YF-29 (canon, in-series info)

[Gubaba]

Gah, just noticed a typo in my post. That should've been "YF-29", not "YF-19".

YF-19, YF-29, VF-19, VF-9, VF-29.

Tell me about it...I still get confused sometimes by VF-2SS, VF-22S, and VF-25S if I'm reading quickly.

[twich]

Now I am a little confused. I know that one of the images posted here states that the YF-29 will be a 1/100 model kit, but I have read elsewhere that this will also be a DX 1/60 from Bandai. Did I read that incorrectly, or will there also be a toy of the 1/60 YF-29? any clarification would be appreciated.

Twich

[sketchley]

As of right now, only the 1/100 fighter mode only model kit has been released.

[anime52k8]

As of right now, only the 1/100 fighter mode only model kit has been released.

as of right now, nothing has been released.

A 1/100 Fighter Mode only model has been show in painted form and is scheduled for release this February. A 1/60 scale DX toy has been announced in the form of CAD renderings of the fighter mode, but no physical prototypes or release info has come out. also in the most resent promotional image for the 1/100 fighter mode kit, there is a blurb about 1/72 scale. (see second image)

[Valkyrie addict]

oh man, I haven't being in touch with Macross in ages, come back and see all this VF-29 stuff... that thing is so ugly it makes me feel retarded, terrible kitbash merchandise product, so many macross valks and mechs to choose from and they have to invent something hideous...

[Seto Kaiba]

oh man, I haven't being in touch with Macross in ages, come back and see all this VF-29 stuff... that thing is so ugly it makes me feel retarded, terrible kitbash merchandise product, so many macross valks and mechs to choose from and they have to invent something hideous...

Yeah... I know what you're feeling seeing that thing. I kinda wish they'd opted to save the Tornado packs and make those Alto's mid-season upgrade instead. Every time I see that bloody thing, I can't help but wonder if a model kit company foisted that one on the movie... it looks, for all the world, like a VF-25-themed freshening of Kawamori's SW-XAII Schneegans...

[Graham]

Except the SW-XAII Schneegans looks way better than the YF-29 IMO.

Graham

[Graham]

The text around the article says (if my skim reading is correct) that it's stylized after the VF-19, based on the VF-25 with the 25's silhouette. Something about the VF-27 and VF-25 Tornado pack appearing, but too briefly for mecha fans, and that in-series, the VFs ending with 9 (VF-9, VF-19, YF-29), it has forward-swept wings. The YF-29 is developed in the same period as the VF-25. There have also been 11 years since the appearance of the Vajra in the Gaul 4 incident, and there have been increases in technology, specifically anti-Vajra technology. The roll-out of the YF-29 is timely. Stealthiness, use of fold quartz, etc.. Developed by Shinsei Industry and L.A.I. Uses the mass-produced VF-25's control system. Has the functions of the VF-25's Super Pack and Tornado Pack in it's base form.

Anyhow, if I understand the details of the lineart correctly, there are 2 micro-missiles in each engine nacelle, for a total of 8. There are also the hip machine-guns/beam machine-guns. 2 head lasers and a head antenna. Lastly, there are what appear to bee a pair of large-bore beam guns slightly inward and forward of the tails. The elongated nose implies the use of ISC.

Compared with the Tornado pack, the YF-29 seems a bit light on missile armament to me. Starting with missiles. While the YF-29 may have 8 micro-missile ports, the payload for each must be quite small given their locations on the outside of the engines (not much room in the legs and mid-wing engine nacelles for missiles). Compare this with the Tornado pack, which although it has a similiar number of micro-missile ports (6 micro-missile ports on the dorsal wing surface and possibly another 2 on the ventral wing surface). However, given the location of these ports, there is the potentional that the Tornado Pack's micro-missile payload is much greater, as the Tornado packs wing would logically seem to offer far more storage space compared to the YF-29's launchers on the primary engine (leg) and secondary engine (mid-wing) nacelles. Then of course the Tornado pack also has the optional underwing 'Corn Cob' micro-missile launchers for space use.

Moving onto the beam guns, even with advances in technology I have a hard time beliving the 2 large-bore beam cannons on the YF-29 (located inward and slightly fore of the vertical tails), are as powerful as the much large cannons on the Tornado pack. Also, the Tornado Pack's cannon being moveable in both the horizontal and vertical axis offer a wider field of fire compared to the YF-29's cannons which appear to be fixed forward firing only. However, I'm wondering if for battroid mode, the YF-29's cannons will hinge up over the shoulders/head somehow. Looking at the line art, they do seem to be connected to a y-shape piece, which perhaps is pop-up moveable mount.

