The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

The Compendium says about the VF-1: "twelve MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs (three one each hardware not)". Which source speaks about these bombs? No mention in Perfect Memory, DYRL TIA or Macross Chronicle. Maybe the same Macross Plus TIA Special?

Eh... if you don't mind my asking, what prompted this sudden desire to find sources for all of the aspects of the VF-1 that aren't from the animation? Egan Loo didn't just make stuff up, everything that's in there comes from some kind of official source. Some aspects might have been amended since the time of writing, but that information came from somewhere.

Getting back to the actual meat of the question, the bit about Mk.82 LDGB conventional bombs definitely came from some kind of an official source, since it's cited in the first volume of the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie as part of the loadings charts for the VF-1's weaponry. Its original source would appear to be, as you conjectured, one of the later Macross publications to cover the VF-1. I wouldn't have expected the Macross Chronicle to mention it, since its coverage tends to be broad rather than deep in the mechanic sheets.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[gamlin]

I am aware of the Master Files but they are not sanctioned by SK. Thanks anyway.

When I read something I like to know from which come the assertions in order to check by myself. As I said it before, there are also errors in the compendium.

[Seto Kaiba]

When I read something I like to know from which come the assertions in order to check by myself. As I said it before, there are also errors in the compendium.

Could you give an example of an error in the Macross Compendium?

(When I see Talos later today, I'll ask him to look in TIA M+ for you regarding those Mk.82 bombs)

Edited May 17, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[gamlin]

just one example, it's not the good place for this:

"December 1

Macross VF-X2 Mission 7: "Pinocchio"

VF-X Ravens intercept Rorqual submarines on Planet Eden. "

-->Good place is Eden 3.

I am a specialist in the chronology and not mechas, which explains my questions.

About Macross Plus TIA, it is necessary that I buy this book!

Edited May 17, 2011 by gamlin

[Seto Kaiba]

just one example, it's not the good place for this:

Okay, you've got me there... that is an error, albeit a relatively minor one. It's an understandable mistake to make, either as a simple transposition error or confusing Macross VF-X2's Eden 3 with Macross Plus's Eden. Since you brought it to my attention, I checked it against the Macross VF-X2 Official Visual Guide and made the appropriate correction.

Still, that's an error in the Macross Compendium Wiki, which is maintained and updated by fans... not the original Compendium that was written by Egan Loo. The Mk-82 bombs are mentioned in the VF-1 article in the original Compendium as well, which means the info came from some kind of official printed source. Anyway, we'll do our best to find an answer for you.

[gamlin]

Great

Another one, about VF-1:

" Wing span

Fully extended 20°: 14.78m"

It must be an outdated information because Macross Chronicle, Macross Plus TIA (the part translated by Sketchley) and some others indicates 14.23m.

[Seto Kaiba]

It must be an outdated information because Macross Chronicle, Macross Plus TIA (the part translated by Sketchley) and some others indicates 14.23m.

Bubble-bursting time... that's not an error, at least not on the Compendium's part. The VF-1 Valkyrie is 14.23 meters long in fighter mode, with a wingspan (at full extension) measuring 14.78 meters across. sketchley's translation of This is Animation Special: Macross Plus (link) says:

Length: 14.23 m

Height: 3.84 m

Width: 14.78 m ( maximum extension); 8.25 m (minimum extension)

... which is entirely correct and matches perfectly with what's said in the Macross Compendium's old and new VF-1 entries, and on the following Macross Chronicle mechanic sheets:

• SDF:M UN Spacy #02A (VF-1J Valkyrie)
• SDF:M UN Spacy #03A (VF-1S Valkyrie)
• SDF:M UN Spacy #04A (VF-1A Valkyrie)
• SDF:M UN Spacy #05A (VF-1D Valkyrie - a different length is cited, probably a typo, same wingspan though)
• DYRL UN Spacy #02A (VF-1S Valkyrie)
• DYRL UN Spacy #03A (VF-1A Valkyrie)

Edited May 17, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[gamlin]

My god you're right, i'm blind

Sorry to have said stupidities.

gamlin vs Seto Kaiba 01-01

What about:

"2002

May

Construction of Earth U.N. Military Headquarters for anti-stellar-warfare begins in Alaska. On the same site, Grand Cannon System I is constructed. "

Since the retcon is may 2001. source: MC timeline 00 and 01, world guide 01B, technology 08A.

