The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[azrael]

The fact you are spending this much time on this subject of ranks shows me you want more detail out of a work of fiction than the storytellers have likely created or will likely create. The writers only create enough detail to make the story and the characters of the story. They don't need to make any more.

Macross isn't designed to use any particular nations' military ranks. It only uses Japanese military ranks because it is convenient to the creators. They didn't have to follow it. The creators based the characters ranks loosely on Japanese Air and Naval systems for convenience. The creators didn't have to use any particular system but they chose that one. The translators should maintain that system in their translations. All we want are nice consistent translations. That's all we ask.

The Macross-stories are works of fiction. Not real-life. If you want the detail level of real-life, then it's no longer fiction.

[Valkyrie Driver]

"The late Lt. Commander Tim Baker is presumably a UN Navy pilot..."

The key word here is "presume." Extrapolating from the English here is no different than other extrapolations from other instances of perfectly legible English.

Personally, I agree with translating using a western army system, with occasional navalizations on a case by case basis. However, my reasoning is based only on the goal of consistent translation between works, not on any presumption of how much thought the creators put into what the ranks are in English.

I presume that they haven't thought that much about it, and in the unlikely event that there is an official English translation, I can't imagine Kawamori or anyone laying out a detailed vision of how ranks are to be translated.

But, that's only my presumption, and perhaps better suited for discussion in a separate thread. People should feel free to drop questions in this thread without barging into a discussion.

Hence why I keep pointing out that the Japanese names for the ranks basically don't change regardless of what branch we're talking about, because the ranks are descriptive. Technically a UN Spacy Ensign or 2LT or whatever would be Uchuugun Shoi. It doesn't matter what it is in English, since someone speaking japanese is going to call a butterbar, shoi. That's even assuming the rank insignia are the same, which I'm almost certain it isn't. In plus I'm pretty sure Millard was wearing an insignia that looked like an IJA Colonel.

Lets also just assume that it's a unified command, If Dyson were ever promoted and given command of a fighter squadron, he might have the english rank major, but if he were given a frigate to command he'd be a Lieutenant Commander.

Here's another interesting factoid, Squadron commanders in the USAF are sometimes appointed as Majors, but they don't stay majors very long. A USAF Squadron Commander is a LtCol billet. Just saying, Roy would never have been a squadron commander if he'd not been selected for LtCol, if the UN Spacy followed USAF conventions.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Valkyrie Driver

[Seto Kaiba]

If you could direct me toward the scenes you're referencing, I'll go have a look.

I'll do one better, here's a screen capture and the production art that goes with it. Like I said before, there are a lot of things you can do in the Navy, but holding the ranks of First Lieutenant or Staff Sergeant are not in the cards. That's 18:46 in "Blind Game". There are others, but this is the earliest high-visibility one.

I'm not going to argue about platoon vs team, because frankly that bit is pointless. I mean, the Navy calls [...]

What the Navy calls anything is immaterial to the translation of shotai... in an aircraft context, it's a level of organization neither the US Navy nor the US Air Force use... being that it's below a Flight, organizationally.

Platoon vs. Team is purely a matter of preference. The term can be read either way in the exact same context, but the Macross creative staff have demonstrated a preference for "Platoon", Gundam's for "Team". (As an aside, Mikimoto uses "Team" for the apparel that Skull Squadron apparently has...)

The direct translation of the JMSDF ranks [...]

Not wishing to be rude, but this isn't about etymology. This is about how Macross's creators intended for the neutral Japanese rank terms to be translated/interpreted... especially into English, since there's a lot of evidence to point to the actual in-universe language being spoken being English most of the time. All evidence is that it's meant to be Army/Air Force-style ranks in English... to such an extent that the UN Forces have a rank that the Japanese don't use (Brigadier General, which more than one character has held.)

While there is distinction between components, there's mobility between them. If you cross train to a different operational specialty, you, in essence, change branches (at least that's how I understand it, Canadians feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). That might be how the military forces in Macross have begun to work post space war one.

There may be some evidence to support this view in Isamu's personnel file in Macross Plus. (The same one that, in English, gives his rank as First Lieutenant... helpfully reprinted in a more legible form on pages 27 and 28 of the Macross Plus Archives booklet in the blu-ray release. Isamu is noted as having joined the UN Spacy, and holding the rank of First Lieutenant therein, but having an assortment of assignments ranging from deep space patrols to UN Air Force bases and even a stint on a UN Navy carrier.

