The computer and electronics super geek thread

[SchizophrenicMC]

I'm not such a huge fan of onboard peripheral controllers, though. I mean A) there's only so much room in an ATX-compliant IO form factor, and B) I've had enough integrated peripherals fail with the only way to replace them being replacing the whole mobo, which is usually more money than I have to spend to fix a sound controller dropping out or a fixed USB bus freaking out because it thinks it's saturated on a keyboard because mobos are built too cheaply. Maybe the problem is I keep owning junk mobos. Maybe that's everybody's problem. Maybe that is the single greatest problem in modern computing:

Motherboards suck. And making the motherboard do more things may be marginally faster, but I'd really just rather make them better at letting a bunch of expansion cards use other system resources more efficiently. Then I wouldn't be so tied down by making the choice between one set of features I want and another, like having a lot of stock IO but not a lot of expansion capacity, or having the choice of either SATA 3.0 support OR USB 3.0 support between 2 boards. Just give me a lot of expansion capacity so I can build the computer I need. You know, I mean, we've already detached graphical output from most non-OEM mobos. Of the two human interface devices a computer needs, the market has already decided that the output device is suitable to be left to expansion controllers alone.

I'm just a little tired of dead USB buses trashing an entire motherboard.

[spanner]

Sometime in 2016. So how long do you want to wait?

I guess I can hold out till then.. Im still weighing up building a whole new gaming pc or just doing a few key upgrades such as video card and maybe larger ssd capacity.. I only built the pc I currently have back in Feb 2013 and since then already upgraded the video card once now a GTX780Ti, fitted a larger cpu water cooler to enable clock speeds of up to and over 5ghz.. I can run my 3770K at 5.2 in the winter and 4.8 in the summer. I think the cpu should suffice for another year or two. Well here's hoping anyways.. so yeah not sure what to do. Video card seems easy.

[JB0]

I'm not such a huge fan of onboard peripheral controllers, though. I mean A) there's only so much room in an ATX-compliant IO form factor, and B) I've had enough integrated peripherals fail with the only way to replace them being replacing the whole mobo, which is usually more money than I have to spend to fix a sound controller dropping out or a fixed USB bus freaking out because it thinks it's saturated on a keyboard because mobos are built too cheaply. Maybe the problem is I keep owning junk mobos. Maybe that's everybody's problem. Maybe that is the single greatest problem in modern computing:

You know, I've thought before it'd be great to make the entire ATX backplane out of little lego blocks. Just run some PCIE lanes back there, and start snapping bricks on.

Heck, even shifting to mini-PCIE cards for most purposes would be awesome. There's not really a good reason for us to be using the same expansion card form factor that we used in 1981 for the most part.

Motherboards suck. And making the motherboard do more things may be marginally faster, but I'd really just rather make them better at letting a bunch of expansion cards use other system resources more efficiently. Then I wouldn't be so tied down by making the choice between one set of features I want and another, like having a lot of stock IO but not a lot of expansion capacity, or having the choice of either SATA 3.0 support OR USB 3.0 support between 2 boards. Just give me a lot of expansion capacity so I can build the computer I need. You know, I mean, we've already detached graphical output from most non-OEM mobos. Of the two human interface devices a computer needs, the market has already decided that the output device is suitable to be left to expansion controllers alone.

I'm just a little tired of dead USB buses trashing an entire motherboard.

Actually, we're shifting back towards integrated graphics for everything that isn't a gaming build. Intel builds a quite functional graphics chip into almost every processor they make these days.

Incidentally, the reason IBM didn't make heavy use of integrated peripherals originally was reliability concerns with the parts of the era. And, of course, it kind of caused problems because the 5150 only had 5 slots, and any sort of functional machine was using ALL OF THEM.

As reliability went up, and component size went down, we started seeing more integral peripherals(starting with serial ports and disk controllers).

