The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[RedWolf]

Is there a timeline of all the major events in Macross? I'm finding it a bit difficult to remember/keep track of all the themes introduced. For example, I keep hearing that the SA where somehow related to the PD but all this time I thought they (the SA) were the PC! Eeek!

On Macross Compendium search box type Chronology.

If I recall, the Varuata's fleet were created (not sure how) from the Megaroad 13 fleet. The composition of that fleet was not really known as per official media. The Megaroad 13 fleet was not necessarily a human fleet either, and the "V" ships could very well have been built upon Zentradi superstructures. There is no reason to conclude that the ships of the Varuata's fleet are original ships from the SA fleet as we have come to understand that the SA fleet had long since dispersed since the time of the PD war. Debates on this board also argued that any "recall" of such forces could have brought the attention of Zentradi fleets still hunting SA remnants, if such fleet were still under the PD mind control. It is not currently known if all the ships in the PD fleet in M7 were originally sourced from the Megaroad fleet or if more ships were comandeered from other task forces in the area such as the Varuata Research Fleet. This has not been fully explained,as far as I am aware.

My gut says either the Protodevlin seized the Varauta colony industrial manufacturing or the ice planet has factory facilities itself.

PC 2865

• Development on powerful biological weapons based on the Zentradi, "Evil Series," begins. [Note: "Evil" pronounced as "Eh-vil."] Evil is the abbreviation of the Protoculture term for "advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapon." Trial production takes place on a scientifically advanced planet (the first planet of the star system later known as Varauta), but because of unresolvable problems with the weapons' power exceeding the fighting capability requirements, trial production is halted.

[Seto Kaiba]

Though, I am not sure how or why an "energy being" would "build" their own proprietary ships as one would expect them not to require these devices and thus one has to question how they would know how to build such craft. One of the many puzzles of M7, I suppose.

... what's a puzzle about it? The official chronology tells us point-blank that the Protodeviln raised an army from the spiritia-drained and mind-controlled Protoculture and Zentradi they encountered to fight for them and secure more spiritia to sustain themselves in three-dimensional space. That army was the Supervision Army. The first world to fall under their control was the world where their bio-weapon bodies were built, which was an advanced arsenal world for one side in the Schism War. It had literally everything they would need to produce a war fleet and even soldiers... including an enslavable population of technical experts.

The ships seen in M7 were not SA ships, they appear to have been modified versions of ships from the Megaroad 13 fleet. This would follow with the apparently modified fighter craft.

The ships in Macross 7 were, yes, vessels built by the Varauta system colony established by Megaroad-13 and improved with some ancient technologies the Protodeviln were able to supply. Geperunicch's flagship was originally constructed by the colony to be the flagship of their planetary defense against large-scale threats like rogue Zentradi fleets.

They likely had to build a large number of new vessels to reach their ~500 warship fleet due to the fact that they turned most of the population into brainwashed soldiers, rather than the fraction who would have actually been soldiers in the UN Forces.

My gut says either the Protodevlin seized the Varauta colony industrial manufacturing or the ice planet has factory facilities itself.

Emigrant ships are, as a matter of course, equipped with manufacturing facilities... but in this case the Varauta system colony looks to have had a fairly extensive shipbuilding infrastructure already, considering the largest ship on the "Varauta Army" fleet predates the Protodeviln's accidental release from captivity.

[Mit]

By the way, I heard that all the film adaptation of "Macross" are a kind of interpretation of real events in the universe "Macross", which means all the movies / OVA / anime series is the same canonical ...

Is it believable? If "yes", then what would be the "event" really?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Mit

[Gubaba]

By the way, I heard that all the film adaptation of "Macross" are a kind of interpretation of real events in the universe "Macross", which means all the movies / OVA / anime series is the same canonical ...Is it believable? If "yes", then what would be the "event" really?

Yes, that's what Kawamori has said.

The actual events dramatized would differ from the fictional versions probably by not having to fit neatly into a series of 25-minute episodes or two-hour movies, nor would they have to please sponsors and toy companies.

[RedWolf]

Emigrant ships are, as a matter of course, equipped with manufacturing facilities... but in this case the Varauta system colony looks to have had a fairly extensive shipbuilding infrastructure already, considering the largest ship on the "Varauta Army" fleet predates the Protodeviln's accidental release from captivity.

Wait really? *Reads Macross Chronicle entry on Varauta fleet*

Holy crap! The Varauta colony went with the Macross Cannon class defense approach instead of a defense grid. Not bothering with a transformable Macross.

