The computer and electronics super geek thread

[David Hingtgen]

Seems odd to require a GPU just to display boot text, but...

[azrael]

15 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Seems odd to require a GPU just to display boot text, but...

If people run discrete GPUs, then a iGPU is taking space on the CPU die which could be used for other things. Given the current shortages and price gouging, AMD is finally realizing selling a "modern" Zen 3 on-die GPU-CPU might actually be beneficial to them since this shortage is probably is going to last into 2022. And while Vega graphics are workable-1080p-gaming-graphics, it's better than no GPU at all. Still better than Intel's not-worth-gaming-iGPU.

Speaking of moving taskbars, I see another person with the taskbar off the bottom of the screen. Now that MS is taking that ability away, I'm noticing more people with taskbars being placed somewhere other than the bottom now.

[kajnrig]

I've never taken it off the bottom just because I've never felt the need to. Where do some of you move it, and why/what benefit does it provide?

[technoblue]

14 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I've never taken it off the bottom just because I've never felt the need to. Where do some of you move it, and why/what benefit does it provide?

On the last page, @hachi noted that he moved the taskbar to the top for ergonomic reasons to help ease wrist strain. I pointed out that there's a how-to geek article talking about the benefits of putting the taskbar on the left-hand side when using different resolutions as it gives more space to the desktop. It even mentions the ability to move similar elements on MacOS and Linux. Here's the link to the article:

https://www.howtogeek.com/706245/why-your-windows-taskbar-should-always-be-on-the-left-side/

I'm sure there are other reasons. I've seen funky taskbar configurations for people who like to use fancy desktop themes too. Anyway, different strokes and so on, which is why removing the default Windows option is even more confusing to me. I mean, why irritate a percentage of desktop users for no reason, unless this is something that was miscommunicated in the marketing material and the press and only applies to Windows 11 in tablet mode? 

[David Hingtgen]

Repaired (I won't call it new, or really even upgraded, even if core parts are better than they were) PC is working.  Actually booted into Windows with less drama than I expected.  

Sadly, I either dreamed my last backup or something, as my main backup is both months older than I recall, and less complete than I recall.

Original boot SSD seems fine, I was worried based on the HDD and DVD.  So now my question is---that SSD is 6 years old now.  Should I replace it soon, just in case?   It's a Samsung Evo 850.  

[mikeszekely]

19 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Original boot SSD seems fine, I was worried based on the HDD and DVD.  So now my question is---that SSD is 6 years old now.  Should I replace it soon, just in case?   It's a Samsung Evo 850.  

It's the SSD giving you any grief? Do you have the important data on it backed up? While early ssd's had some issues that lead to relatively short lifespans, and some people do suggest replacing an SSD after 5-7 years, a modern SSD with a large capacity and wear leveling should last closer to 10-20 years in practice (and, in theory, maybe a century or two).

[azrael]

1 hour ago, David Hingtgen said:

Original boot SSD seems fine, I was worried based on the HDD and DVD.  So now my question is---that SSD is 6 years old now.  Should I replace it soon, just in case?   It's a Samsung Evo 850.  

You can use CrystalDiskInfo to check on your SSD's health. Now if you think the SSD was affected by your power issues, then maybe you should consider getting a new one.

[David Hingtgen]

Amazingly, my burned HDD still works!   (I didn't try it until now until I had an external adapter, to isolate it a bit from  the new mobo etc in case it had developed an internal short or something)

Transferred all my "important but somehow not on latest backup" files to my backup, and am now transferring simply everything onto a new SSD I picked up from BestBuy today.  

So it seems the 3.3v ground pins on a SATA HDD truly are pointless, as mine are all physically melted away but it spun right up the first try.  

Now I'm kinda wondering if I could have saved my DVD-writer.  It was burned even worse so I just tossed it, but I assume it's less finicky than an HDD.  

[mikeszekely]

So... anyone else using Windows 11 yet?  I didn't put it on my desktop because I need that to play Far Cry 6, but I went ahead and did the upgrade on my laptop, and then later on my wife's laptop.  Honestly, it's been one of the most painless OS upgrades I've done on a Windows PC.  I haven't used it a ton yet, mostly just web browsing and email, but here's my initial impressions.

-I dig the look.  Honestly, I thought Vista and Windows 7 looked better than 8 and 10; the transparencies felt modern and the flat UI that was all the rage in the early 2010s always felt like a step backward to me.  I like that 11 brings back transparencies, but in a more subtle way.  I also dig the rounded corners on windows, but to be totally fair it's nothing Linux wasn't doing years ago.

