The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Gubaba]

No, you're right, Cdr Fokker. It's just the karaoke tracks with new vocals.

[mickyg]

This may have been asked before, but what are the "true" markings of Hikaru's VF-1J in the TV series?

I see a lot of toys with "VF" on the bottom of the shins, right above the feet. I have looked for images of this in the TV show but can't find it anywhere. I'd love to know where this marking came from. It sort of makes sense but I find it a bit silly - sort of how the VF-171 has it all over the place.

[Ikaruss]

Hi!

I was looking for the military ranks.

Do you guys/girls, have any idea about it?

Can you list it?

My only reference is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Army_Air_Service

I see in some subs, that Roy was mentioned as Major.

Hikaru was mentioned as Sergeant, and later Lieutenant.

Also... do you have any squadron formation?

Like this?

On where we can see clearly the Hikaru, Max Kakizaki and Roy's position?

Oh, and sorry if my english suck, hehe...
I'm little rusty to write in english.

[Valkyrie Driver]

As for ranks that we hear, when I hear it in english, I chalk it up to translation, as it makes more sense for Roy to be a Lieutenant Commander and for Hikaru to be a Petty Officer and later a Lieutenant Junior Grade, seeing as the UN Spacy (a contraction of Space Navy) would carry a maritime tradition. In Japanese the names of the ranks don't change much, if at all, from branch to branch (at least as far as I can tell, some of the junior enlisted ranks might be different).

As for squadron composition, We don't really get a lot of information from the shows as to how the flights are arranged. IN SDFM, Hikaru's team was a three ship flight. In US Military aviation, the term flight can refer to 2 things, either the organizational unit usually under a captain and including 2-5 lieutenants, and some administrative enlisted guys, or the flying unit which is a rather nebulous thing, consisting of 2-6 aircraft. The typical US Military flying squadron is usually 14-24 aircraft and 12-22 pilots.

In the US Air Force, the basic functional unit is the Squadron, flights are usually just an organizational tool to delegate duties and establish a clear chain of command.

[grigolosi]

never mind...........

Edited August 3, 2015 by grigolosi

[Valkyrie Driver]

There is precedent and provision for enlisted pilots, but those are extreme wartime conditions, which it could be argued that Macross is experiencing in SDFM. We don't see it in later productions, but then CF pilots don't ever really get any screen time, if they even get names...

I had forgotten to mention that about USAF flights, using callsigns rather than colors, I didn't work all that closely with USAF flying units, spending most of my time working with the Army. I don't know how the JSDF does it, but I can't really imagine they'd stray too much from the established Imperial Air Forces way of doing organizing things. We can't all do it the USAF way (lord knows, the USAF shouldn't be doing things the USAF way right now...).

[Seto Kaiba]

I was looking for the military ranks.

Do you guys/girls, have any idea about it?

Can you list it?

The UN Spacy in Macross uses an Army/Air Force rank system.

Whether it's Army or Air Force is hard to say, but signs point to it being an Air Force rank system based on how they're shown to abbreviate the rank "Staff Sergeant" as SSgt instead of SSG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_comparative_military_ranks#United_States

They're not using a straight Japanese rank system because they have a rank that doesn't exist in the Japanese system (that of Brigadier General). Many translations have brought over the officer candidate rank (准尉, Jun-i) as "Warrant Officer", though in Japanese style, it's a rank/position directly below a 2nd Lieutenant, rather than part of a separate class of ranks altogether.

I see in some subs, that Roy was mentioned as Major.

Hikaru was mentioned as Sergeant, and later Lieutenant.

Roy was a Major. Hikaru got promoted several times throughout the original series, from his original post as a Sergeant, to a 2nd Lieutenant, and by the end of the series he was a Captain, IIRC.

Also... do you have any squadron formation?

Like this?

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/UN_Spacy

Translators are a bit divided on how to translate the term shotai... official Macross merch suggests the approved translation is "Platoon" rather than "Team". (Should probably go Squadron / Flight / Platoon instead of Group / Squadron / Team).

As for ranks that we hear, when I hear it in english, I chalk it up to translation, as it makes more sense for Roy to be a Lieutenant Commander and for Hikaru to be a Petty Officer and later a Lieutenant Junior Grade,[...]

The ranks seen on screen, written in perfectly legible English, are consistently those of an Army/Air Force rank system. In the real world, a space fleet would be under the administrative authority of a nation's Air Force, and it appears that Macross's creators were well aware of that fact.