This is more feasible to the UN Forces HQ orders of killing Lost Zentradi fleets when Macross 7 encountered Chlore's fleet.

[Seto Kaiba]

Wait really? *Reads Macross Chronicle entry on Varauta fleet*

Holy crap! The Varauta colony went with the Macross Cannon class defense approach instead of a defense grid. Not bothering with a transformable Macross.

Yeah, they aren't really specific about what "upgrades" were made to the base human starship designs, but the Varauta Army's fleet is human warships. I think the only one of the classes that was actually developed completely under the Protodeviln occupation was the "New Gigantic Carrier", which was meant to address their tactical shortcoming of not having a dedicated carrier.

[Zinjo]

So exactly how logical would it be to imprison the most powerful bio-weapons in the galaxy on a planet with a fully functional starship yard?? Sounds more like a literary device to explain the existence of the Varauta fleet of ships than a reasonable tactical move.

[RedWolf]

So exactly how logical would it be to imprison the most powerful bio-weapons in the galaxy on a planet with a fully functional starship yard?? Sounds more like a literary device to explain the existence of the Varauta fleet of ships than a reasonable tactical move.

Well it is the same planet where the Supervision Army was created.

PC 2871

• On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, trial production of the "Evil Series" for final tests is begun. Seven Evil Series weapons of seven types including a highly mobile, humanoid "Sivil" for search-and-destroy functions and a super-scale, high-powered "Glavil" for fleet warfare are completed. The Evil Series tests are begun, but at the same time biological super dimension organs overload and extradimensional energy is released. The Evil Series' bodies are occupied by the spiritual energy life form from the sub-universe and thus creating, from the massive fighting capability of the Evil Series and the enormous potential of the spiritial energy, beings with extraordinary fighting ability and a coveting for life energy, "Spiritia." They covet Spiritia in order to continue existing as extra-dimensional beings in this universe. They begin invading the surrounding planets and systems using spaceships and weapons of people from the scientifically advanced planet that they brainwashed. (They later become known as the Supervision Army).

If the ice planet facilities were so advanced it is probably the only place with the right equipment to imprison the Protodevlin.

The ice planet was so important that UN Forces HQ sent their own man Ivano Gyunther to investigate.

[Seto Kaiba]

So exactly how logical would it be to imprison the most powerful bio-weapons in the galaxy on a planet with a fully functional starship yard?? Sounds more like a literary device to explain the existence of the Varauta fleet of ships than a reasonable tactical move.

Well, that's an interesting point... we know that the 4th planet of the system humans know as Varauta was originally an advanced arsenal world when its scientists developed the technical theory behind the Advanced All-Environment Bio-Weapon (Evil series Zentradi) and biological super dimension energy gates which made the accident that bonded extradimensional energy beings to the Evil-series prototypes possible ("creating" the Protodeviln). We don't know that the Protoculture's counterattack against the Supervision Army left much (if anything) standing on the planet's surface when they finally captured the Protodeviln and built a prison to hold them, then turned the planet into a frozen wasteland with an entropy control field. It was still very much a barren, frozen wasteland half a million years in the future, when the Varauta system's survey group accidentally awoke the Protodeviln while examining the archaeotech of their prison.

The Varauta Army ships from Macross 7 were produced by the shipyards (and shipwrights) of the captured and brainwashed human colony set up by Megaroad 13 in the Varauta system. Some of the ships, like the fleet flagship, predate the Protodeviln's awakening in 2043.

[Zinjo]

Well, that's an interesting point... we know that the 4th planet of the system humans know as Varauta was originally an advanced arsenal world when its scientists developed the technical theory behind the Advanced All-Environment Bio-Weapon (Evil series Zentradi) and biological super dimension energy gates which made the accident that bonded extradimensional energy beings to the Evil-series prototypes possible ("creating" the Protodeviln). We don't know that the Protoculture's counterattack against the Supervision Army left much (if anything) standing on the planet's surface when they finally captured the Protodeviln and built a prison to hold them, then turned the planet into a frozen wasteland with an entropy control field. It was still very much a barren, frozen wasteland half a million years in the future, when the Varauta system's survey group accidentally awoke the Protodeviln while examining the archaeotech of their prison.

The Varauta Army ships from Macross 7 were produced by the shipyards (and shipwrights) of the captured and brainwashed human colony set up by Megaroad 13 in the Varauta system. Some of the ships, like the fleet flagship, predate the Protodeviln's awakening in 2043.

