The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Saruta]

Just rewatched the Frontier movies and realized I don't understand something.

Why did the Vajra destroy Macross Galaxy?

They were attacking Frontier because they wanted Ranka. Sheryl, another person they might possibly want, was also on Frontier at the time. So what caused them to attack Galaxy and (at least in Movie-verse, don't remember how it goes in the series) to shoot at refugee ships? They were not yet under any human control, as far as I could understand.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Saruta

[SebastianP]

Just rewatched the Frontier movies and realized I don't understand something.

Why did the Vajra destroy Macross Galaxy?

They were attacking Frontier because they wanted Ranka. Sheryl, another person they might possibly want, was also on Frontier at the time. So what caused them to attack Galaxy and (at least in Movie-verse, don't remember how it goes in the series) to shoot at refugee ships? They were not yet under any human control, as far as I could understand.

I assume it relates to how the Battle Galaxy is missing in the movies.

Basically, I think that Galaxy spied a Vajra nest, tried to take them over using their tech, but it wasn't ready and the Vajra tore them a new one and went looking for their fleet. So the conspiracy packed themselves into the refugee ships, and ran to Frontier, where they planned to execute a hostile takeover to get a second shot.

In the TV series, I'm thinking the plot was kind of similar, except the Battle Galaxy lived to fight another day and Frontier wasn't exactly taken over.

I am kind of wondering how Leon Mishima got so important in the scheme of things. He's a lieutenant, Captain Perry should have ground him under his boot heel...

[RedWolf]

I assume it relates to how the Battle Galaxy is missing in the movies.

Basically, I think that Galaxy spied a Vajra nest, tried to take them over using their tech, but it wasn't ready and the Vajra tore them a new one and went looking for their fleet. So the conspiracy packed themselves into the refugee ships, and ran to Frontier, where they planned to execute a hostile takeover to get a second shot.

In the TV series, I'm thinking the plot was kind of similar, except the Battle Galaxy lived to fight another day and Frontier wasn't exactly taken over.

I am kind of wondering how Leon Mishima got so important in the scheme of things. He's a lieutenant, Captain Perry should have ground him under his boot heel...

We actually saw Macross Galaxy Mainland safe and sound hiding itself. In the TV series it was a setup as Macross Frontier being a Bio Plant fleet makes it a perfect breeding ground for Vajra. Frontier fleet was just guinea pigs to them. The whole point of sending Sheryl there was to attract the Vajra. They found a replacement in Ranka instead.

In the movies it is the opposite. Galaxy fleet destroyed a Vajra nest. Vajra destroyed the fleet. Battle Galaxy is MIA.

[Sir Galahad®]

When did the head turrets of the valkyries change from lasers to beam guns? What would be the differences and which is more powerful?

Also why do some fighters don't use their other weaponry?

Take the case of the VF-25 - 2 x Mauler RÖV-25 25mm beam machine guns (mounted left/right of intakes in Fighter/GERWALK mode, on rotating hip mounts in Battroid mode)

- Has this ever been used?

[Sir Galahad®]

In DYRL, the roads are three-dimensional as I recall. You can drive STRAIGHT UP! Tell me a sportscar buff wouldn't want to drive towards the sky.

As far as the broader economy... I refuse to poke too hard at it. It is like trying to figure out why everyone has VFs when a destroid/fighter jet pair ought to be more economical and reliable. In the end, there is no good answer and you just destroy the show's credibility.

A destroid is like a tank, solid but lacks manuverability, and most mecha shows want their star units to be fast and action packed, well we could add flight capabilities to our destroid and we have.... A MOBILE SUIT! (Your jet will be the mobile armor support too)

Edited June 29, 2016 by Sir Galahad®

[Seto Kaiba]

When did the head turrets of the valkyries change from lasers to beam guns? What would be the differences and which is more powerful?

The earliest example I know of, though it is not strictly a "head" turret, is the VF-9 Cutlass that first flew in 2021.

