The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[azrael]

I asked this somewhere else a few years ago, but I've since forgotten. We use "VF" and "valkyrie" interchangeably. Is it the same in the Macross world, or do they use "Valkyrie" to refer to strictly the VF-1, and "VF" to refer to the broader group? Phoenix, Excalibur, Messiah, etc. aren't nearly as ubiquitous.

It can be used interchangeably.

Also unrelated: Is it YF-19 Excalibur, or YF-19 Alpha One, or just YF-19? (And YF-21 Sturmvogel (II?), or YF-21 Omega One, or YF-21?)

Just YF-19. Just YF-21. Alpha One and Omega One were their respective radio callsigns.

[JB0]

The term valkyrie in the Macross universe is much like the term "xerox machine" in the real world. While it originally referred to a specific thing, real-world usage applies it to anything that does a similar task to that specific thing.

[Sildani]

"Excalibur" and "Sturmvögel" were the names given after the fighters reached production status.

[RedWolf]

Was Macross Galaxy involved with Manfred Brando, Critical Path Corporation and Lactence?

I'm reading a google translation of the VF-X2 Japanese wikipedia site and it mentions:Munitions companies Galaxy, Inc., which is a black market multi interplanetary companies with close ties. In the Critical Path Corporation description.

It is also mentioned in the Macross Frontier wikipedia page it was Manfred Brando and company that saved Grace O'Connor with implants in the novel version.

[Seto Kaiba]

Was Macross Galaxy involved with Manfred Brando, Critical Path Corporation and Lactence?

I'm reading a google translation of the VF-X2 Japanese wikipedia site and it mentions:Munitions companies Galaxy, Inc., which is a black market multi interplanetary companies with close ties. In the Critical Path Corporation description.

It is also mentioned in the Macross Frontier wikipedia page it was Manfred Brando and company that saved Grace O'Connor with implants in the novel version.

In the novelization, IIRC they draw a connection between Manfred Brando and the 117th Research Fleet... though I don't recall the particulars. He was backing the fleet financially, I think.

[RedWolf]

In the novelization, IIRC they draw a connection between Manfred Brando and the 117th Research Fleet... though I don't recall the particulars. He was backing the fleet financially, I think.

Thanks anyway.

Anybody got an idea if the WonderSwan strategy game Macross True Love Song is considered canon in continuity or apocrypha?

Cause I am surprised that it is set in 2043 with a VF-19 and VF-22 but Emigration ship Odin IV is a SDF-2 type.

[JB0]

Easy answer: They launched with VF-4s and upgraded their fighters later?

No idea if it's canon or not.

[Mit]

I propose to talk about the very little-known race in the "Macross" universe - zolans.

What is known about their origins?

When and under what circumstances they have come into contact with humans?

Any features of their culture?

Details physiology - for example, why they have dual coloring of hair on your head? and why males such thick hair on his hands?

and much more...

[Seto Kaiba]

Anybody got an idea if the WonderSwan strategy game Macross True Love Song is considered canon in continuity or apocrypha?

Cause I am surprised that it is set in 2043 with a VF-19 and VF-22 but Emigration ship Odin IV is a SDF-2 type.

Odin IV.jpg

Well... insofar as Macross's ongoing continuity concerns itself with matters of canon ("barely at all"), the Macross: True Love Song game does not appear to be part of the official setting.

As far as their use of VF-19's and VF-22's... I'd assume that they just built new fighters to replace whatever they were launched with and/or subsequently upgraded to prior to the VF-19 and VF-22's adoption by the UN Forces. The Macross-7 fleet started to do this with the VF-19 and VF-22 in the second half of the show (which is how we get Emerald Force, and a host of reasons to want to see Gamlin give Docker a swirly).

I propose to talk about the very little-known race in the "Macross" universe - zolans.

Little known? They're not the focus of attention, but they're not exactly obscure... several Zolan or part-Zolan characters have been in titles after their introduction in Macross Dynamite 7. (Incl. Macross Frontier and Macross the Ride.) Examples include Michel and Jessica Blanc from Macross Frontier, and Anri Mahlberg from Macross the Ride.

What is known about their origins?

They're an intelligent, humanoid species from the planet Zola... one capable of interbreeding with Humans and Zentradi, which is a slam dunk sign that they're another species the Protoculture re-engineered in prehistory. Based on one unique physical trait which Zolans possess, it's suspected that they were originally something like a marsupial.