Edited May 17, 2011 by gamlin

[Seto Kaiba]

Rollin' it back to your unanswered question... we have an answer now, courtesy of Talos.

The Compendium says about the VF-1: "twelve MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs (three one each hardware not)". Which source speaks about these bombs? No mention in Perfect Memory, DYRL TIA or Macross Chronicle. Maybe the same Macross Plus TIA Special?

Yes, the MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs on the VF-1 are from This is Animation Special: Macross Plus p57.

[gamlin]

Thanks you and Talos, I need this book definitely.

[sketchley]

What about:

"2002

May

Construction of Earth U.N. Military Headquarters for anti-stellar-warfare begins in Alaska. On the same site, Grand Cannon System I is constructed. "

Since the retcon is may 2001. source: MC timeline 00 and 01, world guide 01B, technology 08A.

If the retcon says 2001.05, then it's 2001.05.

There are a whole bunch of things on the Macross Compendium that have not been updated - mostly because there aren't that many people performing updates, and of those that are, they are interested in getting the information on Macross F and Macross the Ride added.

If you have the time, feel free to amend the Macross Compendium wiki with the retconned information; just make sure you note the source in the part where it asks for the description or reason for the edit.

[gamlin]

It's probably the best solution. That frightens me, there is a lot of work in the chronology section and i'm not familiar with wiki.

[Talos]

Thanks you and Talos, I need this book definitely.

Glad I could help. I had just gotten up and gotten online when Seto forwarded me your request.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Does anybody know if the postman who gets killed by Hikaru while crashing the VF-1D in the first episode was based on the guy who lost the episode reel back in 1982?

Edited May 19, 2011 by Kronnang Dunn

[Renato]

Does anybody know if the postman who gets killed by Hikaru while crashing the VF-1D in the first episode was based on the guy who lost the episode reel back in 1982?

I'm sure it wasn't, since all indication points to the episode with the VF-1D being animated way earlier than the one that was lost.

By the way, for the sake of trivia, the episode which was lost was "Bye-Bye Mars", and it was left on the Chuo Line by Tatsunoko producer Hiroshi Iwata (who is not a postman), as he and director Noboru Ishiguro got off the train at Kokubunji (where Tatsunoko is still located today). Apparently they got on another train and took it to the end of the line where they inquired at lost & found, but it was nowhere to be seen. By that point there was no choice but to go back to the studio, then back to Tokyo Genzousho (in Chofu at the other side of town) to make another print and re-record and re-edit the dialogue in record time (though this may have still taken a few days). After the broadcast the reel did turn up again, it seems it had been thrown in the trash.

EDIT -- It was almost "Bye-bye, 'Bye-bye Mars'". Yeah, I couldn't resist.

EDIT 2 -- There was talk going around that the guy who gets killed is not a postman at all, but Kawamori himself. I don't remember where I read/heard this, though. To be honest, I haven't seen the anime in a looong time. I might have to do just that first.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Renato

[Xard]

Might as well throw in a bunch of MacrossF (tv series) questions that have always bothered me a bit:

1. First of all the bit about Ranka's website(s) getting constantly hacked in ep 9. Elmo mentions it, puzzled, in episode 9 when he discusses ways to promote her with Bobby. Then it never comes up again. Initially I thought that maybe it was Ozma or something as he isn't all that happy with Ranka's choice of career but obviously that doesn't make any sense. So I presume it was Leon/Government goons but I'm not really sure about the motivation. At this point they didn't know about her power and effect on Vajra either so...

2. related to above, for a long time I used to think Ranka simply lost to Miranda in ep 4 competition. But then there's the bit of Leon looking at Ranka's file and calling the director, which makes Cathy clearly frown. So did Leon arrange it so that Ranka would lose? Again, I'm not sure what the motivation would be, perhaps he thought she'd be easier to survey if she was just "average girl" but I'm not so sure about this either.

3. This is one thing in series that still baffles me and makes me wonder if it is a plot hole. How/why did everyone accept that Grace survived back from Gallia IV without hitch? Last time anyone saw her was in the Gallia IV base that got swallowed and she had no private VF with her. So did she make up story of Brera saving her or what?

4. In finale when Ranka breaks free, aided by Sheryl and Alto, the harmonica she had around her neck broke. Was the harmonica symbolic or real, and if it was real how could it break?