Shin Kudo also seems to have transferred from the Navy to the Spacy, though from his bio it appears he lost seniority doing so... though the record's a little sketchy on whether he lost rank doing it or not.

"The late Lt. Commander Tim Baker is presumably a UN Navy pilot..."

The key word here is "presume." Extrapolating from the English here is no different than other extrapolations from other instances of perfectly legible English.

It's far and away the most plausible explanation given the evidence... the reasoning behind it goes:

• For the previous twenty-odd years, Macross's creators have presented the UN Spacy's ranks in English as Army/Air Force ranks in the animation.

• The multiply-late Mr. Tim Baker (poor sod snuffs it at least four times by my count!) is the only who whose aircraft displays a rank marking at all on its canopy stencil... the pilots whose affiliation is explicitly the UN Spacy just have "PL" and then the pilot's name. That marks him out as being different from the other pilots.

  

  

• We know that the UN Spacy pilot trainees on the Asuka II were sharing space and training alongside members of other branches of the UN armed forces... including the UN Marines (whom Shin spars with, badly).

• Other sources like Master File helpfully assert that UN Navy pilots were in fact flying VF-0's from the Asuka II at the time, and we know that other branches did operate VF-0's at the time (the UN Marines even had their own variant, the VF-0C).

Hence why I keep pointing out that the Japanese names for the ranks basically don't change regardless of what branch we're talking about, because the ranks are descriptive. Technically a UN Spacy Ensign or 2LT or whatever would be Uchuugun Shoi. It doesn't matter what it is in English, [...]

It does matter... for two reasons. The first being that, if we're going to provide accurate translations, we should follow the demonstrated intent of the show's creators to that end. The second is that all indications are practically everyone in Macross is, beyond the translation convention, speaking English... and in English, y'don't call 'em shoi... you call 'em 2nd Lieutenant or Ensign, depending on what branch they're serving with.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Seto Kaiba

[Valkyrie Driver]

I'll do one better, here's a screen capture and the production art that goes with it. Like I said before, there are a lot of things you can do in the Navy, but holding the ranks of First Lieutenant or Staff Sergeant are not in the cards. That's 18:46 in "Blind Game". There are others, but this is the earliest high-visibility one.

vlcsnap-2015-08-17-19h59m28s821.png

Ok, so there it is in all it's glory. I hate to burst your bubble though, but that's not how the USAF abbreviates those ranks. First Lieutenant is 1st Lt, and Staff Sergeant is SSgt, not F/Lieut and S/Sgt. You're right though, 1st Lt and SSgt are not ranks you can hold in the Navy. But holding to that being a pilot is something you can't do in the Air Force as a SSgt. You can't be a pilot and be a Petty Officer 2nd Class in the Navy either, so the whole thing just kind turns south in terms of realism.

What the Navy calls anything is immaterial to the translation of shotai... in an aircraft context, it's a level of organization neither the US Navy nor the US Air Force use... being that it's below a Flight, organizationally.

Platoon vs. Team is purely a matter of preference. The term can be read either way in the exact same context, but the Macross creative staff have demonstrated a preference for "Platoon", Gundam's for "Team". (As an aside, Mikimoto uses "Team" for the apparel that Skull Squadron apparently has...)

I was trying to illustrate that the same word can be used in multiple ways to describe different organizational things. Also, the closest thing to shotai would be an element. You're partially, right in that it's not a fixed organizational thing, and it's size is not defined.

I'm not going to argue about this term because it doesn't matter. Shotai is shotai, as it really has no good analogue who cares what you call it.

Not wishing to be rude, but this isn't about etymology. This is about how Macross's creators intended for the neutral Japanese rank terms to be translated/interpreted... especially into English, since there's a lot of evidence to point to the actual in-universe language being spoken being English most of the time. All evidence is that it's meant to be Army/Air Force-style ranks in English... to such an extent that the UN Forces have a rank that the Japanese don't use (Brigadier General, which more than one character has held.)

I honestly don't think they gave it that much thought, as they were producing this for consumption by a Japanese audience. As for the rank of brigadier general, the japanese don't need it because their forces are so small, and that position can be filled adequately by a senior colonel or junior Major General. However when you begin dealing with the scope that the UN forces are dealing with, you need a dedicated rank to fill that position, it's a delegation of authority thing. To be fair, it probably suggests more that it all falls under a unified command structure than anything else.

