The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Renato]

I am astonished that on a show like M7 the director had the sense to make space near the core blue. Must have been the same team responsible for all the good stuff in between the J-Pop storyline....

Is this another instance of the "The stuff I like must have been made by people other than those who made the stuff I don't like" argument? It's all Macross.

[Seto Kaiba]

Wait, I thought the internal guns on the valks were just high powered laser or particle accelerator type weapons...

Well, yes... most of them are.

The YF-19 and VF-22¹ are the first Valkyries mentioned with the option of having converging energy cannons as their fixed-forward internal guns and/or coaxial guns mounted on the monitor turret.

1. Specifically, the YF-19 prototype and VF-22 production model. The VF-19 production model and YF-21 protoype are not mentioned with this option.

[Gubaba]

Is this another instance of the "The stuff I like must have been made by people other than those who made the stuff I don't like" argument? It's all Macross.

I think about one-third of Zinjo's comments are great. The others don't really live up to that standard. Clearly, the B-team was given those to express.

[Renato]

I think about one-third of Zinjo's comments are great. The others don't really live up to that standard. Clearly, the B-team was given those to express.

Ah, so he's got Quadrophenia! "♪ Can you see the reeeeaaal meee, Doctor? DOCTOR?? ♪"

[Scream Man]

So over in the toy thread for the 19Adv, someone posted a bit of the story of how Isamu joined SMS. I was wondering if anything was said about him and Myung? Did they stay together?

[Seto Kaiba]

So over in the toy thread for the 19Adv, someone posted a bit of the story of how Isamu joined SMS. I was wondering if anything was said about him and Myung? Did they stay together?

I've translated some of those parts myself, though I don't recall anything being said about Myung's post-Plus status in there...

[Valkyrie Driver]

Well, yes... most of them are.

The YF-19 and VF-22¹ are the first Valkyries mentioned with the option of having converging energy cannons as their fixed-forward internal guns and/or coaxial guns mounted on the monitor turret.

1. Specifically, the YF-19 prototype and VF-22 production model. The VF-19 production model and YF-21 protoype are not mentioned with this option.

So how does this translate into rate of fire, power consumption, and damage output compared to laser or particle accelerator weapons?

[Seto Kaiba]

So how does this translate into rate of fire, power consumption, and damage output compared to laser or particle accelerator weapons?

That's an excellent question... one I don't really have a complete answer for.

If the usual pattern holds, the one thing we should be able to say with reasonable certainty is that a converging energy cannon is going to do a punch quite a bit harder than a laser or particle beam weapon of similar scale. The trade-off for the additional stopping power would presumably be a diminished rate of fire and increased power requirements. (Possibly also some increased cooling requirements affecting rate of fire, since the gun is shooting a beam of extradimensional fusion plasma.)

[Valkyrie Driver]

That's an excellent question... one I don't really have a complete answer for.

If the usual pattern holds, the one thing we should be able to say with reasonable certainty is that a converging energy cannon is going to do a punch quite a bit harder than a laser or particle beam weapon of similar scale. The trade-off for the additional stopping power would presumably be a diminished rate of fire and increased power requirements. (Possibly also some increased cooling requirements affecting rate of fire, since the gun is shooting a beam of extradimensional fusion plasma.)

So we're talking a rate of fire like an L40 bofors compared to say a GAU-22/A?

[Seto Kaiba]

So we're talking a rate of fire like an L40 bofors compared to say a GAU-22/A?

Based on the Macross Plus animation, I would guess that the rate of fire difference is probably more severe than that...

[Valkyrie Driver]

Based on the Macross Plus animation, I would guess that the rate of fire difference is probably more severe than that...

Worse than 120 rounds per minute? You can pull a trigger faster than that. 2 shots a second seems really slow to me, even for a high damage output weapon like that.

[Seto Kaiba]

Worse than 120 rounds per minute? You can pull a trigger faster than that. 2 shots a second seems really slow to me, even for a high damage output weapon like that.

It's hard to say for certain, since the weapon isn't discussed in deep detail in any source... the way Isamu uses it, it seems to have a very low rate-of-fire, maybe 60 discharges per minute, but that's pure guesswork on my part. As powerful as converging beam cannons are, one hit is probably all you need for most targets.

On the other hand, the one laser weapon to have a stated rate-of-fire of 6,000 discharges per minute.

[Valkyrie Driver]

It's hard to say for certain, since the weapon isn't discussed in deep detail in any source... the way Isamu uses it, it seems to have a very low rate-of-fire, maybe 60 discharges per minute, but that's pure guesswork on my part. As powerful as converging beam cannons are, one hit is probably all you need for most targets.

On the other hand, the one laser weapon to have a stated rate-of-fire of 6,000 discharges per minute.

Ah ok. I think it might safe to assume it's a weapon of similar use to the L/60 bofors and it's usually never run through it's magazine in one go as an aerial gun system. The two guns on the 19 might be linked in a staggered fire pattern, since I think we only ever see the one side fire.

It looks like in plus when Isamu uses the weapon he's strafing a target, which means he's trying to hit more than one target.

[Seto Kaiba]

Ah ok. I think it might safe to assume it's a weapon of similar use to the L/60 bofors and it's usually never run through it's magazine in one go as an aerial gun system. The two guns on the 19 might be linked in a staggered fire pattern, since I think we only ever see the one side fire.

It looks like in plus when Isamu uses the weapon he's strafing a target, which means he's trying to hit more than one target.

