The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Talos]

(In the end, it's frustrating - as our own personal views of Macross include all these things, but when someone asks a question, we have to give the official setting answer. >.< Just like these chest guns. I'm inclined to believe that they are duplicate REB-23 laser guns, but I can't state authoritatively that they are.)

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. There are plenty of things in the Master File book that I keep wanting to reference, like the modularity of the VT-1/VE-1, and the new-style VF-1X from Space Wings over the older VF-X one that looks like any old VF-1J and has completely different stats and background. It's frustrating!

I'm totally in agreement over the chest guns being REB-23s as well. I thought they couldn't be at first, since they're so much thicker, but then I figured it is probably just a shroud around the guns, since they're basically mounted externally.

Agreed. I'm of the mind that if "the" creator had a role in the production of the book, it should be part of the official setting. Though, the writers/editors may just be covering themselves if something in the book is totally inconsistent with the established official setting.

I doubt Kawamori had any real involvement with the book besides, at most, rubber-stamping it. If we start seeing more references to it popping up in future works (like the VF-19A+, VF-19C, and VF-19E in Macross the Ride), then it might warrant another look...

[azrael]

I doubt Kawamori had any real involvement with the book besides, at most, rubber-stamping it. If we start seeing more references to it popping up in future works (like the VF-19A+, VF-19C, and VF-19E in Macross the Ride), then it might warrant another look...

Only the VF-19A (and kinda/sorta the VF-19E) has showed up. Not sure where this VF-19A+, VF-19C came from.

[Talos]

Only the VF-19A (and kinda/sorta the VF-19E) has showed up. Not sure where this VF-19A+, VF-19C came from.

Hmm, I might be thinking of a 2002 Model Graphix article, but I could have sworn I saw mention of them in the Macross the Ride information too.

[Renato]

Agreed. I'm of the mind that if "the" creator had a role in the production of the book, it should be part of the official setting. Though, the writers/editors may just be covering themselves if something in the book is totally inconsistent with the established official setting.

Hmm. The irony of that is, that the Sky Angels book, despite it being a doujinshi, was in fact compiled at least in part by Masahiro Chiba (often credited as "Dr Chiba" and the inspiration for the Macross 7 character of the same name), who is the guy in charge of all of the mechanical settings in the Macross universe, as well as a long-time friend of Kawamori. As I say I don't have the Master File book, but I think I read somewhere that he was involved in that, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's quite close to "creator approval", I'd say. Of course, the indisputable fact still stands that none of the books are canonical. I think it's only natural for everything to be inconsistent, though, since the visuals are inconsistent to begin with, through no fault of anybody.

[sketchley]

Hmm. The irony of that is, that the Sky Angels book, despite it being a doujinshi, was in fact compiled at least in part by Masahiro Chiba (often credited as "Dr Chiba" and the inspiration for the Macross 7 character of the same name), who is the guy in charge of all of the mechanical settings in the Macross universe, as well as a long-time friend of Kawamori. As I say I don't have the Master File book, but I think I read somewhere that he was involved in that, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

He's credited as an adviser in all three books, and has a writing credit in the VF-19 book (p014-029).

[Seto Kaiba]

I doubt Kawamori had any real involvement with the book besides, at most, rubber-stamping it. If we start seeing more references to it popping up in future works (like the VF-19A+, VF-19C, and VF-19E in Macross the Ride), then it might warrant another look...

Yeah, but that's assuming that there's actually a tangible link between the future works and Master File. The mentions of the VF-19C and VF-19E in Macross the Ride could be drawing on Master File, or they could just as easily be something with different specs and a different history but the same variant letter. There's just not enough information for us to tell (yet).

Only the VF-19A (and kinda/sorta the VF-19E) has showed up. Not sure where this VF-19A+, VF-19C came from.

Originally? A feature in several issues of Model Graphix magazine between 2002 and 2003 called "Advanced Valkyrie in Action", which featured completed and customized Macross model kits. In the articles, several of the completed YF-19 model kits were labeled "VF-19C", while others were labeled "VF-19A" and one of the custom ones was labeled "VF-19ES" and described as a customized VF-19 designed to set the fold speed record. Also noteworthy or at least interesting is a delta-wing VF-22 that gets designated as a bomber. It's non-canon, but it's also the earliest mention of a "VF-19C" or "VF-19E" that I've run across.