The question then remains, could they build 500 capital ships in 2 years with construction facilities available to them in the fleet, as well as "recondition"(?) a 5 KM square battle carrier?

This area still seems fuzzy to me. Even if the 500 ships were built over the lifetime of the colony and were subsequently comandeered, that would be 25 capital ships per year or 2+ capital ships per month without a factory satellite! This doesn't take into account the 8600+ fighter craft.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Zinjo

[mickyg]

Thanks for the Macross Compendium links, guys. I guess I should have worded my question a bit better than I did. Chronology is one thing, determining which source discusses which aspects of Macross history is what I really meant.

For example, all this talk of the Protodeviln (PD) and how they're connected to both the Protoculture (PC) and Supervision Army (SA) is I think covered in Macross 7 but I must admit, I either missed that when watching the series or it's covered in additional material outside the TV series.

Finding that info and knowing what series it's covered in is really what I was getting at with my previous question. So chronology is important, yes, but what is the source for that info, is probably the better question.

And no, couldn't find much on the compendium about PD, PC or SA. But I may not be looking hard enough.

Very fascinating info you guys are discussing at the moment, by the way.

[azrael]

Finding that info and knowing what series it's covered in is really what I was getting at with my previous question. So chronology is important, yes, but what is the source for that info, is probably the better question.

Frankly, you are better off using Macross Chronicle as your source than attempting to find all the Compendium's original sources, which likely Egan Loo has all of. Prior to the Chronicle, information was scattered in various publications and throughout the productions and their related materials. And that material was released during the production-wise lifetime. Some of it will be in the artbooks, but some of it will be from back issues of magazines, which will be harder to track down.

[Seto Kaiba]

The question then remains, could they build 500 capital ships in 2 years with construction facilities available to them in the fleet, as well as "recondition"(?) a 5 KM square battle carrier?

This area still seems fuzzy to me. Even if the 500 ships were built over the lifetime of the colony and were subsequently comandeered, that would be 25 capital ships per year or 2+ capital ships per month without a factory satellite! This doesn't take into account the 8600+ fighter craft.

Really, with a working shipyard capable of building something like the fleet flagship space carrier already in their possession, it doesn't strike me as being all that unreasonable that a shipyard like that could produce the ~500 ships of the Varauta Army fleet in two years. It's highly probable that quite a few of the ships were already built by the colonists in the twenty-odd years they'd had to bolster their forces between the initial settlement and Protodeviln's takeover. An emigrant fleet from that period would've already had a defense force of around 80 warships, and with that huge mothership it seems the Varauta colony was concerned about the prospect of a Zentradi branch fleet showing up uninvited and in the midst of an arms buildup even before they were captured.

Still, basically 60% of that fleet was made up of the Vanguard Frigate-type warships that are about 1/2 the size of a Northampton-class stealth frigate probably helped speed the blow, and the other classes were either of comparable size or smaller than comparable UN Forces warships. They did have a brainwashed slave workforce of over half a million to play with too...

[Zinjo]

Really, with a working shipyard capable of building something like the fleet flagship space carrier already in their possession, it doesn't strike me as being all that unreasonable that a shipyard like that could produce the ~500 ships of the Varauta Army fleet in two years. It's highly probable that quite a few of the ships were already built by the colonists in the twenty-odd years they'd had to bolster their forces between the initial settlement and Protodeviln's takeover. An emigrant fleet from that period would've already had a defense force of around 80 warships, and with that huge mothership it seems the Varauta colony was concerned about the prospect of a Zentradi branch fleet showing up uninvited and in the midst of an arms buildup even before they were captured.

Still, basically 60% of that fleet was made up of the Vanguard Frigate-type warships that are about 1/2 the size of a Northampton-class stealth frigate probably helped speed the blow, and the other classes were either of comparable size or smaller than comparable UN Forces warships. They did have a brainwashed slave workforce of over half a million to play with too...

OK, we can go back to the incredulity of leaving a functioning shipyard and an abandoned battle carrier next to a prison with the most powerful bio-weapons the PC every created... The same beings who utilized fleet warfare to nearly decimate the PC civilization. It seems about as reasonable as building a prison next to a gun factory, what could possibly go wrong?