When and under what circumstances they have come into contact with humans?

The when of their discovery isn't clear (likely the 2020's or 2030's), but it seems they were discovered by an emigrant fleet... their planet was capable of supporting human life, but microorganisms originating in the galactic whales made it unsafe for the human colonists to settle there so there doesn't appear to be a permanent human presence on the planet.

Any features of their culture?

Zola's culture and level of technological development is said to be roughly equivalent to that of a developed country in the first half of the 20th Century (1900-1950), and what we see of their society in Dynamite 7 is largely agrarian. They have, however, obtained an assortment of advanced technologies like spacecraft and variable fighters from their human allies. They don't seem to possess any video media in daily life, but radio seems to be big there... particularly with cultural exports from human fleets like Macross-11, which apparently supplied Zolan adaptations of popular music and radio plays of classics like Romeo and Juliet (adapted as Zomeo and Zoliet). They seem to be pretty big on non-violence (or at least keeping necessary violence non-lethal) too.

Zolans living out in space with humanity seem to have little-to-no trouble blending into human society.

Details physiology - for example, why they have dual coloring of hair on your head? and why males such thick hair on his hands?

The only particular details of their physiology that have been discussed are that they have pouches like marsupials, and that they have a symbiotic relationship with an animal called a cat-snake, which is worn around the neck and which is intelligent enough to apparently read and translate for them (one is shown providing interpretation guidance of a dead version of the Zolan language), though we've seen some without the cat-snake.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

Thanks again Seiba Kaito.

Zolans were a surprise. A third race joining the Humans and cultured Zentradi without shooting each other?

Then comes Macross Delta that says after decades of making sure the Human race survives as a species they have been mingling with alien races. As in plural.

We have two new races out there, the Windermerians and Chuck's race. Who knows how many more are out there that Humans made contact with.

This is of course excluding Protodelvins, Vajra and Galactic Whales.

Thinking about it the stipulation in the Galaxy Treaty not to invade alien inhabited planets are making sense. So is making the government not Earth centric and the seat of power.

If these races chose to join the NUN for all the benefits and protection it gives in consideration Humans shouldn't be pushing Earth is in charge. Well Lactence didn't like that.

Humans may be out numbered as these races likely didn't get their populations decimated.

Edited January 22, 2016 by RedWolf

[Mit]

Little known? They're not the focus of attention, but they're not exactly obscure... several Zolan or part-Zolan characters have been in titles after their introduction in Macross Dynamite 7. (Incl. Macross Frontier and Macross the Ride.) Examples include Michel and Jessica Blanc from Macross Frontier, and Anri Mahlberg from Macross the Ride.

I beg your pardon, "little known" in comparison with the same "zentradi" ...

By the way, I am not familiar with the "Macross the Ride" - Japanese Kanji I don`t know and English translation has not found it - so get acquainted with the local characters of the race "zolans" there is no possible ...

About the same Michel and Jessica Blanc from "Macross Frontier" there is some problem in the identification, because they lack one of the distinct racial features "zolans" - multi-colored hair on the head, and the sources, again, are not available

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Thanks for the information about this exciting race

If you do not difficult, could you tell us more about the individual representatives of the people?

[Seto Kaiba]

This is of course excluding Protodelvins, Vajra and Galactic Whales.

The Protodeviln aren't really a race, technically... the bodies are designer bio-technological weapon prototypes, and the minds are energy beings from another universe.

The Vajra and Galactic Whales don't really count because the Vajra decided to go elsewhere and leave humanity to its own devices and the Galactic Whales don't appear to be sentient by any human meaning of the term. (The Dyaus from Macross 30 are probably in this category too.)

Thinking about it the stipulation in the Galaxy Treaty not to invade alien inhabited planets are making sense. So is making the government not Earth centric and the seat of power.

Well, the government may not be Earth-centric, but its de facto seat of power is still Earth IIRC.

Humans may be out numbered as these races likely didn't get their populations decimated.

Maybe, maybe not... Earth may have taken a beating in the First Space War, but it seems like humanity is the most technologically-advanced sub-Protoculture species in the setting. If the other newly-introduced species in Macross Delta were encountered while still pre-atomic, pre-spaceflight Machine Age cultures like the Zolans, humanity may be the most numerous species by dint of their status as a high-tech interstellar culture.