[frothymug]

Seems that questions 1 through 3 are left up to the imagination of the viewer. No plot holes, really... Not enough time in the series to go into that kind of detail, I suppose.

As for #4, I've always considered it to be symbolic of her mental captivity.

[Seto Kaiba]

1. First of all the bit about Ranka's website(s) getting constantly hacked in ep 9. Elmo mentions it, puzzled, in episode 9 when he discusses ways to promote her with Bobby. [...] I presume it was Leon/Government goons but I'm not really sure about the motivation.

The most likely (and painfully obvious) candidate to be hacking Ranka's website would be Grace O'Connor, since she was Sheryl's manager and had an ulterior motive to keep Sheryl active for the sake of her plot. We see several times that Grace has some fairly advanced computer skills courtesy of her cybernetics.

2. related to above, for a long time I used to think Ranka simply lost to Miranda in ep 4 competition. But then there's the bit of Leon looking at Ranka's file and calling the director, which makes Cathy clearly frown. So did Leon arrange it so that Ranka would lose?

Does it matter? The series never suggests that she lost due to foul play, and what motivation would Leon have had to keep Ranka from winning when her significance as "Q1" wasn't confirmed by Grace until later in the show. Leon would only have known Ranka as a survivor of the 117th Research Fleet. Maybe Leon just marks to high standards, since Ranka fell over at the end of her performance.

3. This is one thing in series that still baffles me and makes me wonder if it is a plot hole. How/why did everyone accept that Grace survived back from Gallia IV without hitch?

Grace's main ally in the Frontier Government was the president's chief of staff and a highly placed officer in the NUNS... he would have been able to come up with a convincing cover story, especially since he'd already covered for her and for Galaxy when the VF-27 came to light and he wrote it off as a foo fighter.

4. In finale when Ranka breaks free, aided by Sheryl and Alto, the harmonica she had around her neck broke. Was the harmonica symbolic or real, and if it was real how could it break?

Considering that we see Brera hand it to her, and we also see him playing it at several points throughout the series while he was outside his VF-27... it's definitely real. It was presumably the medium Grace was using to manipulate Ranka, since the harmonica had the same design on it as Brera's hairpin, which was the mechanism that let Grace control him, and it broke when Ranka was able to snap out of her depression... presumably as the result of a catastrophic mechanical failure. When Brera's hairpin broke, it damn near took out his eye.

[Xard]

Thanks for the replies guys!

The most likely (and painfully obvious) candidate to be hacking Ranka's website would be Grace O'Connor, since she was Sheryl's manager and had an ulterior motive to keep Sheryl active for the sake of her plot. We see several times that Grace has some fairly advanced computer skills courtesy of her cybernetics.

...oh wow don't I feel like a comlplete idiot now.

Damn. That's so obvious now that I think about it, at that point Project Fairy was still going on >_<

Does it matter? The series never suggests that she lost due to foul play, and what motivation would Leon have had to keep Ranka from winning when her significance as "Q1" wasn't confirmed by Grace until later in the show. Leon would only have known Ranka as a survivor of the 117th Research Fleet. Maybe Leon just marks to high standards, since Ranka fell over at the end of her performance.

Well, Mishima said this in ep 15

She was a survivor from the 117th fleet, but her blood tests revealed nothing, and she didn't have any memories either. Even then, I thought she might be useful at some point, so I continued my surveillance on her. To think that... I actually hit the bullseye.

so he did have interest in Ranka from the start. And yeah, I never thought there was any sort of foul play going on before but there's that angry, "knowing" face Cathy pulls the moment Leon starts to talk to director about Ranka. Why include that if there wasn't something fishy in what he was doing?

Grace's main ally in the Frontier Government was the president's chief of staff and a highly placed officer in the NUNS... he would have been able to come up with a convincing cover story, especially since he'd already covered for her and for Galaxy when the VF-27 came to light and he wrote it off as a foo fighter.

Oh yes, it's not that I thought they couldn't come up with good cover story. I guess I was just always bothered why nobody bothered to ask her. She kinda just walks in Sheryl's room and everyone is "oh, you're alive" "yup". I would've naturally asked "well just how did you survive" but everyone just kind of...accepts it. It always bothered me. I guess it's not a plot hole per se but just a bizarre lack of curiosity...