There may be some evidence to support this view in Isamu's personnel file in Macross Plus. (The same one that, in English, gives his rank as First Lieutenant... helpfully reprinted in a more legible form on pages 27 and 28 of the Macross Plus Archives booklet in the blu-ray release. Isamu is noted as having joined the UN Spacy, and holding the rank of First Lieutenant therein, but having an assortment of assignments ranging from deep space patrols to UN Air Force bases and even a stint on a UN Navy carrier.

Shin Kudo also seems to have transferred from the Navy to the Spacy, though from his bio it appears he lost seniority doing so... though the record's a little sketchy on whether he lost rank doing it or not.

I think we'd see a lot less distinction between different branches in the Macross universe. It seems to me that the UN Spacy and UN Marines would be found out in space, while the Army, Navy, and Air Force would be responsible for fixed points (like individual planets or star systems). I think you'd see a fluid transfer of personnel between them, based on assignment. more than likely, rank names would change depending on your operational specialty, aviation specialties might all use the air force rank system, while shipboard specialties might use the navy system (think we've seen that in practice but I don't know where, I'm sure I'll corrected if I'm wrong).

It does matter... for two reasons. The first being that, if we're going to provide accurate translations, we should follow the demonstrated intent of the show's creators to that end. The second is that all indications are practically everyone in Macross is, beyond the translation convention, speaking English... and in English, y'don't call 'em shoi... you call 'em 2nd Lieutenant or Ensign, depending on what branch they're serving with.

Ok, for consistency I can understand. However, the problem is, the english translations have all been inconsistent. Mr. Kawamori would have to get involved and say one way or the other, and fact is, I don't believe he's really thinking about us english speaking westerners, because we're not the target audience. Current trends in business and diplomacy aside, I'd like to know where the notion that everyone is speaking english (in universe) is coming from.

Finally this brings me to:

The fact you are spending this much time on this subject of ranks shows me you want more detail out of a work of fiction than the storytellers have likely created or will likely create. The writers only create enough detail to make the story and the characters of the story. They don't need to make any more.

Macross isn't designed to use any particular nations' military ranks. It only uses Japanese military ranks because it is convenient to the creators. They didn't have to follow it. The creators based the characters ranks loosely on Japanese Air and Naval systems for convenience. The creators didn't have to use any particular system but they chose that one. The translators should maintain that system in their translations. All we want are nice consistent translations. That's all we ask.

The Macross-stories are works of fiction. Not real-life. If you want the detail level of real-life, then it's no longer fiction.

^^ This, all of it.

Basically all we're doing is:

[Gubaba]

The second is that all indications are practically everyone in Macross is, beyond the translation convention, speaking English...

AND Portuguese, AND French, AND Chinese...

[Seto Kaiba]

I was trying to illustrate that the same word can be used in multiple ways to describe different organizational things.

Yes, I know... the problem is that it never had any bearing on the matter at hand or any effect on the evidence.

I think we'd see a lot less distinction between different branches in the Macross universe. It seems to me that the UN Spacy and UN Marines would be found out in space, while the Army, Navy, and Air Force would be responsible for fixed points (like individual planets or star systems).

Seven branches are mentioned, in total... the UN Army, UN Air Force, UN Navy, UN Marines, UN Spacy, UN Spacy Air Force, and UN Spacy Marines.

I think you'd see a fluid transfer of personnel between them, based on assignment. more than likely, rank names would change depending on your operational specialty, aviation specialties might all use the air force rank system, while shipboard specialties might use the navy system (think we've seen that in practice but I don't know where, I'm sure I'll corrected if I'm wrong).

I don't recall seeing anything to that effect. The official profiles for the bridge operators of the original series have always used the Army/Air Force ranks... even in the liner notes from the Animeigo DVD release.

Ok, for consistency I can understand. However, the problem is, the english translations have all been inconsistent. Mr. Kawamori would have to get involved and say one way or the other, [...]

Some of the very early official translations were, yes... and fan subs being hit and miss is just the nature of the beast. I don't really think Kawamori needs to weigh in on this any more than he already has through his work. He's repeatedly shown us, right there in the animation itself, how those ranks are supposed to be translated... going all the way back to the original series. There isn't any mystery here, the matter was settled in December 1982... so I'm not gonna belabor the point any further.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Seto Kaiba

[Valkyrie Driver]

Fine, you win. Happy? Can we move on now? I think Azrael's post nailed it.

[Gerli]

Why the space background in macross 7 was BLUE?