I had considered the probability that existing ships could have been modified in a two year period, but still find it hard to believe that, so many ships could be built in two years with fighter compliments. It just seems that whoever fleshed out the details of the the Varauta fleet didn't take the time to work through the details logically. Clearly the fleet seemed necessary as a literary device, but not fully thought through otherwise.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

OK, we can go back to the incredulity of leaving a functioning shipyard and an abandoned battle carrier next to a prison with the most powerful bio-weapons the PC every created... The same beings who utilized fleet warfare to nearly decimate the PC civilization. It seems about as reasonable as building a prison next to a gun factory, what could possibly go wrong?

... you're... not following what I'm saying, eh?

The human (and Zentradi) colonists who colonized the Varauta system half a million years after the Protodeviln were sealed away had no idea that there was an apocalyptically-powerful collection of possessed living weapons buried in an ice planet elsewhere in the system. They didn't even know what the energy field the facility contained was for when they attempted to depower it... so naturally that they'd already built a colony and a shipyard to build ships to protect said colony is not really something that factored the existence of the Protodeviln into consideration.

In hindsight, the biggest problem is that the Protoculture didn't leave an intelligent computer behind to warn people away from the Protodeviln's prison the way they did on Lux... you'd think they ought to have left a "here be monsters" sign or something.

I had considered the probability that existing ships could have been modified in a two year period, but still find it hard to believe that, so many ships could be built in two years with fighter compliments. It just seems that whoever fleshed out the details of the the Varauta fleet didn't take the time to work through the details logically. Clearly the fleet seemed necessary as a literary device, but not fully thought through otherwise.

Like I've indicated previously, we don't know what percentage of those ships already existed before the Protodeviln were accidentally released... but we're talking about a colony that had an impressive military manufacturing infrastructure (and the Megaroad-class ships did have internal factories) and a populace that could be put to work with no argument, debate, or pay.

[Mit]

By the way, are there any data on the total population in the Earth, in the colonies and migratory fleets at the time of "Macross Frontier"?

[Seto Kaiba]

By the way, are there any data on the total population in the Earth, in the colonies and migratory fleets at the time of "Macross Frontier"?

Apart from occasional mentions of individual emigrant fleet populations at the time of their respective shows, no... and there is apparently some significant levels of variation in size, composition, and population between emigrant fleets even in the same generation.

In 2012, the Megaroad-01 emigrant fleet (1st Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet) had 25,000 people aboard the actual Megaroad-01 emigrant ship, and may have had approximately 80,000 total people counting its escort detail.

The SDFN-type Macross-class ships used in the Mankind Seeding Program as escorts and advanced reconnaissance supposedly carried 10,000 emigrants.

In 2037, a (pseudo-canon) colony established on Supika III by a Megaroad-class emigrant ship (fleet unknown) had a population of approximately 60,000 at the time it was destroyed by a rogue Zentradi fleet.

In 2043, the Varauta 3198XE colony established by Megaroad-13 had a population of several hundred thousand when it was captured by the Protodeviln.

In 2045, the Macross-7 emigrant fleet (37th Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet) had a total population of approximately 1 million, 350,000 of which were residents of the City-7, the rest of whom were living on its various support ships and

In 2059, the Macross Frontier emigrant fleet (55th Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet) had a total population of approximately 10 million people,

If we were to guess wildly by assuming that the various canon emigrant fleets are representative of their generations of emigrant fleet, that'd put it at above 158 million space emigrants not counting short-range fleets and the population growth resulting from settled planets.

[Mit]

By the way, is there any information about the Navy at all? I mean, for immigrant fleets have a more or less detailed information, but what about the intelligence, research; merchant and passenger; military and other fleets?

[RedWolf]

By the way, is there any information about the Navy at all? I mean, for immigrant fleets have a more or less detailed information, but what about the intelligence, research; merchant and passenger; military and other fleets?

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/U.N._Forces

U.N. Forces

From Macross Compendium

UNAF U.N. Air Force UNN U.N. Navy UNS U.N. Spacy UNSAF U.N. Space Air Force UNSM U.N. Space Marines

Isamu Dyson was a member of the Galaxy Patrol in 2038 and Outer Space Special Science Force in 2039. Zola has its own Galaxy Patrol, Galaxy Patrol in Zola is more of law enforcement like the Coast Guard.

Max and Milia during their time in Dancing Skull Squadron was under the UN Intelligence Division usually dealing with rebel Zentradi and Human separatists. However in one mission they had to deal with a UN Forces mistake on the Protoculture ruin planet New Asia. They had to exterminate giant Bugs created with Protoculture technology.

