The computer and electronics super geek thread

[JB0]

7 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Nevermind, looks like physical KVM switches still suck or are super expensive.

Yeah, the market for midrange KVM switches dried up. Or was actively killed to protect the high cost of "real business" switches.

[Mazinger]

I actually think a product like Synergy does away with 90% of the use case for a KVM switch:

 

[David Hingtgen]

I'd be very very surprised if my company PC would "let synergy in".   They really lock down their stuff.  

Anyways---well, as of yesterday, MS says my Office 2010 key on my home PC isn't a valid one.  It's been valid for quite a few years, but multiple browser/reinstall attempts later---nope, it utterly refuses to acknowledge it.   Can't install, can't open my spreadsheets.  Sigh.  Are the 'discount' copies of Office ever legit?  

[azrael]

8 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Anyways---well, as of yesterday, MS says my Office 2010 key on my home PC isn't a valid one.  It's been valid for quite a few years, but multiple browser/reinstall attempts later---nope, it utterly refuses to acknowledge it.   Can't install, can't open my spreadsheets.  Sigh.  Are the 'discount' copies of Office ever legit?  

One can never know. OEM licenses are floating out there in bulk and MS are invalidating the pirated keys. Office 2010 is EOL’d in October so it’s time to upgrade. Either Office 2016/2019, Office 365, or go free with LibreOffice. 

[David Hingtgen]

I tried LibreOffice long ago, didn't like it at all.  Are new versions significantly different? 

[mikeszekely]

23 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

I tried LibreOffice long ago, didn't like it at all.  Are new versions significantly different? 

You'd be better off asking my wife if spreadsheets are your thing, I'm more of a word processor guy.  And yeah, I prefer Word's interface... I'll have to see if I can recover the license from my old PC if I decide I want it on this one.  But LibreOffice opens all the files I created in Word, and I don't prefer Word's interface enough to pay for it.

[kajnrig]

For my part, I vastly prefer LibreOffice's UI to modern Word's. I'm sure if I acclimated to Word 20...13? 2007? Whenever they went from the old-school drop down menus to the new style UI... If I acclimated to that, I'd be able to work with it just fine, but LibreOffice shares more of Office 2003's familiar UI. I suppose that dates me a little, but eh, it is what it is. I've not had a reason to make the switch. But I don't use office programs very often, and when I do I don't need them to do particularly fancy things, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about this.

[David Hingtgen]

Honestly I liked Office 2000 the best, and still have the disc for it.  I only got Office 2010 because 2000 really didn't seem to like Win 7 64-bit.  

[mikeszekely]

5 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Honestly I liked Office 2000 the best, and still have the disc for it.  I only got Office 2010 because 2000 really didn't seem to like Win 7 64-bit.  

Well, the thing about LibreOffice is that it's free.  Give it a shot, maybe it's better than the last time you used it.  If not, you can uninstall it and all you'll have lost is a little time.

[azrael]

I’m sure I could use LibreOffice since it does use Office 2003’s UI except I’ve spent my entire employed life in the MS Office-space and its many many iterations on both Windows and Mac platforms that it’s virtually impossible for me to get away from it, even at home. 

At least LibreOffice will open your files until you get a new copy of MS Office. 

[mikeszekely]

Quick question, for those of you with 4K displays and adequate GPUs- do you prefer to play PC games in 4K with the visual settings turned down, or do you prefer to crank up the settings even if it means playing in QHD or 1080p?

[technoblue]

33 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Quick question, for those of you with 4K displays and adequate GPUs- do you prefer to play PC games in 4K with the visual settings turned down, or do you prefer to crank up the settings even if it means playing in QHD or 1080p?

I don't have a true 4K (3840x2160) display at home, although I do have an ultrawide monitor with native 3440x1440 resolution.

My settings are game dependent. For instance, FPS titles benefit the most from smooth frames and, if I need to, I'll dial in the graphics settings to make sure everything runs smoothly. Other titles, like Turn Based and Real Time Strategy titles, RPGs, and even certain Simulation titles aren't as twitchy. For these games I like to crank the graphics settings up as high as I can.

