The computer and electronics super geek thread

[Uxi]

Fortunately I built high end last November.  9900k, z390 (Maximus Hero XI), 32GB RAM.  I got tired of waiting for Ampere so got a 2070 OC instead of the 3080 or maybe 3090, which I'm thinking maybe for this summer or winter, depending (everything running fine in DCS in VR, which is the most taxing game for me right now), so probably good.  If not this year, maybe next year will go to 64GB and a 3080 Ti or 4080 or whatever is out then.  

[azrael]

RTX 3060 are not now available.

Let's check prices...$100 mark up. Ugh...

[DewPoint]

At least it's not a $500 mark up. . . Yet . . .

[TangledThorns]

I see Newegg has a lottery system to get a card now. Insane. I'm glad I quit gaming when I did, this is a ridiculous time to be a gamer. And since I'm not gaming I was looking at selling my RTX 2060 since I could possibly get more money back that I paid for it but I can't even find a worthy budget card to replace it with, ugh.

[azrael]

Intel Core i7-11700K Review: Blasting Off with Rocket Lake (Anandtech)

I expect Intel will now be cleaning house on its distribution and supply chain team. And I expect more non-NDA 11700k reviews to start popping up.

Considering that Ryzen 7 5800X are now starting to show up AND at MSRP this might harder sell for Intel. But there are more stick for Intel parts...

[technoblue]

AMD's buy direct site continues to be a big tease. 

And now it's toast.

Edited March 18, 2021 by technoblue

[David Hingtgen]

Just had something weird/bad happen with my PC----when trying to come out of sleep mode, it kind of went into a VERY short repetitive boot cycle---most of the lights would come on for half a sec, then everything would die.  Then light up for half a sec, and die.  It wouldn't respond to power or reset buttons, only way to stop this cycling was to literally pull the plug.

Attempting a cold boot from that resulted in same thing--lights up for half a sec then dies, and starts repeating that while ignoring power/reset buttons--had to pull plug.  

Went through about 3 sets of these cycles, and this last time----started up fine.  My guess is that my PSU suddenly "went bad" (about 6 years old, a Seasonic gold) but am wondering about other options/suggestions.  I do have an older "backup" PSU that actually has far fewer hours on it at this point, but it's got a bit lower rating and I'm not sure it's up to the task of running my GPU when it's working hard.   

 

::NEW THOUGHT::----power button itself?  It's a "custom" one that is unique to the case, and it's always been a bit "finicky", but I noticed a few weeks ago it was "even more so" (not registering an "on" push sometimes)----I'd vote on it giving out more than the PSU.   But would that explain why it wouldn't come out of sleep mode via keyboard/mouse? (since button wouldn't have been touched since last cold boot)  Could the power button have become "stuck" while sleeping, causing power issues?   (the button itself only depresses like 1mm if that, it has almost no travel, but isn't capacitive/touch based)   

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

@David Hingtgen First guess would also be the power supply.   Typically the culprit of most overall weird shenanigans with a PC.     I would get a meter out and test voltages..  however it wont test load,   You can build something to do that,  but Voltages usually give it away.

2nd.. for the switch,  what type?  Again if you suspect the switch attach a lead from a multimeter to each end and test for continuity.     You might also get lucky and spray some electrical contact cleaner in there and it resolves itself... if the switch if flaky. 

 

 

[technoblue]

Have you tried using a different power lead, @David Hingtgen? As a quick test, you can use the spare that comes with your other power supply and see if the different cable helps at all when connected to power. It's rare, but I have seen instances where a bad power lead has caused similar issues so it wouldn't hurt to rule it out as a simple fix. Otherwise, I agree with Stampeed Valkyrie. It seems like the Seasonic PSU is showing signs of giving up its magic smoke.

The alternative is a worst-case scenario with the motherboard itself. I'm hoping that isn't the culprit in this case.

[David Hingtgen]

First bit of testing (after vacuuming/dusting just in case)---

Not the power switch itself---disconnected it and used the MOBO's own little button.  Same result.  Interesting thing I noticed----even after flipping the PSU's master switch to off, it still tried like one more half-try, until the MOBO's own power-indicator LED fully faded out.  It strikes me as odd that it tries SO hard to keep booting, even when the master switch is flipped off. 

::edit::   Power cable swap didn't do anything.  CMOS battery next (unlikely but cheap/easy), then PSU swap.   

[David Hingtgen]

CMOS battery---might be it? Started right up after replacing it.  Going to reconnect case's power and reset switches and see.  