If you're interested, there's a gallery on MAHQ for Advanced Valkyrie in Action, and there's also some scans to be had from those articles in the "Magazines" section of the main site here.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's quite close to "creator approval", I'd say. Of course, the indisputable fact still stands that none of the books are canonical. I think it's only natural for everything to be inconsistent, though, since the visuals are inconsistent to begin with, through no fault of anybody.

Eh... just because someone involved with Macross's production contributed doesn't really make it "Creator approved" either. The "Sky Angels" thing was done unofficially, IIRC. Of course, the Master File series wasn't the first time Kawamori-sensei had made contributions to a Macross publication and then said that the whole lot wasn't part of the official Macross setting either. He did the same thing back in '02, where he did a column called VF-Experiment in Character Model magazine, and trotted out two all-new VF designs, gave them in-universe backstories, and then ruled them out of the official Macross setting anyway.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

Originally?...

I was referring to Talos' comment that the VF-19A+ and VF-19C showed up in Ride. Unless they've show up by mention in the chapter text than in the profiles, I'm not sure where he got that idea that they've shown up in Ride.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was referring to Talos' comment that the VF-19A+ and VF-19C showed up in Ride. Unless they've show up by mention in the chapter text than in the profiles, I'm not sure where he got that idea that they've shown up in Ride.

Ah, my mistake. Now, Talos didn't say that those variants had put in an appearance in the actual narrative of Macross the Ride, just that they'd been mentioned/referenced in the material about it. Not sure how the VF-19A+ got in there, but the description of Shinsei team's customized VF-19A Excalibur (flown by Oscar Brauhitsch) does mention that its upgrades were influenced by data from both the -P and -C types.

The point that Talos seems to have been trying to make in response to sketchley is that the only way the material in Master File will become part of the official setting is if Kawamori-sensei references it in future works that are part of the official Macross setting. He seems to have been using those variants as an example, even though there's no indication thus far that the VF-19C and VF-19E mentioned in connection with Macross the Ride are the same VF-19C and VF-19E described in Master File.

[dna]

I haven't been here since the last ep of Frontier was downloaded. What am I missing?

[Gubaba]

I haven't been here since the last ep of Frontier was downloaded. What am I missing?

Two Frontier movies (the second still on its theatrical run, so don't ask about when the DVD/BD will be available), Macross Chronicle and Macross Ace Magazines, a bunch of new comics, novels, and CDs (some music, some drama), and some events.

[nanoplasm]

Found this picture on the net, was wondering if anyone know where it came from?

That's going to be my new favorite Hal's rendition of Minmay.

[Gubaba]

Found this picture on the net, was wondering if anyone know where it came from?

That's going to be my new favorite Hal's rendition of Minmay.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure it's from Newtype.

[dna]

Two Frontier movies (the second still on its theatrical run, so don't ask about when the DVD/BD will be available), Macross Chronicle and Macross Ace Magazines, a bunch of new comics, novels, and CDs (some music, some drama), and some events.

Roger that.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

In the last episode of Frontier when Cannaria (sp?) is shooting at the Battle Galaxy, she shoots out their radar and presumably targeting ability correct?

[azrael]

In the last episode of Frontier when Cannaria (sp?) is shooting at the Battle Galaxy, she shoots out their radar and presumably targeting ability correct?

If the main radar is on the bridge "head", then yes.

[frothymug]

Even if she didn't cause serious structural damage, she basically blinded the bridge long enough for the Quarter to come in and take care of business. I always rewind the part where Battle Frontier comes in saws Battle Galaxy in half with a PPB punch. Good stuff!

[gamlin]

Where and when was the prototype VF-X-2 mentioned for the first time?

[Seto Kaiba]

Where and when was the prototype VF-X-2 mentioned for the first time?

That is a tough question... I've checked the earliest Macross publications in my collection, the three This is Animation books from the series (1983) and Macross Perfect Memory (1984), and I've come up dry. The chronology over on the Macross Compendium lists its development as starting in 2003, but timeline printed in Macross Perfect Memory doesn't include it in the 2003 entry. The VF-X-2 isn't listed in the "VF-History" article in June 1992's B-Club Magazine Vol.79 either, but that may or may not be a result of the article having the DYRLverse development history of the VF-1 in it instead.

Sadly, I don't have a specific answer for you... but hopefully that'll narrow the field a bit for someone with a less-specialized collection than mine.

[gamlin]

Thank you for your answer.

What about the VF-X book (the first PS1 game)?

Another question:

(from compendium about VF-1): "Engines generate 17,680 PS during ground combat". What want to says PS?

