, aside from refresh rate and number of colors, e-ink is just plain better.

• Massive increase in battery life, which also allows for smaller batteries and smaller/lighter devices.
• Much easier on the eyes than a backlit LCD/LED screen
• Can be more easily viewed in bright light/outdoors

Personally, apart from watching youtube, I find I much prefer the new e-ink tablet to my phone or ipad. I bought it to use as a mobile textbook during my masters, but I've ended up using it for a lot more than that. Also works well for keeping tabletop gaming reference books on.

For what it's worth, it has a much better refresh rate than older e-ink devices. Under a second, or 2-3 per sec in fast or B+W modes. Haven't had any refresh rate annoyances when taking notes or reading, or when using the browser.

[azrael]

I'm not doubting the benefits of e-ink devices, but the versatility and multi-application use of LCD-devices simply outweigh the benefits of e-ink devices, diminishing the prevalence of e-ink devices.