::edit::   Nope, was just a random success, like the one other successful boot today.  

[azrael]

You can try switching PSUs to see if that fixes the issue. If it does, do you have an Intel CPU? Use the iGPU until you get a beefier PSU. 
It could be something on the motherboard. Since you tried the CMOS battery, it could be an incorrectly seated battery or a bad battery. Maybe the video card or RAM got knocked loose? I’m leaning toward something on the motherboard is the culprit. Yes, that could mean any component connected to the motherboard, which doesn’t narrow things down. 

[David Hingtgen]

Getting worse, not better. Most times it won't power on at all.   Working my way down to "bare mobo/psu/cpu/ram" but disconnecting most everything else made no difference.  

Backup PSU made no difference.  

Leaning towards mobo at this point.  

Did pull CMOS battery again and jumped pins to clear, but no difference.

 

 

[David Hingtgen]

Pulling most things worked, two or three times in a row.  So started hooking things back up again and testing----then I smelled something, plastic/vinyl----usually not good.  Then my DVD burner (yes, still have one) started smoking at the connector:

 

I am hoping that is the cause, and not a symptom...

(I'm very glad my GPU was still pulled, as that's my newest and most expensive component)

[technoblue]

Yikes! That could be it, yeah. It could also be evidence of a PSU fault affecting the 5v rail since the SATA leads feed 5v to connected devices. In any case, I’m less inclined to think it’s a motherboard issue with this visible damage. 

I wouldn’t trust the PSU anymore in this case. It looks like it has stopped regulating the correct flow of power. 

[David Hingtgen]

Thing is, this was the "backup" PSU I just put in a bit ago.  I double-checked, and it wasn't plugged in backwards (impossible due to keyed shape, and burn marks match "correct" alignment).   But found bigger problem:

HDD was on same power cable (several SATA devices on it) and it got hit too:

As the pins are still visible, I'm hoping the connector is still salvageable by getting rid of the melted plastic, and I can recover my files since my last backup. Any thoughts/suggestions?  

As to cause----cable itself went bad?  Power issue started with the PSU it's been using, not this one   But was using same HDD/DVD SATA power cable for almost all tests.  

::edit:: Googling, it seems "good" mobo's will shut themselves off with a dead short----that would explain it dying/cycling, if it was trying to protect itself.  

 

[David Hingtgen]

Tried raw mobo/psu/cpu/ram----same "half-second attempt" as before.   Even tried swapping RAM around just in case---nope.  

So, as trying to get a mobo only (old) is likely pointless, I may as well just get a whole new CPU/RAM/mobo combo, and be sure of things. Most of this PC's parts were bought a while ago--Newegg has gone quite downhill, and NCSX is gone, so I'm open to suggestions on where/how/what to get.  Basically: 

I am looking to get something quick, decent, and cheap, to use my existing drives and GPU (and likely PSU---can't imagine both are bad, I'm still blaming mobo or drives or cable).  

Normally I try to go for medium-high gaming, but this time I just want something to "tide me over" until I have the time/research to build a good all-new system.  

Existing case is pretty large, so most anything should fit.   Pretty much just need an ATX mobo, CPU and RAM. 

(my current CPU and RAM are too old to re-use on any current mobo now)

[David Hingtgen]

As I am PC-less now, speed is important, I'd want to order tonight if possible, and maybe have it later this week. So a combo from one place (likely Amazon? Usually very quick around here) is probably preferred.  So, suggestions urgently requested.  Want to spend "a couple hundred" on mobo+cpu+ram.   Will re-use everything else for now.   As it's replacing an i5-4690 system, I figure most anything will be an improvement.  (I'm up to GPU #3, that's really about all that matters)

[azrael]

Considering it occurred with both PSUs, I wouldn’t consider the PSU as the cause of the short, but I would consider them both as e-waste now that there was a short. The burn marks on both devices are on the Ground pins next to the 3.3V pins. If you can scrape off the carbon from the contacts, you could be OK if all you’re doing is pulling data off. Though, I won’t trust it for long term use anymore.

Unfortunately, your need for a new desktop could not have come at a more terrible time. Even last gen parts are hard to source at reasonable prices. Pre-built AMD Ryzen 3000-series based system or Intel 10-series based system may be the cheapest solution. “Couple of hundred” is going to be hard to do right now. If you have a laptop, that would be a better choice to hold you over until desktop parts come down to reasonable prices. 