117th Research Fleet was in Macross Frontier studying the Vajra. At the time Mao Nome was the foremost expert on the Protoculture.

The Varauta Research Fleet was sent from the Varauta colony to the 4th planet of the system on orders of Earth UN Forces HQ. That unsealed the Protodevlin. (Sensing a pattern here?)

The SDFN Macross Class ships are meant to lead recon fleets trailblazing the paths of emigration fleets. Those named are SDFN-01 Takashi Hayase, SDFN-04 Global which was abandoned and destroyed in Macross Frontier, and SDFN-08 Vrlitwhai Kridanik aka Vrlitwhai City which colonized Planet Ouroboros.

There is no emigration fleet called Macross 13. Instead the name is taken by a fleet defending Earth. 727th Independent Squadron VF-X Ravens was attached to the Macross 13 Fleet in Macross VF-X2 in 2050 to 2051. In the Macross Frontier Light Novel Macross 13 was led by former SDF-1 Macross bridge operator now Lt. General Kim Kabirov in defense of Earth from Macross Galaxy's Vajra invasion.

[kajnrig]

Quick question: Is the YF-19 paint scheme based on any real-world paint schemes (prototype craft or otherwise) a la Skull squadron, or unique? The -21 has heavy Blue Angels inspiration it seems, but I'm less sure about the -19.

[Saruta]

Is it known when Valkyries acquired their own independent fold capability?

[Seto Kaiba]

By the way, is there any information about the Navy at all? I mean, for immigrant fleets have a more or less detailed information, but what about the intelligence, research; merchant and passenger; military and other fleets?

We've had very little information about the rest of the Unification Government's military and civilian spacecraft outside the emigrant fleets.

Several (New) UN Spacy Special Forces units have appeared in various Macross video games... like the Dancing Skulls in Macross M3, the 727th Independent Special Command "Ravens" in Macross VF-X2, or Havamal in Macross 30.

We've had a few details here and there in Frontier-related titles regarding interstellar commerce and shipping. Strategic Military Services (SMS) was originally founded as a protection detail for its parent company's (Bilra Transport Co.'s) interstellar shipping. Other, similar, shipping concerns are mentioned in connection with Macross the Ride as sponsors of Vanquish races. Macross Delta's pilot was the first time we've actually seen a cargo ship though... which seem to be essentially a spacecraft version of an eighteen wheeler lugging around surprisingly conventional-looking shipping containers of produce (and presumably other stuff).

Research-wise, we've seen two research groups... both exceptionally ill-fated. The first was in Macross 7 PLUS episode "Spiritia Dreaming", where the Varauta research/survey fleet was shown deploying to investigate the ruins that turned out to be where the Protodeviln were sealed away. The second was the 117th Research Fleet, which was centered around the SDFN-04, and met its end at the hands of a Vajra swarm. The novelization of Macross Frontier suggests that some research fleets have been funded by private companies, with the 117th being funded by Macross VF-X2 villains Critical Path Corp.

Passenger ships are another vague area. We've not heard anything about civilian corporations operating them, but we've seen a total of three different examples of passenger ships. The first was in Macross II: Lovers Again, and was a civilian shuttle that was apparently analogous to a jet airliner (with restraints that look right off a roller coaster) that traveled to and from the moon. In the Macross Plus OVA we saw the Stellar Whale-class passenger ship, which was something more along the lines of a cruise liner built for space and which Myung and her colleagues took to get from Eden to Earth. The third was the OGL Galaxy Starliners from Macross Frontier, which returned to the jet airliner style, but with a fold system.

Quick question: Is the YF-19 paint scheme based on any real-world paint schemes (prototype craft or otherwise) a la Skull squadron, or unique? The -21 has heavy Blue Angels inspiration it seems, but I'm less sure about the -19.

I don't believe the YF-19 or YF-21 are explicitly modeling their paint jobs on real-world fighter squadron paint schemes.

Is it known when Valkyries acquired their own independent fold capability?

At present, no Valkyrie has true independent fold capability... meaning that they don't actually possess an internal fold system.

The earliest model fighter known to have been outfitted with an external fold system (fold booster) was a VF-X-11 prototype which was stolen by Zentradi deserters in November 2030. Project Super Nova's Advanced Variable Fighter prototypes were the first to have native support for fold boosters rather than having it patched in with avionics upgrades later on (like the VF-11, VF-17, etc.).

[Mit]

"RedWolf" and "Seto Kaiba" - thank you for information

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions about the "Unification War."