(Due to the eccentricities of the VF-9's design, though they filled the same role as the coaxial guns normally found on the monitor turret they were actually situated on the right shoulder.)

Usage of beam machine guns seems to have become the standard with the 4th Generation (Advanced) Variable Fighters like the VF-19, VF-22, and VF-171. Though I am not aware of anything that explicitly says the relationship is causal, but I strongly suspect the reason for the change occurring at that point is the adoption of the new and more efficient thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines that were first introduced in that generation. (The VF-17 variants seen in Macross 7 had also been retrofitted to accept this improved engine technology.)

Strictly speaking, the actual stopping power depends pretty much entirely on the energy output of the weapon... there shouldn't be no difference between a 5 megawatt laser and 5 megawatt particle beam in terms of the energy conveyed to the target under identical conditions, but particle beam or dimension beam guns may have an advantage against armor with better thermal resistance, since lasers would burn through the armor rather than ablating it.

Also why do some fighters don't use their other weaponry?

Take the case of the VF-25 - 2 x Mauler RÖV-25 25mm beam machine guns (mounted left/right of intakes in Fighter/GERWALK mode, on rotating hip mounts in Battroid mode)

- Has this ever been used?

Hm... I suppose that's probably a simple case of dramatic license, as in they just couldn't find a way to work that weapon into a scene in a suitably dramatic fashion.

Sometimes that stuff shows up later in video games, like the VF-19 being able to fire its wing glove guns in battroid mode... (which looks bizarrely like it's pelvic-thrusting at the enemy)

[SebastianP]

When did the head turrets of the valkyries change from lasers to beam guns? What would be the differences and which is more powerful?

Also why do some fighters don't use their other weaponry?

Take the case of the VF-25 - 2 x Mauler RÖV-25 25mm beam machine guns (mounted left/right of intakes in Fighter/GERWALK mode, on rotating hip mounts in Battroid mode)

- Has this ever been used?

I still can't take the designations for those Mauler guns seriously... because in my native language, "röv" means "arse". As in, the very vulgar version of the word which your momma will threaten to wash your mouth out with soap for using.

[Seto Kaiba]

I still can't take the designations for those Mauler guns seriously... because in my native language, "röv" means "arse". As in, the very vulgar version of the word which your momma will threaten to wash your mouth out with soap for using.

Swedish, eh?

While I don't recall ever seeing an official explanation, I'd be willing to bet that what it was meant to be was an acronym in German. The manufacturer is a non-infringing "bland name" version of Mauser.

[Nazareno2012]

I still can't take the designations for those Mauler guns seriously... because in my native language, "röv" means "arse". As in, the very vulgar version of the word which your momma will threaten to wash your mouth out with soap for using.

But don't forget the SDF-1's original designation, ASS-1.

[Mit]

By the way, for all the past episodes of "Delta", variational fighters "SV-262 Draken III" never used "energy shields", but actively used holographic interference...

It turns out that the "Knights" does not possess the "barrier" technology? But why?

[camk4evr]

I assume that either the New Unity Government never sold them barrier technology or that the colony fleet that came into contact with them didn't have variable fighters with barriers

[RedWolf]

I assume that either the New Unity Government never sold them barrier technology or that the colony fleet that came into contact with them didn't have variable fighters with barriers

Or they are too cheap to fit them with the Draken. Relying on their constitution for gees and runes to anticipate movements. Maybe they think ECA is enough. They do have a crappy ejection system compared to the VF-11C pods and Ex-Gears.

[Seto Kaiba]

By the way, for all the past episodes of "Delta", variational fighters "SV-262 Draken III" never used "energy shields", but actively used holographic interference...It turns out that the "Knights" does not possess the "barrier" technology? But why?

We don't have official specs for the Sv-262 Draken III and we've seen almost nothing of its Battroid mode in the series... so unless I've missed something, we don't actually know that that fighter doesn't possess a pin-point barrier system. Windermere's Aerial Knights almost never use the Battroid or GERWALK modes.