Edited May 13, 2011 by gamlin

[sketchley]

Where and when was the prototype VF-X-2 mentioned for the first time?

This Is Animation Special: Macross Plus (1995)

Pg 66 (VF-4 Lightning III development background)

That's the earliest I've found with a quick look. Might be an earlier source (not the Flashback 2012 book. Little to no info on the VF-4 in that one, let alone the VF-4's development history!)

[sketchley]

(from compendium about VF-1): "Engines generate 17,680 PS during ground combat". What want to says PS?

Another way to measure horsepower?

The Pferdestärke PS (German translation of horsepower) is a name for a group of similar power measurements used in Germany around the end of the 19th century, all of about one metric horsepower in size.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

[gamlin]

Thank you a lot Sketchley.

Same question about VF-1B. Where and when?

[Zoroastres]

Hello. I'm (obviously) new here: I searched the forums for "Tornado" but didn't find anything, but if there's already a thread somewhere I apologize for making this one. Basically, I'm curious about, well, everything about the Tornado parts for the VF-25 from the new movie. What can you guys tell me about it?

I recently got a Macross Fighter Display Collection 4, and got a Tornado-Messiah (which is rare?) and the design is really quite... odd. It really dramatically changes the whole aesthetic of the valk, and other than the two massive beam cannons, I can't quite tell what the point of everything is. The big wings are probably aesthetic, and the 4 pods at the tips are probably missile launchers... but what about the giant tale? Or the four long under-and-over-wing pods? Fold boosters? It's all very intriquing to me. I'd be grateful for anything you guys can tell me about it.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hello. I'm (obviously) new here: I searched the forums for "Tornado" but didn't find anything, but if there's already a thread somewhere I apologize for making this one. Basically, I'm curious about, well, everything about the Tornado parts for the VF-25 from the new movie. What can you guys tell me about it?

Well, there's an impending Newbie Question thread merge coming, so I'll be brief... there's not a lot of information about the VF-25's Tornado packs. You can find what little information exists in the Macross Compendium wiki's VF-25 Messiah article. There's likely a bit more information in Great Mechanics.DX 11, but I don't happen to have a copy of that one.

The big wings are probably aesthetic, and the 4 pods at the tips are probably missile launchers... but what about the giant tale? Or the four long under-and-over-wing pods? Fold boosters? It's all very intriquing to me. I'd be grateful for anything you guys can tell me about it.

Aesthetic, not so much... the Tornado packs are an all-regime set of FAST packs, designed for use in atmosphere and space, so those big wings are for functional purposes. The large pods on the wingtips are actually engines, on rotary mounts that allow the engines to turn for maneuvering and braking purposes. The "giant tail" you refer to (the large rod coming off the back of the plane) would be the beam turret's FED-115R power capacitor and refrigeration unit (its cooling system). The large pods mounted under the wings would be micro-missile pods added for space use. Not quite sure what you mean by "four long under-and-over-wing pods" though...

EDIT: On consideration, I'm betting you mean the sections that fit over the VF-25's wing gloves, which are where the Tornado pack connects to the VF-25's wing, and also contains verniers and presumably fuel tanks for same.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[Zoroastres]

Hm... thanks.

I'm a bit confused as to how the Tornado pack is supposed to have "lower air resistance than Super Packs." It's got more than twice the surface area and mass of a VF-25 equipped w/ Super Pack and the turret alone, each time it moves off "center" would generate a whole, whole lot of air resistance. Oh well.

And since this is a newbie and short-question thread, I think I'll ask a couple more basic questions.

1. Any news on when the second movie will get a release? (BD/DVD)? Last I heard, people were expecting it to be released this Autumn, but I haven't seen it listed on Amazon yet.

2. Has anyone here bought any of the new 1/100 fighter kits? I was pretty disappointed with the transformable MG kits, but the fighters look good. And CHEAP too, which is very, very nice for Macross stuff. I'd kind of like to see some user-pictures, since publicity images are always so... immaculate.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm a bit confused as to how the Tornado pack is supposed to have "lower air resistance than Super Packs." It's got more than twice the surface area and mass of a VF-25 equipped w/ Super Pack and the turret alone, each time it moves off "center" would generate a whole, whole lot of air resistance. Oh well.