According to the technical information in the development of "SV-51" participated "Sukhoi" (Russia) / "Israel Aircraft Industries" (Israel) / "Dornier" (France); the development of "Octos" participated "Daimler Hyperspace Corporation" (Germany) / "Rubin Central Science Bureau for Marine Engineering" (Russia) ... and this is the military equipment "Anti-UN"

So, where to start, how flowed and the completed "Unification War"? And what kind of coalition war with each other?

Is there any information about this?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Mit

[Seto Kaiba]

According to the technical information in the development of "SV-51" participated "Sukhoi" (Russia) / "Israel Aircraft Industries" (Israel) / "Dornier" (France); the development of "Octos" participated "Daimler Hyperspace Corporation" (Germany) / "Rubin Central Science Bureau for Marine Engineering" (Russia) ... and this is the military equipment "Anti-UN"

So, where to start, how flowed and the completed "Unification War"? And what kind of coalition war with each other?

Is there any information about this?

There's a modest amount of information available on the Unification Wars (plural).

Essentially, the Unification Wars were a series of regional conflicts and organized opposition to the Unification Government that sprang up shortly after the public was first told about the existence of aliens and the rough plan to form a world government. Officially, the Unification Wars started in the Middle East in July 2000 (older sources mention it was in a fictional country called the People's Republic of Garalia), though organized opposition to the proposed new government didn't begin until the various nations and organizations that were opposed to the Unification Government's ideology formed a military and political alliance (apparently blissfully ignorant of the irony inherent in doing so) to oppose the new government in January 2001. Other motivations included concerns over the leadership of the UN Government, the distribution of overtechnology to member states (or, as noted by Nora in Zero, the "forced" sharing of technological advances), and the expected assortment of political, ideological, ethnic, and religious quibbles.

Apart from a few major battles, we know very little about the day-to-day details of the conflict. The Anti-Unification Alliance Army made no less than three major attempts to invade and capture South Ataria Island: the first in July 2002, the second in January 2005, and the third in May-November 2006. (A flashback story that appears in the Macross the First manga appears to show a fourth Defensive Battle of South Ataria Island on Christmas Eve/Day 2008.) The other four big military actions of the UN Wars were the hijacking of the Oberth-class destroyer Tsiolkovsky in September 2005 and its subsequent use to destroy the UN fleet returning Mars Base personnel to Earth (and the destruction of the Tsiolkovsky by Bruno J. Global's destroyer Goddard), the November 2005 destruction of the Grand Cannon II construction site by the Anti-UN Alliance Army, the October 2006 destruction of St. Petersburg, Russia, by an Anti-UN Alliance reaction missile attack, and the 2008 Mayan Island incident depicted in Macross Zero.

Politically and militarily, the former Eastern Bloc (Warsaw Pact) states had a huge influence on the Anti-Unification Alliance... though the resistance to the idea of the UN Government prompted formerly pro-American nations to also side with the Alliance. The Russian influence was particularly strong in their mecha, with a major Russian contribution to both the Sv-51 and Octos (though the Sv-51 was a joint Russian-German-Israeli effort and the Octos was a joint Russian-German project). Most of their equipment was apparently conventional though, with the MiG-29 serving as the main fighter of their forces, though more advanced fighter aircraft became available in small numbers (like the MiM-31 Karyobin from the original series or the Sv-51 in Macross Zero).

The UN Wars officially ended in January 2007 with the Russians backing out of the alliance, but the war actually carried on until December 2008 with the various remaining Alliance forces continuing to fight with their much-diminished backing (as in the Mayan Island incident in Macross Zero). Macross the First's alternate depiction of the chronology includes a last, petulant attack on South Ataria island on Christmas 2008, which looks like it'll be brought to a halt by the first combat deployment of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

[Andras]

caught a green flash in TFS and on pause got this screen shot

PPB in G mode?

Is there anything in the source material about the Tornado pack enhancing the PPB like there is for the Armored?

[Seto Kaiba]

PPB in G mode?

Sure looks like it.

Is there anything in the source material about the Tornado pack enhancing the PPB like there is for the Armored?

Not that I'm aware of, no... the TW1 Tornado Pack does have a dedicated power supply of its own (a reaction engine, power condenser, and capacitor) to feed the heavy quantum beam gun turret, but with its operating time at full power being a matter of a few seconds I doubt it could be used to bolster the barrier.