The first time we see the YF-19 firing from the wing glove gun ports, the guns are twin-linked, firing bright red beams at about 120-180rpm... but we see Guld's YF-21 doing the exact same thing, which makes it likely that, for that test, the guns mounted there were the laser machine gun option. The YF-21 prototype's armaments never included the converging energy cannon option.

[Valkyrie Driver]

The first time we see the YF-19 firing from the wing glove gun ports, the guns are twin-linked, firing bright red beams at about 120-180rpm... but we see Guld's YF-21 doing the exact same thing, which makes it likely that, for that test, the guns mounted there were the laser machine gun option. The YF-21 prototype's armaments never included the converging energy cannon option.

Well that's just damn maddeningly inconsistent...

[Seto Kaiba]

Well that's just damn maddeningly inconsistent...

Yep... that's the problem with the later VF's that had modular internal armaments. You can have the same VF, with no visible changes outside, carrying two totally different weapons and you wouldn't know it until it starts shooting.

This same issue also exists on the production model VF-22, the VF-171, and VF-25.

[JB0]

Yep... that's the problem with the later VF's that had modular internal armaments. You can have the same VF, with no visible changes outside, carrying two totally different weapons and you wouldn't know it until it starts shooting.

The ultimate answer to all future animation errors?

[Seto Kaiba]

The ultimate answer to all future animation errors?

Or a way to justify "new abilities as the plot demands".

[Dio]

As a parallel question on the topic, what percentage of their ammunition did Isamu & Guld likely use up prior to the Ghost fighter showing up? Not sure I remember many missiles being shot at it.

[Zinjo]

Is this another instance of the "The stuff I like must have been made by people other than those who made the stuff I don't like" argument? It's all Macross.

It may be Macross, but it ain't all smart. Kinda like Star Wars....

[JB0]

As a parallel question on the topic, what percentage of their ammunition did Isamu & Guld likely use up prior to the Ghost fighter showing up? Not sure I remember many missiles being shot at it.

"I bought you lunch 17 times!"

Guld fired a few.

[Seto Kaiba]

As a parallel question on the topic, what percentage of their ammunition did Isamu & Guld likely use up prior to the Ghost fighter showing up? Not sure I remember many missiles being shot at it.

I couldn't say for sure without knowing exactly how both aircraft were loaded, but there's no doubt they'd used most of what they were carrying before the Ghost attacked.

Isamu, in particular, was probably almost down to foul language before the fight ended... he'd expended 2 of his 3 GU-15 magazines, and lost the gun pod with the (fresh) third magazine in it and his rear-facing laser in a single attack. He'd shot off at least half of his micro-missiles and two CHM-2's, before he ended up losing the leg FAST packs. At most, he was down to the wing-glove laser guns and maybe two more CHM-2's.

Guld, it's harder to say, but he definitely shot off most of his internal micro-missile count and probably most of his gun pod ammo when he engaged the Ghost, but that still left him with the bidirectional and rear-facing laser guns, some missiles, and the gun pods before he sacrificed the limbs.

[VF5SS]

It may be Macross, but it ain't all smart. Kinda like Star Wars....

The series really went downhill once they made the spaceship turn into a robot.

[Valkyrie Driver]

The series really went downhill once they made the spaceship turn into a robot.

Ahahahaha, if by downhill you mean snowballed into an avalanche of awesomeness, then yes.

[VF-0RC]

Ahahahaha, if by downhill you mean snowballed into an avalanche of awesomeness, then yes.

Capital shipd turning into giant robots is not only cool, but kind of one of the things that make Macross Macross. I bet they didn't like seeing the Macross Quarter surfing either.

[Gubaba]

You all understand that VF5SS was being ironic, right?

[VF-0RC]

Now do.

[JB0]

Sarcasm is just one more free service we offer.

[VF5SS]

You know I take everything seriously.

[Valkyrie Driver]

You all understand that VF5SS was being ironic, right?

Yes I was aware he was doing something. Are you aware that I was kinda just being that dick that explains everything...

My attempt at humor was poorly executed.

[Primus1X]

What ships are surrounding Vrlitwhai Kridanik's Nupetiet-Vergnitzs V VI III I ? Are they all Thuverl-Salan-Class or are some of them Picket Ships?

Edited August 26, 2015 by Primus1X

[Mr March]

Most of them appear to be Picket Class ships, and a few Thurvel Salans. Some appear to be those classes, yet have extra/slightly different features, probably just the typical artistic flourishes animators often place into an animated series. Trust me, when you draw the same thing over and over enough times, you welcome a little variety

If you've got an episode number, I can grab you an HD screen capture, if you like.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Mr March

[Primus1X]

Most of them appear to be Picket Class ships, and a few Thurvel Salans. Some appear to be those classes, yet have extra/slightly different features, probably just the typical artistic flourishes animators often place into an animated series. Trust me, when you draw the same thing over and over enough times, you welcome a little variety

If you've got an episode number, I can grab you an HD screen capture, if you like.

It is Episode two timestamp 14:31 frame 10

It's hard to tell, while Picket Ships are much smaller, they have that tapering shape like the Thuverl Salan class

[Mr March]

Thanks for the precise Time Index! That made it a lot easier to find.

Here is an HD screen capture. i think most of them are recognizable as established Zentradi ship classes. Maybe the drawing is a little rough, but I think it mostly works.

[Zinjo]

Yes I was aware he was doing something. Are you aware that I was kinda just being that dick that explains everything...

My attempt at humor was poorly executed.

It's OK, you weren't alone...