1080p is what I use for my living room HTPC, since I have an old Plasma TV hooked up to that system.  I run games on that PC using mostly high settings. 

All that said, my two PCs (not including the 1440p monitor) are also getting long in the tooth. I've had them running for a good 7 years and today's software is finally starting to push the silicon. My turn-around time for system upgrades is normally 3 years, so I guess I'm overdue.

[hachi]

10 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

I tried LibreOffice long ago, didn't like it at all.  Are new versions significantly different? 

Have you tried Google Docs? That is if you have an account. It's free (but of course you are the product haha). Personally I have used that when planning expenses for trips, and sharing it with my travel mates. Very convenient.

I also use LibreOffice at home. I think the UI looks better now, and the default display isn't the ribbon interface b*llshit. (I am on Version 6.0.4.2 for reference.) Then again I don't do anything fancy (nothing like the stuff I do at work using M$ Word) and it is sufficient for my needs. Besides, I use Linux OS since I refuse to pay for Windows (and I do not want to use pirated Windows OS either).

[Mazinger]

18 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Quick question, for those of you with 4K displays and adequate GPUs- do you prefer to play PC games in 4K with the visual settings turned down, or do you prefer to crank up the settings even if it means playing in QHD or 1080p?

When I played FPSs I liked to get as high of a framerate as possible so I would only ever use 1x or 2x anti-aliasing.

Higher definition display may also increase input lag, the amount of time when you click, and you see the action happen on your screen.  For most casual games, that's probably not an issue.

Now as for fighting games, well they usually aren't very demanding on hardware, but must absolutely run at 60 FPS - no more, no less. Anything that increases input lag is verboten, so 4K monitors are wasted on fighters.

[mikeszekely]

Any Linux users out there?

I've dabbled off an on, starting with Xandros way back in the day before moving to Ubuntu, then switching from Ubuntu to Linux Mint when Ubuntu dropped GNOME as the default desktop a few years back.  And while I give LM kudos for being very easy to use, even with with the Cinnamon desktop it just looks and feels dated compared to Windows 10 or whatever the current version of MacOS is.

Well, I got my wife a new laptop, and I pulled the hard drive out of her old one and swapped in an SSD.  I want to set it up mostly as an internet device I can use while I'm playing a game on my main desktop PC, so Linux is perfect for that.  But I want to try something new.  I currently installed Elementary OS, and it certainly looks pretty.  But I've already spent more time in the Terminal installing Tweaks and other workarounds just to get it to behave the way I want than doing my usual websurfing, so I'm not really loving my experience.

Anyway, long story short, I've got Manjaro (with the KDE Plasma) and Deepin (DDE) downloaded and ready to be burned, plus Solus (Budgie) and Zorin (I think GNOME) downloading.  One nice thing about Linux is that you can usually try it from the disc without installing it, so I guess I can see which I like.  But I was wondering if you guys have a distro that you like or that you'd recommend, and why.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Any Linux users out there?

...

Sorry. Only enterprise-use. I haven’t touched a desktop-distro in years. 

[JB0]

3 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Any Linux users out there?

Not if I can help it.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

Not if I can help it.

[mikeszekely]

In case anyone's reading this thread and wondering about what Linux is good for, I'll say this: while there are people out there that prefer Linux for a variety of reasons, no, I don't expect the average Windows user would be comfortable ditching Windows for Linux.  And given how tribal they can be, I expect Mac users to be even less inclined to go Linux (even though MacOS is more similar to Linux than Windows is, as MacOS and Linux are both based on UNIX).

What I personally like to use Linux for is older computers.  While some of my family and friends might get along fine with a computer they bought over five years ago Windows always seems painfully slow to me after too many services packs or "Feature Updates".  Many Linux distros run lighter than Windows (some are super lightweight and can even be installed on old Windows XP machines), and can breathe new life into an older computer that you might not use as your main computer, but that you might like to have around as a secondary machine.