Now we're at a point where there simply isn't enough IO on offer to hook up everything people want, so you have to choose between more USB3 or more SATA or a second graphics card... you know what, if you have multiple graphics cards you deserve to suffer. Using multiple cards to render one screen is stupid and has been for a long time and you can quote me on that.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Just as an aside, I work for IBM, provisioning and maintaining hardware. The only integrated peripherals we recommend using are the NICs and onboard IPMI/KVM. Unless the machine is being used in a 10G application, in which case, PCIE NICs. We won't provision a machine with SSDs or any kind of SAS config without a standalone RAID controller, and we don't support soft RAID. All hard drives are physically connected to backplanes, even in applications where only one drive will be used. We even used to use standalone IPMI cards, but our mobo supplier finally started making integrated IPMI systems that actually work. Usually. They're still pretty bad about randomly resetting their IPMI configuration. Dev is apparently working on this, but it still requires tons of manual (read: time-consuming) intervention. Actually we've got serious problems with newer mobos that have USB3.0 losing their 3.0 ports. BIOS doesn't recognize them 70% of the time. We require USB2.0 on all machines for direct console use because onboard 3.0 just isn't there. Reliability is our number one concern, and we've got it for the most part. But, parts fail. That's a fact. And if you have too many parts integrated into the mobo, you will be replacing a lot of mobos. That's expensive and time consuming.

I think multiple graphics cards is dumb for gaming, but if you plan on rendering any video or CGI, you'll need a lot of time with only one card. And if time is money, you might be better off spending some money to save some render time. I don't play a lot of games anymore, so I'm looking at all of this from a productivity perspective. Sometimes you need a lot of peripherals, a lot of write speed, and a lot of graphics crunching. I know for a fact we have one video crunching server in my DC with 2 graphics cards, 256GB of RAM, and 4 1.2TB SSDs in a RAID10, with an additional 4 2TB HDDs in another RAID10. You do not want to know how much that server costs the customer monthly.

[JB0]

All makes sense from a professional standpoint. I was looking at it from the home user perspective.

I'm curious why not use the integrated graphics. I'd figure most anything that takes out CPU-integral graphics would also take out the CPU itself, so it seems like a winner to me, unless it's for hardware consistency.

Or is this a case of "we have a text terminal, graphics are for chumps"? Which is, again, a thing that makes sense.

I have had motherboards where PART of the IO chip failed. Actually, I lost the keyboard and mouse ports, but still had everything else.

This was a socket 7 board, so that was kind of a catastrophic failure. Didn't matter if the hard drive controller worked fine, I couldn't DO anything with it. And yeah, good luck finding a keyboard interface card to fix THAT.

[SchizophrenicMC]

For servers, we use integrated graphics, but only because we're the only people using the graphics outputs and they have a really hard time causing downtime for customers. Our workstations use expansion graphics to run dual monitor output though. Of course, between the age of our VGA cables, the age of the crash cart monitors, and the age of some of these server mobos it can take awhile to figure out which component is causing no display on a server that POSTs when viewed in IPMI. It's usually cables, but I've dealt with more than one failed mobo graphical out. When that happens, it necessitates a chassis swap, which is a pain for everybody involved.

Now, I will grant that expansion peripherals fail a lot more often than integrated peripherals at work. Or, at least, we get alerted of it more often. Customers don't often realize their onboard SATA controller is doing weird things, not individual hard drives. (Though it is a fair assumption that a hard drive would be causing the trouble) When a dedicated RAID controller is doing something weird, it sends an automated alert to our management system. And to be fair, most RAID controller problems are actually related to their peripheral battery backups.

Obviously, the 2 most common problems are hard drives and RAM. But man is it a pain when something mobo integrated does funny stuff, because fixing that requires removing every component from a server individually, building a new server for the customer, carrying all the old parts, including the server chassis, up and across the building, and carting the new parts down and across for the new provision. And then you have to deal with the RMA process for the mobo and try to keep a customer happy with the extensive downtime they have to go through as a result of this ordeal. It's just not fun. I can replace a RAID controller in 20 minutes, with another half hour for automated setup and verification. Including provisioning time, it can take a whole shift to chassis swap a server.

[anime52k8]

So I'm going to pick up a new phone soon and I'm trying to decide between a GS6 and a Note5, any thoughts?