-The new Start Menu is fine.  After Windows 8 I was leery of the fact that MS was changing the Start Menu again.  Thing is, you can pin apps you use a lot, and that works like the Live tiles on Windows 8.1/10 except they take up less space and don't have information you probably weren't checking anyway.  I've heard some people complain that there's an extra click to see a list of all the installed programs.  I suppose that's valid, but more often than not I'd just start typing the name of the program I wanted if I didn't have a Live tile for it, and the search bar is still right there.

-I kind of like the centered task bar buttons.  I mean, I figured I'd like it on a tablet like the Surface.  And I also expected that I'd be more tolerant of this change since I'm also used to using various Linux distros, MacOS, and ChromeOS.  When I first saw the centered buttons I immediately wanted to move them back to the left (which you totally can do), but I decided to give the centered icons a try for awhile.  And now, I think I'm actually starting to prefer it.

-Widgets are back, I guess, but I didn't use them back in the day and I don't see myself wasting the RAM on them now, especially since they seem to require signing in with a Microsoft account.  It's easy enough to just shut them off.

-On the whole, I think it's prettier than Windows 10, but really not that different.  Even stuff like right-clicking the empty space on the desktop... the context menu looks shiny and new, but you can click "more options" to bring up the old context menu... and then realize they have pretty much the same stuff, just in a slightly different order.  MS has been steering us toward the newer "Settings" app since Windows 8, but if you search for it the Control Panel is still around.

-The ability to run Android apps is a big deal... but it's also no available yet.  So... meh?

So I guess my recommendation is do upgrade to Windows 11.  Or don't.  Because right now, I don't think there's really a compelling need to upgrade- most of the time, for most users, it's going to behave pretty much the way you're used to Windows 10 behaving.  Heck, I saw my wife using her computer for awhile yesterday after I updated it, and I don't even think she noticed that anything was different.  But there's nothing broken, either, at least in my experience.  I haven't had any crashes, no trouble with programs or apps that worked in Windows 10 not working in 11, no hangups or issues doing an upgrade in place, etc.

[technoblue]

I haven't been worried about annoying Windows installations since the Windows 9x days. My observation is that Microsoft has been creating a more user-friendly installation process with each release since Windows XP. Windows 10 surprised me, in fact. It was the first Windows release where I switched critical hardware components (the CPU, GPU, and motherboard in a relative's PC) and the OS simply found and installed all the required system-level drivers without mucking things up. Previously, doing something like that would almost certainly have required a fresh Windows install.

So when I think about Windows 11, one question comes to mind: Why? I don't really need the UI facelift. I don't have an Android phone, so the promise of that usability feature does nothing for my workflow. I've read that the integrated Linux subsystem components are improved over Windows 10, and that IS cool, but then I have to ask myself, why not just load Linux instead (especially on an older system that doesn't satisfy the TPM requirements)?

What I was really hoping for from Windows 11 was some quality of life improvements. For instance, native or improved support for those of us with multi-core (read >4 core) CPUs and large amounts of installed system memory. Improved multi-core performance over Windows 10 would have been a big carrot. Alas, the early reports that I've read note that these enhancements just aren't there at the moment, meaning that this is another thing waving me off.

For me, another red flag is the reported day-one release bug that slows down AMD CPUs by 15%. I have two systems built around Ryzen processors here at home and would rather avoid dealing with early adopter issues like this. I'm actually surprised this performance bug wasn't caught during validation and testing. Oh well, I'm okay waiting for six months or even a year to see how things look then.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

For me, another red flag is the reported day-one release bug that slows down AMD CPUs by 15%. I have two systems built around Ryzen processors here at home and would rather avoid dealing with early adopter issues like this. I'm actually surprised this performance bug wasn't caught during validation and testing.

For what it's worth, my laptop has a Ryzen 4900HS CPU, and I haven't noticed any performance issues.  Then again, I haven't used much more than Chrome and Mail since upgrading.  Tomorrow I'll try running Far Cry 6 on it.

[technoblue]

9 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

For what it's worth, my laptop has a Ryzen 4900HS CPU, and I haven't noticed any performance issues.  Then again, I haven't used much more than Chrome and Mail since upgrading.  Tomorrow I'll try running Far Cry 6 on it.

That's a nice mobile CPU. It would be interesting to see the Windows 11 numbers, if you get a chance to check out Far Cry on it.

Myself, I have a mixed environment at home. An older Ivy Bridge system running an i5-3570k and WIndows 7 (yeah, I want to repurpose this at some point; that i5 processor still has a good life ahead of it), a Ryzen 5 3600 HTPC (a terrific match for 1080p), and a Ryzen 5 5950x that I keep putting off building as other things come up in my schedule. This will become my main replacement desktop once it's finished. I just need to block out the time to work on it. I also have my work laptop and my own M1 Macbook Air that I use for writing projects. The laptops are basically writing tools, though, so I don't really play around with them too much.