Now while there are a ton of versions of Linux, and Linux can do all sorts of things (especially when you learn the ins and outs of Terminal), if you're going to replace Windows on an older computer you probably want something that's easy to use with minimal fuss, even if you are normally into tech.  And that's why I've focused on the distros I did.  Using two laptops I actually installed five different distros tonight and briefly messed around with them.  So, my opinions aren't meant to be deep reviews or anything, but more like quick opinions based on how the distro looks and feels, how easy it was to install the Chrome browser, the options in Settings, the file manager, and the package manager and/or app store.  (Not long ago I'd have graded on how easy it was to install, but they're all pretty easy these days.)

Elementary OS: This distro has a reputation for being one of the prettier ones, and it's hard to argue with that.  If you've used a Mac before you might feel at home here, with a dock-like panel at the bottom for your apps and a bar along the top with menus and stuff you might find in the corner of a Windows task bar.  I installed this first, based just on what I'd read, because I expected to like it the best.  Unfortunately I'd say it was the biggest pain, as configuring it the way I expected it to behave required a lot of time in the Terminal.  Heck, even installing Chrome couldn't be done without getting into the Terminal and typing commands (although I did get it done).

Manjaro: Ok, so it's sometimes not enough to pick which version of Linux you want to use.  Desktop versions of Linux has what's called a desktop environment, and many give you different options.  Years ago I'd used Kubuntu, a version of Ubuntu built around the KDE environment, so when choosing which version of Manjaro to download I grabbed KDE Plasma.  Honestly, I didn't play with this one too much and I'm not giving it a fair shake, but I did this one last.  KDE Plasma is very busy-looking compared to the others, and I just didn't want to be bothered with it anymore.

Solus OS: This one kind of has the opposite of Manjaro's problem, in that it's pretty spartan.  However, it's pretty straightforward with a custom desktop environment called Budgie that works a bit like Windows. I didn't have to do much to get it up and running the way I wanted it.  It's got Firefox for the default browser, and I was able to find stuff I normally use in its package manager.  There's even a "third-party" section with stuff like Chrome.  It's a good choice for Linux novices, I think.

Zorin OS: This one's a bit of an odd duck.  For one, I think the default theme is the worst of the distros I tried tonight.  For two, to get the most out of it you need the "ultimate" version, and unlike most other popular versions of Linux Zorin Ultimate runs $39.  What you get, though, is pretty versatile.  For one, it's actually based on Ubuntu.  This is a big deal because, while not as popular as it once was, Ubuntu was arguably the gold standard for desktop Linux for a long time, and a lot of software can easily be found already packaged to run on Ubuntu and it's relatives.  In fact, while Chrome wasn't showing up in Zorin's package manager I was easily able to download the Ubuntu version from Chrome's website and install it with a click.  For three, even though I think the default desktop is technically GNOME it's been heavily customized.  Out of the box it looks and behaves a lot like Solus' Budgie desktop, and Windows users will feel right at home.  But if you look under the Appearances tab in Settings you'll find that you can arrange it a couple of different ways, including something more touch friendly, something that looks and feels like MacOS, and something that looks like Ubuntu's Unity desktop.  I'm running it on an old Dell (formerly a Windows 7 laptop), and I'll leave it there since I'm using that one mainly for my daughter to play educational games with.  If you like tinkering to get things just right this is a pretty good OS, but I don't think it's really worth spending $39 over when you'll get a similar experience from Solus.