(As noted above, the abbreviation used for Staff Sergeant in onscreen text suggests an Air Force rank system instead of an Army one... it's abbreviated SSgt onscreen, instead of SSG.)

[...] seeing as the UN Spacy (a contraction of Space Navy) would carry a maritime tradition.

This is actually a fairly common misconception.

"UN Spacy" is not a contraction of "Space Navy". In Japanese, it's written as 宇宙軍 (Uchuu-gun), which is "Space Army" or "Space Military". "Space Navy" or "Space Fleet" are written differently. The ranks we're presented with (in English) in the series and later are those of an Army or Air Force. It's all but impossible to tell which, since the lowest mentioned rank is Sergeant, and the lowest written rank is Staff Sergeant, both of which exist in both systems.

The rank structure appears to be based on a combination of the WWII era Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. The ranks start as enlisted pilots but they work their way up to officer ranks. What I have noticed is the inconsistency of the ranks after they reach officer. In some cases I have seen them use use the rank of Captain and lieutenant as in Klan's rank.

Klan's rank is always given as Tai-i (equiv. Army Captain, Navy Lieutenant). It should be translated as Captain (in the Army or Air Force sense) based on official material, though some fansubs translate it using the Navy rank Lieutenant instead.

I believe some of the rank confusion can be pointed at mis-translation. They have also used the rank Major in referring to Ozma Lee and later in the series for MF he is referred to as Commander. Which is actually correct if they are referring to him as in manner of Lt Commander.

No, this is not a case of mistranslation... but rather an area of linguistic precision.

Ozma's rank (in SMS) is that of a Major (少佐 Shosa)... the reason for the confusion is his title (隊長 Taichou) which is "Unit Leader" or "Commanding Officer", which translators sometimes (irritatingly) shorten to "Commander" even though it's not actually a rank.

Roy's position is that of a Squadron Commander.

Roy's position was Commander of the SDF-1's Air Group (and Squadron CO for Skull Squadron).

Hikaru and Max become team leaders where as Kakizaki died before he could get his own team. The teams are equal to Flights in Air Force structures.

Organizationally, this aspect of the UN Forces is not based on the USAF... it's a distinctly Japanese touch. The term (小隊 Shotai) refers to a level of organization below that of a Flight (translated as "Platoon" in Macross) consisting of 2-4 aircraft led by a junior officer.

Corporal

Sergeant

Warrant Officer

Ensign (2nd lieutenant in AF/Army ranks)

2nd Lieutenant (Lieutenant in AF/Army ranks)

Lieutenant JG (Captain in AF/Army ranks)

Lieutenant (Captain in AF/Army ranks)

Lt. Commander (Major in AF/Army ranks}

Commander (Lt. Colonel in AF/Army ranks)

Captain (Colonel in AF/Army ranks)

Rear Admiral (Major General in AF/Army ranks)

Vice Admiral ( Lieutenant General in AF/Army ranks)

Admiral (General in AF/Army ranks)

This is what I thinking since the Macross universe was created in Japan. So the rank structures would be based on their military ranks. The enlisted rankings are taken from the WWII Imperial Army since most major AF's and Navy's no longer have enlisted pilots.

This looks like something out of the-show-that-must-not-be-named...

As noted previously, the rank system in use is that of an Army/Air Force, and titles like "Captain (of a ship)" or "Admiral (in the sense of an officer commanding a fleet)" are not ranks, but titles. I prefer "Shipmaster" and "Fleetmaster" to minimize confusion... they're entirely separate words from the ranks of "Captain" and "Admiral" in Japanese.

"Captain" Global's rank is Brigadier General (准将 Junsho), but his title is Shipmaster (艦長 Kanchou)... separate and distinct from the actual rank of Colonel/Captain (大佐 Taisa). Similarly, a flag officer commanding a fleet could be a General (大将 Taisho) but his title (as commanding officer of a fleet) would be "Admiral"/"Fleetmaster" (提督 Teitoku).

[JB0]

There is precedent and provision for enlisted pilots, but those are extreme wartime conditions, which it could be argued that Macross is experiencing in SDFM. We don't see it in later productions, but then CF pilots don't ever really get any screen time, if they even get names...

They actually call out in SDF that they're putting people in planes and promoting people faster than they really ought to be.

Right from the start, the Macross is trapped behind enemy lines with a massive shortage of pilots and a lot of uncrewed planes(with roughly half of their Valkyrie complement having come from the not-airtight Prometheus).

They need butts in seats faster than they can train them.