The last system I built was a month back---the upgrade that I did for my relatives. I moved them from a Haswell-based CPU to a Ryzen 3900x. Like I said, Windows 10 only asked to reboot a few times to collect all the required drivers and then went on its merry way. I think the only thing I had to do was verify a few settings in the UEFI BIOS and install AMD's chipset drivers. That was it.

Edited October 8, 2021 by technoblue

[pengbuzz]

On 7/1/2021 at 3:19 AM, azrael said:

You can use CrystalDiskInfo to check on your SSD's health. Now if you think the SSD was affected by your power issues, then maybe you should consider getting a new one.

Gotta be careful with CrystalDiskInfo; I've heard that it can report a drive to be good, only for it to die later that day. Probably more prevalent on HDD's than SSD's, but I'd still be careful.

On another note altogether: recently, my old PC (eMachines W3650 w/ ECS 945GCT-M3 motherboard, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit OS, 400W PSU, Celeron CPU @ 1.6Ghz, EVA Nvidia 610 GPU card 1GB, 3GB DDR2 SDRAM 320 GB HDD (should have only recognized 2 but somehow recognized 3, still cannot figure that out) was on life support, and my Norton renewal download required a specific update in order to function. That update pretty much caused my poor computer to have a nervous breakdown.

Thankfully, had all my files backed up. But that wasn't going to do me much good

So... was pretty much SOL until I found another computer secondhand; the replacement is a Dell Optiplex 3020 w/  Intel Core i5-4590 CPU @ 3.30GHz, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit OS, 290W PSU, 4 GB DDR3 SDRAM and built in GPU (gotta look into improving that sometime), and a 240 GB SSD. The OS was freshly loaded onto the drive just before it was sold to me, so no worries there (scanned it anyways with Norton and Malwarebytes loaded on before I transferred anything to it, just in case).

Now I can run Photoshop CS% Extended while looking at the internet and playing Chess Titans simultaneously

[azrael]

SSDs have a tendency to just die when they want to die. Having it work one day then die the next is par-for-the-course for an SSD.

Oh Windows 11. Microsoft's latest PR headache...

I probably won't update for another year. I don't see a real need on the OS-front to move away from Windows 10. I'm more concerned with my hardware upgrades...as futile as that is right now (stupid parts shortage and supply chain issues )

[mikeszekely]

6 hours ago, azrael said:

Oh Windows 11. Microsoft's latest PR headache..

What makes you say that?  Most of what I've been reading about it is pretty much in-line with my own experience- no issues that give you a reason not to upgrade, no features that give you a reason to upgrade.  The only potential problems I've heard of are the AMD issue (which is maybe AMD's issues, not Microsoft's, and AMD has pledged to fix), and the VBS issue that maybe is a problem for gamers (VBS causes a reduction in performance, but it's not enabled on a Windows 10 upgrade to 11, so...).

11 hours ago, technoblue said:

That's a nice mobile CPU. It would be interesting to see the Windows 11 numbers, if you get a chance to check out Far Cry on it.

Alright, that CPU paired with 16GB of RAM and an RTX 2060 Max-Q.  I was getting around 50 fps on Ultra settings at 1080p, around 57-58 fps on High.  That's slightly worse than Far Cry 5 on the same laptop, but it's hard to say if that's the AMD hit on Windows 11 or simply the fact that the new game is more resource intensive.

[azrael]

10 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

What makes you say that?  Most of what I've been reading about it is pretty much in-line with my own experience- no issues that give you a reason not to upgrade, ...

PR headache...not technical headache. PR meaning the whole TPM-compatibility requirement. I just read the other day they put out a technical bulletin on how to disregard the TPM check via a reg fix.

[mikeszekely]

32 minutes ago, azrael said:

PR meaning the whole TPM-compatibility requirement. I just read the other day they put out a technical bulletin on how to disregard the TPM check via a reg fix.

Oh, yeah.  That.  I get why Microsoft wants it to be a requirement (and why they want to implement VBS), but yeah, I guess the average PC user tends to stay on the same hardware a lot longer than I do (and even I only upgraded from a third-gen i7 to a 9th-gen at the beginning of 2020).  I guess it's kind of coincidence (and a bit of extra government stimulus money) that I upgraded my wife's laptop, my desktop, and my laptop between November 2019 and April 2020.

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

I need a laptop.  I feel the need to buy it soon before windows 11 becomes standard.  I really do not want to have to use it.