Considering that we see Brera hand it to her, and we also see him playing it at several points throughout the series while he was outside his VF-27... it's definitely real. It was presumably the medium Grace was using to manipulate Ranka, since the harmonica had the same design on it as Brera's hairpin, which was the mechanism that let Grace control him, and it broke when Ranka was able to snap out of her depression... presumably as the result of a catastrophic mechanical failure. When Brera's hairpin broke, it damn near took out his eye.

On the other hand Ranka loses it in space in ep 23 after Vajra kidnap her, so maybe the control device was just similar in shape to further mindscrew Ranka... that said, I think I figured this out satisfactorily on my own today.

I've been rewatching Macross Frontier eps here and there (hence all these questions ) now that I'm back home to get reminder of how things were in tv series in comparison to the (bloody amazing) Sayonara no Tsubasa. Today I rewatched eps 23 and 24. In there they specifically mentioned implants with fold quartz. Brera clearly has one but I didn't ever really realize the harmonica had the similar shape to Brera's hairpin. So while the harmonica isn't implant per se it also uses fold quartz in its functions. That it dissipates into the violet "sparkles" associated with fold effects proves it.

This explains why it could breka simply through Ranka's mental effort, the fold waves she emits are powerful indeed. It breaking simply due to Ranka's "power up" ( ) wouldn't make much sense if it was just normally mechanical, but it being part of the whole fold field/network would certainly explain things. So I guess there isn't conflict symbolically breaking free and having the device literally malfunction

**************

I'm still wondering about Ai-kun's behaviour in ep 23 though. Did the full power of Vajra hivemind take him over or what? Reason I ask this is because in general it exhibits a degree of "individualism" (Vajra Queen didn't control the drones like robots like Grace did) and bonding with Ranka and when the guardian Vajras first attack Brera and Ranka they violently also crash against/on Ai-kun who has so far peacefully flown next to VF-27. But next time we see him he lures Ranka out the ship and kidnaps her. So I still wonder whether Ai-kun planned to "save" Ranka this way from the start or not...I guess there's no official material in form of interviews or something that would help with this thing?

oh, and is there answer to question to just how large extent Mr. Bilrer's plans differed from those of Galaxy and Grace? He was after fold quarts, Vajra network and "uniting the Galaxy" as one without faults but he never gave off the impression of being at all interested in the whole hivemind project.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Xard

[mrhillz]

I've never seen anything about it in any art book, but did Shoji Kawamori ever design Super/Strike parts for the VF-4? If not, where do you think they would go on the plane? Or part of it on the wings, a la part of the VF-25's tornado pack. Just something to think about .

[Kronnang Dunn]

There was talk going around that the guy who gets killed is not a postman at all, but Kawamori himself. I don't remember where I read/heard this, though. To be honest, I haven't seen the anime in a looong time. I might have to do just that first.

I think it was a postman because he had a blue uniform/clothes... as well as a mailbag filled with papers... Fun thing is he seemed happy while the VF-1D exhaust ports blew him away, LOL...

[sketchley]

I think it was a postman because he had a blue uniform/clothes... as well as a mailbag filled with papers... Fun thing is he seemed happy while the VF-1D exhaust ports blew him away, LOL...

I've heard it was him - especially because the building the VF-1D smashes through is reportedly the Studio Nue offices!

I've never seen anything about it in any art book, but did Shoji Kawamori ever design Super/Strike parts for the VF-4? If not, where do you think they would go on the plane? Or part of it on the wings, a la part of the VF-25's tornado pack. Just something to think about .

Two official designs exist. One is for the video game "Macross 2036" (if memory serves), which was released before Kawamori-san finalized the GERWALK and battroid mode design of the VF-4; so both the FAST packs and battroid mode look like the VF-1's.

The other, a design penned by Kawamori-san, though not necessarily "official" - see picture in this section: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Statistics/VF-4/VF-4.html#OPTIONAL_SYSTEMS

As for unofficial FAST packs, I came up with a design over a decade ago :

schematic: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/gallery/142336#/d11d6a4

battroid:

Edited May 23, 2011 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

I've never seen anything about it in any art book, but did Shoji Kawamori ever design Super/Strike parts for the VF-4? If not, where do you think they would go on the plane? Or part of it on the wings, a la part of the VF-25's tornado pack. Just something to think about .