Deepin: I'm honestly surprised this one isn't more popular.  Of all the distros I've looked at this one has the most polished feel to it, less like open source software developed by a a team of passionate coders and more like a commercial product.  Indeed, I understand Huawei is selling Matebooks in China with Deepin instead of Windows.  It's custom Deepin desktop environment is very easy to use.  On first launch it'll ask you to choose if you want "fashion mode," which looks like MacOS, or "efficient mode," which looks like Windows.  What's nice is you can right click on the taskbar/dock to switch back and forth between them on the fly, so you're not locked into your pick.  Another thing they do differently is that instead of opening in an app window clicking on the settings will open a panel on the side, sort of similar to Windows 10's notification panel.  Installing Chrome was super easy- it's installed by default!  And the real highlight here is the Deepin App Store.  Unlike the package managers found in some other versions of Linux, which just show everything in hosted in its linked repositories as categorized lists, Deepin's App Store looks like, well, an app store.  There's categories, rankings, reviews, and all the sort of stuff you'd expect from a modern app store.  The selection is good- I can find VLC, LibreOffice, console emulators, Gimp, even Steam in the store.  I'm not sure if there's paid software in the store or not, since everything I'd clicked on was free.  If you're a tinkerer you might find that Deepin isn't as customizable as many other distros, but I think the trade off is that it doesn't need as much customization.  This is a pretty great distro, the one I'll be using on my wife's old computer at my desk next to my Windows machine, and one I'd definitely recommend if you're just starting out with Linux.  The only real issue I can see so far is that it's a little more resource-heavy than some of the other distros (but I'm not having any issues on my wife's old computer, an Acer with a Pentium and 6GB of RAM that came out right around the time Windows 8 did and was positively crippled running Windows 10).

The one distro that I didn't test tonight that probably deserves to be mentioned is Linux Mint.  Like Zorin it's based on Ubuntu, but the philosophy behind Mint seems to be "what if we made Ubuntu even easier to use" (which says something, because the point of Ubuntu and the reason it took off like it did in the first place was because it was designed to be "Linux for Humans").  While it's been overtaken recently it spent quite some time as the most popular Linux distro in the world, and while I haven't used the most current version I've used Linux Mint off and on for a few years now.  It's another great choice for a Linux novice, as it's easy to install and runs well out of the box, but it's also very flexible so as you get more comfortable with it you can start tweaking things until it's exactly how you want it.  I'd probably still be using it, and I might go back to it on the old Dell, but as I said earlier even with the Cinnamon desktop it's starting to look a little dated compared to more current versions of Windows or MacOS.

[hachi]

Linux user here. I'm using Ubuntu with XFCE aka Xubuntu. It's lightweight and it's not ugly like Lubuntu. Even though there are other distros out there I stick with Ubuntu because it's the easiest to use for me so far, and I'll find more tutorials for it. My only real problem with Linux are the graphics drivers. Currently I'm stuck on 14.04 bec. of driver concerns, I know I need to upgrade but it's such a pain to fix stuff every time (there's guaranteed to be a hiccup when I upgrade). But such is the price of free--I don't want to pay for Windows if I don't really need it.

[technoblue]

I was a big Linux user back in the day. I ran Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Gentoo. Sad to say, I got complacent (read spoiled) with the usability of Win7 and MacOS at home and let my home Linux machines go over time. At work, I do still use enterprise distros daily by VM: RHEL, SuSE, CentOS. We also use Win10 at the office which is okay but Microsoft could really do better, especially when it comes to vetting their OS updates.

In any case, I've been thinking of repurposing one of my Win7 machines back to Linux. Arch Linux gets positive reviews from friends, and I appreciate how it is another minimal/stable install. That's one of the reasons I chose Debian over its close cousin Ubuntu for certain projects on older hardware. A lot will depend on my end goals, though. I'm flip-flopping between using the machine as a NAS or maybe as a hometheater/casual gaming server with Kodi and Steam on Linux.

I'm still researching all the available options. 

[TangledThorns]

I'm wearing my first watch in over 15 years. The larger watch you see on my wrist is a Mobvoi Ticwatch Pro 4G/LTE and the smaller is my old Citizen WR 100 that I wore throughout my 8 military years in the Coast Guard and Army. I stopped wearing a watch mainly because I was able to tell time with my mobile phone and the watch battery replacement was too much of a hassle. 

Anyways, the smartwatch is cool but its nowhere near a good replacement for a mobile phone. I'll mainly use mine for telling time, playing music through bluetooth on my Samsung Galaxy Buds+, and emergency phone calls. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by TangledThorns

[mikeszekely]

OK, so I'm just going to throw this out there... I'm looking for a new keyboard.  For the last several years I've been using a low-profile chiclet-style keyboard, and while I'd say it's mostly fine it's a tad mushy and my left pinky gets sore if I do a lot of typing on it.