[Gubaba]

Why the space background in macross 7 was BLUE?

I remember Renato saying that it was a choice on the part of the staff because the ship was nearing the galactic center, where things were a lot brighter.

[Seto Kaiba]

AND Portuguese, AND French, AND Chinese...

... Portuguese? My curiosity is well and truly piqued. Where in Macross did we get written or spoken Portuguese?

[Zinjo]

Yes, I know... the problem is that it never had any bearing on the matter at hand or any effect on the evidence.

Seven branches are mentioned, in total... the UN Army, UN Air Force, UN Navy, UN Marines, UN Spacy, UN Spacy Air Force, and UN Spacy Marines.

I don't recall seeing anything to that effect. The official profiles for the bridge operators of the original series have always used the Army/Air Force ranks... even in the liner notes from the Animeigo DVD release.

Some of the very early official translations were, yes... and fan subs being hit and miss is just the nature of the beast. I don't really think Kawamori needs to weigh in on this any more than he already has through his work. He's repeatedly shown us, right there in the animation itself, how those ranks are supposed to be translated... going all the way back to the original series. There isn't any mystery here, the matter was settled in December 1982... so I'm not gonna belabor the point any further.

Can we all just agree that the SDFM production team really didn't do extensive research into this particular subject and move on?

I remember Renato saying that it was a choice on the part of the staff because the ship was nearing the galactic center, where things were a lot brighter.

I am surprised and pleased by this knowledge...

Edited August 18, 2015 by Zinjo

[Gubaba]

... Portuguese? My curiosity is well and truly piqued. Where in Macross did we get written or spoken Portuguese?

Background chatter in DYRL, I *think* when it's showing the city, right before "My Boyfriend's a Pilot" fades in.

[Seto Kaiba]

Background chatter in DYRL, I *think* when it's showing the city, right before "My Boyfriend's a Pilot" fades in.

Neat. I'll be sure to listen for it when I get to DYRL in my re-watch. Thanks.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Can we all just agree that the SDFM production team really didn't do extensive research into this particular subject and move on?

I think we have, all of us, agreed to disagree and let the mater go. We do not need to call any ore attention to this.

These are not the droids you're looking for...

AND Portuguese, AND French, AND Chinese...

I did not catch portugese being spoken, but I have no reason to assume it wouldn't be. I had always assumed the Macross Universe was a culturally diverse place. Much like our world is currently, only united (more or less) and not nearly as dangerous (post Unification Wars). I'll have to listen a bit more closely next time I run through the other productions...

By the way, Is it the Unification War or Unification Wars? Was it just one war over the 10 year span, or was it multiple smaller wars? Is there any solid information on how long it/they lasted?

[Gubaba]

By the way, Is it the Unification War or Unification Wars? Was it just one war over the 10 year span, or was it multiple smaller wars? Is there any solid information on how long it/they lasted?

Japanese doesn't always have plurals, so really, War or Wars would be the same. AnimEigo used "Wars," so I think that what most people go by (also, check the description of them in Ep. 1).

As for how long each lasted, there's not too much info, although the official timeline gives some of the major battles and attacks over the years.

[grigolosi]

Yeah it sounded to me from the description that it was series of "brushfire wars" in various regions. Certain countries backing their interest in either supporting the unification or preventing it. Knowing human nature there was some form political agenda being pushed on both sides. I have seen some sources saying it lasted roughly until 06-07 where it became kind of a luke warm war until the Birdman Incident of Macross Zero caused it to flare up again. Then after that incident the AU alliance apparently completely dissolved.

[azrael]

It is collectively known as "Unification War" but they started as a series of smaller conflicts so technically, "Wars" is correct. When the Anti-Unification Alliance formed, then it became a "War". But by 2007, the major countries in the AU Alliance backed out so now they became "wars" as the smaller factions now picked up the fighting on their own. By the end of 2008, the major conflicts ended. If there were any additional conflicts, they were insignificant.

[Seto Kaiba]

I did not catch portugese being spoken, but I have no reason to assume it wouldn't be. I had always assumed the Macross Universe was a culturally diverse place. Much like our world is currently, only united (more or less) and not nearly as dangerous (post Unification Wars).

Before the First Space War, certainly... though English appears to have been the official language of the UN Forces, if not the UN Government itself, and the de facto everyday language seen in pretty much every series up until Frontier.