[mikeszekely]

So I'm going to pick up a new phone soon and I'm trying to decide between a GS6 and a Note5, any thoughts?

I've heard both are good, although I can't stand Samsung's Android skins myself. I think the main differences could down to size a stylus and an extra gig of RAM.

Edited November 2, 2015 by mikeszekely

[Sildani]

Were I in the market for a new Android, Nexus 5X. If for no other reason than the guaranteed timely Android updates straight from Google. Security is a big concern for me with that OS. Nexus 6P if you have to go that big.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Sildani

[David Hingtgen]

Dang it, PC couldn't find boot drive (SSD) again. Unplugged and replugged its data cable again, and it started right up. But it's damned annoying to have random failures that require removing the mobo-side case panel. (As in, not the side that's usually opened). I'm going to have to see about mounting SSD somewhere else and with a different brand etc of cable.

[SchizophrenicMC]

So I'm going to pick up a new phone soon and I'm trying to decide between a GS6 and a Note5, any thoughts?

Skip the S6. My dad has one and he hates it. Also the Note5. My best friend has one and he hates it. Samsung have gone a bit stupid lately.

I, for one, have been generally impressed with the LG G4. I've also heard good things about the Nexus 6P, but I don't really keep up with the Nexuses since they've historically been a bit incredibly lackluster.

Dang it, PC couldn't find boot drive (SSD) again. Unplugged and replugged its data cable again, and it started right up. But it's damned annoying to have random failures that require removing the mobo-side case panel. (As in, not the side that's usually opened). I'm going to have to see about mounting SSD somewhere else and with a different brand etc of cable.

What kind of SSD is it, and how old? Replace the cable first, to be sure. That's the cheapest solution. But if the SSD is a bit old, random unbootable errors can be caused by the drive itself. At work we require all SSDs to be provisioned in conjunction with a PCI RAID controller to detect media errors before they make the drive go unbootable or die completely, which is a big issue. We're seeing lifespans under 2 years for most SSDs, compared to 3-7 years for various models of HDD, at least in server applications. None of this is to say the SSD is the cause, but I'm leery enough to keep my eye on the drive and the motherboard as potential causes, even after changing the mounting and replacing the cable.

[David Hingtgen]

SSD (the whole PC actually) is practically brand new. Samsung 850 EVO.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah I doubt it's the drive then. Faulty cables seem most likely. You might also consider updating the BIOS if it's not the most up-to-date version available, as well as any drive controller firmware for board and disk. Those can each cause their own problems, and it's free and mostly painless to rule them out.

[VF-19]

Well, looks like my AMD 7970 might have bitten the dust. Had crashes and severe graphical glitches before the card crashes. Thought it was heat related (because what isn't?), and gave the card and the whole PC a good cleaning... Which resulted in longer periods of stability. I think, before I go and buy a shiny new (and EXPENSIVE) videocard, I think a good tear down and cleaning job might be in order...

[technoblue]

Dust does insulate, so I think you are on the right track.

You may also want to think about rearranging fans and redirecting airflow so that less dust hangs around inside the case.

SSD (the whole PC actually) is practically brand new. Samsung 850 EVO.

I agree that it sounds like a connection issue. The best case is that you are just dealing with a loose cable as SMC suggests. The worst case is that the connector on the motherboard or the drive is flaking out. I don't think it is a complete drive failure...yet... since your data hasn't turned into smoke.

If a new cable doesn't help, then the motherboard is easier to diagnose. I would recommend trying out other on-board SATA connections. If another one gives you joy and is stable, then you have a flaky port. In this case, tape up the bad port and avoid it or replace the board if you feel lucky. If after trying the other ports, you find that the SSD is still disconnecting, try another computer. That will help you to determine if it's a software problem. Hopefully, you won't have to go down the rabbit hole that far, though.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Well, looks like my AMD 7970 might have bitten the dust. Had crashes and severe graphical glitches before the card crashes. Thought it was heat related (because what isn't?), and gave the card and the whole PC a good cleaning... Which resulted in longer periods of stability. I think, before I go and buy a shiny new (and EXPENSIVE) videocard, I think a good tear down and cleaning job might be in order...

funny, i just replaced my 7970m crossfire in my laptop. these cards need a repaste every year or 2. try that if cleaning doesn't work before throwing it out. i'm still under extended warranty so i didn't do a repaste, just swapped out with new cards they sent me with a new heat sink assembly (2x). (new alienware heat sinks come stock with thermal pads and Thermal Interface Material pre applied)

let us know what happens. even if you upgrade, if that card still works, you can sell it used for about 300 on ebay.