Yes, it does appear that he did... though it's worth nothing that he wasn't the only Macross mechanical designer to do so. There's a sketch of what appears to be a VF-4 w/ Super Packs in the line art that was released with the 1/72 Musasiya VF-4 resin kit, which is included in M3's coverage of the VF-4. Macross II's mechanical designers also created a set of Super Packs for their version of the VF-4, which appeared in the Macross II prequel game Macross: Eternal Love Song. The DYRLverse VF-4 Siren had a VF-1-esque transformation and a set of super packs that mounted on the wing between the nacelles and the airframe spine, which contained missile launchers and (depending on the mission) funnels. (Yes, funnels... like in Gundam)

EDIT: Got ninja'd by sketchley, tho the art for the Kawamori VF-4 Super Packs on M3 is somewhat larger and cleaner. Other than that, just corrections/detail for the VF-4S Siren's gear from Macross: Eternal Love Song.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

Ninja kick!

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

As for unofficial FAST packs, I came up with a design over a decade ago :

schematic: http://studiootaking.deviantart.com/gallery/142336#/d11d6a4

battroid:

I think I like yours better

[Macross007]

From the official Macross timeline :

2067

May 31 - Cassel and Kavryn appear in deep space.

Unspecified - Deployment of experimental Super Dimension Fold Drive, allowing time and alternate reality travel; and string oscilation displacement technology, allowing exploration of time and alternate realities.

Unspecified - Assembly of the Black Wraiths 2 for alternate reality time exploration and manipulation missions.

Unspecified - Discovery that Sheik Yer-bootii is altering time for his benefit.

Unspecified - Alteration of Black Wraiths 2 mission: now charged with restoring the timeline. Learned through Zentraadi lore that the Janus is rumoured to allow time travel. Mission created whereby an operative transfers to an alternate reality to learn the location of the Janus so as to prevent this reality's timeline from being further altered.

Time travel in Macross now !?!?!? Can somebody explain that to me ?

[Seto Kaiba]

Time travel in Macross now !?!?!? Can somebody explain that to me ?

As I pointed out in the other thread, the black text in the timeline on sketchley's site is plot material from role-playing game sessions held on macrossroleplay.org. Only the green text is canon, while the steel blue text is "Expanded Universe" material apparently gleaned from Master File.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

From the official Macross timeline :

2067

(...)

The reading of the fine print is the important...

The "official" official timeline: http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Category:Chronology

Thank's Seto Kaiba for explaining the fine pint.

Edited May 26, 2011 by sketchley

[frothymug]

I'd also like to point out that this "Sheik Yer-Bootii" character's name should be a dead giveaway that it's probably not canon. Ah, fun with synonyms...

[hulagu]

I've heard it was him - especially because the building the VF-1D smashes through is reportedly the Studio Nue offices!

I think it's likely, since his cameo in DYRL is also killed off by a botched landing when the Nousjadeul-Ger faceplants into him at the beginning of the movie, LOL.

[sketchley]

I think it's likely, since his cameo in DYRL is also killed off by a botched landing when the Nousjadeul-Ger faceplants into him at the beginning of the movie, LOL.

Ahh, yes. The more memorable of the two cameo-death scenes. What is it in DYRL? He's a creepy guy leaning over Minmei trying to get an autograph when a piece of concrete from the falling power-suit severs his head?

[Seto Kaiba]

Thank's Seto Kaiba for explaining the fine pint.

's no problem, we aim to please.

I'd also like to point out that this "Sheik Yer-Bootii" character's name should be a dead giveaway that it's probably not canon. Ah, fun with synonyms...

Heh... synonyms nothing, that's a covert musical reference. Sheik Yerbouti was a 1979 studio album by comical rocker and serial weirdo Frank Zappa.

[Renato]

I'd also like to point out that this "Sheik Yer-Bootii" character's name should be a dead giveaway that it's probably not canon. Ah, fun with synonyms...

Didn't stop Sunrise giving Gundam characters ridiculous names like "Full Frontal". I wouldn't mind if the characters at least snickered when they said it. "Why so serious?" indeed.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Renato

[Kronnang Dunn]

Ahh, yes. The more memorable of the two cameo-death scenes. What is it in DYRL? He's a creepy guy leaning over Minmei trying to get an autograph when a piece of concrete from the falling power-suit severs his head?

Nope... I remember the decapitated guy appeared near the end of the film... during the last battle. Kawamori-san was just smashed by the ceiling at the initial battle I believe...

[gamlin]

I have a question that bothers me. Where appears VF-4 A, B, C and D for the first time ?