The population of Earth in the height of the Machine Age was around 2 billion... with the average emigrant fleet from 2030 on now having a population of upwards of a million people, and those being launched at a rate of one or two a year, there are likely more humans in the galaxy than any other one Protoculture-created species (except the Zentradi, who have a lock on the top spot with their probable population of several trillion). Cloning is cheating, but it's undeniably effective.

By the way, I am not familiar with the "Macross the Ride" - Japanese Kanji I don`t know and English translation has not found it - so get acquainted with the local characters of the race "zolans" there is no possible ...

About the same Michel and Jessica Blanc from "Macross Frontier" there is some problem in the identification, because they lack one of the distinct racial features "zolans" - multi-colored hair on the head, and the sources, again, are not available

If you do not difficult, could you tell us more about the individual representatives of the people?

Sure.

The Zolans haven't shown up in many titles because they were only introduced in Macross Dynamite 7 and there haven't been that many titles set after that thus far... so named Zolan characters are a bit thin on the ground.

As far as why Michel and Jessica Blanc didn't exhibit the distinctive differently-colored bangs (or forearm hair in Michel's case), the reason is that they're only part-Zolan. I don't recall if they identify the exact order, but they're either 1/2 or 1/4 Zolan by intermarriage between humans, Zolans, and Zentradi.

Macross R's Anri Mahlberg is a more typical Zolan. We don't see art of him without his suitcoat on, so he may or may not have the forearm fur, but he definitely has the different-colored bangs and big pointy ears. His description in the Visual Books notes that he's a former doctor (fully licensed) who quit his job at the university hospital in Frontier to become an investor. He lives in the Island-1 San Francisco area, is a sharp dresser, a bit of a bodybuilder, and earns some extra money on the side by providing off-the-books medical services to people in the entertainment industry or criminal underworld. He's also gay and sees himself as a sort of a "big sister" figure to the story's protagonist, Chelsea Scarlett. (Think Bobby Margot but not playing it for laughs as much.)

[tapoop]

I am hoping she would. The first few song doesn't sound like anything she would done anyway.

[azrael]

I am hoping she would. The first few song doesn't sound like anything she would done anyway.

Unfortunately, Yoko Kanno is not involved with the soundtrack for Delta. Music composers for Delta are Saeko Suzuki, TOMISIRO and Mina Kubota.

Macross Delta TV Series to Premiere in Spring With Lagrange, Kaleido Star Composers

That being said, Ms. Kanno could be involved at a later date if she has some free time. Unlikely, but always a possibility.

[David Hingtgen]

"Excalibur" and "Sturmvögel" were the names given after the fighters reached production status.

But that doesn't retroactively name the prototypes. YF-17 is the Cobra, not the Hornet. (true, the YF-21 and VF-22 differ much less than YF-17 vs F-18, but far less can cause a name change--see the F-5 family for good examples----or F-111 and A-6 families)

[kajnrig]

So I know Macross is famous for Itano circuses, but I've increasingly come to suspect that the directors/animators are all actually very specific about ammo count. Has anyone ever freeze-framed an Itano circus to see how many missiles are launches compared to how many the Valk can hold? And, for that matter, whether the animators track that ammo count throughout a single sortie?

[Andras]

I tried to count the YF-22s missile load in Plus. I got about 80 missiles evenly split between internal launchers and FAST packs.

[Gubaba]

So I know Macross is famous for Itano circuses, but I've increasingly come to suspect that the directors/animators are all actually very specific about ammo count.

I think you'd suspect wrong, especially if you're talking about the original series.

I believe Macross Chronicle has figures for those, though, and those are considered correct.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Gubaba

[Seto Kaiba]

So I know Macross is famous for Itano circuses, but I've increasingly come to suspect that the directors/animators are all actually very specific about ammo count. Has anyone ever freeze-framed an Itano circus to see how many missiles are launches compared to how many the Valk can hold? And, for that matter, whether the animators track that ammo count throughout a single sortie?

I've examined a few scenes for this kind of thing and I've found they're inaccurate as often as they're accurate when it comes to matching missile counts to what's given in the print stats. They seem to err on the side of what's dramatic rather than what's mercilessly accurate... but then, on a few occasions Kawamori has said things about the shows being dramatizations of the wars rather than strictly literal depictions of them, and we know how much the film industry loves to give guns more ammo than they realistically hold. Rambo wouldn't have been nearly as impressive visually if the protagonist's machinegun had run out of bullets inside of ten seconds.