We know that the VF-25's FF-3001A Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbines have a lot more excess output than previous-generation engines... enough that a light form of energy conversion armor can be run in critical areas of the airframe during fighter mode. I would assume that that same excess could be used for operating the pin-point barrier in GERWALK mode, since the thrust requirements in GERWALK are much lower.

[RedWolf]

While we are on the subject of private military contractors like SMS as pointed out by Seito Kaiba there are several instances of corporate forces.

Critical Path Corporation from Macross VF-X2 has private army with black market connections. Macross Galaxy is an odd one compared to other Macross fleets. Their NUNS forces did not originate with UN Spacy or UN Forces but was known as Macross Galaxy Corporate Army.

[Nazareno2012]

While we are on the subject of private military contractors like SMS as pointed out by Seito Kaiba there are several instances of corporate forces.

Critical Path Corporation from Macross VF-X2 has private army with black market connections. Macross Galaxy is an odd one compared to other Macross fleets. Their NUNS forces did not originate with UN Spacy or UN Forces but was known as Macross Galaxy Corporate Army.

If you look closely Battle Galaxy has the NUNS insignia on it but the VF-27's have the "Galaxy" insignia on them.

[Seto Kaiba]

If you look closely Battle Galaxy has the NUNS insignia on it but the VF-27's have the "Galaxy" insignia on them.

Actually, the VF-27 has both the NUNS kite and the Galaxy fleet insignia on it... it's kind of hard to see on Brera's VF-27γ because the NUNS kite is red and Brera's fighter is painted pinkish-purple. It's much more visible on the VF-27β, which are painted that kind of olive green. The NUNS kite is on the starboard wingtip, while the Galaxy fleet emblem is on the port wingtip and side of the nose.

Presumably SMS's VF-25's lack the spiral insignia of the Frontier fleet because they were trial production units not officially attached to fleet NUNS forces.

(Though one has to wonder why the VF-171's only bear the NUNS kite and not the fleet insignia...)

EDIT: Battle Galaxy also has the Galaxy fleet logo on it, it's on the starboard side of the flight deck near the bridge.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Nazareno2012]

I think the reason why the Galaxy insignia is more pronounced is that the Macross Galaxy government is a corporatocracy, and the military forces are a private military company that is a GOCC (government owned and controlled corporation).

[RedWolf]

Is there any official mention of Fold Carbon being used in "cheaper" version of the ISC? As far as I know in order to produce ISC according to Macross Chronicle you need Fold Quartz. The Macross Frontier Japanese wikipedia terminology section mentions it.

[Seto Kaiba]

Is there any official mention of Fold Carbon being used in "cheaper" version of the ISC? As far as I know in order to produce ISC according to Macross Chronicle you need Fold Quartz. The Macross Frontier Japanese wikipedia terminology section mentions it.

Well, yes and no... the YF-21/VF-22 (and Q-Rhea) use the Queadluun-Rau's special inertia vector control system, which was the technological basis for the Inertia Store Converter and probably uses fold carbon, but it's not anywhere near as effective as the fold quartz-based Inertia Store Converter on the YF-24 and all craft derived from it.

So it's a "yes" because you could technically produce the same general effect using fold carbon, and it's a "no" because its actual performance is so much lower that it wouldn't be adequate protection against the high performance of an ISC-equipped fighter.

[Mit]

...Other motivations included concerns over the leadership of the UN Government, the distribution of overtechnology to member states (or, as noted by Nora in Zero, the "forced" sharing of technological advances), and the expected assortment of political, ideological, ethnic, and religious quibbles.

Is there, at least, a rough list of the participating countries of the coalitions?

The other four big military actions of the UN Wars were the hijacking of the Oberth-class destroyer Tsiolkovsky in September 2005 and its subsequent use to destroy the UN fleet returning Mars Base personnel to Earth (and the destruction of the Tsiolkovsky by Bruno J. Global's destroyer Goddard), the November 2005 destruction of the Grand Cannon II construction site by the Anti-UN Alliance Army, the October 2006 destruction of St. Petersburg, Russia, by an Anti-UN Alliance reaction missile attack, and the 2008 Mayan Island incident depicted in Macross Zero.

And what was the strategic sense in most of these operations? In terms of...

1) what practical benefit from an attack on the Mars mission?

2) what the hell to destroy the weapon against the aliens?

3) why destroy one of the cities of his allies?

Politically and militarily, the former Eastern Bloc (Warsaw Pact) states had a huge influence on the Anti-Unification Alliance... though the resistance to the idea of the UN Government prompted formerly pro-American nations to also side with the Alliance.