[Gubaba]

They actually call out in SDF that they're putting people in planes and promoting people faster than they really ought to be.Right from the start, the Macross is trapped behind enemy lines with a massive shortage of pilots and a lot of uncrewed planes(with roughly half of their Valkyrie complement having come from the not-airtight Prometheus).They need butts in seats faster than they can train them.

Not to mention a good percentage of experienced soldiers getting killed off in the Unification Wars.

Hell, I'm surprised they never drafted Yot-chan...

[Valkyrie Driver]

Seto, you may be correct, but I reject your reality and substitute my own. In my reality, the UN Spacy would have a Maritime tradition, because Navies know how to work big ships and Air Forces don't (Stargate SG-1 bothered me the same way).

Still, the rank title doesn't change from branch to branch in Japan, so to the Japanese it's all contextual, where in western nations we have this split between army and navy (most air forces using army traditions as they were generally an outgrowth of the army in some way).

Japanese, much like German seems to favor descriptive naming conventions, rather than the rather vague descriptors used in English.

[werwulf]

New to the site and have a couple quick questions on mechanics. I'm looking for some pictures of a Regults leg mechanisms. Basic I'm wanting to build a Regult doing a side kick and would like to see how the "mechanics" work to make it more natural. Thanks for any help.

[sketchley]

As one of the translators, I'll throw in my 2 cents:

(...)

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/UN_Spacy

When in doubt, I fall back on the Macross Compendium's list in that link.
But let me remind us all that not all of us come from the same country nor speak the same English. So, some of the confusion may be stemming from Commonwealth English using different terminology than American English, to name but one difference.

No, this is not a case of mistranslation... but rather an area of linguistic precision.

Ozma's rank (in SMS) is that of a Major (少佐 Shosa)... the reason for the confusion is his title (隊長 Taichou) which is "Unit Leader" or "Commanding Officer", which translators sometimes (irritatingly) shorten to "Commander" even though it's not actually a rank.

That one could be stemming from the autocorrect feature - as both "commanding officer" and "commander" should probably not be capitalized in this case - that's one more difference in Japanese: there's no capitalization to clarify if something is a proper noun or merely a descriptor!

Edited August 4, 2015 by sketchley

[JB0]

Not to mention a good percentage of experienced soldiers getting killed off in the Unification Wars.

Hell, I'm surprised they never drafted Yot-chan...

They would've if he could reach the pedals.

[GMK]

Random one: in SDFM, does Hikaru's Valk (VF-1S) survive the battle for earth pretty-much intact?

[Gubaba]

Considering he's still flying it to the end of series, yeah, I'd think so.

[JB0]

Considering he's still flying it to the end of series, yeah, I'd think so.

Do we actually know it's still Roy's old VF-1 instead of a new-production 1S badged with the old 001 paintjob? Because by the end of the war it HAD seen an awful lot of abuse.

I mean, Skull 1 is the only one that's ever CARRYING a number, so it doesn't seem to be a serial number so much as a designation of leadership.

Not to say I don't want to believe it's still Roy's, but...

[azrael]

Do we actually know it's still Roy's old VF-1 instead of a new-production 1S badged with the old 001 paintjob? Because by the end of the war it HAD seen an awful lot of abuse.

I mean, Skull 1 is the only one that's ever CARRYING a number, so it doesn't seem to be a serial number so much as a designation of leadership.

Not to say I don't want to believe it's still Roy's, but...

That part we don't know. Since his plane was trashed and there was a time jump, it's possible.

[Seto Kaiba]

Random one: in SDFM, does Hikaru's Valk (VF-1S) survive the battle for earth pretty-much intact?

Define "intact".

As far as we know, yes... on paper, the VF-1S Hikaru is flying at the end of the series is the same one he "inherited" from Roy. How much of its mass is replacement hardware for damaged or destroyed components, we can't say with precision. Hikaru lost the arms blocking a missile attack during the space battle against the Boddole Zer main fleet, as well as the canopy, and a bunch of other bits and pieces were probably damaged and subsequently replaced prior to the conclusion of the actual conflict in 2012.

Do we actually know it's still Roy's old VF-1 instead of a new-production 1S badged with the old 001 paintjob? Because by the end of the war it HAD seen an awful lot of abuse.

I mean, Skull 1 is the only one that's ever CARRYING a number, so it doesn't seem to be a serial number so much as a designation of leadership.

True, it is the only one with a visible Modex number in the original series... though platoon markings are briefly visible on the body of Max's VF-1A when he bails out of it in that Zentradi elevator. (I'm not sure if that actually "counts", though... since the series wasn't drawn at a super-high level of detail most of the time, the modex numbers may simply have been left out for the animation budget's sake.)

