Legend of the Galactic Heroes

[Jasonc]

We should probably start with the show in chronological order, and start the discussion in an official thread for discussion of the viewing parties. I also vote for monday through friday, as sometimes there's just usually a bit going on during the weekends. Just my vote. I found the entire CA DVD versions subbed on anime suki, and I'm currently downloading the entire series, ovas, prequel, and movie stuff.

[Valkyrie]

I finally got around to finishing the prequel Gaiden stories just recently. But it's been a good 3 years since I watched the main series. So I'm in!

Also, I picked up the LoGH manga series when I was in Japan last month. So it should be interesting to try and see how it matches up with the anime. It's much shorter than the anime (11 volumes), and the ship designs are very different...

[spacemanoeuvres]

Couldn't resist, I watched the first 5'ish eps on youtube last night an started dl'ing the CA DVDs. Doesn't look like they're quite finished with the dvd version though it should be complete very soon.

I was surprised at how engaging I found the story. It felt epic from the start and the military tactics and political intrigue are well done.

Can't imagine the twists and turns the story will take in the next 100'ish eps but I'm excited to see more.

[Noyhauser]

Couldn't resist, I watched the first 5'ish eps on youtube last night an started dl'ing the CA DVDs. Doesn't look like they're quite finished with the dvd version though it should be complete very soon.

I was surprised at how engaging I found the story. It felt epic from the start and the military tactics and political intrigue are well done.

Can't imagine the twists and turns the story will take in the next 100'ish eps but I'm excited to see more.

To your earlier point about art: I think current animes are far too focused on "eye candy" that doesn't really help tell the story... its become derivative and retrograde. Unfortunately Macross Frontier fails on this point. By comparison, LOGH to me is a perfect example of storytelling that could not be done in another medium. The art to me is pitch perfect; it helps tell the story without being completely overblown. Its it own, unique setting, and beautifully done at that.

[JELEINEN]

I say start witht he first film (My Conquest Is the Sea of Stars) and then watch the main series. I say leave the side stories until later. Either way, release order or chronological order, save the second movie (Overture to a New War; incedently, both this one and the one above are actual theatrical films, not OVAs) until you're about a dozen episodes in, as it it's just a re-telling of the first story arc with a slightly different focus.

[Atharun]

I'm down for watching this as I have never seen it before. If people are going to watch it online, those of us on the east coast may be posting our views/opinions at much different times.

[Jasonc]

I'm down for watching this as I have never seen it before. If people are going to watch it online, those of us on the east coast may be posting our views/opinions at much different times.

That's why I wondered if we should save opinions and such for the day after. Since Tom is starting it, he should probably start a new thread on that, so that all is clear. I've since dl'ed all the series on my HD, so I'm ready to go.

[Atharun]

I will be working on DL'ing them as well as waiting for the links in case I miss anything. Just sucks that another epic series we will most likely not see stateside.

[spacemanoeuvres]

To your earlier point about art: I think current animes are far too focused on "eye candy" that doesn't really help tell the story... its become derivative and retrograde. Unfortunately Macross Frontier fails on this point. By comparison, LOGH to me is a perfect example of storytelling that could not be done in another medium. The art to me is pitch perfect; it helps tell the story without being completely overblown. Its it own, unique setting, and beautifully done at that.

Thanks forgot to touch on my earlier comment regarding animation. I agree that the animation quality is quite good and it fits the story well.

[Tom Bateman]

I say start witht he first film (My Conquest Is the Sea of Stars) and then watch the main series. I say leave the side stories until later. Either way, release order or chronological order, save the second movie (Overture to a New War; incedently, both this one and the one above are actual theatrical films, not OVAs) until you're about a dozen episodes in, as it it's just a re-telling of the first story arc with a slightly different focus.

After reviewing the Gaiden prequel side stories, I agree with starting with the main series as the side stories are not essential to the story and 52 episodes (plus the Golden Wings OVA) could take a while and delay the main story we all want to get to. I will be referring to the Gaiden when appropriate as they are interesting to watch in their own right. (Perhaps in a "Would you like to know more?" fashion)

I don't see a problem watching "Overture..." after "My Conquest..." because the first half of overture (before the admirals arrive aboard the Brunhilde) is all new stuff. The rest of the movie is the first two episodes reanimated and re-presented, the end of the movie presents scenes that are featured in the first bunch of episodes, but I think those are more "previews" of what people are going to see later in the series.