 

I want to spend $600 max.

Need 8gb of ram but prefer 16.

512gb nvme M2 ssd.

a 13 or 14" screen.  Must be IPS

cpu doesn't matter, even thought faster would be better.  But the laptop must be able to do 4k 60 output to a tv.

 

 

[TangledThorns]

14 minutes ago, Hikaru Ichijo SL said:

I need a laptop.  I feel the need to buy it soon before windows 11 becomes standard.  I really do not want to have to use it.

 

 

Is Windows 11 that bad? Like Windows 8 bad?

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

34 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

Is Windows 11 that bad? Like Windows 8 bad?

I am not a fan of the new start menu and apple ascetics. 

 

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, TangledThorns said:

Is Windows 11 that bad? Like Windows 8 bad?

No. Like 90% of the time you won't even notice the difference, and the other 10% is mostly aesthetic tweaks. Rounded corners on Windows, transparencies, taskbar icons that are centered by default (but you can move them back to the right), and a start menu that replaces live tiles with pinned program icons.

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Hikaru Ichijo SL said:

Iwant to spend $600 max.

Need 8gb of ram but prefer 16.

512gb nvme M2 ssd.

a 13 or 14" screen.  Must be IPS

cpu doesn't matter, even thought faster would be better.  But the laptop must be able to do 4k 60 output to a tv.

What is your use case? WFH(word processing/spreadsheets/email/etc)?  Media consumption? Programming? Creative solution (Photoshop/Illustrator/Premiere)?

HP Pavillion?

Asus Vivobook?

[technoblue]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:17 PM, mikeszekely said:

Alright, that CPU paired with 16GB of RAM and an RTX 2060 Max-Q.  I was getting around 50 fps on Ultra settings at 1080p, around 57-58 fps on High.  That's slightly worse than Far Cry 5 on the same laptop, but it's hard to say if that's the AMD hit on Windows 11 or simply the fact that the new game is more resource intensive.

Yeah, it is hard to say without any Windows 10 numbers. On this side of it, I would suggest waiting for AMD's fix and running the benchmark again afterward to see if the numbers show any improvement. The best case is that you pull a few more frames for 60+ fps at 1080p---a nice place to be. The worst case is that nothing changes.

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

19 hours ago, azrael said:

What is your use case? WFH(word processing/spreadsheets/email/etc)?  Media consumption? Programming? Creative solution (Photoshop/Illustrator/Premiere)?

HP Pavillion?

Asus Vivobook?

Mostly watching movies output to a TV.  If I travel it will be for watching anime and web browsing.

[azrael]

2 hours ago, Hikaru Ichijo SL said:

Mostly watching movies output to a TV.  If I travel it will be for watching anime and web browsing.

There is an Acer Swift 3 14" with AMD Ryzen* or Lenovo IdeaPad 5 14"* at Costco. Best Buy has a HP - Pavilion 2-in-1 14"*. 

*availability may vary depending on region

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

26 minutes ago, azrael said:

There is an Acer Swift 3 14" with AMD Ryzen* or Lenovo IdeaPad 5 14"* at Costco. Best Buy has a HP - Pavilion 2-in-1 14"*. 

*availability may vary depending on region

I was looking at the Lenovo but the soldered ram and Hdmi 1.4b (no 4k 60) is a turn off.

[mikeszekely]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:17 PM, mikeszekely said:

What makes you say that?  Most of what I've been reading about it is pretty much in-line with my own experience- no issues that give you a reason not to upgrade, no features that give you a reason to upgrade.  The only potential problems I've heard of are the AMD issue (which is maybe AMD's issues, not Microsoft's, and AMD has pledged to fix), and the VBS issue that maybe is a problem for gamers (VBS causes a reduction in performance, but it's not enabled on a Windows 10 upgrade to 11, so...).

Alright, that CPU paired with 16GB of RAM and an RTX 2060 Max-Q.  I was getting around 50 fps on Ultra settings at 1080p, around 57-58 fps on High.  That's slightly worse than Far Cry 5 on the same laptop, but it's hard to say if that's the AMD hit on Windows 11 or simply the fact that the new game is more resource intensive.

OK, so I wasn't planning on upgrading to Windows 11 on my desktop yet, but MS pushed it through Windows Update and since I didn't really have any issues on my laptop or upgrading my wife's computer I let it happen.  My desktop is a Core i7-9770K, 16GB of RAM, and an RTX 280.  Before, I was getting around 55-60 fps on Ultra with the optional HD texture pack installed at 1440p.  And after upgrading, I'm getting... 55-60 fps.  I suppose it remains to be seen how pre-builts with VBS running will be affected, but on Intel systems it seems like performance is basically the same between Windows 10 and 11.