We didn't really start seeing written Japanese in the series until around Macross 7 Trash, when Enika wrote a letter to Movado... the Frontier fleet seems to use as much Japanese as English. We see Sheryl leave a lipstick note in French for Grace, and some of the aerospace engineers at General Galaxy clearly know a bit of German...

By the way, Is it the Unification War or Unification Wars? Was it just one war over the 10 year span, or was it multiple smaller wars? Is there any solid information on how long it/they lasted?

Officially (and by this I mean, "as far as the UN Government told its citizens") the UN Wars lasted from May 2001 to January 2007... about five and a half years. In actuality, the conflicts started before there was organized opposition to the UN Government in July of 2000 and the Chronicle chronology notes that the REAL end of the UN Wars wasn't until December 2008, a couple months after the nations backing the Alliance withdrew their support.

Yeah it sounded to me from the description that it was series of "brushfire wars" in various regions. Certain countries backing their interest in either supporting the unification or preventing it.

Yep... all told, before there was organized resistance to the new government it was a series of little regional spats that started in the middle east.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Yep... all told, before there was organized resistance to the new government it was a series of little regional spats that started in the middle east.

Go figure...

[Renato]

With regards to space being blue in M7, as Gubaba said, that was only near the start of the show when they are near the galactic core, you will notice it is black when they fold to another part of space. (If you make it that far into the show )

As for DYRL, I don't know about Portuguese, but there is definitely some Spanish in that scene just before "My Boyfriend is a Pilot" because you hear a lady say "Pero esta lindo, oye..!" Kawamori says he added all these languages in the background chatter (and the lines are all read by foreigners) to reflect the global nature of the city in the Macross.

[Scream Man]

i'm sure this info is out there, but maybe i have just never understood it:

What are the extendy antenna devices on the F-29 SP Wingtips? I THINK I remmeber them being some sort of fold wave amplifier that would let people hear Ranks song easier or something.... but that seems oddly specific.

i may have just made this up in my head, but i thought they wrre fold booster units that alllowed the fighter to traverse faults the way the Vajra do.

[Gerli]

With regards to space being blue in M7, as Gubaba said, that was only near the start of the show when they are near the galactic core, you will notice it is black when they fold to another part of space. (If you make it that far into the show )

Cool detail.

i remember the same explanation in Gunbuster, but the space was totally white in the galactic core

[Renato]

Cool detail.

i remember the same explanation in Gunbuster, but the space was totally white in the galactic core

Well, I guess they were "approaching the galactic core" in M7, not actually there. It also served to show off the VF-17 without it blending into the background.

[Seto Kaiba]

i'm sure this info is out there, but maybe i have just never understood it:

What are the extendy antenna devices on the F-29 SP Wingtips? I THINK I remmeber them being some sort of fold wave amplifier that would let people hear Ranks song easier or something.... but that seems oddly specific.

i may have just made this up in my head, but i thought they wrre fold booster units that alllowed the fighter to traverse faults the way the Vajra do.

They're fold-wave projectors for jamming the Vajra collective mind... also allegedly used to amplify the fold wave system's ability to enhance airframe performance.

[Scream Man]

So here is soemthing i learened today. i was watching god Eater and they went after a monster called a Vajra. i thought that was an odd coincidence so I went and looked up the word. Turns out it's a real thing!

From Wiki:

Vajra is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond.^[1] Additionally, it is a weapon which is used as a ritual object to symbolize both the properties of a diamond (indestructibility) and a thunderbolt (irresistible force).

It is also known as Bajra/बज्र (Nepali), vajram (Tamil), bojro (Bengali), bajra (Malay), dorje (Tibetan),^[1][2][3]dorji (Dzongkha), wajra (Indonesian), jīngāng, 金刚 (Chinese), geumgangjeo (Korean), kongōsho (Japanese) and Очир ochir / Базар Bazar (Mongolian).

The vajra is essentially a type of club with a ribbed spherical head. The ribs may meet in a ball-shaped top, or they may be separate and end in sharp points with which to stab. The vajra is used symbolically by the dharmatraditions of Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism, often to represent firmness of spirit and spiritual power.^[4] The use of the vajra as a symbolic and ritual tool spread from India along with Indian religion and culture to other parts of Asia.

So there you go!

[Scream Man]

They're fold-wave projectors for jamming the Vajra collective mind... also allegedly used to amplify the fold wave system's ability to enhance airframe performance.

So when they're extended the crystals are ... active or whatever, and the airframe is stronger?

[Gubaba]

Scream Man, we've been over that before...