While I can see with advances in engine technology and likely lighter overall weight the YF-29 being as fast or faster than the Tornado pack equippped VF-25, I'm wondering if it is as maneuverable. To me the 360 degree rotating engine nacelles on the Tornado Pack would seem to offer a huge advantage in maneuverability, especially in space.

Graham

[SchizophrenicMC]

Except the SW-XAII Schneegans looks way better than the YF-29 IMO.

Graham

It does, in mine, too.

And, excellent points, regarding performance and firepower. That said, it isn't a true Valkyrie until it has a super pack.

[Graham]

Here's a bigger scan of the YF-29 lineart from the February issue of Dengeki Hobby Magazine.

I'm wondring if in batroid mode, the 2 beam cannons will be able to pivot on the cross bar they appear to be attached to, which would possibly have them pointing forward over the battroid's hips(?)

Graham

[anime52k8]

Here's a bigger scan of the YF-29 lineart from the February issue of Dengeki Hobby Magazine.

I'm wondring if in batroid mode, the 2 beam cannons will be able to pivot on the cross bar they appear to be attached to, which would possibly have them pointing forward over the battroid's hips(?)

Graham

Maybe they're just the back of the legs as usual. (I have no idea why they would be, but it would be pretty hilarious if it's guns were only capable of shooting the robot in it's own arse in battroid mode. )

[Valkyrie addict]

that..."thing"...is gonna transform and look exactly like the VF-25 except with a different head and wing mounting, possible sticking out instead of folded pathetic

[SchizophrenicMC]

that..."thing"...is gonna transform and look exactly like the VF-25 except with a different head and wing mounting, possible sticking out instead of folded pathetic

M-M-M-MERCHANDISING!

[Graham]

Hoping the DX will have full-length, decent looking landing gear.

Graham

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

While I felt that the tornado pack was unnecessary for the movie, I can appreciate the certain homage that it does with the "strike" esque cannons on the shoulders. There also seems to be some utility to be had by allowing the boosters to swivel so much.

This YF-29, while yet to be seen in action, I agree with the majority in that it is an unattractive merchandising stunt, though who knows, maybe we will all be lining up for our YF-29 chogokins after the movie hits theaters...though I strongly doubt this.

[Ghost Train]

Other inventions (or stuff he was involved with) by Shoji Kawamori that people did not care much about:

... well maybe not the last one.

[Raptor One]

Though I don't hate the design (don't love it though) I'm kind of hoping this ends up like the Qan[T] in the 00 movie and only get's like 5 min of screentime. Would much prefer lots of VF-25/27 action

[Graham]

I'm slowly warming to the YF-29 design and will likely buy the DX. However, I still think it would look much better if it lost the mid-wing boosters.

Still not loving it, but at least I'm not hating it so much now.

Really want to see the battroid mode though, especially the head as that will be make or break for me.

Graham

[sketchley]

Compared with the Tornado pack, the YF-29 seems a bit light on missile armament to me.

(...)

While I can see with advances in engine technology and likely lighter overall weight the YF-29 being as fast or faster than the Tornado pack equippped VF-25, I'm wondering if it is as maneuverable. To me the 360 degree rotating engine nacelles on the Tornado Pack would seem to offer a huge advantage in maneuverability, especially in space.

Graham

It must be stressed that my initial post was a skim reading, and even though it might be accurate, the article could very well be saying something else entirely!

That said, my belief is that the author means that the YF-29 is equal to the VF-25 with Tornado pack not in the sense of total armament and missile payload, but in base capability. By this, I mean how a VF-4 has equal performance to a FAST pack equipped VF-1, or a VF-19 like a Super Pack equipped VF-11, and so on.

Overall manoeuvrability is a tricky thing. I'd say that the YF-29 would be more manoeuvrable than the VF-25 with Tornado pack for one simple reason: it weighs less. (In addition to the engines, the VF-25 Tornado pack has a large wing weight, not to mention large fuel and missile loads). So couple an improved instantaneous acceleration (less weight) with less stress on the base unit's wing.wing gloves (removal of extra structure and weight), and you can push the plan harder, faster.

Edited January 6, 2011 by sketchley

[Graham]

that..."thing"...is gonna transform and look exactly like the VF-25 except with a different head and wing mounting, possible sticking out instead of folded pathetic

Nah, the wings are almost certainly going to fold ala the VF-25. On the Dengeki Hobby 3D CAD scan of the DX toy, where the parts are in different colours, you can clearly see what look like hinges (cream backplate).

Also, it's looking 99% certain that the wings (blue part) will retract into the wing gloves (grey part) in battroid mode.

Graham

[SchizophrenicMC]

... well maybe not the last one.

Mmm, GP01...