Now, here's the thing... although I'm a PC gamer, I really dislike mechanical keyboards.  I think they're obnoxiously loud, and I do a lot of my gaming at night after my wife and daughter go to sleep.  So, partly because I've had a couple of their mice and headsets (and therefore already have their software on my computer), partly because it got pretty good reviews, and partly because it was cheap enough to roll the dice on I picked up a Razer Cynosa Chroma... and I kind of hate it, you guys.  And I think my problem with it is that, well, it's a regular keyboard.  Which isn't to say that my problem is that they're membrane keys, my problem is that regardless of what's underneath the keys seem to be regular, full-size keys like you'd find on one of their mechanical keyboards.  I'm finding it uncomfortable to type on and I'm making more errors, which I'm chalking up to the longer key travel.

No, of all the keyboards in my house, the one that feels best is actually the one built-in to my Asus Zephyrus laptop.  Yes, it's a chiclet keyboard with little travel, and yes I have other chiclet keyboards with little travel, but it gets back to what I alluded to at the beginning of this post- they're varying ranges of mushy.  And I'm not just talking desktop USB keyboards, either, I'm talking other laptops up to and including an older Razer Blade.  But the keys on this Asus laptop feel nice and crisp.  Typing on this thing is a joy.

So I'm putting a call out and asking for suggestions... can any of you guys recommend a good chiclet-style keyboard for a desktop?  Doesn't have to be a gaming keyboard with RGB lighting or any of that, just something with low, square, chiclet keys that don't feel like I'm pushing them into an underlying layer of cake.  Is Microsoft's Surface keyboard any good (although honestly I'd prefer a wire)?  The Logitech MX Keys?  I mean, I tried googling for some reviews of chiclet keyboards and quite a few recommendations for Logitech came up, but one that was actually recommended, the K830, I actually already own and (surprise) I think it's actually one of the more mushy keyboards I own (not as bad as the K400 that it replaced, but not as good as a still-too-mushy Razer Deathstalker.  Kind of wish stores were actually open so I could see if Best Buy has anything on display I could try out before I buy.

[TangledThorns]

Love my RED-MX mechanical, been rocking it for several years now.

I think Best Buy has keyboards on display, try 'em out when they re-open.

[technoblue]

24 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Love my RED-MX mechanical, been rocking it for several years now.

I think Best Buy has keyboards on display, try 'em out when they re-open.

Mechanical keyboards reward efficient touch typists. For those keyboard wizards, only blue switches will make any real noise. For the rest of us who bang on our keys with heavy fingers, all mechanical switches have the potential to bottom out and make more noise. I recommend adding rubber o-rings if you want to quiet that down too. 

Here's a link to some blue o-rings. I use the red ones. They come in different colors and sizes.

https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Rubber-Ring-Switch-Dampeners/dp/B00AZQ2OF8

For a chicklet style keyboard with decent travel, I think Apple makes some of the better full-sized boards (wired and wireless) although you will have to reassign some of the Mac-specific keys if you are not running MacOS.  The Logitech MX Keys is also a nice option but this board is wireless only.

[mikeszekely]

I must be some kind of walking contradiction. I'm a touch-typist* that hates mechanical keyboards.

Well, I don't know when they'll be open to customers again, but I hope Best Buy has the Logitech MX Keys, Microsoft Surface Keyboard, and Apple Magic Keyboard on display. I'm willing to pay a premium for a keyboard that has the right feel, even if it's not backlit and even I'm paying for wireless features I don't really want (at least the MX Keys is rechargable). But at $100-$150 they're to expensive to buy and hope for the best.

*Admittedly not the fastest; last time I tested I think I was around 60 words per minute. Maybe I should look for testing software and evaluate different keyboards I already have our have access to; maybe if I were more used to them I could learn to prefer full-size keys and mechanical switches.

Edited May 8, 2020 by mikeszekely

[technoblue]

The MX keys does have illumination. The downside of that keyboard is that it's wireless only. Logitech gives you a cable to recharge it using a USB connection, but that cable won't give you the benefit of a wired keyboard connection which stinks. Even with the price, and the fact that I'm more of a mechanical keyboard user, it would have been easy to recommend as a well-rounded item if that feature had been included.