It would be a very odd choice indeed for Windermere to build a 5th Generation-equivalent VF and not equip it with technology that has been standard equipment for two generations and a good 19 years by the time of Macross Delta's events.

We know that the rogue engineers who helped develop fighters like the Draken III for various anti-government factions are familiar with barrier technology as well, since they equipped a one-off 5th Generation-equivalent VF with a super-powerful barrier system in 2058.

I assume that either the New Unity Government never sold them barrier technology or that the colony fleet that came into contact with them didn't have variable fighters with barriers

Windermere was discovered and settled by the SDF-5 Megaroad-04 in 2027, a good while before fighter-scale pin-point barrier technology was developed. However, by the time Windermere's natives launched their war of secession against the New UN Government, the New UN Spacy had been using a main variable fighter equipped with pin-point barrier technology for 12 years.

The Windermere forces are clearly familiar with barrier technology, since they know how the ones on the Sigur Valens work, and they should've had access to the tech from either legitimate channels or VFs they captured during their war of secession.

[SebastianP]

Is anyone else hoping we get to see some full size Zentraedi singing again in Delta? Galaxy is Calling Me had Emilia, and Frontier had the Enka singer in episode 5, both of which could be heard for *miles*, but they were both solo singers. Imagine what a good size force of Zentraedi could do with a proper battle hymn. Maybe as part of a "if we keep singing, the VAR won't get us" measure during a battle?

[RedWolf]

Has there been an illustration of the Fasces Fz-109G Elgerzorene Gustav from Macross the Ride or did it just appear in text only?

[SebastianP]

Has there been an illustration of the Fasces Fz-109G Elgerzorene Gustav from Macross the Ride or did it just appear in text only?

There's nothing on the topic in the Macross The Ride Visual Books (either volume), so I assume no...

[Kelsain]

Has there been any official description, say in the Chronicle, about how the Miclone chambers actually work?

In my head, I had always presumed that the chambers read the DNA of the occupant, and wrote a Miclone sized clone directly from it. But going the other way, it was a guideline that would include the necessary technology & sturctural elements to support a 10m tall humanoid. The transferring of memories and intelligence would be a bit more complicated though.

Though unofficial, this Headcanon was never really contradicted until we saw the Macronized families and children on the Frontier fleet. That doesn't really work with this idea.

So as I have recently discovered, through the Delta Mecha/Tech thread, that Fold Waves are not just a more quantified and advanced understanding of Song Energy, but a completely different thing - is there official info about the Chambers?

Cheers!

[frothymug]

Although I haven't studied any sources on the inner-workings of a miclone chamber, I have given it a lot of thought. It seems logical that it would read, as you said, your genetic code and construct a smaller/bigger counterpart of yourself and then do some kind of memory transfer. However, that would lead to some kind of immortality. Imagine you received some kind of grievous wound, hopped into a miclone chamber, and then reconstructed yourself. Logically, this is because it's just reading your DNA. How would it know your current physical condition? What you had for lunch? What haircut you just had last week?

I'd be interested to know what other people think and/or if there has been any kind of "official" explanation.

[Seto Kaiba]

Has there been any official description, say in the Chronicle, about how the Miclone chambers actually work?

Only in the most general terms, courtesy of one of the Macross Chronicle worldguide sheets.

A miclone system apparently scans the subject's DNA and clones a new body for them, before it transfers the subject's mind across and decomposes the old body into raw material.

What Chronicle focuses on is a genetic trigger present in, and apparently unique to, Zentradi DNA that is vital to the micloning process. When reduced to miclone size, the gene is dormant and the result is a miclone body that is anatomically and biochemically almost identical to a human's (though they're a little more resilient on average and retain some of quirky traits such as pointed ears, odd skin colors, etc.). The gene is active in the enlargement process, causing the miclone system to produce a radically different biochemistry and anatomy that is better suited to combat, changing the position and function of many organs and making them a good deal more resilient as a result.