I saw that Microsoft and AMD pushed a patch for Ryzen CPUs.  I installed the update, I'll see if I have a minute to see if the performance improved or not tomorrow.

EDIT: testing the AMD patch is going to have to wait... Ubisoft patched FC6, and for some reason my laptop wants to download the entire 75GB game again instead of just the patch.  I'll have to copy the game files from my desktop to save bandwidth.

Edited November 1, 2021 by mikeszekely

[azrael]

Intel Alder Lake CPU review embargo has lifted. Reviews are pretty positive for the new CPUs, but the concerns were on the money. The TLDR, the 12900k retakes the performance lead, but really does suck power and runs hotter. You will definitely need a better cooler (not to mention a new mounting bracket now that the CPU actually is longer) and likely a new PSU if you want to cover your bases. The big-little design, while useful, can only be taken advantage of on Windows 11. Value.....Alder Lake is worth the $$$, if you stick with DDR4. But Alder Lake supports DDR5, so keeping to DDR4 to keep the cost down puts it in a funny position.

Otherwise, bravo Intel.

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, azrael said:

Intel Alder Lake CPU review embargo has lifted. Reviews are pretty positive for the new CPUs, but the concerns were on the money. The TLDR, the 12900k retakes the performance lead, but really does suck power and runs hotter. You will definitely need a better cooler (not to mention a new mounting bracket now that the CPU actually is longer) and likely a new PSU if you want to cover your bases. The big-little design, while useful, can only be taken advantage of on Windows 11. Value.....Alder Lake is worth the $$$, if you stick with DDR4. But Alder Lake supports DDR5, so keeping to DDR4 to keep the cost down puts it in a funny position.

Otherwise, bravo Intel.

It is cool seeing Intel raise the competitive stakes with more CPU innovations.

Next, I would like to see them work on their power efficiency. Maybe in the next generation or two those high numbers can be tamed? For now, the i5 12600k appears to be the smart option.

Edited November 4, 2021 by technoblue

[azrael]

I think Intel and AMD really need to compete with ARM-based CPUs. We're seeing what ARM can do with Apple's M1-line on . While Alder Lake is a desktop CPU, the laptop market is more lucrative and translating to that kind of power and thermals to a laptop CPU will be a harder sell. Apple appears to have gotten that memo. Scaling up is easy. Scaling down is the hard part.

[azrael]

CES is this week (muted again this year)

AMD CPUs roundup

AMD mobile GPU updates

Intel announcements

And another high-end card no one can buy.

[Knight26]

So the network in my house is starting to show some serious issues, the wifi extenders are not working and we cannot easily relocate the modem.

So I am looking at buying my own Cable Modem and getting a wifi-mesh, does anyone have any recommendations that won't break the bank?

[TangledThorns]

2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

So the network in my house is starting to show some serious issues, the wifi extenders are not working and we cannot easily relocate the modem.

So I am looking at buying my own Cable Modem and getting a wifi-mesh, does anyone have any recommendations that won't break the bank?

I have a TP-LINK Mesh hybrid that uses powerline as a backhaul which I really like and don't see other mesh systems have this feature. It's been running in my three level 2300sq foot townhouse for almost three years without issue. Easy to set up and their app is easy to use too. Can turn on/off guest network, get access notifications, etc. Highly underrated MESH system IMHO. I see it's on sale for $200 on Amazon which is $30 than I paid for.

https://www.tp-link.com/us/deco-mesh-wifi/product-family/deco-p9/

[DewPoint]

Just making sure you tried all the easy fixes before spending money: Reboot the entire system. Update all the firmware.

[mikeszekely]

8 hours ago, Knight26 said:

So the network in my house is starting to show some serious issues, the wifi extenders are not working and we cannot easily relocate the modem.

So I am looking at buying my own Cable Modem and getting a wifi-mesh, does anyone have any recommendations that won't break the bank?

My wife was working from a home office in the basement during COVID, and her work laptop would sometimes drop it's internet connection.  I wound up buying the Google Wifi (AC1200).  It comes with the main base and two hubs and Google claims it's good for up to 4500 square feet.  I put the base on our ground floor with the modem then put one hub in the basement near my wife's desk and one upstairs in the hall (you can buy these plastic kits on Amazon that allows you to stick the whole think to the power outlet).  It was super easy to set up with the Google Home app on a smartphone, and we haven't had any issues since.  I think think there's a newer AC2200 version under their Nest brand out, but you can still find the one I got on Amazon for around $170.