For mechanical keyboards, I will second @TangledThorns recommendation for Red MX keys. If you get a good quality keyboard, you may not even need o-rings with reds.

Here's a good example (from youtube):

• Cherry MX Red Keyboard Test

 

 

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

The MX keys does have illumination.

Yeah, but the Surface Keyboard and Apple Magic Keyboards don't.

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

The downside of that keyboard is that it's wireless only. Logitech gives you a cable to recharge it using a USB connection, but that cable won't give you the benefit of a wired keyboard connection which stinks. Even with the price, and the fact that I'm more of a mechanical keyboard user, it would have been easy to recommend as a well-rounded item if that feature had been included.

To my knowledge all three keyboards I mentioned are meant to connect via Bluetooth.  The Apple and Logitech keyboards are rechargeable, and the Surface Keyboard uses AAA batteries.  That puts the Surface keyboard at a disadvantage, because one assumes if the batteries die in the Apple or Logitech you can just plug them into your computer and continue to use them while you charge but if the Surface goes you have to go hunting for batteries (of a size that I don't have a ton of lying around, unlike AA).  Neither the Logitech nor the Surface keyboard transmit data over USB, but it sounds like the Apple might.  While I'd prefer straight-up wired, if the connection is reliable I don't play any kind of twitch gaming in a competitive setting and I'm unlikely to notice a real difference.  Barring any major differences in feel I don't think I'm willing to spend $50 more just to have that feature.  As I mentioned before, though, feel is a feature I'm totally willing to spend on, which I why I really want to try before I buy.

And speaking of feel, I found a free test on TypingTest.com. I did the three-minute text test (Aesop's Fables), and I did a few practice runs to try to keep familiarity with the text from skewing later results.  A is the Razer Deathstalker Chroma I've been using on my desktop for the last four or five years, B is the Razer Cynosa Chroma I bought to replace it, and C is the keyboard built into the ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14.  (Ignore x, that was a canceld test I started to do on the Cynosa before the driver finished installing and the keyboard cut out,)

While I was fastest on the laptop, it was only by a second more than the Deathstalker.  That's within a margin of error I'd likely get even if I took repeated tests on the same keyboard.  Now I'm no expert, but the difference between the two chiclet-style keyboards and the Cynosa with its more traditional keycaps seems statistically more significant.  However, between laptops and the Deathstalker I'd been using (and, if I think about it, the older Logitech keyboards I'd used before the Deathstalker like the K800 and MK700), I'm more familiar with and more comfortable typing on chiclet-style keyboards.  If I were to use the Cynosa regularly for awhile I could probably make up that 5-second difference after awhile.

I kind of wish I had a mechanical keyboard to try the test on, but I'm sure it'd take even more practice for me to use than the Cynosa.  A friend of mine does use a mechanical keyboard, but I haven't seen him since our state locked down.  I tried typing on it years ago, and I kept bottoming out.  Years of typing on chiclets have trained me to tap the keys in more or less all the way.  Indeed, my preference for them over the traditional keycaps over the rubber dome switches on the Cynosa probably has a lot to do with key travel.  To my fingers shorter is better.

[Jaustin89]

My current keyboard is a Steel Series Apex Pro; definately not a chichlet style key but If you're big hangup with mechanical keys is the actuation point the Apex Pro uses optomechanical switches that you can adjust the actuation point of on a per key basis in the customization software.

I've only had it for a few months and haven't really done much customization but I've had no issues. I think I actually find the keystrokes better than the MX Cherry Reds in my old logitech keyboard.

[mikeszekely]

1 minute ago, Jaustin89 said:

My current keyboard is a Steel Series Apex Pro; definately not a chichlet style key but If you're big hangup with mechanical keys is the actuation point the Apex Pro uses optomechanical switches that you can adjust the actuation point of on a per key basis in the customization software.

I've only had it for a few months and haven't really done much customization but I've had no issues. I think I actually find the keystrokes better than the MX Cherry Reds in my old logitech keyboard.