[David Hingtgen]

Would you suggest just buying a pre-built system, and basically plugging my GPU in it?   

I was planning on buying a new PSU at BestBuy tomorrow (the one thing they do have a few decent options of), might just have to buy a PC too...

::edit:: A quick look shows I hate all the pre-builts.  Would rather spend the same money on a mobo combo.   Still looking for suggestions on a "drop into my existing case" mobo/cpu/ram combo.  

[azrael]

People have been buying pre-builts to extract the GPU while you're trying to put one in. 

Intel Core i5-10600K Desktop Processor 6 Cores up to 4.8 GHz Unlocked  LGA1200

Gigabyte B460M DS3H Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 Desktop Memory Kit

[David Hingtgen]

That's kinda similar to what I was looking at earlier.  I was leaning towards "most popular" options from PCpartpicker etc, figuring lowest odds of incompatibility etc.   Currently, that'd be something like:

Ryzen 3600

MSI B450 Max

16GB of Corsair RAM

That's roughly $400.  (not including cost of new PSU as need one regardless).  Will need a new cooler too, my AMD brackets are long-gone it seems.  (and my intel ones won't work for current gen I think)

[technoblue]

 

2 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

That's kinda similar to what I was looking at earlier.  I was leaning towards "most popular" options from PCpartpicker etc, figuring lowest odds of incompatibility etc.   Currently, that'd be something like:

Ryzen 3600

MSI B450 Max

16GB of Corsair RAM

That's roughly $400.  (not including cost of new PSU as need one regardless).  Will need a new cooler too, my AMD brackets are long-gone it seems.  (and my intel ones won't work for current gen I think)

I'm running a Ryzen 3600 CPU in my HTPC and have no complaints. If you can find the parts, then it's a good build. If you like to tinker, it also lets you get familiar with all the AMD UEFI/BIOS terminology. For the CPU cooler, a good tower cooler that fits your case will get you optimum performance. The wraith stealth cooler is so-so. It will do in a pinch but it's anemic when using the 3600's performance boost features.

The B450 chipset is superseded by the B550 chipset which adds PCIe 4.0, better support for NVME drives, faster ethernet (and Wifi for motherboards that have it), and support for faster front-panel USB-C with a new connector. It's something to keep in mind when looking. If you don't need the extra motherboard bells and whistles, the B450 chipset will give you the same Ryzen CPU upgrade path. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by technoblue

[azrael]

The Ryzen 5 3600 comes with the Wraith cooler which is actually a decent cooler (provided you won't be overclocking). Otherwise, ye olde CM Hyper 212 Evo is still the budget builder's cooling-on-a-dime-cooler.

[David Hingtgen]

Current goal is more "decent for now, with complete replacement later" rather than future-proofing or upgradeability.  Will be run purely stock.  (I used to overclock, but not any more) 

I tend to put in big coolers so that they can run cool and very quiet at stock, vs allow heavy overclocking.  

Im thinking about Ryzen 1600 or 2600, for price/availability...

[David Hingtgen]

Ground/SATA question: the 3 burned pins on the HDD, seem to have broken/melted off the PCB board end. Are they truly necessary?  Based on pin-out, they are grounds---are all grounds equal?  The other 3 ground pins are perfect.  

In other words---what are the odds that the HDD (with 3 of 6 ground pins out of commission) can be read at least once or twice to snag some files, once I have a working PC again?  

[kajnrig]

HP has a pre-built Ryzen APU desktop with a 1650 Super for around $600.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-pavilion-gaming-desktop-tg01-1070m-3g825av-1

Lots of proprietary hardware - including the motherboard, PSU, and probably the heatsink mounts, too - but it'll get you what you need. The CPU (Ryzen 4650G) seems roughly on par with the 3600, maybe a rung or two below it overall. The GPU is halfway decent, and if you decide to sell it off to recoup some of the cost you still have the fairly capable iGPU to fall back on. It comes with 2 sticks of 3200 RAM standard, so it won't be bottlenecked by single channel memory.

It'll probably serve you well for the here and now, and when you do decide to upgrade, the CPU might also be worth somewhat more than the 3600 you're considering. Aside from its integrated graphics, it's also an OEM-only chip, so it has something of a novelty factor. Sell it with or without the other parts; either way, you'd almost assuredly make your money back on it.

[technoblue]

2 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Ground/SATA question: the 3 burned pins on the HDD, seem to have broken/melted off the PCB board end. Are they truly necessary?  Based on pin-out, they are grounds---are all grounds equal?  The other 3 ground pins are perfect.  