Edited November 3, 2015 by davidwhangchoi

[mikeszekely]

David (H), is your mobo an Asus, by chance?

[David Hingtgen]

Yes it is. Z97-AR

[mikeszekely]

Feel free to try the other suggestions, but I think it's just an issue with Asus mobos. My desktop (Asus mobo, but I can't remember/am too lazy to check the model) would run fine for the longest time, but every so often would boot up and tell me that there was no boot device. Every time I'd have to go in and futz with the BIOS settings before it'd detect and remember that it was supposed to be booting from an SSD. Updating the BIOS/firmware didn't do diddly, either. Eventually the mobo quit detecting that SSD entirely. I replaced it with a different SSD which was detected fine and I haven't had that SSD problem anymore, but now my PC will at times refuse to POST. It'll be maybe one boot up out of 20. And when it happens, I just shut it all back down, wait a moment, and start it all back up again.

I swear, last Asus mobo I'm buying. My previous mobo was also an Asus, and while I didn't have any weird issues like that (of course, I also wasn't using SSDs then) and it took forever to boot. Not because my hard drive was slow or Windows took too long to boot, but because it'd take forever to show a splash screen and run the POST. I'm talking like 30 second before it'd even try to load Windows.

[VF-19]

I'm not looking too forward to tearing the card down... Also, I found out the fun way that my old 4870 isn't properly supported in Windows 10. 1074x768 4:3 looks butt ugly on a 50 inch screen... It also means no flight simming or Elite till I either fix (hopefully) the card or get a new toy.

I can't do too much about the incoming dust. The pc is on a carpeted surface (sitting on a plank, however), and I have cats.

[azrael]

I swear, last Asus mobo I'm buying. My previous mobo was also an Asus, and while I didn't have any weird issues like that (of course, I also wasn't using SSDs then) and it took forever to boot. Not because my hard drive was slow or Windows took too long to boot, but because it'd take forever to show a splash screen and run the POST. I'm talking like 30 second before it'd even try to load Windows.

I'm gonna have to agree with this. My last revision with a ASUS P55 board ran without a problem for years. When I upgraded with a Z87, things just went downhill. It did not OC stable at only a minor OC of 100-150 Mhz. Then it had voltage issues that caused the watch battery to drain. Then the onboard sound died. Thankfully, the Z97 was just a fixed Z87. But after the last BIOS update, my system went from solid to unstable in a heartbeat. Fixed that issue mostly by downgrading to a pre-USB 3.1-support BIOS. Now I just get Windows boot freezes with every other boot. Whatever mobo I go with next will not be an ASUS board.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah, Asus in general has really dropped their QC standards. MSi and Gigabyte seem to be better options at the moment. If you need something dead reliable, you might try SuperMicro, but they are slow as all hell. POST times over a minute are just normal operation, even on the new X10s.

[technoblue]

I second the recommendation for Gigabyte, if it is a motherboard issue.

I have a local friend who also swore off of Asus, but he did so back when AMD and Intel were still releasing slot-based CPUs. I had better luck than he did, but I decided to NEVER overclock an Asus motherboard. After seeing him struggle with it, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle. There were other manufacturers who released better parts, even back then. For overclocking, I had my best results with Abit boards. It's too bad that company is long out of the computer parts business.

[David Hingtgen]

My previous MOBO was Giga, will likely go back to them.