Eh, Katoki's still my favorite Gundam designer.

Though I don't hate the design (don't love it though) I'm kind of hoping this ends up like the Qan[T] in the 00 movie and only get's like 5 min of screentime. Would much prefer lots of VF-25/27 action

It might just, actually, now that I think about it. I mean, look at the -171EX

[David Hingtgen]

Just realized something while posting in the DX thread with the larger scan---look at the back of the head. Look at the nose sensors. Same color--likely indicating same type of plastic/transparency etc. Thus--a visible visor in fighter mode? That's pretty unique.

(yes, you can see a VF-1's visor too---but they don't even try to hide the head---every valk since has a totally "hidden" the head asides from the lasers/antennas---this would be the first one to have a visible visor with a "hidden" head)

Or even if there is no "color coding" between parts on the CAD and it's fairly random---that's a very visor-esque shape regardless, and I still think it indicates a visible visor.

::edit:: OK, duh, you can see the green visor in the color pics of the 1/100 model...

[eugimon]

Just realized something while posting in the DX thread with the larger scan---look at the back of the head. Look at the nose sensors. Same color--likely indicating same type of plastic/transparency etc. Thus--a visible visor in fighter mode? That's pretty unique.

(yes, you can see a VF-1's visor too---but they don't even try to hide the head---every valk since has a totally "hidden" the head asides from the lasers/antennas---this would be the first one to have a visible visor with a "hidden" head)

Or even if there is no "color coding" between parts on the CAD and it's fairly random---that's a very visor-esque shape regardless, and I still think it indicates a visible visor.

if that is the forward sensor/visor, it's going to be pretty wide since it looks like it wraps around the head.

[David Hingtgen]

Only good shot we have of the rear so far, looks like a visor to me, I mean it's even "valk-visor-green":

[anime52k8]

if that is the forward sensor/visor, it's going to be pretty wide since it looks like it wraps around the head.

maybe it's got a visor on the back of it's head so the space bugs can't sneak up on it?

[eugimon]

maybe it's got a visor on the back of it's head so the space bugs can't sneak up on it?

Well, the 21/22 has a rear facing sensor eye on the cowl, so it wouldn't be the first time it's been done.

[Zinjo]

Except the SW-XAII Schneegans looks way better than the YF-29 IMO.

Graham

What he said...

[Zinjo]

Overall manoeuvrability is a tricky thing. I'd say that the YF-29 would be more manoeuvrable than the VF-25 with Tornado pack for one simple reason: it weighs less. (In addition to the engines, the VF-25 Tornado pack has a large wing weight, not to mention large fuel and missile loads). So couple an improved instantaneous acceleration (less weight) with less stress on the base unit's wing.wing gloves (removal of extra structure and weight), and you can push the plan harder, faster.

Maneuverability is less about speed and more about agility. The Tornado has the advantage in one respect, that being the VTOL engines and their ability to change the direction of the vectored thrust on what appears to be a full 360 degree axis.

Is the VF-25 Tornado a heavier jet? Yes. Slower than a YF-29? During certain maneuvers, I'm sure. More maneuverable than the YF-29? Probably, but at the cost of speed.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Zinjo

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Only good shot we have of the rear so far, looks like a visor to me, I mean it's even "valk-visor-green":

Forgive me if I am out of the loop, but that looks like a VF-27 esque BFG hanging from the bottom.

More anti vajra medicine for SMS?

[SchizophrenicMC]

Based on its shape and position, I'm kinda leaning toward it being a paint marking, as opposed to a visor.

[Reïvaj]

I agree.

[TehPW]

maybe it's got a visor on the back of it's head so the space bugs can't sneak up on it?

but there's no advantage for it. all the view it provides (unless the head actually rises up from the airframe) is some views from a certain angle above the back of the plane, and nothing directly behind the plane... even the firing behind is useless unless the fighter banks upward suddenly... it's just a gribble, nothing more...

[David Hingtgen]

Luckily for Isamu and Alto, enemy valks DO always seem to position themselves behind and above, to be shot at by the rear-facing head-laser.

[valkyriechild]

I thought it is a general rule in air combat, always stays above your enemy.

Wonder if that is the reason for moving the head position from below the belly to the back in fighter mode, from VF-1 to 19 and so on.

It is simply my wild imagination, i apologize if it is not.

[Vic Mancini]

If you're engaged in a dogfight with another fighter jet, and he's on your tail, isn't he almost always behind and above you? Or isn't that where you are when you're on his tail? Dog fights don't usually happen in straight lines. You're usually trying to out-turn your opponent and get on his six. Planes turn by banking to one side and pulling up...that puts your enemy right in the sweet spot for the rear mounted lasers on the newer VFs.