[GMK]

Lost the arms? Had forgotten about that.

Thanks.

[grigolosi]

I would be surprised if the actual original frame had survived. Considering the amount of stress a typical fighter goes through in day to day operations, flying hours accumulate very quickly. After a year of near constant combat in both space and an atmosphere I would have hated to be the Phase/Isochronal inspection team to have to look at that one. I know the frames are made of a super strong alloy (space metal or some form of titanium) but G forces can tweak the hell out of a frame after so long. I wouldn't be surprised if it had gone in afterwards for a major depot level overhaul once the part production lines started up again on the Apollo Base. It probably would have come out essentially as a new VF.

[grigolosi]

Here is another one but I don't know if this has ever been brought up. Did anyone notice on Macross Zero that Shin fired 2 inert training missiles at the MIG? Both the AIM-9 and 120 had blue training stripes on them. Live missiles are marked with a yellow stripe around the warhead section and a brown stripe around the rocket motor section.

[Seto Kaiba]

Here is another one but I don't know if this has ever been brought up. Did anyone notice on Macross Zero that Shin fired 2 inert training missiles at the MIG? Both the AIM-9 and 120 had blue training stripes on them. Live missiles are marked with a yellow stripe around the warhead section and a brown stripe around the rocket motor section.

Split the difference? I'm seeing a yellow band on the AIM-9X-2 there, but blue bands on the AIM-120D's.

Probably an issue with the reference photography they used while making the CG models for Macross Zero. Similar errors can be found in Variable Fighter Master File (on the ASM-1 and ASM-2).

[CoreyD]

I would be surprised if the actual original frame had survived. Considering the amount of stress a typical fighter goes through in day to day operations, flying hours accumulate very quickly. After a year of near constant combat in both space and an atmosphere I would have hated to be the Phase/Isochronal inspection team to have to look at that one. I know the frames are made of a super strong alloy (space metal or some form of titanium) but G forces can tweak the hell out of a frame after so long. I wouldn't be surprised if it had gone in afterwards for a major depot level overhaul once the part production lines started up again on the Apollo Base. It probably would have come out essentially as a new VF.

Essentially new yes, but in aviation you can destroy everything except the id plate, replace everything else, and it's still "the same aircraft"

[mickyg]

How very interesting. Seto, all due respect but that's no 9X being fired. Hey, you can't get every detail right, 100% of the time.

In fact, it's not a real sidewinder at all. The nose looks different to an active 9M/L and the fins have no rollerons. Looks like a CATM-9 with some active color bands applied to it. And yes, this is highly nitpicky because there's no way I'd ever see that if I were actually watching the video.

[Seto Kaiba]

How very interesting. Seto, all due respect but that's no 9X being fired. Hey, you can't get every detail right, 100% of the time.

In fact, it's not a real sidewinder at all. The nose looks different to an active 9M/L and the fins have no rollerons. Looks like a CATM-9 with some active color bands applied to it. And yes, this is highly nitpicky because there's no way I'd ever see that if I were actually watching the video.

I don't make the news, man... I just report it.

There's a picture of that same missile in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix (page 66) labeled "AIM-9X-2"... but yes, the control surfaces near the nose look a little large and square to be the AIM-9X. I'd chalk it up to a low-detail CG model not meant for intense scrutiny.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Seto Kaiba

[Seto Kaiba]

New to the site and have a couple quick questions on mechanics. I'm looking for some pictures of a Regults leg mechanisms. Basic I'm wanting to build a Regult doing a side kick and would like to see how the "mechanics" work to make it more natural. Thanks for any help.

Looking at the line art, I'm not certain that's mechanically possible for the Regult... the "hips" don't seem to have much, if any, lateral freedom.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/reguld/reguld-schematics.gif

[Valkyrie Driver]

I would be surprised if the actual original frame had survived. Considering the amount of stress a typical fighter goes through in day to day operations, flying hours accumulate very quickly. After a year of near constant combat in both space and an atmosphere I would have hated to be the Phase/Isochronal inspection team to have to look at that one. I know the frames are made of a super strong alloy (space metal or some form of titanium) but G forces can tweak the hell out of a frame after so long. I wouldn't be surprised if it had gone in afterwards for a major depot level overhaul once the part production lines started up again on the Apollo Base. It probably would have come out essentially as a new VF.