It is possible to enlarge Humans and other sub-Protoculture species via a miclone system, but presumably they don't get the same combat-enhanced biochemistry and anatomy becuase they lack that genetic trigger... so they're just scaled up and adjusted enough to get around the whole square-cube law problem with giant humanoids. It's not stated, but the system would have to also be replicating a person's microbiome to prevent various health problems, so it probably wouldn't cure diseases or anything like that. (Whether it's smart enough to copy something like the absence of a limb is unclear... but I'd assume it is, given that some other brief descriptions suggest it produces a more or less exact copy of the body.)

[This Confuses Gamlin]

It is possible to enlarge Humans and other sub-Protoculture species via a miclone system, but presumably they don't get the same combat-enhanced biochemistry and anatomy becuase they lack that genetic trigger...

Isn't DYRL Max the only other time that they've shown someone being... maximized?

[RedWolf]

Isn't DYRL Max the only other time that they've shown someone being... maximized?

Graham Hoiley a Zolan went Zentran size in Macross Dynamite 7 to hunt the White Whale.

[Seto Kaiba]

Isn't DYRL Max the only other time that they've shown someone being... maximized?

For non-Zentradi characters, yeah.

Max is the only human we've seen do it on-screen, but Macross Chronicle does mention that it's possible. As RedWolf mentioned, it seems to work fine for Zolans too, with Graham Hoyly having been a giant in Macross Dynamite 7.

Michael Blanc from Macross Frontier is mentioned as being able to do so, but that it would be a one-way trip for him because something about his genes is unsuitable for miclone systems, so the return trip from giant to miclone might kill him.

[JB0]

You know, I never actually considered the "new body heals old wounds" aspect of the micloning process. That is a TOTALLY REASONABLE assumption.

(And raises the possibility that Britai's prosthetic was not due to injury, but for enhancement, since a quick trip through the miclone chambers logically should have restored a damaged face. Which I guess fits with the DYRL-style organic prosthetic... )

[Seto Kaiba]

You know, I never actually considered the "new body heals old wounds" aspect of the micloning process. That is a TOTALLY REASONABLE assumption.

(And raises the possibility that Britai's prosthetic was not due to injury, but for enhancement, since a quick trip through the miclone chambers logically should have restored a damaged face. Which I guess fits with the DYRL-style organic prosthetic... )

Y'know... I honestly can't recall Macross's creators ever offering an explanation for Vrlitwhai's/Britai's bad eye. I know the comics adapted from the-show-that-must-not-be-named made it out to be an eye lost to a combat injury, but the one piece of Macross art to show his face under the plate doesn't show any scarring... just a lazy, possibly blind, eye.

I wonder if it's actually a genetic defect? Something that a micloning machine wouldn't be able to fix even if it did replace missing bits of you when you went through it.

[JB0]

Genetic defect would be exceptionally odd for a genetically-engineered man, though. "Bad eye, needs cybernetics" doesn't seem like something that would've lasted long in the zentradi's genetic lines before the protoculture fixed it.

[Seto Kaiba]

Genetic defect would be exceptionally odd for a genetically-engineered man, though. "Bad eye, needs cybernetics" doesn't seem like something that would've lasted long in the zentradi's genetic lines before the protoculture fixed it.

Yeah, that's true... though it's worth remembering the Zentradi didn't get involved in using cybernetics until DYRL?. In DYRL?, the implant he has seems to be part of the basic design for the commander class Zentradi. In the TV series, the production art shows a damaged, apparently useless eye under what is essentially an outlandish eyepatch.

If it IS a genetic defect, it may be something that resulted from 500,000 years of neglect and automated self-repair on the factory satellite responsible for cloning him. I can't see a way it could be a battle injury since he didn't rise through the ranks... he was cloned to be a fleet commander and would've therefore spent his entire service life on the bridge of a ship.

[Saruta]

Britai did show himself very able in hand-to-robot-hand combat so I guess he had a lot of training in that, and quite possibly did participate in battles.