[Tom Bateman]

LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES

Viewing Group for Week 1 - Part 1

My Conquest is the Sea of Stars

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyFPPrmyL9Q

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HVs_8jtu4w

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNH1e5o0THg

Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpDOsGWcV8c

Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJX4UNNj2XI

Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBhkNJZEjLI

The saga of Legend of the Galactic Heroes begins as fleets from the Free Planets Alliance and Galactic Empire prepare to engage each other at the 4th Battle of Tiamat.

Share thoughts and observations. Please caution about major spoilers from later in the series.

In a few days, we will move on to "Overture to a New War"

Prosit Neujahr!

[Noyhauser]

So, we're doing this? I watched the entire thing last night and I have comments and perspectives I want the world to hear!

[Tom Bateman]

So, we're doing this? I watched the entire thing last night and I have comments and perspectives I want the world to hear!

Fire away, Noyhauser!

I think it was a great introduction to the story, I wonder if Alexander the Great was just as confident when he was 20? Would have liked to have seen more about how Reinhard assembled his Admiralty.

Loved Attenborough's "clumsiness" on the Patoroklos, that's certainly my favorite FPA moment.

My favorite Imperial moment is Muckenberger and Flegel's reaction to Reinhard's "maneuver".

[Marzan]

Fire away, Noyhauser!

I think it was a great introduction to the story, I wonder if Alexander the Great was just as confident when he was 20? Would have liked to have seen more about how Reinhard assembled his Admiralty.

Loved Attenborough's "clumsiness" on the Patoroklos, that's certainly my favorite FPA moment.

My favorite Imperial moment is Muckenberger and Flegel's reaction to Reinhard's "maneuver".

Flegel's reaction is absolutely priceless!

The one thing I remember the most from this movie is it's wonderful use of the entirety of Maurice Ravel's Bolero. The way the piece finishes just as Yang's ship positions itself underneath Reinhardt makes for an epic moment. Although a handful of films have used this piece as a soundtrack, I cannot think if any in which it's used to such brilliant effect.

[JELEINEN]

I agree 100% on the use of Bolero durring the battle is very cool. I think 10 is the movie most people associate with the piece, but in my mind I just see space ships blowing up whenever I hear it.

The battle in the atmosphere of the gas giant is also cool. I can't think of anything like it in other media SF.

I think the biggest thing the film does is get one used to the scale of the setting. The casualty report at the end, with what sound like staggering numbers, and then finding out that the battle wasn't even important enough to get its own name does the job very well.

The one thing that always felt odd is the bar fight scene when Kircheis shows up. He doesn't feel like a real human being; like he's too perfect. This made sense later on, but was a bit jarring the first time.

[Tom Bateman]

I agree 100% on the use of Bolero durring the battle is very cool. I think 10 is the movie most people associate with the piece, but in my mind I just see space ships blowing up whenever I hear it.

The battle in the atmosphere of the gas giant is also cool. I can't think of anything like it in other media SF.

I think the biggest thing the film does is get one used to the scale of the setting. The casualty report at the end, with what sound like staggering numbers, and then finding out that the battle wasn't even important enough to get its own name does the job very well.

The one thing that always felt odd is the bar fight scene when Kircheis shows up. He doesn't feel like a real human being; like he's too perfect. This made sense later on, but was a bit jarring the first time.

The battle in the second half of the film is the 4th Battle of Tiamat.

I love Kircheis' character, especially when he finally goes on his own, away from Reinhard, but he did seem a little too "perfect", the Gaiden had a little too much "Reinhart-o-sama"

The bar fight scene was a good one; unit camaraderie is a big deal and I like how they emphasized this with Reinhard, especially in the "Those Who Mutiny" story arc in the Gaiden side stories, which is about Reinhard's first assignment aboard an Imperial Warship.

I can't remember whether or not we see Lieutenant (JG) Louis Helm or Ensign Whin Vanderberg later in the series.

Watching this made "Bolero" my favorite classical music piece. I first remembered hearing it used in the

, but this was even more incredible. A giant ballet of starships moving in tactical formation... perfect music.

A big favorite of mine is the

for the arrival of the Reinhard fleet at Iserlohn. That was bold and triumphant!