Eastern Europe - is Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East German, Hungarian People's Republic, Poland and Romania, but without Russia they simply will not have the financial and technical capabilities to develop such weapons ... Participation as Russia marks the beginning of full-scale "World War III"

And why West Germany and France, even Israel, to break off relations with the US UN?

By the way, and on which side has been China?

The UN Wars officially ended in January 2007 with the Russians backing out of the alliance

It turns out that to leave the "Alliance" Russia forced her own allies by attacking St. Petersburg?

Too much weirdness:(

Edited February 9, 2016 by Mit

[Seto Kaiba]

Is there, at least, a rough list of the participating countries of the coalitions?

Sadly, no... the only major players identified in the Anti-Unification Alliance were Russia, Germany, and Israel via their contributions to arming the Alliance. It's implied that the UN Wars may have partly been fought along Cold War lines, with the UN Government's member states (led by former NATO members) squaring off against Anti-Unification partisans in the former Warsaw Pact states.

(Just because certain countries aided the Anti-Unification Alliance doesn't necessarily mean the entire nation was supporting their opposition to the UN Government. Russia and Germany were founding members of OTEC and UN Gov't member states, so their representation in the Alliance may have been more a case of the national government aligning itself with the UN Government and some of the nation's districts/states choosing to align themselves in opposition to it.)

And what was the strategic sense in most of these operations? In terms of...

1) what practical benefit from an attack on the Mars mission?

2) what the hell to destroy the weapon against the aliens?

3) why destroy one of the cities of his allies?

1. I don't believe an explicit motive has been given for the attack, but my gut feeling is that it was a terrorist-type attack like bombing St. Petersburg with a reaction weapon... just to show that they could strike anywhere. It could also be that they wanted to keep the 3,055 UN Forces personnel in the Mars fleet from becoming reinforcements in the war.

2. If they wanted to destroy the ship they probably would've just used reaction weaponry. Since they were trying to capture South Ataria Island, it can be assumed that their goal was to capture the ship and any war materiel on the island (and possibly take all of the civilians hostage). The 4th Defensive Battle that is depicted in Macross the First seems to have been an attempt to destroy the SDF-1 Macross and/or the entire island, but that was sort of retaliatory final strike for the dissolved Alliance.

3. Officially, it was to demonstrate that the Alliance had the potential for retaliatory strikes with reaction weaponry... but as for their choice of target, I suspect it was because the Russian government was aligned with the UN Government.

Eastern Europe - is Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East German, Hungarian People's Republic, Poland and Romania, but without Russia they simply will not have the financial and technical capabilities to develop such weapons ... Participation as Russia marks the beginning of full-scale "World War III"

And why West Germany and France, even Israel, to break off relations with the US UN?

By the way, and on which side has been China?

Not really a "World War III"... it doesn't look like Russia was publicly/openly supporting the Alliance, or even that all of Russia was a supporter of the Alliance. The UN Wars were a series of local/regional conflicts between the UN Government and various regional groups opposed to the UN Government. All told, the Alliance doesn't seem to have had enough power to credibly threaten the UN Government on a worldwide scale, just to harass and annoy its military in various hotspots of separatist sentiment.

France wasn't an Anti-Unification Alliance member, and Germany had been reunified a decade or so before the UN Wars started... but it's clear that certain factions and corporations in Germany supported the Alliance (like Dornier Flugzeugwerke). Israel, well, it's an incredibly independent state that is very proud of, and determined to defend, its sovereignty, so it's not altogether surprising that having to give up some of its independence in the name of a one world government (even one led by a staunch ally like the United States) wouldn't go over well.

We have no idea what the disposition of China was, but as they're not mentioned as a supporter of the Alliance they were probably UN Government backers.

It turns out that to leave the "Alliance" Russia forced her own allies by attacking St. Petersburg?

That's not said officially... but it's highly probable that having destroyed their own nation's second city would have prompted Russian soldiers in, and supporters of, the Alliance would cause them to withdraw their support.

[JB0]

My impression with the attack on the Mars base staff was that they believed them to be an attack force, and the quiet reconnaissance label they'd assigned to the base was just a cover story.

Which, to be fair, makes sense. The most likely target for reconnaissance was on Earth, and if you wanted to assemble a large strike force without intervention from the Anti-UN, you'd do it somewhere they couldn't reach... like Mars.

I'm not entirely sure what purpose the martian outpost was actually supposed to serve.