The instances of (apparent) inaccuracy have gone down as time has gone on... I suspect in large part because the Valkyries have gotten larger and are carrying progressively more missiles. A VF-1 Super Valkyrie from the series could fire two-dozen micro-missiles and then it's done... a YF-29 or YF-30 could fire that and still have 3/4 of its capacity left.

[Andras]

. I suspect in large part because the Valkyries have gotten larger and are carrying progressively more missiles. A VF-1 Super Valkyrie from the series could fire two-dozen micro-missiles and then it's done... a YF-29 or YF-30 could fire that and still have 3/4 of its capacity left.

Well, in the series, the VF-1 Super had a dozen micros in each armpod (it fires 6 pairs from each arm) and a further (minimum) 16 in each booster pod. So more like 5 dozen.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, in the series, the VF-1 Super had a dozen micros in each armpod (it fires 6 pairs from each arm) and a further (minimum) 16 in each booster pod. So more like 5 dozen.

That's a perfect illustration of the point... according to the written spec, the VF-1 Super Valkyrie is only supposed to have 30 micro-missiles of various types (12 in each HMMP-02 missile pod, 3 in each NP-AR-01 pack)¹.

1. Or, in a few model kit-connected cases, 46... with twenty in each HMMP-02 missile pod and three in each NP-AR-01 pack.

[RedWolf]

Macross R's Anri Mahlberg is a more typical Zolan. We don't see art of him without his suitcoat on, so he may or may not have the forearm fur, but he definitely has the different-colored bangs and big pointy ears. His description in the Visual Books notes that he's a former doctor (fully licensed) who quit his job at the university hospital in Frontier to become an investor. He lives in the Island-1 San Francisco area, is a sharp dresser, a bit of a bodybuilder, and earns some extra money on the side by providing off-the-books medical services to people in the entertainment industry or criminal underworld. He's also gay and sees himself as a sort of a "big sister" figure to the story's protagonist, Chelsea Scarlett. (Think Bobby Margot but not playing it for laughs as much.)

The whole underground doctor thing reminded me of Shinra in Durarara! .

For a moment I thought the boy in the crowd Freyja was going through was a Zolan due to this blue and black tone hair but he did not have the signature ears.

Another interesting background character is the girl with the fin ears that may be a female of Chuck's species.

Edited January 24, 2016 by RedWolf

[Andras]

That's a perfect illustration of the point... according to the written spec, the VF-1 Super Valkyrie is only supposed to have 30 micro-missiles of various types (12 in each HMMP-02 missile pod, 3 in each NP-AR-01 pack)¹.

1. Or, in a few model kit-connected cases, 46... with twenty in each HMMP-02 missile pod and three in each NP-AR-01 pack.

But there are two different kinds of arm pods. The slant front pod in SFDM with staggered small missiles, and the DYRL pod with exposed missiles that are larger and even with each other at the front.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Andras

[Seto Kaiba]

But there are two different kinds of arm pods. The slant front pod in SFDM with staggered small missiles, and the DYRL pod with exposed missiles that are larger and even with each other at the front.

Yes and no.

The only source I know of offhand that treats the difference in the NP-AR-01 forearm pack as an actual in-universe design variation rather than a design being polished by the mechanical designer for the movie version is Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2. The official stats treat the DYRL version as identical in all respects to the TV version, but Master File has DYRL's version down as being a later variant of the arm pack (NP-AR-01C, to Macross TV's NP-AR-01B).

The unhelpful "but..." that you probably saw coming is that the book is not official setting material, and its explanation of the NP-AR-01C's increased size is not an increase in armament. What it attributes the increase in the pack's size to is the pack's internal fuel tanks being expanded to hold 170 more liters of fuel per pack (for a net gain of 340L, or 6.77% of the FAST Pack's total fuel capacity).

Edited January 24, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Mit]

Sure.

The Zolans haven't shown up in many titles because they were only introduced in Macross Dynamite 7 and there haven't been that many titles set after that thus far... so named Zolan characters are a bit thin on the ground.

And still "little known"... But thanks for the info

[Zinjo]

Maybe, maybe not... Earth may have taken a beating in the First Space War, but it seems like humanity is the most technologically-advanced sub-Protoculture species in the setting. If the other newly-introduced species in Macross Delta were encountered while still pre-atomic, pre-spaceflight Machine Age cultures like the Zolans, humanity may be the most numerous species by dint of their status as a high-tech interstellar culture.