[Marzan]

I love Kircheis' character, especially when he finally goes on his own, away from Reinhard, but he did seem a little too "perfect", the Gaiden had a little too much "Reinhart-o-sama"

As we we move forward in the discussion of LOGH, I guess that this will be recurring topic: the Reinhardt-Kircheis relationship and the importance of Kircheis in LOGH.

[JELEINEN]

The battle in the second half of the film is the 4th Battle of Tiamat.

Right, but saying that that's the fourth battle they've fought in that place (with pretty much the same results every time) makes it sound pretty insignificant.

[Noyhauser]

I've watched it before, but I'm struck at how this really reflects so many aspects of the series. One of the key ones is the themes that the two main characters represent. On the one hand you have Kircheis and Reinhardt with their doe-eyed idealism. "we'll end this battle and this 150 year war." They truly believe in their moral superiority and what they are doing is for the greater good of humanity. On the other hand there is Yang and his almost Fatalistic realism. "Every Era there is a war." To him, there are no enlightened causes, except maybe democracy and the rule of law. The Realism/Idealism divide is a classic debate in International relations, which will become played out in the 100+ episode series.

[Tom Bateman]

As we we move forward in the discussion of LOGH, I guess that this will be recurring topic: the Reinhardt-Kircheis relationship and the importance of Kircheis in LOGH.

It's definitely the core foundation of the Imperial side of the show.

Right, but saying that that's the fourth battle they've fought in that place (with pretty much the same results every time) makes it sound pretty insignificant.

Actually, the Tiamat starzone is pretty significant as it is the closest star system to Iserlohn

I've watched it before, but I'm struck at how this really reflects so many aspects of the series. One of the key ones is the themes that the two main characters represent. On the one hand you have Kircheis and Reinhardt with their doe-eyed idealism. "we'll end this battle and this 150 year war." They truly believe in their moral superiority and what they are doing is for the greater good of humanity. On the other hand there is Yang and his almost Fatalistic realism. "Every Era there is a war." To him, there are no enlightened causes, except maybe democracy and the rule of law. The Realism/Idealism divide is a classic debate in International relations, which will become played out in the 100+ episode series.

I love the moral quandary of "corrupt democracy vs. benevolent dictatorship" and throughout the series, I find myself constantly asking which I would prefer.

[atomicscissors]

Finally able to catch "My Conquest Is The Sea of Stars" last night.

I've never seen LOGH up until now, and found it a nice primer to the universe and characters. I did find Yang and Reinhardt a little too perfect. They're both tactical geniuses, handsome, and admired by their crew. They don't seem to have any flaws whatsoever. Of course this is probably because it'd be a little difficult for the writers to develop the characters within this hour-long movie.

I really liked the rapport between the two gunners (I can't recall if their names are ever given). I thought nothing could be more true, when the veteran told the rookie to go back to sleep because it was better to die that way.

I'm curious to know more about this "holy war" that the Secretary of Defense spoke about at the end of the movie. I find it odd that such language was used by him, since most democracies don't fight religious wars (or at the very least, don't overtly claim to fight them).

Well those are some of my thoughts. So, "Overture to a New War" is next, right?

[Noyhauser]

I'm curious to know more about this "holy war" that the Secretary of Defense spoke about at the end of the movie. I find it odd that such language was used by him, since most democracies don't fight religious wars (or at the very least, don't overtly claim to fight them).

Ah, mmm yeah....

[Tom Bateman]

Finally able to catch "My Conquest Is The Sea of Stars" last night.

I've never seen LOGH up until now, and found it a nice primer to the universe and characters. I did find Yang and Reinhardt a little too perfect. They're both tactical geniuses, handsome, and admired by their crew. They don't seem to have any flaws whatsoever. Of course this is probably because it'd be a little difficult for the writers to develop the characters within this hour-long movie.

The two things that people in the military value over everything is courage and competency. A commander has to demonstrate their ability to take charge of a situation and deliver a successful outcome and to take care of the people under your command. I think Yang is certainly "less than perfect" even by his own admission, but he is regarded as competent by subordinates, especially Dusty Attenborough, who was an underclassmen of his at the Academy.

Reinhard is definitely presented as Golden Child perfect, but he earned his way up and all the stories in the Gaiden show that he demonstrated great skill in not only tactical areas, but also personnel. He knew how to get people to do what he needed them to do without simply falling back on his rank. He runs across a lot of people in the Gaiden prequels, and earns a lot of respect from them, so the ones who dismiss him as the "admiral under the skirt" are people who really don't know him.