Well... for starters, the Tornado Pack is a lot more streamlined than the Super or Armored packs and a good part of it is usable wing surface. The more traditional Super pack is a huge rocket booster with a missile launcher on the end which attaches directly to the VF-25's wings. I'm not sure about its mass, since I haven't been able to turn up a source that actually lists the mass of the Tornado packs, but I would be hesitant to trust the numbers printed on the display stands for the 1/250 Macross Fighter Collection. They do occasionally contain errors... IIRC, the 1/250 VF-2SS Valkyrie II's display base listed the fighter as being larger and heavier than its official stats indicate.

To a certain extent, I would guess that you're getting a less-than-accurate picture of the Tornado packs since the one in the Macross Fighter Collection #4 is kitted out for space use. The version equipped for atmosphere is a bit more streamlined since it lacks the large underwing missile pods and the pods on the front of the rotary engine mounts. This is what it looks like when equipped for atmospheric use.

1. Any news on when the second movie will get a release? (BD/DVD)? Last I heard, people were expecting it to be released this Autumn, but I haven't seen it listed on Amazon yet.

None that I'm aware of... but if they stick to the pattern, it'll come out about a year after the movie hit theaters. Since movie two made its debut in February, I would expect to see it in either December 2011 or January 2012.

[Zoroastres]

Ah, I see. That makes more sense now.

Regarding the movie... that's an awful long time. Was anyone here able to see it in theaters? I'm looking forward to being able to watch it myself.

[Seto Kaiba]

Regarding the movie... that's an awful long time. Was anyone here able to see it in theaters? I'm looking forward to being able to watch it myself.

Yeah, it is on the long side... roughly six months seems to be the average turnaround time for going from theatrical release to home video. I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but there was some speculation that the 11 month turnaround time for Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime was because of the "Hybrid Pack" that also included the Playstation 3 game Macross Trial Frontier. If that's the case, then Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa might come out on BD/DVD sooner rather than later if it's not also packaged with a video game.

There were some folks here who were able to catch the movie in theaters, the thread for which is kicking around somewhere in this part of the forums.

[azrael]

1. Any news on when the second movie will get a release? (BD/DVD)? Last I heard, people were expecting it to be released this Autumn, but I haven't seen it listed on Amazon yet.

It also best to keep in mind that the 1st Frontier movie saw a limited and slow spread across Japan. IIRC, the 2nd Frontier movie is being spread out the same way.

2. Has anyone here bought any of the new 1/100 fighter kits?

Have you checked the Toys section?

[gamlin]

UP.

Did you see evidence of the existence of VF-1B Valkyrie? I do not find anything and I start to think that there does not exist.

[Seto Kaiba]

Did you see evidence of the existence of VF-1B Valkyrie? I do not find anything and I start to think that there does not exist.

Eh... the VF-1B wouldn't have been included in the pre-Wiki Macross Compendium's coverage of the VF-1 Valkyrie if there wasn't at least some mention of it in official sources. Like the VF-X-2, the VF-1B seems to be a part of the Valkyrie's development history that came along later on... it's not listed in the books that came out around the same time as the series (the 3 This is Animation: Super Dimension Fortress Macross volumes and Macross Perfect Memory), nor is it listed or mentioned in the DYRLverse development history from B-Club Magazine Vol.79.

Since I don't own a copy of This is Animation Special: Macross Plus, I asked my friend Talos to dig his copy out and check, and he found mention of a "B-type" in the VF-1 Valkyrie section on page 56. Also worth noting, even though the book it comes from isn't a canon resource, the second volume of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie ("Wings of Space") also mentions the VF-1B in a roundabout fashion via a mockup of a flight manual cover for the Block 4 VF-1 on pages 51 and 52. There's virtually no info on the VF-1B aside from its basic description, so I wouldn't expect to find it mentioned in many sources.

[gamlin]

The compendium always does not quote its sources and there are sometimes errors.

Your answer is interesting, the VF-1B exists afterwards. Thank you.

[sketchley]

... This is Animation Special: Macross Plus, I asked my friend Talos to dig his copy out and check, and he found mention of a "B-type" in the VF-1 Valkyrie section on page 56. ...

Confirmed. In the S model subsection, near the end.

[Seto Kaiba]

Confirmed. In the S model subsection, near the end.

Ah, thank you.

(At some point I really should knuckle down and buy a copy of This is Animation: Macross Plus, for completeness's sake)

[gamlin]

The Compendium says about the VF-1: “twelve MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs (three one each hardware not)”. Which source speaks about these bombs? No mention in Perfect Memory, DYRL TIA or Macross Chronicle. Maybe the same Macross Plus TIA Special?