The population of Earth in the height of the Machine Age was around 2 billion... with the average emigrant fleet from 2030 on now having a population of upwards of a million people, and those being launched at a rate of one or two a year, there are likely more humans in the galaxy than any other one Protoculture-created species (except the Zentradi, who have a lock on the top spot with their probable population of several trillion). Cloning is cheating, but it's undeniably effective.

The operative word is "So Far..." When Delta begins to air, we'll get a better idea at what level the Windarians are at compared to humanity.

As for Earth's relation to government, it appears much like how New York is the seat of the current United Nations, just a capitol center. However, the NUNG has Federal Armed Forces, unlike our current UN. Though it is very unlikely the Federal forces would outnumber the combined fleets of all the member states.

I like to believe the NUNS has become a Federation of autonomous member states (planets / fleets) unlike how it was during the first 50 years of it's existence. During M7, none of the emigrations fleets had a civilian president who had authority to launch nukes. By 2059, MF's President Glass had such authority, but as all good leaders was reluctant to use it.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

I'm wondering has there been line art or illustration of Supervision Army ships shown in SDF Macross episode 31 other than the gunship?

[Mr March]

Not that I've ever seen in any of my Macross art books. The closest thing would be line art for the pre-crash SDF-1 Macross (TV version) and the Supervision Army Derelict, but they are both different from what is shown in episode 31.

[Zinjo]

If the Varuata are any indicator, I'd suspect the SA ships would be either re-branded PD and Zentradi cruisers or modified PD & Zentradi cruisers. We have never seen a PD capital ship so we have no idea what they look like.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

If the Varuata are any indicator, I'd suspect the SA ships would be either re-branded PD and Zentradi cruisers or modified PD & Zentradi cruisers. We have never seen a PD capital ship so we have no idea what they look like.

... the Protodeviln didn't do ships, there were only seven of them and they don't need ships to survive in space or travel by fold.

The Supervision Army was the Protodeviln's military force, but their aesthetic doesn't seem to correspond to the Zentradi ships we've seen.

[Zinjo]

... the Protodeviln didn't do ships, there were only seven of them and they don't need ships to survive in space or travel by fold.

The Supervision Army was the Protodeviln's military force, but their aesthetic doesn't seem to correspond to the Zentradi ships we've seen.

Though, I am not sure how or why an "energy being" would "build" their own proprietary ships as one would expect them not to require these devices and thus one has to question how they would know how to build such craft. One of the many puzzles of M7, I suppose.

The ships seen in M7 were not SA ships, they appear to have been modified versions of ships from the Megaroad 13 fleet. This would follow with the apparently modified fighter craft.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

I wouldn't call the Varauta Army ships modified as they do not look like the Northampton class ships that were with the Varauta Research Fleet.

The Varauta Army had some 500 ships compared to the 194 ships Macross 7 had. Where as the Elgerzorene was based on the Varauta version of the VF-14.

[Zinjo]

I wouldn't call the Varauta Army ships modified as they do not look like the Northampton class ships that were with the Varauta Research Fleet.

The Varauta Army had some 500 ships compared to the 194 ships Macross 7 had. Where as the Elgerzorene was based on the Varauta version of the VF-14.

If I recall, the Varuata's fleet were created (not sure how) from the Megaroad 13 fleet. The composition of that fleet was not really known as per official media. The Megaroad 13 fleet was not necessarily a human fleet either, and the "V" ships could very well have been built upon Zentradi superstructures. There is no reason to conclude that the ships of the Varuata's fleet are original ships from the SA fleet as we have come to understand that the SA fleet had long since dispersed since the time of the PD war. Debates on this board also argued that any "recall" of such forces could have brought the attention of Zentradi fleets still hunting SA remnants, if such fleet were still under the PD mind control. It is not currently known if all the ships in the PD fleet in M7 were originally sourced from the Megaroad fleet or if more ships were comandeered from other task forces in the area such as the Varuata Research Fleet. This has not been fully explained,as far as I am aware.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Zinjo

[mickyg]

Is there a timeline of all the major events in Macross? I'm finding it a bit difficult to remember/keep track of all the themes introduced. For example, I keep hearing that the SA where somehow related to the PD but all this time I thought they (the SA) were the PC! Eeek!

[VF-15 Banshee]

Is there a timeline of all the major events in Macross? I'm finding it a bit difficult to remember/keep track of all the themes introduced. For example, I keep hearing that the SA where somehow related to the PD but all this time I thought they (the SA) were the PC! Eeek!

It's on the Macross Compendium, I believe