Also, Vajra = Basara!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals

[JB0]

Scream Man, we've been over that before...

Also, Vajra = Basara!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals

So after he left 7 fleet, Basara turned into a space bug? I'm confused now.

[Gubaba]

So after he left 7 fleet, Basara turned into a space bug? I'm confused now.

[Seto Kaiba]

So when they're extended the crystals are ... active or whatever, and the airframe is stronger?

When they're extended, the antennae are freed up to broadcast the fold wave jamming signal or to receive and amplify fold song.

Exactly how it ties into the fold wave system's enhancement of the engines, power plant, etc. isn't 100% clear, but it appears to simply amplify the effects of the system's efforts to optimize output.

[Zinjo]

So after he left 7 fleet, Basara turned into a space bug? I'm confused now.

I totally support that theory, he was certainly a "bug" during the series

I am astonished that on a show like M7 the director had the sense to make space near the core blue. Must have been the same team responsible for all the good stuff in between the J-Pop storyline....

it is why I believe the closer humanity would get to the core, the more Zentradi and SA forces they would encounter as well as ruins of PC worlds devastated by both the Civil and PD wars.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Zinjo

[frothymug]

IIRC, some of the in-universe tech is reliant on fold space for certain physical effects it can exert in normal space. I don't remember where I saw it, but I recall seeing tech tidbits about how the Inertia Store Converter uses fold space as an inertial dampener, thermonuclear engines use fold space to assist in plasma confinement, and the Dragunov also uses fold space to dampen the recoil. Did I dream this up, or can someone confirm with a source?

Same principles may apply to the YF-29.

[JB0]

IIRC, some of the in-universe tech is reliant on fold space for certain physical effects it can exert in normal space. I don't remember where I saw it, but I recall seeing tech tidbits about how the Inertia Store Converter uses fold space as an inertial dampener, thermonuclear engines use fold space to assist in plasma confinement, and the Dragunov also uses fold space to dampen the recoil. Did I dream this up, or can someone confirm with a source?

Same principles may apply to the YF-29.

If I recall, the original Macross' cannon is such a device.

[Seto Kaiba]

IIRC, some of the in-universe tech is reliant on fold space for certain physical effects it can exert in normal space. I don't remember where I saw it, but I recall seeing tech tidbits about how the Inertia Store Converter uses fold space as an inertial dampener, thermonuclear engines use fold space to assist in plasma confinement, and the Dragunov also uses fold space to dampen the recoil. Did I dream this up, or can someone confirm with a source?

Same principles may apply to the YF-29.

Quite a bit of in-series overtechnology taps into or otherwise uses the physics of super dimension space to function:

• Space fold systems/boosters
• Fold communications (incl. jamming systems like the Jamming Sound System)
• Song Energy systems (incl. sound boosters)
• Fold-wave/cross-dimension radar
• Pin-point and Omnidirectional barriers
• Thermonuclear reaction power systems (incl. heat pile systems, reaction furnaces, engines, etc.)
• Super dimension energy weaponry under its various pseudonyms

  - Super dimension energy cannons

  - Converging beam cannons

  - Converging energy cannons

  - Guided converging beam cannons

  - Guided assembled beam cannons

  - High-angle beam cannons

  - Heavy quantum cannons

  - Macross cannons

  - MDE beam weapons

• Thermonuclear reaction weaponry (in the trigger mechanism)
• Dimension Eater (and Micro-Dimension Eater) weaponry
• Gravity and Inertia Control technology
• Fold Wave and Fold Dimension Resonance systems (for VF performance enhancement on the YF-29 and YF-30)

There's also another form of fold-based power generation that humanity doesn't use yet called fold dimension energy conversion, which appears to be what the Vajra, and possibly Birdhuman and Protodeviln use.

The only one I've never heard is the SSL-9 Dragunov 55mm railgun using fold technology to dampen the recoil...

If I recall, the original Macross' cannon is such a device.

Yep... though there are a LOT of weapons of that type in Macross. The smallest are guns that were mounted internally on the YF-19 and VF-22, the largest being the Grand Cannons and the big guns on Zentradi mobile fortresses.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Yep... though there are a LOT of weapons of that type in Macross. The smallest are guns that were mounted internally on the YF-19 and VF-22, the largest being the Grand Cannons and the big guns on Zentradi mobile fortresses.

Wait, I thought the internal guns on the valks were just high powered laser or particle accelerator type weapons...