I really liked the rapport between the two gunners (I can't recall if their names are ever given). I thought nothing could be more true, when the veteran told the rookie to go back to sleep because it was better to die that way.

Kurt is the older one, Tonio is the younger one. Kurt has the fatalism of an experienced veteran, as well as the caustic sense of humor.

I'm curious to know more about this "holy war" that the Secretary of Defense spoke about at the end of the movie. I find it odd that such language was used by him, since most democracies don't fight religious wars (or at the very least, don't overtly claim to fight them).

The war has been going on for 150 years. Lots of people in history have spoken in religious terms to justify war, this is true in the War on Terror, and I'm not talking about just the Taliban and Al Qaeda. What I would have liked to have seen was a bunch of the FPA military guys with Yang to roll their eyes at Secretary Truniht's speech. It's propaganda and yes, it gets a whole lot worse.

Well those are some of my thoughts. So, "Overture to a New War" is next, right?

Yes, I will post the links later on.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Tom Bateman

[JELEINEN]

I haven't watched Overture in a few years and I have a good quality file of it that Central put out a while back, so I'm really looking forward to this. Think I'll do that as soon as I get off work.

[Atharun]

Got my downloads ready, and will watch this weekend. Will let you guys and gals know what I think. my initial impression though is a good one mixed with disappointment that it will likely never get a dub over here. Although one never knows.

[Tom Bateman]

LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES

Viewing Group for Week 2 - Part 1

Overture to a New War

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=776cdqxRrJ8

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr9WlBX8__A

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkrsfDpxe1s

Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAc5kzqr-Po

Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-dCOzLJbHs

Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPKKdIz_yOU

Part 7 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOURc1R6-7E

Part 8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsgb4BFaY8Q

Part 9 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDzkkgQ2hBY

I am also including the first two episodes of the first season as they feature the same events as the second half of the Overture movie, but with different animation. It will be cool to compare the two.

Episode 001 - "Into the Eternal Night"

"Eien no Yoru no naka de" (永遠の夜の中で)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDpO7P65dY8&feature=&p=9FF45BF403C93AC0&index=0&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoFVMUSuiEI&feature=autoplay&list=PL9FF45BF403C93AC0&index=2&playnext=2

Episode 002 - "The Battle of Astarte"

"Asutāte Kaisen" (アスターテ会戦)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm_ANle7pgk&feature=autoplay&list=PL9FF45BF403C93AC0&index=3&playnext=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDvF5uuhXjU&feature=autoplay&list=PL9FF45BF403C93AC0&index=4&playnext=4

Note: "Overture..." was made in 1993, five years after the release of Episode 1 and 2 in late 1988

Edited January 8, 2011 by Tom Bateman

[Noyhauser]

Well I've never actually seen Overture to a New War, so this is a bit of a treat. It provides a lot more shading of the relationship between Lap, Edwards and Wenli. I think it actually makes Lap's death more serious for Yang, showing him the cost of his inaction. He can no longer ignore the events around him and reluctantly seeks to achieve his own destiny. Lap is portrayed to be a far more direct figure, even going to the point of insubordination... however his death was a little less dramatic. On the Empire side, the movie definitely makes more of Fahrenheit, which provides more of a context for his later appearances.

One of the things I've realized watching this is that I think Yang is intended to represent a Taoist way of thinking. He carries out his orders, even ones he doesn't like, but does so in a way that reflects his personal desires... without being overt about it. He often takes the movements of his enemies and with a brilliant, but understated, response, he turns it against them. He's the master leader you don't know has done anything because he's so good at it.

[Tom Bateman]

Well I've never actually seen Overture to a New War, so this is a bit of a treat. It provides a lot more shading of the relationship between Lap, Edwards and Wenli. I think it actually makes Lap's death more serious for Yang, showing him the cost of his inaction. He can no longer ignore the events around him and reluctantly seeks to achieve his own destiny. Lap is portrayed to be a far more direct figure, even going to the point of insubordination... however his death was a little less dramatic. On the Empire side, the movie definitely makes more of Fahrenheit, which provides more of a context for his later appearances.