Essentially new yes, but in aviation you can destroy everything except the id plate, replace everything else, and it's still "the same aircraft"

As long as the BuNo is the same, it's the same aircraft... Thank God for BuNo's, then we don't have to go into the whole Ship of Theseus paradox...

[Seto Kaiba]

As long as the BuNo is the same, it's the same aircraft... Thank God for BuNo's, then we don't have to go into the whole Ship of Theseus paradox...

As long as she's got Bu.No.2107906/1 on there, it's all good eh?

[Valkyrie Driver]

As long as she's got Bu.No.2107906/1 on there, it's all good eh?

If that was the Bu.No. for Roy's bird, then yes. As long as that hasn't changed, it's technically the same bird, regardless of how many times or how extensively it has been repaired.

Balls-8 is still Balls-8, even though every part on that plane has probably been rebuilt or replaced since Dad flew it. Balls-8 (B-52H, T/N 008) was a plane my dad flew when he was stationed at Wurtsmith AFB. I later laid hands on it while I was at Barksdale.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Valkyrie Driver

[JB0]

I would be surprised if the actual original frame had survived. Considering the amount of stress a typical fighter goes through in day to day operations, flying hours accumulate very quickly. After a year of near constant combat in both space and an atmosphere I would have hated to be the Phase/Isochronal inspection team to have to look at that one. I know the frames are made of a super strong alloy (space metal or some form of titanium) but G forces can tweak the hell out of a frame after so long. I wouldn't be surprised if it had gone in afterwards for a major depot level overhaul once the part production lines started up again on the Apollo Base. It probably would have come out essentially as a new VF.

Don't forget the unplanned atmospheric re-entry(that led to him raiding Alaska Base to rescue Misa). He was probably not coming in at an optimal angle for that, and was missing a good chunk of the underbody due to the arms exploding earlier.

His plane DEFINITELY needed a good thorough looking-over after that, and he's lucky he didn't turn into a loosely-affiliated cloud of plasma on the way down.

How very interesting. Seto, all due respect but that's no 9X being fired. Hey, you can't get every detail right, 100% of the time.

In fact, it's not a real sidewinder at all. The nose looks different to an active 9M/L and the fins have no rollerons. Looks like a CATM-9 with some active color bands applied to it. And yes, this is highly nitpicky because there's no way I'd ever see that if I were actually watching the video.

That's what an OVERTECH Sidewinder looks like, thank you very much!

[grigolosi]

The AIM-9 head looks like a cross between the old AIM-9A/B/C seeker heads with L forward fins. The old A models had a larger head that didn't taper towards the seeker window. It also lacks an arming handle also. But I just noticed the lack of rollerons also Micky. Now the 120's also have mis-matched fins. The aft fins are AIM-120C fins and the forward fins are from an AIM-120B. The 120C has clipped fins to fit in missile bays on 5th gen fighters. All new AIM 120's come with clipped fins especially the C and D model's. No you can't just throw 2 different fins on either. The fins come with the missile in its casket from Raytheon. I figured the same thing Seto when I saw it back in 2009 when I first saw Zero. That the original model they used for the CG had been a training 120. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed it. After being around these missiles for so long the first thing I noticed when I watched it (to me glaring) were the CATM-120 markings.

This is the AIM-9X followed by the AIM-9B,D,C and the current CATM-9L.

Edited August 5, 2015 by grigolosi

[grigolosi]

In regards to Hikaru's VF-1S. I know it is still the same aircraft but like Seto asked, how much of it is still part of the original frame. I have seen 2 different F-16's spliced together to make a flyable bird. The Depot at Hill AFB had an Egyptian F-16 they were putting back togetherafter it had been wrecked. They took the forward fuselage of a USN F-16C and sliced it to the aft frame of the Egyptian bird. I wouldn't doubt they did this in the case of Hikaru's bird to replace the areas of the frame that needed it. But the BuNo does stay the same. The numbers stays with the frame even if is written off completely and it is removed from service.

[Valkyrie Driver]

So I was over in the Macross Delta thread, and it was mentioned that Macross 7 had two love triangles, but I'm drawing a blank. Can someone tell me what they are?

[VF5SS]

So I was over in the Macross Delta thread, and it was mentioned that Macross 7 had two love triangles, but I'm drawing a blank. Can someone tell me what they are?

"A woman's choice is never easy."

Edited August 8, 2015 by VF5SS

[Tochiro]

The obvious one

Basara-Mylene-Gamlin

The less obvious one

Basara-Sybil-Gigil

Edited August 8, 2015 by Tochiro