In other words---what are the odds that the HDD (with 3 of 6 ground pins out of commission) can be read at least once or twice to snag some files, once I have a working PC again?  

Hm. It may be better to try and replace the logic board. For instance, search eBay for the terms 'logic board' and the make and model of your HDD. It's important to find the exact PCB for your drive, but if you can find a working one, swap the old burnt one out and then recover your data.

[David Hingtgen]

I've been checking on HDD board replacements---much conflicting info on if it works.   Specifically I have a WD10EZEX, which from what I can tell has a "unique to that serial number" chip on it which needs to be swapped to any replacement board.  Now I'm perfectly willing to pay the places that offer it, but I would like to at least try "getting it to run as-is" first if possible, as the turn-around time could be a while.   (especially if board-swapping won't likely work). 

[azrael]

10 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Ground/SATA question: the 3 burned pins on the HDD, seem to have broken/melted off the PCB board end. Are they truly necessary?  Based on pin-out, they are grounds---are all grounds equal?  The other 3 ground pins are perfect.  

In other words---what are the odds that the HDD (with 3 of 6 ground pins out of commission) can be read at least once or twice to snag some files, once I have a working PC again?  

Without knowing which leads are connected to which, it will be hard to know if the dead Grounds were used. Some PCBs do not make that clear until you screw if off.

7 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

I've been checking on HDD board replacements---much conflicting info on if it works.   Specifically I have a WD10EZEX, which from what I can tell has a "unique to that serial number" chip on it which needs to be swapped to any replacement board.  Now I'm perfectly willing to pay the places that offer it, but I would like to at least try "getting it to run as-is" first if possible, as the turn-around time could be a while.   (especially if board-swapping won't likely work). 

Unfortunately, you'll need an exact model to get a donor board from. PCBs can change between different lots of the same model (rare but possible, usually differs from one size's iteration to the next). It may be safer to go to a data recovery service to get them to recover the data.

[kajnrig]

This is incredibly sketch, but you might be able to scrape off some PCB material to reveal good bare copper right next to those burned pins and solder some wires to facilitate a connection there.

Do I recommend it? Heck no.  Literally any other action would be preferable, including just having a data recovery team swap the platters to an identical drive.

But regardless, good luck.

[Shadow]

Currently debating on upgrading from a Ryzen 1600 to a 5600X, or wait until Zen 4 arrives and do more of full rebuild of my current PC.

[azrael]

19 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Currently debating on upgrading from a Ryzen 1600 to a 5600X, or wait until Zen 4 arrives and do more of full rebuild of my current PC.

Zen 4 is due in 2022 and will likely use the AM5 socket. With the 5600, you'll still get a few more years of life out of your current setup and should hold you over until the shortage issues normalize.

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Shadow said:

Currently debating on upgrading from a Ryzen 1600 to a 5600X, or wait until Zen 4 arrives and do more of full rebuild of my current PC.

What @azrael wrote, especially if you have a motherboard running the B450 or X470 chipset. That gives you an upgrade path from Zen to Zen3 (including the Ryzen 5000 desktop line). If you've owned your board for a while, though, you may need to update to the latest BIOS. 

Other AMD chipsets have limitations. For instance CPU compatibility for x370 tops out at Zen2 (the Ryzen 3000 desktop line).

Not specific to your situation, but x570 is compatible with Zen+ and newer (so no Zen CPU support) and B550 is compatible with Zen2 and newer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4

Edited June 21, 2021 by technoblue

[kajnrig]

Select B350/X370 boards ARE compatible with 3000-series CPUs and up, but it's very much up to each individual motherboard manufacturer to provide BIOS updates to support them.

If you don't absolutely need PCI-E 4.0, it honestly isn't that much of an issue sticking with the board you have (assuming it supports newer Ryzen generations). From what I can tell, devices taking advantage of 4.0 bandwidth are still few and far between, and those that do (mainly NVMe SSDs) do so spottily.

Also something to keep in mind: AMD announced that they would be starting production on 3D-stacked chips in Q4 2021 - so release probably in Q1/Q2 2022. Whether that means 3D-stacked Zen 4 or "Zen 3+" is unknown. However, the prototype "5900X with 3D-stacked cache" showed off at Computex just a few weeks ago demonstrated about +10-15% performance boost over the stock 5900X, so it might be worth waiting for that to come out as well.

Edited June 21, 2021 by kajnrig