Appreciate the insight, but I'm afraid (without re-training how I type) that the travel to actuation is less of an issue than the total travel, because I'll instinctively press until it bottoms out.

What I really want is a scissor switch (which is what's in my laptop, the Razer Deathstalker, and the Logitech K700 I own), but the crispest, least mushy scissor switch.  The keys on this Zephyrus laptop are nearly (my definition) of perfect, and the old MacBook (1st MacBook with an Intel CPU) I had I remember being similarly good.  The Razer Blade I used before I bought the Zephyrus is good, but not as good.  I think (despite some positive comments I've read) that the K700 is too mushy, and while the Deathstalker is better than the K700 it's still not crisp enough.

Eh, I liked the old MacBook keyboard.  Maybe I'll like the Magic Keyboard.  They come with iMacs, right?  I know Best Buy has those on display, should be easy to find a unit to test.

[azrael]

20 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

OK, so I'm just going to throw this out there... I'm looking for a new keyboard.  For the last several years I've been using a low-profile chiclet-style keyboard, and while I'd say it's mostly fine it's a tad mushy and my left pinky gets sore if I do a lot of typing on it.

...

So you want wired or wireless?

[mikeszekely]

4 minutes ago, azrael said:

So you want wired or wireless?

I'm not married to either; the single most important factor for me right now is the feel of the scissor switches.  But my order of preference is wired, wireless but it can be used wired, wireless with a rechargeable battery I can keep using it while it's charging, user-replaceable AAs, any other user replaceable batteries.

 

[technoblue]

5 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Yeah, but the Surface Keyboard and Apple Magic Keyboards don't.

Oh! Understood. I completely missed that connection before. 

As you say, all the keyboards you mentioned should connect over Bluetooth. The MX Keys can also connect to Logitech's wireless USB dongle which gives you another option in case you want to use it with a system that doesn't already have Bluetooth built in. But I would only go that route when you don't have a choice. In my own experience, I've seen how USB dongles can be finicky in certain environments, so it's probably better to use Bluetooth where you can. 

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

I'm not married to either; the single most important factor for me right now is the feel of the scissor switches.  But my order of preference is wired, wireless but it can be used wired, wireless with a rechargeable battery I can keep using it while it's charging, user-replaceable AAs, any other user replaceable batteries.

Another alternative that fits your need for scissor switches and wired/wireless keyboard options is Matias. They are a third-party Apple keyboard manufacturer. Alas, I can't speak to how these feel up close since I haven't used one myself but it does look like they have some backlit options as well. Here is their homepage:

https://matias.ca/

[mikeszekely]

19 minutes ago, technoblue said:

Another alternative that fits your need for scissor switches and wired/wireless keyboard options is Matias. They are a third-party Apple keyboard manufacturer. Alas, I can't speak to how these feel up close since I haven't used one myself but it does look like they have some backlit options as well. Here is their homepage:

https://matias.ca/

I'll ask around about them.

Really, after reading up on scissor switches, I'm starting to suspect that a lot of the mushiness that's bugging me on a lot of chiclet keyboards is a longer throw and bottoming out on plastic.  I'm thinking an aluminum keyboard, or at least a plastic keyboard with a metal base under the domes, is probably a step in the right direction.

Oh, and not that it truly matters, but the keyboard's for and Asus ROG Strix GL12CX desktop with Windows 10.  It supports Bluetooth 5.0, so no worries there.

Come to think of it the laptop does, too.  And the MX Keys supports multiple devices.  If I did end up going that route I suppose I could use it on my desktop most of the time, but I could occasionally hook my laptop up to my TV and use the MX Keys to play games from the couch.  I couldn't use the same mouse for both, but I already have a Razer Basilisk wireless mouse I bought just for the laptop.

[azrael]

Without being able to try stuff in-store for the time being, MX Keys is probably your best bet or the K750. I used a K750 (before my coffee mug happened to have landed on it, breaking the glass on the solar panel...) and it was basically a chiclet keyboard. How good is the MX Keys for gaming? Don't know.