[Knight26]

Does anyone know of a good, preferably free or cheap, wifi monitoring app/program that I can track our houses data usage across all the hardware connected to it? It looks like I might have a data vampire and I am want to track it down. Something that allows me to remotely cap a device's data usage would be great too.

[frothymug]

Have you tried using a whitelist setting on your router? Kind of a pain in the ass if you have a lot of wifi devices, but it ensures that no pesky leeches get some of your bandwidth.

[azrael]

Tried one of these methods to monitor?

How to Monitor Your Internet Bandwidth Usage and Avoid Exceeding Data Caps (How to Geek.com)

[Knight26]

Glasswire looks good, but can it monitor multiple machines?

[azrael]

Glasswire looks good, but can it monitor multiple machines?

Looks like the paid versions can. The free version doesn't appear to support that feature. Keep in mind that Glasswire only works on PCs. You'll need to find a way to track usage on phones, tablets, gaming consoles or other devices.

[Knight26]

I spoke to my stepson's dad today and his router has everything I am looking for built in plus an app that allows him to monitor from his computer and phone. I asked him to get me the brand and model, might be time to retire and replace the old circa 2004 linksys. Maybe I should go with an enterprise level wifi router.

[azrael]

I spoke to my stepson's dad today and his router has everything I am looking for built in plus an app that allows him to monitor from his computer and phone. I asked him to get me the brand and model, might be time to retire and replace the old circa 2004 linksys. Maybe I should go with an enterprise level wifi router.

Probably time that you do. Enterprise-level routers..... are you planning to run an entire business out of your home? VPN, DMZ, 10,000 users, several Wi-Fi access points around the home? An enterprise router would fit, but you'll spend a lot of time configuring it to your liking. I see enterprise equipment like that as needing to control your network with precise control, i.e., control of all 65535 ports, needing several WAPs, remote management over a large property and several dozen smaller control units, precise network security control, etc.. On the bright side, you will never need a new router for a decade but I don't think the cost would justify the features would and wouldn't use.

[VF-19]

Well, finally got my replacement video card yesterday.

I've also got a bit of a cautionary tale for you too. In short, Canada Computers retail outlets are great. Fast service, and smart employees. Their online store is terrible. Poor/no communication, and any attempts at communication results in not being able to reach anybody. The only reason why I went with Canada Computers was because they had the card I wanted for sale that week.

Now, I did get my video card, but it took over a week for them to even SHIP the darn thing.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Get a cheap craigslist PC, buy some cheap wireless NICs, install pfSense, you done. You just won't have dual band support. Yet.

[myk]

Did 4 years really go by since I bought my gaming laptop?

Looks like I need to upgrade. I'm looking to spend no more than $2K. Now I thought that would be a lot of money, but it actually limits my choices of configurations; seems that most of the machines are either well north of that number or well below it. Questions: why is it that a lot of machines no longer have an optical drive? I feel stupid for asking, but I use my gaming laptop for EVERYTHING, including running my growing blu-ray collection, and I love how adding a blu ray drive adds hundreds to the final price, and sometimes WITHOUT the drivers to run the drive! How about memory? Everyone's trying to cram memory down my throat but I don't see the need for anything more than 16 G's of RAM; do I really need 24+? I won't mention CPU and GPU specs because with the models I'm looking at it's usually a solid i7 and a 980 GTX, respectively.

I'm bummed that they seem to be trending away from 18.4" screens like my current machine, but oh well; I'm not going to go the Alienware route and spend that much more so I'll learn to live with a 17.3" screen. Finally, I'm expecting a dual HDD setup with an SSD for the OS and the usual TB sized drive for everything else. Am I missing anything else? What should I be looking for? Any brand recommendations? I seem to be only seeing ACER, MSI and.....well not anyone else, really...

[JB0]

Questions: why is it that a lot of machines no longer have an optical drive? I feel stupid for asking, but I use my gaming laptop for EVERYTHING, including running my growing blu-ray collection, and I love how adding a blu ray drive adds hundreds to the final price, and sometimes WITHOUT the drivers to run the drive!

Because optical drives aren't cool anymore. You're supposed to be living in the streamed cloud now, or something.