One of the things I've realized watching this is that I think Yang is intended to represent a Taoist way of thinking. He carries out his orders, even ones he doesn't like, but does so in a way that reflects his personal desires... without being overt about it. He often takes the movements of his enemies and with a brilliant, but understated, response, he turns it against them. He's the master leader you don't know has done anything because he's so good at it.

I definitely mourn the loss of Jean Robert Lap, he was a great character and would have made a great ally of Yang's later on. I liked how he was thinking the same thing as Yang after the destruction of the 4th fleet, but had a similarly pig-headed fleet commander. I thought his death in the movie was definitely handled better than in the series, which was very quick and abrupt without doing a whole lot to really establish the character and his history with Yang. Sometimes Yang seems a bit aloof, but that's part of his character, there are times when we see how he cares deeply for those under his command. Truly a reluctant warrior.

I really liked Fahrenheit's reaction to Reinhard's plan, whereas the other older admirals were shocked, he had this look of "ah, I like this plan!"

[Marzan]

I definitely mourn the loss of Jean Robert Lap, he was a great character and would have made a great ally of Yang's later on. I liked how he was thinking the same thing as Yang after the destruction of the 4th fleet, but had a similarly pig-headed fleet commander. I thought his death in the movie was definitely handled better than in the series, which was very quick and abrupt without doing a whole lot to really establish the character and his history with Yang. Sometimes Yang seems a bit aloof, but that's part of his character, there are times when we see how he cares deeply for those under his command. Truly a reluctant warrior.

I really liked Fahrenheit's reaction to Reinhard's plan, whereas the other older admirals were shocked, he had this look of "ah, I like this plan!"

I got to watch the series before the movie, so I also thought that Lap's death was just kind of anecdotal. The movie makes it a bit more poignant.

Regarding Fahrenheit's reaction, I thing it's a clever way of

foreshadowing the Imperial civil war, in which the battle lines were as much younger officers vs. the old guard, as hey were the nobility vs, the bourgesie

Edited for a spoiler..oops!

Edited January 15, 2011 by Marzan

[Noyhauser]

I agree Marzan... this actually cleared up a couple of things in the main series that seemed glossed over at the time.

So what are we watching next boss?

[Tom Bateman]

The next two episodes give more insight into Yang and Reinhard's characters. Yang deals with his new success and is promoted to Rear Admiral and is given an impossible new assignment. Reinhard is promoted to Grand Admiral and we see how he first met Kircheis and learn what happened to his sister Annerose

Episode 003 - "Birth of the 13th Fleet"

"Dai Jūsan Kantai Tanjō" (第十三艦隊誕生)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqThJ-LTWsU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUmyiiFN1ao

Episode 004 - "Empire’s Afterglow"

"Teikoku no Zanshō" (帝国の残照)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-X7Cbox5Fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWxNXe8p2-U

[Noyhauser]

Its an interesting two episodes. The first exposes the growing political decay within the FPA... fear replaces debate and becomes a tool for advancement. The Military seems to be one of the last bastions of integrity, but its being led astray by the machinations of people like Trunhilt. Its also impressive how Yang knows how to play the political game too to protect Jessica Edwards, but choses not to... however he gives up a lot to do that.

The second episode on Reinhard and Kiercheis focuses more on their relationship and beginnings... maybe a little too sepia coloured for my liking.

[Tom Bateman]

I think the PKC is a little too overt. They're pretty obvious and just look like a thug group of Nazi brownshirts; but maybe that was the intent.

Jessica walks out of the military headquarters and there isn't a soul around when she starts walking? Surely the press would have mobbed her. Some things remind me of Cindy Sheehan, but Jessica is far more intelligent. I also thought the PKC's humming of the FPA national anthem was weird. I know they are zealots, but I think Truniht's henchmen would be a little more subtle and insidious.

Julian Minci... I'll save comments on him for later

Kircheis is fiercely loyal to Reinhard and I get that and it's cool, but he's still a bit of a mystery to me. My question is "what is Kircheis getting out of all of this, personally?" Their relationship as kids is definitely out of some storybook, but I do like the "lifelong friends" factor in their relationship.

[Marzan]

I agree that the PKC was a bit over the top. Specially considering that LOGH tries from the very beginning to avoid a manichean view of history.

[spacemanoeuvres]

Did anyone keep going watching the series?

I forgot about this thread but I'm now on episode 74 and still enjoying the heck out of the story.