[SebastianP]

Remember that commander Ogotai from the Gallia IV garrison has a similar eyepiece to Britai, so it might not be an implant but just a piece of equipment.

[mpau25]

Do you guys know which Macross Blu-rays have english subs on them?

Particularly interested in the DYRL and Frontier movies?

[Nazareno2012]

Do you guys know which Macross Blu-rays have english subs on them?

Particularly interested in the DYRL and Frontier movies?

The Frontier movie Blu-Rays have English subs AFAIK.

[Master Dex]

Do you guys know which Macross Blu-rays have english subs on them?

Particularly interested in the DYRL and Frontier movies?

To my knowledge none of them do, as everyone has been going on about how the Delta blu-rays having english subs is a first. If others had that there'd be no reason talk about Delta's blu-ray release as such a big deal (and it is for that alone for sure).

Though, I will caveat that the Macross Plus Movie Edition DVD does have english subs.. but that story also has more western release loopholes since it was the last thing to ever be slipped by Harmony Gold (and thus to actually have a dub of the OVA).

Edited July 2, 2016 by Master Dex

[Seto Kaiba]

Remember that commander Ogotai from the Gallia IV garrison has a similar eyepiece to Britai, so it might not be an implant but just a piece of equipment.

Yes, I remember Major Ogotai from the Macross Frontier series.

It's worth noting that the DYRL? version of the Zentradi (and Meltrandi) didn't use cybernetic enhancements purely to repair wounds. Many types of Zentran and Meltran soldier were equipped with bio-technological enhancements as a matter of standard... I don't want to say equipment, maybe their "standard physical template"? In fact, the only Zentradi commander I know of who received a cybernetic faceplate/eye to repair a wound was the alternate reality version of Quamzin/Kamujin from the Macross II: Lovers Again timeline.¹ Many of the commanders we see have an eyepiece as standard, and it's mentioned in Chronicle that pilots on either side have central nervous system modifications to connect them to their mecha. The Meltrandi have been engineered to have a bio-fiber optic central nervous system and connect to their Queadluun-Rau battle suits via an implant in the optic nerve, while the Zentradi have a hard-plug system that links their central nervous system to the Nousjadeul-Ger.

Do you guys know which Macross Blu-rays have english subs on them?

Particularly interested in the DYRL and Frontier movies?

The Macross Frontier movie v1 blu-rays had English subs. I don't know if the v2's that came out recently do.

Macross Plus's initial blu-ray release even had the English dub on it.

1. The DYRL? version of Quamzin (Quamzin 03350) comes down with a bit of "comic book death" in Macross II's parallel world continuity. Even though he "dies" in the movie fighting Roy, even having a GU-11's magazine emptied into his back and then having a VF-1 blow up in his face couldn't keep him down. Somewhere along the way, his fellows are able to resuscitate him and repair his wounds such that he's still very much alive after the war ends. He eventually flees into space with other Zentradi and Meltrandi malcontents rather than live on Earth, and becomes the chief villain in both canon video games that were made to connect DYRL? to the rest of Macross II's timeline. He comes back at the head of a second Zentradi Army main fleet in 2036, intending to destroy Earth, and in 2037 with a third one attempting to use Earth's culture as a weapon against the Meltrandi. He's defeated the first time by UN Spacy forces under Vrlitwhai 7018 (including Komilia Maria Jenius and her wingman Lott Sheen) and the second time he's technically successful in that the UN Spacy destroys the Meltrandi fleet for him... before rounding on him and kicking his butt too.

[Beltane70]

I'll have to check my v.1, but I could've sworn it was the v.2 of the Frontier movie BDs that had the English subs.

[Master Dex]

Hmm.. I guess the reason the Delta series blu rays are big deals is because it is the first TV series release to get subtitles, as opposed to movies.

[kajnrig]

In both SDFM and DYRL, what model(s)/paint scheme(s) of VF-1 does Max pilot?